• [00:03:38] * prpplague tries to get ready for the upcoming 90 hour work weeks that are soon to follow
  • [00:04:59] <mranostay> prpplague: blech you are insane
  • [00:05:09] <mranostay> ok http://beagleborad.org/ back up..
  • [00:05:26] <prpplague> dandy
  • [00:05:42] <prpplague> you are suppose to make his nose purple
  • [00:06:25] <mranostay> __av500__: you haven't registered minnow borat yet
  • [00:08:43] <prpplague> mranostay: need a mermaid with a beard
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  • [00:16:01] * zz_ka6sox-away is now known as ka6sox
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  • [00:30:43] <vvu> any idea if i can flash a microSD ubuntu to eMMC directly or there will be any problems ?
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  • [00:52:14] <Tenkawa> Any of you running slackware on a bbb?
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  • [01:16:17] <mrpacket_> https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/1262955_10151824839622661_610238853_o.jpg?
  • [01:17:23] <mrpacket_> tiny wifi for the bbb
  • [01:17:23] <mrpacket_> lets see if it works
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  • [01:35:08] <LeslieLi> Hi guys, where can I find the latest kernel source code of beagle? I'm looking for the driver for mt9d112 camera
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  • [01:46:08] <magyarm> LeslieLi the most up to date sources are on github: https://github.com/beagleboard/kernel/tree/3.8 you can use the README instructions to make the kernel, or Robert Nelson's instructions here: http://eewiki.net/display/linuxonarm/BeagleBone
  • [01:47:07] <magyarm> LeslieLi: no promises the driver you want is in there though. If you can find the driver online try patching it into the kernel you make?
  • [01:47:22] <LeslieLi> magyarm:thanks a lot for your information
  • [01:47:43] <LeslieLi> I have already write one to my project board(leopard board dm368)
  • [01:48:06] <LeslieLi> but the image quality is very bad, so I'm looking for other driver for a reference
  • [01:49:14] <magyarm> ah, sorry can't help you on that one. Never used that camera. Best of luck
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  • [01:50:28] <Joaquin> has someone any information of the use of XBEE in the BBB?
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  • [01:52:31] <Joaquin> hi anyone have some help for using the XBEE in the BBB?
  • [01:56:26] <mranostay> measles case in Portland?
  • [01:56:32] <mranostay> what is this the third world?/
  • [01:58:02] <magyarm> Joaquin: what are you trying to do? access it over spi/i2c/uart? or do you have a usb device you want to plug in?
  • [01:59:50] <Joaquin> magyarm I want to receive information throw an Xbee pro adapter, Connecting from uart
  • [02:11:23] <magyarm> Joaquin: alrighty, now we can do something for you:P Have you set up UART on the bone, and connected the adapter?
  • [02:12:07] <magyarm> so, have you configured a device tree overlay for the uart pins that you want?
  • [02:13:19] <Joaquin> I'haven't doen anything yet, I receive the bbb and was searching for some advice to connect the Xbee
  • [02:13:28] <mranostay> uart is uart
  • [02:14:24] <mranostay> emeb_mac: so what are these LUT chains?
  • [02:14:38] <emeb_mac> mranostay: huh?
  • [02:15:36] <mranostay> emeb_mac: is it a FPGA interconnect thing?
  • [02:16:03] <emeb_mac> mranostay: which LUT chains? Where?
  • [02:16:14] * emeb_mac doesn't work well w/o context.
  • [02:18:10] <magyarm> Joaquin: ah, ok. So simple answer as mranostay put it, uart is uart. Once you hook up the Xbee's uart to the *bone's you can access it through a tty*
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  • [02:18:23] <magyarm> on the beaglebone
  • [02:19:11] <mranostay> http://www.mygizmos.org/ols/Logic-Sniffer-FPGA-Spec.pdf
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  • [02:21:48] <m_billybob> so looks like not only has the groups turned into a Linux support group, but its turned into a component support group.
  • [02:21:53] * m_billybob shakes head
  • [02:22:55] <cahewson> development box is debian and getting started docs are for windows. can I develope in c on debian for bbb?
  • [02:22:57] <emeb_mac> mranostay: FPGA LUTs in the fabric? Yeah - that's just the low-level structure of the FPGA logic.
  • [02:23:26] <emeb_mac> input bits = addresses into the LUT - output bits are logical combinations which depend on the LUT contents.
  • [02:23:32] <m_billybob> cahewson you can develope in C in windows if yo uwant . . but yes that is correct. you need a cross compile toolchain
  • [02:24:07] * Joaquin (be6018b7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.190.96.24.183) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  • [02:26:43] <magyarm> well heres a linux question for you all, I noticing a strange behaviour with my beaglebone black. It seems to keep disconnecting the usb, then refusing an address with error -32, then accepts one a few digits greater. any thoughts on what to look at to solve this?
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  • [02:28:08] <magyarm> for reference, the white sitting right beside it does not show this behavior. I was thinking it was a problem with having both *bones connected at the same time, so I've been thinking of writing a udev rule just for the black. Have it simply identify the usb-ether address and then run ifconfig for it
  • [02:29:32] <magyarm> so, secondary question, how do you guys handle having multiple *bones connected at once?
  • [02:30:12] <m_billybob> a bit more detail required on second question
  • [02:30:30] <m_billybob> use ethernet and a sswitch ?
  • [02:30:52] <m_billybob> not even going ot touch your first question
  • [02:31:33] <magyarm> m_billybob: I'm just trying to have both *bones hooked up on usb to a hub. too lazy to carry switch + all the wires :P
  • [02:31:55] <magyarm> I don't blame you. Ive been scratching my head most of tonight on question 1
  • [02:32:19] <m_billybob> you'd need to configure the dhcp server that runs on the bbb got g_ether/g_multi
  • [02:32:49] <m_billybob> got == for actually
  • [02:33:06] <m_billybob> for angstrom i have no idea which dhcp server is used.
  • [02:33:45] <m_billybob> and yeah that'll turn into a hair mes in a hurry, probably best to use static ips for each bbb
  • [02:33:54] <magyarm> I've been manually assigning ip's with ifconfig usb0 192.168.42.x, and have g_ether loaded at boot
  • [02:34:33] <m_billybob> that question would probably be best asked / answered on the beaglbone google groups
  • [02:34:41] <magyarm> each bone gets a different x, then have scripts on host for each one to set usb0, or usb1 and set up IP masquarade
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  • [02:35:06] <m_billybob> thing is each bbb runs its own dhcp server, so that can turn "bad" pretty quick
  • [02:35:33] <magyarm> is that by default in angstrom?
  • [02:35:34] <m_billybob> might be better to run static ips all around and disable the dhcp server on one or both
  • [02:35:43] <m_billybob> yeah for the usb network interface
  • [02:35:48] <m_billybob> by default
  • [02:37:12] <mranostay> emeb_mac: each i/o is routed a LUT address?
  • [02:37:18] <m_billybob> basicaly, and do keep in mind i dont run angstrom on my own bbbs, the BBB runs a dhcp server to pick up 192.168.7.2 as an IP for its self, and sets 192.168.7.1 to the host. with a limited dhcp range of two ips. which i just described
  • [02:38:06] <magyarm> I'm not running dhcp on either bone. Couldn't remember if it was enabled by default in arch linux. thankfully its not
  • [02:38:40] <magyarm> no problem. I couldn't wrap my head around bitbake for angstrom, so went with what I knew, package builds in arch
  • [02:38:50] <m_billybob> I couldnt say then i dont know much of anything about arch. I run debian
  • [02:39:21] <magyarm> thank you for giving me ideas though! It's something to look at for a solution
  • [02:39:32] <m_billybob> im too old and set in my ways to start chasing "new" distro
  • [02:39:48] <emeb_mac> mranostay: no - those LUTs are in the FPGA internal fabric. The connections to the I/O are established separately through the routing resources.
  • [02:39:55] <m_billybob> whats your your problem though ? are you gettign network collisions ?
  • [02:40:40] <emeb_mac> some I/O may connect to the LUTs, most LUTs connect to other internal sources / loads.
  • [02:40:57] <magyarm> no, it's just the black doesn't present the usb-ethernet interface all the time, or even accept a usb address
  • [02:41:36] <magyarm> it will accept an address, then disconnect, reget a few with error code -32, then accept one a few addresses higher
  • [02:41:44] <m_billybob> magyarm yeah the only real way i can see you solving that issue is using an ethernet switch, and the eth ports on the bbb.
  • [02:41:45] <magyarm> reject*
  • [02:42:10] <m_billybob> probably not what you wantto hear, but ive fooled aroudn withthe g_ether gadget stuff, and its not reall yever worked rigth for me
  • [02:42:22] <magyarm> bugger, I was thinking that, but I'm lazy and don't want to carry around all that mess :P
  • [02:42:50] <m_billybob> well maybe you can get it to work good idk, but i futz aroudn with it for a couple days and called no joy
  • [02:42:52] <magyarm> nope, your right. didn't want to hear that... but good to know
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  • [02:43:17] <m_billybob> I started losing connections between just one and my host, and would have to ping the BBB from the host to get the USB net workign again
  • [02:43:19] <magyarm> if I hit on something, I'll ping you
  • [02:43:39] <magyarm> was it disabling the ethernet gadget?
  • [02:43:42] <m_billybob> sounds good :)
  • [02:44:32] <m_billybob> well id lose connection . like after a little while connected, i couldnt even ping my host fro mthe bbb ( windows + RNDIS ), so in order to reconnect id have toping the BBB from the host
  • [02:44:45] <m_billybob> could even be a windows RNDIS issue im not sure
  • [02:45:06] <m_billybob> windows isnt exactly know for having 100% solid USB drivers always
  • [02:45:10] <m_billybob> known*
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  • [02:45:32] <m_billybob> ive read that RNDIS on windows can be flaky
  • [02:45:40] <m_billybob> so yeah idk
  • [02:46:14] <KJH> Is there, or is there not, a simple way to get device mapping working on BBB? I need to have an encrypted partition on it.
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  • [03:57:45] <fdfd> hello
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  • [05:00:08] <mranostay> mrpackethead: kiwi dude
  • [05:00:20] <mrpackethead> mranostay: oracle dude
  • [05:00:34] <mrpackethead> all americans are the enemy from now utill end of racing
  • [05:00:58] <mranostay> oracle?
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  • [05:22:10] <emeb_mac> is this a sailing thing?
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  • [06:12:07] <ka6sox> whats sailing?
  • [06:12:15] <ka6sox> oh where they put up rags on sticks?
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  • [07:29:21] <krish> hi
  • [07:29:31] <krish> i have a question
  • [07:29:37] <krish> anyone there ?
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  • [07:30:07] <Guest87189> hey
  • [07:30:17] <Guest87189> anyone ?
  • [07:30:23] <LetoThe2nd> just ask. i f somebody knows, you get an answer. if you don't get an answer, nobody knops.
  • [07:30:44] <Guest87189> i want to boot ubuntu in my beagleboard-xM
  • [07:31:01] <Guest87189> i installed the kernel image on my sdcard
  • [07:31:23] <Guest87189> and downloaded the ubuntu 12.10 on my beagleboard using ethernet
  • [07:31:33] <Guest87189> but m unable to see it in GUI form
  • [07:31:44] <Guest87189> can anyone help me with this ????
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  • [07:33:46] <ka6sox> no, because you won't be patient enough for an answer...
  • [07:35:13] <dm8tbr> :]
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  • [07:55:24] <smith_engr> If i wanted to start playing with my bbb should I start with the base distro or spend some time moving another onto it?
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  • [08:03:49] <SysEngr> Moving from using debian/arch/ubuntu for desktop development what distro would you recommend for the BBB?
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  • [08:06:10] <koen> SysEngr: for running on your workstation or on the bbb?
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  • [08:06:19] <kuku> hi
  • [08:06:22] <SysEngr> on the bbb
  • [08:06:28] <SysEngr> i usually run those 3 on workstations
  • [08:06:54] <kuku> m unable to view my ubuntu GUI on beagleboard-xM
  • [08:06:56] <kuku> help me pls
  • [08:07:06] <koen> SysEngr: I'd recommend using the distro that comes with the BBB, that still has the best hw support
  • [08:07:21] <koen> kuku: try asking on the ubuntu channels
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  • [08:08:00] <kuku> but m trying ubuntu on beagle board, so i think it will be the question of this channel
  • [08:08:32] <koen> ubuntu is not supported by beagleboard.org nor circuitco
  • [08:08:45] <koen> nor is the beaglebone supported by ubuntu
  • [08:08:54] <koen> so you'd have to figure it out yourself
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  • [08:11:35] <SysEngr> Koen: dumb question here. What is the correct cmd to reference a users name at the begining of a statement.
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  • [08:17:18] <koen> SysEngr: I don't get your question, could you rephrase?
  • [08:18:00] <SysEngr> in IRC you are formally replying to me by preceding your statement with my username 'SysEngr:....'
  • [08:18:14] <SysEngr> What command does that
  • [08:18:40] <koen> dunno, I just type it :)
  • [08:18:41] <dm8tbr> most irc clients do that by tab-complete
  • [08:18:54] <SysEngr> koen: gotcha
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  • [08:19:42] <SysEngr> New to IRC so just trying to grasp quickly the commands and etiquette.
  • [08:20:30] <dm8tbr> :)
  • [08:20:43] * jpirko (jirka@nat/redhat/x-cfgphwwbnqxlitrc) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
  • [08:20:46] <dm8tbr> a good read once in a while:
  • [08:21:04] <dm8tbr> http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
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  • [08:22:17] <SysEngr> thanks
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  • [08:26:37] <kuku> hi
  • [08:26:38] <kuku> hi
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  • [08:56:55] <av500> koen: for a dual Y drive, you'll need to tension the belts axactly the same no? in order to get the same effective number of teeth on both sides
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  • [09:03:23] <koen> av500: correct
  • [09:03:45] <av500> koen: their wiki does not mention that :)
  • [09:03:57] <koen> the belts don't really stretch, so the "exactly" is pretty easy to do
  • [09:04:03] <av500> ah
  • [09:04:12] <av500> thought they were rubbery :)
  • [09:04:17] <av500> but then, thats not good
  • [09:04:20] <koen> and you can cheat by treating it as an instrument
  • [09:04:39] <koen> and tune the sound coming of the belts :)
  • [09:04:44] <av500> right
  • [09:05:06] <av500> I'll put some belts on my bass next
  • [09:05:18] <das> hehe today's xkcd: "why aren't economists rich ?"
  • [09:19:04] <av500> because they know too much
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  • [09:40:02] <Anguel> Hi! I am a bit confused. Does the Angstrom BBB image make use of the BBB FPU? On the Ubuntu images I see they are armhf but I do not see any info for the Angstrom :-(
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  • [09:44:30] <koen> Anguel: angstrom uses for the VFP and NEON units where possible
  • [09:44:40] <koen> Anguel: ubuntu uses only vfp by default
  • [09:45:00] * LaXiS96 (~LaXiS96@88-149-249-233.v4.ngi.it) has joined #beagle
  • [09:45:26] <LaXiS96> Hi there
  • [09:47:50] <Anguel> koen: thank you! I also downloaded the angstrom cross toolchain but was confused because it says arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi, I thought it should be arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabihf to support hard floats
  • [09:49:02] <LaXiS96> Anguel: AFAIK compilers do not put float references after the abi
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  • [09:49:23] <LaXiS96> Anguel: in their names, i mean
  • [09:50:09] <LaXiS96> Oooh God maybe I finally found the right way to enable I2C1 on the Black w/ 3.8.13 kernel
  • [09:50:16] <koen> Anguel: there's more than one ABI that uses the hw floatingpoint units
  • [09:50:38] <koen> Anguel: in the v2012.12 release angstrom uses softfp, which is compatible with everything else
  • [09:50:48] <koen> Anguel: ubuntu uses hardfp, which is incompatible with everything
  • [09:51:02] <koen> there's no real life performance difference between the 2 ABIs
  • [09:51:35] <koen> ignoring the fact that ubuntu doesn't enable NEON by default
  • [09:52:21] <Anguel> sorry for my confusion. I think I just need to have floating point math in hw because I know from MCUs that if you do it in sw they are compiled to many instructions instead of a few
  • [09:52:36] <av500> no
  • [09:52:45] <av500> softfp also uses the float units
  • [09:52:50] <av500> its just a different ABI
  • [09:53:27] <LaXiS96> Did you know that there are three types of float implelentation?
  • [09:53:49] <av500> slow, fast and correct?
  • [09:53:54] <Anguel> I see, I tried to understand what ABi practically means but I still don't understand it somehow
  • [09:54:10] <LetoThe2nd> av500: he said "implementations", not wishes.
  • [09:54:38] <av500> Anguel: its about where you put the values you pass to a function
  • [09:54:57] <Anguel> so soft = correct ? :-)
  • [09:55:01] <av500> no
  • [09:55:10] <av500> there is soft soft
  • [09:55:11] <LaXiS96> It all depends on the ARM core capabilties, obviously
  • [09:55:16] <av500> and soft hard
  • [09:55:18] <av500> and hard
  • [09:55:30] <LaXiS96> Yep, av500 is correct, that was what I meant
  • [09:55:49] <av500> soft soft and soft hard share the ABI
  • [09:56:11] <LaXiS96> One is fully sw emulated, one is an in-between, the other is fully dependent on hardware
  • [09:56:30] <koen> there are 3 popular ABIs for arm: soft, softfp, hardfp
  • [09:56:39] <koen> the 'fp' ones can use the hardware FP units
  • [09:56:46] <Anguel> and I thought that only ubuntu uses the FPU because it is armhf - what a confucion
  • [09:56:48] <LaXiS96> koen, indeed
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  • [09:57:13] <koen> and I say 'can' and not 'will', since it's possible to force it to not use it
  • [09:57:16] <koen> or partially
  • [09:57:25] <koen> e.g. only 16 registers for vfp
  • [09:57:48] <koen> like ubuntu forces NEON to off to make it run on marvell chips without NEON
  • [09:58:15] <Anguel> so it looks like angstrom is still the best for the BBB
  • [09:58:22] <koen> executive summary: don't believe what you read on phoronix
  • [09:58:40] <av500> in short: don't phoronix
  • [09:59:06] <vmayoral> hi everybody
  • [09:59:11] <koen> hey vmayoral
  • [09:59:47] <LaXiS96> Anguel: not really...
  • [10:00:00] <Anguel> :-)
  • [10:00:01] * fzombie (~gplgeek@pdpc/supporter/student/GPLGeek) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  • [10:00:47] <Anguel> I come from the MCU world and looks like I have to learn a lot about Linux
  • [10:01:09] <koen> it's all relative
  • [10:01:14] <Anguel> soft soft, hard soft :-)
  • [10:01:16] <LaXiS96> Yeeeah! Did it! Just loading the BB-I2C1 dtbo made the missing i2c device file appear!
  • [10:01:17] <koen> angstrom has the best support for the hardware on the bone
  • [10:01:36] <koen> but thanks to TI being so grossly incompetent "best" doesn't mean what you think it means
  • [10:01:53] <LaXiS96> koen: RobertCNelson is working hard to complete support
  • [10:02:08] <LaXiS96> koen: and he's not that far
  • [10:02:19] <Anguel> robert is doing the kernel or only the debian-based?
  • [10:02:21] <koen> LaXiS96: Robert integrates patches from other trees
  • [10:02:48] <koen> LaXiS96: and robert uses https://github.com/beagleboard/kernel/tree/3.8
  • [10:03:04] <koen> LaXiS96: so you get the same kernel in roberts builds and angstrom builds
  • [10:03:12] <mrpackethead> koen: really. what does'nt work under debian?
  • [10:03:18] <LaXiS96> koen: wtf then... didn't know this
  • [10:03:30] <mrpackethead> specificllly what doe'snt work that does work on angstrom
  • [10:03:46] <koen> mrpackethead: any software created after the last debian release, so that's 2005?
  • [10:04:04] <mrpackethead> lol.
  • [10:04:20] <koen> mrpackethead: but more seriously, if I download debian from debian.org nothing works
  • [10:04:20] <mrpackethead> so, the stuff we wrote last week, doesnt work?
  • [10:04:23] <koen> since it won't even boot
  • [10:04:31] <Anguel> so i will probably start with angstrom to be on the safe and fast side :-)
  • [10:04:45] <mrpackethead> koen: so use Robert's debian!
  • [10:04:52] <mrpackethead> or is that not debian?
  • [10:05:12] <koen> not according to the debian terms of use
  • [10:05:40] <LaXiS96> Anguel: don't worry about that... I, as a linux experienced user, switched to Ubuntu after using Angstrom for 2 hours
  • [10:06:10] <LaXiS96> Anguel: mostly because of the systemd init...
  • [10:06:13] <mrpackethead> Anguel: Robert's debian liek builds work very well
  • [10:06:22] <mrpackethead> I have several hundred BBB's running it
  • [10:06:25] <mrpackethead> withotu issue
  • [10:06:36] <mrpackethead> doing real work
  • [10:06:42] <mrpackethead> just saying.
  • [10:07:08] <mrpackethead> but use what works for you
  • [10:07:35] <Anguel> so what is the advantage of using angstrom on BBB? does it boot faster?
  • [10:07:48] <av500> it blinks the cursor faster
  • [10:07:54] <Anguel> :-)
  • [10:07:57] <mrpackethead> Anguel: i've asked that question a hudnred tiems
  • [10:08:16] <av500> mrpackethead: see, with ubuntu you could have asked only fifty times
  • [10:08:37] <Anguel> well, koen said it has VFP + NEON, or isn't that noticable at all
  • [10:08:57] <av500> it depends
  • [10:09:10] <av500> on what SW you run
  • [10:10:57] <Anguel> ok, i need Qt (will run it on a 4" touch display cap) + some USB + some TCP/IP
  • [10:11:23] <Anguel> and maybe I am going to show some graphs, thought of using QWT
  • [10:11:33] <av500> it will depend
  • [10:11:43] <av500> you can go a long way without float
  • [10:13:36] <Anguel> i see that the angstrom cross tollchain is pretty old, March 2011 and it has qt 4.6
  • [10:13:55] <Anguel> is it still ok to use?
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  • [10:15:27] <Anguel> some people seem to download it and then compile the newer Qt versions if I remember correctly
  • [10:15:38] * koen looks at http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/toolchains
  • [10:15:43] <koen> 29-May-2013
  • [10:16:29] <Anguel> I saw that one but was not sure if it is for the BBB, also Qt was missing
  • [10:16:59] <Anguel> can I just add latest Qt for that?
  • [10:28:38] * mythos (~mythos@unaffiliated/mythos) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  • [10:29:34] <LaXiS96> Anguel: you can surely install it with the package manager or by simply compiling it
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  • [10:31:05] <Anguel> LaXiS96: Can I install a cross toolchain package using the package manager?
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  • [10:32:25] <LaXiS96> Anguel: you mean on a PC or on the BBB?
  • [10:34:37] <Anguel> LaXiS96: I was talking about download the latest Angstrom cross toolchain to my Ubuntu Host. Now that toolchain does not have Qt so I will have to add it somehow to the host in order to compile against its libraries.
  • [10:35:53] <LaXiS96> Anguel: If you need Qt on the BBB, why not just compile it directly on the BBB?
  • [10:36:28] <Anguel> I want to use Qt Creator on my PC, compile there and just download to the BBB
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  • [10:36:52] <Anguel> there is a video by derek molloy on youtube describing that
  • [10:37:47] <Anguel> but he works with a very old Angstrom cross toolchain and seems to compile against Qt 4.6 which is very old
  • [10:41:07] <LaXiS96> Sorry but in this case I can't help you. I'm not into Qt...
  • [10:43:01] <Anguel> no problem, I will look further :-)
  • [10:50:13] <dostoyevsky> This might be a dumb question but the BBB documentation keeps mentioning PINS... what can I use these for? I thought these might be for harddisks etc :)
  • [10:52:33] * stahl (~stahl@213.55.184.212) has joined #beaglebone
  • [10:52:50] <SpeedEvil> pins are connectors to the outside world - actual physical pins.
  • [10:53:02] <SpeedEvil> These can be used to interconnect to sensors or actuators.
  • [10:53:24] <SpeedEvil> Solenoids, light sensors, gimbal-mounted AK47s or flamethrowers.
  • [10:53:57] * mrpackethead (~mrpacketh@147.200.109.203.static.cust.vf.net.nz) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [10:54:25] <dostoyevsky> SpeedEvil: You forgot dildos
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  • [11:17:50] <LaXiS96> dostoyevsky: PINS is the phisical pin on the AM3359 package, referenced by a row letter and column number
  • [11:18:08] <LaXiS96> *physical, anyway
  • [11:18:34] <LaXiS96> It's not something you need in the software land
  • [11:18:57] <koen> balls might be a better word, since it's a BGA
  • [11:19:26] <philenotfound> koen: except in irc maybe
  • [11:22:13] <koen> right
  • [11:22:22] <koen> as evidenced by the dildo comment above :)
  • [11:23:18] <Anguel> do you now if angstrom or ubunu support any GPU acceleration? or is this only supported when using the TI SDK?
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  • [11:25:13] <koen> there is no support for the GPU with using 3.8 or newer kernels
  • [11:25:13] * vmayoral (~vmayoral@87.217.199.0) Quit (Quit: vmayoral)
  • [11:25:21] * dk-_ is now known as dk-
  • [11:25:44] <dostoyevsky> wget http://archlinuxarm.org/os/omap/BeagleBone-bootloader.tar.gz -> 404 Not Found :-(
  • [11:25:48] * tasslehoff (~tasslehof@77.40.182.98) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0)
  • [11:26:54] <Anguel> koen: interesting, and what is the reason?
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  • [11:30:50] <LaXiS96> Anguel: the SGX is not supported yet because developers are working on getting it to work.
  • [11:31:52] <Anguel> I see, I thought the reason was that TI was using older kernels
  • [11:32:10] <LaXiS96> koen: Let it be BGA or LGA, it will always be some kind of physical "pin"
  • [11:32:45] * froggyman (~froggyman@c58-107-240-32.mirnd3.nsw.optusnet.com.au) has joined #beagle
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  • [11:33:10] <koen> LaXiS96: TI tends to change the word for it, in OMAP3 times it was 'ball', in am335x times it's 'PIN'
  • [11:33:21] <koen> consistency is not easily found in TI docs
  • [11:33:55] <koen> as evidenced by the inability to use fortran numbering consistenly in TRMs
  • [11:34:24] <LaXiS96> koen: I think it's difficult to maintain consistency on a 5000-page datasheets...
  • [11:36:40] <koen> I'd think that "start counting at 0" wouldn't be that hard to be consistent with
  • [11:37:23] <koen> for the same IP blocks in the chip
  • [11:37:46] <koen> so i2c1 is i2c2 in the trm but i2c1 in linux
  • [11:38:00] <koen> unless you use omap4, then it's i2c1 everywhere
  • [11:41:07] <LaXiS96> Wow, it's the issue I had recently on the BBB... Well now it's just a bit ok since I2C0 is /dev/i2c-0, I2C2 is /dev/i2c-1 and I2C1 is (if enabled with a DTO) /dev/i2c-2...)
  • [11:41:30] <Anguel> these are small concerns compared to TIs cortex-m. Some manager decided to cancel all cortex-m3 before TI had a production ready cortex-m4. customers were going crazy.
  • [11:41:33] <LaXiS96> For "just a bit ok" i mean that it works but it does not make sense
  • [11:45:08] <koen> LaXiS96: right, that's the additional problem when using DT: sequention numbering of busses based on when you instatiate them
  • [11:45:36] <LaXiS96> Indeed
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  • [11:54:25] <SpeedEvil> LaXiS96: datasheets are fun.
  • [11:54:42] <LaXiS96> SpeedEvil: you said it.
  • [11:54:48] <SpeedEvil> LaXiS96: Somewhere i've gotten about ten variants of the 3610 (?) datasheet.
  • [11:55:02] * Criztian (~criztian@cust.static.46-14-80-206.swisscomdata.ch) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  • [11:55:15] <SpeedEvil> All of them have subtle differences - and if you want to know about all of the details of the USB peripheral - you need to read them all
  • [11:55:28] <SpeedEvil> As information appears or dissapears seemingly at random.
  • [11:55:34] <LaXiS96> LOL
  • [11:56:09] * SpeedEvil was involved in trying to get USB host working on the n900 (successfully through mostly the effort of others) despite nokia saying it couldn't work.
  • [11:56:43] <av500> and it saved the N900! :)
  • [11:56:57] <SpeedEvil> :/
  • [11:57:02] * SpeedEvil looks at his n950.
  • [11:57:08] <dm8tbr> well TI was famous for that
  • [11:57:13] <dm8tbr> and still is
  • [11:57:20] * SpeedEvil looks at his Jolla device.
  • [11:57:21] <dm8tbr> just not in the mobile SoC business
  • [11:57:25] * av500 looks at his n950
  • [11:57:36] * dm8tbr looks at two N950 on his desk
  • [11:57:50] * av500 looks at $RANDOMSUPERAWESOME
  • [11:57:59] <dm8tbr> $secretstuff
  • [11:58:07] <av500> $NSA
  • [11:58:44] <SpeedEvil> I think I possibly have the most open phone.
  • [11:58:49] <SpeedEvil> the openmoko GTA01.
  • [11:59:10] <SpeedEvil> Circuit diagrams, leaked documents on the mobile phone part, no GPU blobs.
  • [11:59:33] * tasslehoff (~tasslehof@77.40.182.98) has joined #beagle
  • [11:59:44] <ynezz> and you can even make a phone calls!
  • [11:59:47] * SpeedEvil sighs at openmokos screwups.
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  • [12:00:10] <dm8tbr> SpeedEvil: but according to doc they are baaaaaack and will run maemo5!
  • [12:00:21] <SpeedEvil> err - no.
  • [12:00:28] <SpeedEvil> GTA04 has _nothing_ to do with openmok
  • [12:00:43] <norbi> hi guys, i try to open /sys/class/leds/beaglebone:green:usr3/brightness file from a c++ application, but it cant open it, it needs some special rights or something since it gives me error?
  • [12:01:14] <m_billybob> norbi, really ?!
  • [12:01:19] <norbi> this is the code: http://pastebin.com/RCWj3cFy
  • [12:01:29] <norbi> m_billybob: ... yea really, im that noob
  • [12:01:37] <m_billybob> norbi you are away of linux file / folder permissions?
  • [12:01:42] <m_billybob> aware*
  • [12:01:53] <norbi> m_billybob: somehow
  • [12:01:54] <av500> hint: strerror()
  • [12:02:10] <norbi> av500: thx
  • [12:02:21] <ynezz> or don't asign, but compare :p
  • [12:02:27] <ynezz> =NULL vs ==NULL
  • [12:02:33] <ynezz> small diff, big impact...
  • [12:04:53] <dostoyevsky> Has anyone used the A5 and wasn't able to boot archlinux-arch from SD card?
  • [12:04:55] <norbi> ynezz: lol, true
  • [12:04:59] <norbi> ynezz: omg :P
  • [12:05:08] <ynezz> ansi style errors
  • [12:05:38] <dm8tbr> what's an A5?
  • [12:05:41] <dostoyevsky> I can boot the eMMC standard linux but when I put in the SD card, nothing his happening
  • [12:05:48] * Gandhi (c883c71c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.200.131.199.28) has joined #beagle
  • [12:06:00] <av500> hold the boot button
  • [12:06:01] <dostoyevsky> http://circuitco.com/support/index.php?title=BeagleBone#Revision_A5
  • [12:06:05] <av500> during boot
  • [12:06:08] <ynezz> norbi: and I would slap your indent manager with a large trout also
  • [12:06:18] <dostoyevsky> av500: boot button?
  • [12:06:27] <Gandhi> can I connect a geaglebone black to a DVI-D imput monitor?
  • [12:06:32] <av500> booton so to say
  • [12:06:37] <av500> Gandhi: yes
  • [12:06:44] <norbi> ynezz: sry, i dont get what u mean
  • [12:06:53] <av500> your code looks like shit
  • [12:06:57] <norbi> ah
  • [12:06:57] <av500> is what he said
  • [12:07:08] <norbi> ah u meant my indent in the code
  • [12:07:08] <norbi> :D
  • [12:07:37] <av500> indent early, indent often
  • [12:07:37] <LaXiS96> In C is it better to use the FILE struct and fopen()/fclose() or fcntl with an int file descriptor and open()/close()?
  • [12:07:38] <norbi> but it doesnt look like that on my IDE
  • [12:07:49] <av500> LaXiS96: I prefer open
  • [12:07:53] * felipeal` (~user@177.17.117.52) Quit (Read error: No route to host)
  • [12:08:03] <av500> norbi: well, then dont use pastebin
  • [12:08:13] <av500> instead, send us plane tickets to sit next to you
  • [12:08:30] <LaXiS96> av500: Good.
  • [12:08:56] <norbi> av500: :D
  • [12:09:03] <norbi> av500: its friday?
  • [12:09:15] <dostoyevsky> Does the A5 support all kinds of SDHC cards? I have a SDHC, class 10... maybe that's the problem?
  • [12:09:15] <av500> using open/close you prevent the libc from messing it up, instead you can mess it up yourself
  • [12:09:16] <LaXiS96> 8-char tabs suck. Go for 4-char tabs.
  • [12:09:26] <norbi> btw errno gives me Success but still
  • [12:09:28] <av500> LaXiS96: go away
  • [12:09:34] <av500> dostoyevsky: no
  • [12:09:42] <av500> marketing numbers are not a problem
  • [12:09:51] <LaXiS96> av500: what?
  • [12:10:15] <norbi> nvm i figured out
  • [12:10:16] <av500> dostoyevsky: most likely the card is bad
  • [12:10:24] <av500> or rather badly written
  • [12:10:33] <av500> or the boot button is not held at boot time
  • [12:10:51] * Gandhi (c883c71c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.200.131.199.28) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  • [12:11:10] <LaXiS96> av500: What does that "go away" mean?
  • [12:11:19] <m_billybob> lol
  • [12:11:21] <av500> [14:09] <LaXiS96> 8-char tabs suck. Go for 4-char tabs.
  • [12:11:40] <LaXiS96> av500: So?
  • [12:13:41] <LaXiS96> (facepalm)
  • [12:14:07] <av500> that too
  • [12:15:29] <LaXiS96> av500: Are you still going on?
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  • [12:20:05] <dostoyevsky> av500: If I press down the boot button I see three of the four lights going on. But then it freezes... without the button I just see one light
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  • [12:21:22] <av500> and you cycle the power?
  • [12:21:32] <av500> boot button is only checked at power up
  • [12:21:37] <dostoyevsky> yes
  • [12:21:45] <av500> card can be bad
  • [12:21:47] <dostoyevsky> I hold the button and then switch it on
  • [12:21:52] <av500> ok
  • [12:21:57] <av500> what'S on the card?
  • [12:22:22] <dostoyevsky> /dev/sdb1 * 2048 133119 65536 e W95 FAT16 (LBA)
  • [12:22:29] <dostoyevsky> /dev/sdb2 133120 30881791 15374336 83 Linux
  • [12:22:36] <dostoyevsky> archilinux-arm standard image
  • [12:22:50] <av500> looks good
  • [12:23:02] * AndrevS (~andrevs@2001:980:55e0:1:225:b3ff:fec0:41e1) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  • [12:23:58] <dostoyevsky> But I had to create the ala image on an RPI, as I don't have mkfs.ext4 on my mac... will check the SDHC on my mac... now that I have an image
  • [12:24:28] <av500> content of the FAT partition
  • [12:25:05] <dostoyevsky> MLO u-boot.img uEnv.txt
  • [12:25:28] <dostoyevsky> ext4 has linux root filesystem
  • [12:25:43] <av500> content of uEnv.txt
  • [12:27:49] <dostoyevsky> av500: http://pastebin.com/Bu8C3sxG
  • [12:30:01] <av500> ok
  • [12:30:04] <av500> sorry, no idea
  • [12:30:13] <dostoyevsky> hmmm... no problem reading the sd card on my mac... hmmm
  • [12:30:14] <av500> card all the way in?
  • [12:30:17] * zigmoo (~textual@99-109-161-100.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  • [12:30:35] <dostoyevsky> av500: I think so, it clicks...
  • [12:31:13] <dostoyevsky> I'll get another SD card later, maybe it will work better
  • [12:31:48] <dostoyevsky> av500: Thanks for your help anyways
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  • [12:39:11] <gerod> hi
  • [12:39:26] <ant_work> av500: we have an usolicited heap of trafic in #yo**o originated by the now resident troll. Amazing how rapidly his knowledge has increased, up to the point of confusing everyone ("I have the same and it works"). What to do? He has already opened 20-30 bugs in a few days.
  • [12:39:40] <gerod> I have a question about GPIO at boot time
  • [12:41:20] <tasslehoff> koen: "There now is a sourceable script in ~/.oe/enviroment". Not with the latest angstrom-v2013.06-yocto1.4. Might wanna fix that message.
  • [12:41:55] <av500> ant_work: -EUSERTERMINATED?
  • [12:42:01] <av500> gerod: just ask
  • [12:42:04] <av500> dont ask to ask
  • [12:44:07] <gerod> when you boot the BBB
  • [12:44:35] <gerod> the level of GPIO is about 3 volts
  • [12:45:09] <gerod> I need to have them to 0 and then set to high level after boot
  • [12:46:48] * boris_ (~boris@CPE-124-184-170-158.lns17.cht.bigpond.net.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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  • [12:50:56] <norbi> guys, is there another easy way to access GPIO, pwm and such bside sysfs? i know about device tree structure, but i dont really understand what that overlay means, i need to write my own drivers and use them instead of the device tree struct or ?
  • [12:51:42] <gerod> av500: any idea?
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  • [12:52:55] <tasslehoff> koen: pull request sent
  • [12:55:20] <koen> tasslehoff: thanks!
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  • [13:00:29] <av500> gerod: you can pull them low in the 1st stage boot loader
  • [13:00:46] <av500> I guess by default they come up as highZ or input
  • [13:02:50] <das> damn I missed the 4/8 spaces tabs troll
  • [13:03:33] <gerod> 1st stage boot loader? sorry but i'm a new-nebie
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  • [13:05:45] <av500> MLO
  • [13:05:55] <av500> thats the earliest code under your control
  • [13:06:02] <av500> its built as part of uboot
  • [13:06:23] <Anguel> gerod: it probably depends on how critical it is to have the pins in the correct state at power on. if this is critical you probably need external hardware
  • [13:07:08] <das> didn't aholler make some boot charts ?
  • [13:07:19] <das> 2/3 weeks ago
  • [13:07:23] <av500> the charts dont set GPIOs
  • [13:07:30] <gerod> i want to set high a pin to enable all harware thatb the BBB will use
  • [13:07:54] <av500> are you sure the pin goes high after boot?
  • [13:07:59] <av500> and is not just pulled up?
  • [13:08:16] <av500> maybe a pulldown is all you need
  • [13:09:56] <gerod> [15:00] <av500> I guess by default they come up as highZ or input
  • [13:10:14] * lispghost (~tony@183.3.34.249) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  • [13:10:26] <av500> yes
  • [13:10:32] <av500> but no need to guess
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  • [13:10:39] <av500> its quite specified
  • [13:11:35] <gerod> av500: can you please me tell where to find this specifications
  • [13:12:43] * vmayoral (~vmayoral@87.217.199.0) Quit (Quit: vmayoral)
  • [13:12:50] <Anguel> gerod: see the CPU specs at TI
  • [13:12:52] <av500> in the am335x TRM
  • [13:13:39] <Anguel> does anyone know if the Angstrom online image builder at http://narcissus.angstrom-distribution.org/ can build for BBB?
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  • [13:22:29] <SE> Hello
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  • [13:29:58] <SE__> Hello,I have question need specific technical Engineer.
  • [13:31:40] <agmlego> Do not ask to ask, just ask.
  • [13:32:56] <SE__> About the association for BeagleBone black,what's the types of the association?
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  • [13:36:26] <agmlego> I am not sure what you mean by "association" in this context.
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  • [13:39:16] <SE__> it is the related parts with Development board.
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  • [13:43:35] <agmlego> Still not getting what you mean.
  • [13:43:50] <SpeedEvil> Do you mean schematic?
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  • [13:46:44] <agmlego> Or board layout file?
  • [13:46:49] <agmlego> Or cape design?
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  • [13:52:20] <gerod> av500: i'm trying a bit
  • [13:52:55] <gerod> but setting the output high with python i can't see anything changing
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  • [13:54:10] <gerod> av500: I want to try with echo but i dont remember correspondance between "P9_12" and GPIO number
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  • [14:03:52] <gerod> the with echo from shell everything is ok, byt with adafruit and python doesnt work
  • [14:04:30] <gerod> anybody with experience with GPIO Adafruit python library?
  • [14:08:02] <KotH> good afterJIHAD!
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  • [14:14:01] <norbi> hi guys, can you please tell me how can i install a complete webserver on angstrom? lighthttp, mysql and php?
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  • [14:35:50] <gerod> anybody with experience with GPIO Adafruit python library?
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  • [14:43:57] <m_billybob> KotH AfterWhichJIHAD ?
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  • [14:45:22] <KotH> AfterThePreviousJIHAD
  • [14:46:34] <m_billybob> heh
  • [14:47:36] <m_billybob> It is kind of amazing some of the people who get a BBB . . . sometimes I am wondering wtf they were thinking
  • [14:48:28] <KotH> why?
  • [14:48:31] <KotH> what did you see?
  • [14:49:45] <m_billybob> I see a lot of people who should own a MAC or a Windows PC, and should leave embedded system to the big dogs.
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  • [14:51:23] <KotH> why?
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  • [14:51:39] <malcom2073> BBB is kinda embedded systems for the small dogs.
  • [14:51:40] <m_billybob> some of the questions im seeing
  • [14:51:49] <m_billybob> apparently not
  • [14:52:10] <m_billybob> malcom2073, i get what you're saying and i agree
  • [14:52:16] <KotH> well.. you know that everyone started as a noob
  • [14:52:29] <m_billybob> KotH I *am* a noob
  • [14:52:34] <KotH> when i started with linux, i asked some pretty stupid questions
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  • [14:52:58] <m_billybob> well im an embedded linux newb
  • [14:53:20] <KotH> same here
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  • [14:53:49] <m_billybob> KotH did you start wit hthe white ? or one of the beagleboards ?
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  • [14:53:52] <KotH> just imagine, what kind of questions you'd ask if you didnt know computers as well as you do now, if you didnt know linux at all
  • [14:54:03] * Fuzai (~quassel@c-98-232-38-159.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) Quit (Client Quit)
  • [14:54:07] <KotH> i actually started with my own design based on an i.mx23 :)
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  • [14:54:28] <m_billybob> college project ?
  • [14:54:41] <KotH> i'm not mranostay ;)
  • [14:54:45] <m_billybob> heheh
  • [14:55:03] <m_billybob> well you dont have to be young to go back to school, but ok
  • [14:55:07] <KotH> nah, a customer wanted to have some special system, where the obvious solution was to use linux as OS
  • [14:55:31] <KotH> i am actually a student, but in psychology, not in CS or EE :)
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  • [14:55:49] <m_billybob> ug phycology
  • [14:55:57] <KotH> un-science ;)
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  • [14:57:01] <m_billybob> errr yeah i spelled that wrong lol
  • [14:57:05] <m_billybob> anyway
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  • [14:59:41] <mranostay> KotH: what is this?
  • [15:01:02] <KotH> mranostay: being you, it's probably a beer in your hand
  • [15:01:21] <mranostay> it is 8a
  • [15:01:46] <KotH> well, either you start early, or you havent finished yet
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  • [15:02:43] <m_billybob> ive been tying one on for like the last month myself
  • [15:02:53] <m_billybob> every night, well many
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  • [15:37:39] <Anguel> hm, the BBB FAQ says that the latest revision is A5C but my board says B4
  • [15:43:31] <KotH> anyone going to japan before ELCE? i need someone to get me one of these: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w06zvM2x_lw
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  • [15:46:44] <das> mmmh
  • [15:47:07] <das> colleague has a USB to UART chip that when connected draws as much power from ths USB as possible
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  • [15:47:21] <das> and disconnects other peripherals
  • [15:47:27] <das> seems fried to me ?
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  • [15:50:43] <KotH> either broken or not spec compliant
  • [15:50:52] <KotH> or the usb port is broken
  • [15:50:57] <KotH> or the usb hub
  • [15:51:02] <KotH> or anything usb related
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  • [15:51:36] <KotH> oh.. if he uses windows, then usb is in a broken state anyways
  • [15:51:51] <das> :)
  • [15:51:57] <das> he uses both windows and ubuntu
  • [15:52:02] <KotH> i'm not joking
  • [15:52:11] <das> tested on both with sortof the same result
  • [15:52:17] <KotH> it's a wonder that any usb device is working with windows at all
  • [15:52:25] <das> I told him his chip is friend
  • [15:52:32] <das> fried*
  • [15:52:51] <das> got something to read for me ?
  • [15:52:59] <m_billybob> das, this is a FTDI chip, or oneof the others ?
  • [15:53:15] <KotH> i developed a usb device stack a couple of years ago, and crashed windows 20-30 times a day (black screen, not even a BSOD) until i finally got fed up and continued with using linux as a host system
  • [15:53:31] <das> m_billybob: I'll ask the refenrence of the chip
  • [15:54:06] <m_billybob> das, I am just curious, because FTDI is my go to chip personally for uart <->USB
  • [15:54:42] <m_billybob> almost willing to bet its not an FTDI, but who knows
  • [15:54:50] * davest (Adium@nat/intel/x-khipcgupybapjkoi) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  • [15:55:02] <das> CP2103
  • [15:55:10] <m_billybob> so cypress
  • [15:55:48] <m_billybob> well that was a guess whcih i think is wrong
  • [15:56:05] <m_billybob> silicon labs
  • [15:56:26] <m_billybob> das, thanks for asking.
  • [15:56:44] <das> m_billybob: so you'll stick even more to FTDI now ? :D
  • [15:57:01] * SilicaGel Do Not Eat
  • [15:58:11] <m_billybob> das, IDK that chip is kind of interresting, has 4 GPIOs in addition
  • [15:58:19] <m_billybob> but yeah probably
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  • [15:59:31] <KotH> m_billybob: i would choose cypress over ftdi
  • [15:59:51] <KotH> m_billybob: ftdi are "cheap" but in both meanings of the word
  • [16:00:17] <das> otoh it's the first usb/uart chip I see with this behavior
  • [16:00:28] <m_billybob> ftdi has solid drivers
  • [16:00:33] <m_billybob> always.
  • [16:00:37] * rsalveti (~rsalveti@unaffiliated/rsalveti) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  • [16:00:42] <m_billybob> thats the main reason why i like ftdi
  • [16:01:30] <m_billybob> KotH, but for doing something other than uart to USB, yeah ive read some cypress stuff it pretty nice
  • [16:01:39] <m_billybob> it==is
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  • [16:02:23] <KotH> the ftdi drivers are quite good, that's true. especially compared to the other drivers that are usually used (like windows own usbser.sys), but the devices are not well designed
  • [16:02:30] <KotH> they lack a lot
  • [16:02:43] <KotH> but then, they do their job for 90% of the people
  • [16:03:17] <m_billybob> KotH, ok so im not exactly an EE what do you not like about them ?
  • [16:04:07] <m_billybob> and yes i do use windows for a lot of development and have also read widnows USB stack / drivers is piss poor for doign any decent USB development with
  • [16:04:12] <KotH> m_billybob: the ftdi are designs for the majority of people. if you use them to limits of what serial devices support, things stop working
  • [16:04:16] <KotH> m_billybob: or get extremely slow
  • [16:04:33] <KotH> things, people were used to do with "hardware" serial ports
  • [16:05:23] <m_billybob> ive not experienced that in windows with ftdi yet, but i havent exactly done an USB development yet
  • [16:05:33] * rsalveti (~rsalveti@unaffiliated/rsalveti) has joined #beagle
  • [16:05:50] <m_billybob> any . . .
  • [16:05:52] <KotH> as i said, it works for 90% of the people
  • [16:06:04] <m_billybob> so high baud rates ?
  • [16:06:07] <m_billybob> higher*
  • [16:06:11] <KotH> oh.. and never use ftdi chips for i2c or spi. just dont
  • [16:06:13] <m_billybob> say over 1Mbit ?
  • [16:06:29] <KotH> i think the max i've ever got with an ftdi was 3mbit/s
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  • [16:06:38] <KotH> reliably
  • [16:06:58] <m_billybob> ftdi we only use for uart here
  • [16:07:07] * stahl (~stahl@181-178.194-178.cust.bluewin.ch) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  • [16:07:17] <KotH> with rx and tx coupled together over an open collector driver and then onto a bidirectional 3.3V <-> 1.8V level shifter
  • [16:07:31] <KotH> i'm still surprised that thing ever worked :)
  • [16:07:35] <m_billybob> I think wulf my buddy likes other brands for SPI stuff, and I2C probably a mix between TI max, and hmm cant think of the other
  • [16:08:27] <m_billybob> im still learnign all of this and fro ma programmers perspective but hes been at EE for over 30 years
  • [16:08:58] <m_billybob> i havent done any I2C develement stuff period so far
  • [16:09:08] <m_billybob> but have done one project with SPI
  • [16:09:48] <KotH> oh, it's always the same with that kind of stuff, and i assume it has been the same for ever since the 4004 appeared: these things have silicon bugs. and you will stumble upon one when you are two days before a deadline
  • [16:10:09] * kraiskil (~kraiskil@a91-156-53-236.elisa-laajakaista.fi) has joined #beagle
  • [16:10:14] <KotH> so, if you wan to learn that kind of stuff, just use it :)
  • [16:10:46] <m_billybob> yeah we're just a couple of hobbyists in this regard, hopeign to eventualy make a few bucks selling an integrated hardware / software design.
  • [16:11:15] <m_billybob> so "deadline" doesnt really appl in our case
  • [16:11:21] * rotorgeek (~quassel@71-215-114-133.hlrn.qwest.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [16:12:28] <KotH> yeah, the deadline might not apply, but do not think that "professionals" have more or better skills than hobbyists
  • [16:12:32] <m_billybob> he gets paid to be a radio station engineer, and everything we do on the side is mad scientist sort of stuff :)
  • [16:12:41] <KotH> actually quite the contrary :-(
  • [16:13:41] <m_billybob> KotH not many EE's out there are goign to be better than him esppecially when it comes to analog, software whcih is me . . theres plenty better than I, but . . . i do ok
  • [16:14:44] <m_billybob> given enough time I feel there isnt anythign i can not figure out and do
  • [16:15:22] <KotH> i am still quite young, i have not seen much, but i have seen many programmers and lots of EEs
  • [16:15:49] <KotH> and i can tell you, that especially with programmers, the skills in the hobbyist are generally higher than those of professionals
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  • [16:16:11] <m_billybob> thats good to know, but at the same time, kind of sad.
  • [16:16:16] <KotH> it's very sad
  • [16:16:37] <KotH> but companies dont mind, i doubt most of the decision makers even understand what their programmers do
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  • [16:17:05] <KotH> heck, i've seen code that an first year programmer apprentice could do better
  • [16:17:10] <m_billybob> i blame java ;)
  • [16:17:32] <KotH> like a 200 loc ring buffer done by someone who did C for >15 years on microcontrollers
  • [16:17:50] <m_billybob> javascript im ok with meaning i dont think badly of it. java on the other hand . . .
  • [16:18:21] <KotH> i found 5 or so bugs within the first 5min looking at it. a friend whom i showed it found another 7 bugs at the first glance
  • [16:18:33] <m_billybob> hehe
  • [16:18:39] <KotH> it is _not_ a problem of the programming language
  • [16:18:46] <das> 200 lines for a ring buffer ? oO
  • [16:19:04] <m_billybob> well i mean more the way the common schools teach programmign using that language
  • [16:19:08] <KotH> it's a matter people teaching programming in a way where you are told that you do not need to understand what is going on, because the compiler/VM will magically take care of things
  • [16:19:34] <kraiskil> das, its the 12 bugs that bloat the code, I guess...
  • [16:19:47] <das> are they paid per loc ?
  • [16:19:58] <KotH> das: it gets better. when i fixed it, the rest of the system stopped working.
  • [16:20:05] <das> lol
  • [16:20:09] <m_billybob> ring buffers is somethign i need to work on myself
  • [16:20:12] <das> indian software ?
  • [16:20:28] <m_billybob> lol
  • [16:20:29] <KotH> das: it took me a while to figure out that the communication system relied on the ring buffer to lose a byte every now and then to properly work
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  • [16:20:49] <m_billybob> that is funny.
  • [16:20:58] <das> we've had something similar happen with our indian subcontractor
  • [16:21:03] <das> we fixed a communication API
  • [16:21:10] <das> and it broke the encryption
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  • [16:23:31] <KotH> m_billybob: i could tell you dozens of such storries
  • [16:23:47] <m_billybob> yeah sad thing is, ive heard many to go along with those
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  • [16:24:08] <m_billybob> read about many too
  • [16:24:08] <KotH> yeah..
  • [16:24:13] <KotH> daily wtf?
  • [16:24:14] <KotH> :)
  • [16:24:30] <m_billybob> the book dont recall the name, something like "how *NOT* to program type books
  • [16:24:41] <KotH> *g*
  • [16:25:07] <KotH> must know for anyone writing code: http://thedailywtf.com/
  • [16:25:23] <das> KotH: I knew this site before I even began coding :D
  • [16:25:43] <m_billybob> lol
  • [16:25:46] <m_billybob> foreach (var proc in procs)
  • [16:25:46] <m_billybob> {
  • [16:25:46] <m_billybob> proc.Kill();
  • [16:25:46] <m_billybob> }
  • [16:26:40] <m_billybob> i go go on all day just on the style not to mention the likely outcome of that code
  • [16:26:46] <m_billybob> i could go on all day*
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  • [16:29:25] <KotH> i had these kind of experiences as well... in a 10 men company: http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Coding-Practices-MUST-Be-Followed.aspx
  • [16:31:38] <das> KotH: last summer duing my internship I asked for coding rules and validation software, and was told "here we code without bugs"
  • [16:32:29] <KotH> lol
  • [16:32:47] <mranostay> ds2: sounds like a fun internship
  • [16:33:01] <mranostay> so you guys had no bug tracking system i'm sure
  • [16:33:08] <mranostay> or QA team
  • [16:33:15] <SilicaGel> i need to finish my damned pru debugger :(
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  • [16:33:26] <mranostay> SilicaGel: debugger?
  • [16:33:33] <KotH> das: in my current company, i review the coding guidelines every time i start a bigger project. and every time i remove another layer of cruft which i was not allowed to remove in my last review :)
  • [16:33:39] * zigmoo (~textual@c-50-130-43-186.hsd1.ms.comcast.net) has joined #beagle
  • [16:33:40] <SilicaGel> yeah i started working on a debugger a long time ago and never finished it
  • [16:33:50] <SilicaGel> for setting breakpoints, examining memory, the usual debugger sort of thing.
  • [16:33:55] <SilicaGel> i need to motivate up.
  • [16:34:08] <mranostay> heh before someone else beats you :P
  • [16:34:09] * hatguy (~hatguy@1.38.30.148) Quit (Disconnected by services)
  • [16:34:11] * mranostay whistles
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  • [16:34:21] <SilicaGel> well shit, if that's the case let's collaborate
  • [16:34:32] <SilicaGel> https://github.com/wz2b/prude
  • [16:35:13] * davest (~Adium@134.134.139.76) has joined #beagle
  • [16:35:47] <KotH> SilicaGel: why write yet another debugger?
  • [16:35:59] <m_billybob> lol
  • [16:36:00] <SilicaGel> What exists that I can just use?
  • [16:36:05] <das> KotH: are you MISRA/DO-xxx compliant ?
  • [16:36:06] <KotH> gdb?
  • [16:36:11] <KotH> das: no
  • [16:36:11] <m_billybob> KotH yeah that is pretty funny
  • [16:36:12] <SilicaGel> GDB can't debug the PRUSS
  • [16:36:23] <KotH> das: misra is nice, but restricts you an awfull lot
  • [16:36:29] <das> KotH: then what coding rules do you need on top of the kernl ones ? :D
  • [16:36:36] <das> no gotos -_-
  • [16:36:49] <KotH> das: it's like wrapping a razor blade in 20 layers of cloth, because you could cut yourself with it
  • [16:37:03] <das> but break; and continue; are allowed I think
  • [16:37:10] <das> -_-
  • [16:37:33] <KotH> SilicaGel: so ka.. so datta no ka....
  • [16:37:40] <SilicaGel> (?)
  • [16:37:50] <m_billybob> I think using break is bad practise too, in general, but all operators have their uses.
  • [16:37:57] <KotH> SilicaGel: that's the polite way of saying "you should learn japanese" ;)
  • [16:37:57] <mranostay> SilicaGel: oh wait debugger for the PRU itself?
  • [16:38:09] <SilicaGel> For the PRU itself, yes
  • [16:38:11] <mranostay> did that C compiler ever get released?
  • [16:38:15] <KotH> das: see, i work in a company that has been in existence for about 15 years
  • [16:38:19] <SilicaGel> I didn' tknow there seriously was a C compiler for it
  • [16:38:28] <SilicaGel> I heard a lot of people crying that they wanted one, but it never really made sense to me
  • [16:38:31] <KotH> das: it was an university spin off
  • [16:38:41] <KotH> das: people saw that they need to have guidelines and rules
  • [16:38:47] <das> KotH: it was my understanding that your fellow colleagues were reasonable
  • [16:38:50] <m_billybob> someone wrote a debuger for the PRU's too i thought
  • [16:38:51] <SilicaGel> people also need to whips and chains
  • [16:38:53] <mranostay> SilicaGel: one was in the works iirc.. pointless though :)
  • [16:38:58] <KotH> das: but because they didnt know any better, they made up their own guides and rules
  • [16:39:07] <KotH> das: which sometimes are pretty fucking stupid
  • [16:39:28] <KotH> das: my co-workers are reasonable, but they are sometimes quite stubborn
  • [16:39:41] <mranostay> KotH: here have a cigar^H^H^H^Hhocolate
  • [16:39:55] <KotH> das: when i try to change something, i often hear the excuse "we have done it like this for the past 10 years and it worked great"
  • [16:40:10] * m_billybob didnt like do{}(while) for a logn time either
  • [16:40:27] <KotH> mranostay: thanks, but i dont take anything you lable as chocolate ;->
  • [16:40:28] <m_billybob> but sometimes, it can be faster / more efficient.
  • [16:41:06] * mranostay cries in the corner
  • [16:41:18] <das> KotH: I'll trade no coding rules vs git
  • [16:41:24] <KotH> m_billybob: yeah.. knowing the programming language you are working with is great.. most people dont
  • [16:41:51] <KotH> mranostay: poor boy. what have they done to you?
  • [16:42:29] <KotH> mranostay: but dont worry, i'll bring you some chocolate, then you can learn how it should taste and bring that knowledge to the other side of the big pond ;)
  • [16:43:26] * jpirko (jirka@nat/redhat/x-klwyjxoljntaxurc) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
  • [16:43:32] <m_billybob> im still learning
  • [16:43:48] * JoshAshby (~josh@192.210.238.183) Quit (Quit: leaving)
  • [16:44:27] <KotH> as long as you are learning, there is nothing to fear
  • [16:44:39] <m_billybob> the do loop knowlege i picked up from someone else when reading through his code for a custom printf() on a msp430
  • [16:44:51] <m_billybob> ( and askign questions )
  • [16:45:25] * jzaw (~jzaw@loki.dzki.co.uk) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  • [16:45:47] <m_billybob> someone whom i may add knows how to cycle count, somethign else i need to work my myself
  • [16:46:16] <KotH> counting cycles i've not seen be done for a long time
  • [16:46:27] <KotH> ok, unless you are writing in asm for speed anyways
  • [16:46:48] <m_billybob> well the g2553 ( msp430 ) 16Mhz max, 512k ram, 16k flash
  • [16:46:56] <m_billybob> so you're kind of limited
  • [16:47:22] <m_billybob> eeking out every bit of performance and ram usage sometimes goes a long ways
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  • [16:47:32] <mranostay> KotH: PRU assembly!
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  • [16:48:13] <KotH> mranostay: there aint no c compiler for the PRU :)
  • [16:48:15] <das> rum o'clock
  • [16:48:17] <das> cya
  • [16:48:25] <KotH> m_billybob: i know the msp430
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  • [16:48:38] <m_billybob> rum-o'clock comes early on mondays i see :)
  • [16:48:52] <KotH> m_billybob: and it has plenty resources compared to some other stuff i worked with ;)
  • [16:49:08] <KotH> monday? i thought it's friday?
  • [16:49:14] <m_billybob> KotH as an introductory MCU into embedded i think its a pretty good platform
  • [16:49:15] <mranostay> KotH: there is but fscking pointless
  • [16:49:35] <mranostay> also the 8kb of instruction memory limits you
  • [16:49:39] <m_billybob> well mcu launchpad is a fairly decent platform for leqarning i mean
  • [16:50:41] <KotH> m_billybob: i liked the pic16c5x better, they are a lot simpler and easier to understand
  • [16:50:52] <mranostay> PIC all things!
  • [16:50:59] <KotH> m_billybob: but there werent any launchpads back then
  • [16:51:17] <m_billybob> my first embedded project was with a rabbit semi micro, and I have to tell you I hated it. they have their own proprietary compile that "ressembles" C like code, but proprietary libraries . . . i did not like it at all
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  • [16:51:52] <m_billybob> KotH I still want to learn about PIC32's/dsPICs eventually
  • [16:52:07] <KotH> m_billybob: never tried those
  • [16:52:23] <KotH> m_billybob: for 32bit stuff i'm mostly on arm
  • [16:52:32] <m_billybob> they would be decent i think if their compiler and libraries were more open, as in OSS
  • [16:52:44] <m_billybob> gcc
  • [16:53:31] <KotH> knowing microchip, their designs should not be too complicated. hence it should be easy to write a gcc backend
  • [16:53:32] <m_billybob> anyone who has been programming C for a good amount of time should feel reasonbly familiar in a gcc port toolchain
  • [16:53:44] <KotH> lol
  • [16:53:47] <KotH> no
  • [16:53:51] <KotH> defintily no
  • [16:54:02] <m_billybob> definately no what ?
  • [16:54:55] <KotH> just last friday, i had to explain someone who has been doing c/c++ for at least 20 years, what the -fno-strict-aliasing option in gcc does
  • [16:55:01] <m_billybob> tha twasnt true for me, but i stayed in the windows area for far too long
  • [16:55:10] <KotH> he wasnt even able to figure out what it meant
  • [16:55:20] <KotH> people dont know gcc
  • [16:55:28] <KotH> people dont even know how compilers work in general
  • [16:55:30] <m_billybob> couldnt type executable --h ?
  • [16:55:46] <m_billybob> or use google ?
  • [16:56:07] <KotH> he failed at google, by searching the wrong way
  • [16:56:20] <m_billybob> sometimes thats not hard to do
  • [16:56:27] <KotH> he failed to look up the manual of gcc, because he didnt think abou that
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  • [16:56:46] <m_billybob> im guilty of that myself
  • [16:56:48] <KotH> i'm actually the only one in our company who takes the time of at least skimming trough manuals and standards
  • [16:57:06] <KotH> hence i'm the only one who knows where to look up things
  • [16:57:20] <KotH> or how they relate to other things
  • [16:57:25] <KotH> it's fucking annoying
  • [16:57:44] <KotH> mranostay: another cigar^H^H^H^Hhocolate please!
  • [16:57:56] <m_billybob> last week or so i felt rather silly asking mru a question when he simply pointed me to the gnu gcc pages lol
  • [16:58:10] <KotH> hehe
  • [16:58:17] <m_billybob> my point being yeah i can relate to that
  • [16:58:21] <KotH> asking mru questions about c does that
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  • [16:58:56] <KotH> dont worry, i know him for ages and have asked him lots of such questions, and most times he just pointed me in the direction of the gcc manual or the c standard :)
  • [16:59:16] <m_billybob> the good news is that I now realize it was a silly question and it makes me think harder before asking "stupid questions"
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  • [17:00:03] <dostoyevsky> What's the best way to debug booting problems from SD card?
  • [17:00:16] <m_billybob> ...
  • [17:00:23] <m_billybob> serial debug interface ?
  • [17:00:25] <dostoyevsky> E.g. right now I do not have a monitor attached, would I get more info if there was a display?
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  • [17:00:40] <m_billybob> serial debug interface dostoyevsky
  • [17:00:48] <dostoyevsky> m_billybob: Ok
  • [17:00:56] <m_billybob> 3v3 ttl USB<-> uart module
  • [17:01:15] <m_billybob> jtag could work too but more work involved
  • [17:01:22] <m_billybob> and probably overkill
  • [17:01:42] <m_billybob> dostoyevsky we are talkign abotu a beaglebone black ?
  • [17:01:59] <KotH> i doubt anyone who does know own a serial usb cable has the skills to debug the boot up process of linux using jtag ;)
  • [17:02:12] <KotH> s/know/not/
  • [17:02:17] * KotH not awake
  • [17:02:22] <m_billybob> i dotn know how, but could learn
  • [17:02:24] <dostoyevsky> Ah... so the serial interface would give a console sort of
  • [17:02:29] <dostoyevsky> me
  • [17:02:34] <m_billybob> exactly what it does dostoyevsky
  • [17:03:15] <KotH> m_billybob: let me tell you one thing: debugging the kernel using gdb is a major PITA, there are just too many time critical things going on
  • [17:03:17] <m_billybob> startign fro mthe beginning of uboot, all the way to login. and once you login its exactly like using an ssh connection for all intents and purposes
  • [17:03:22] <KotH> m_billybob: using printf is much better
  • [17:04:06] <m_billybob> KotH im rather fond of printf() debugging. probably because it is so simple, and I kind developed my own TDD" programmign style
  • [17:04:23] <m_billybob> i compile often
  • [17:04:55] <KotH> TDD?
  • [17:05:02] <m_billybob> test driven development
  • [17:05:46] <dostoyevsky> When would you need to do kernel development on a BBB?
  • [17:05:47] <m_billybob> i dotn wirte tests, but i do test often. i wotn write code for hours before compiling, I write maybe one function at time, and ensure the code does what is expected
  • [17:06:06] * Jayneil (~jayneil@adsl-99-16-26-206.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  • [17:06:14] <m_billybob> not perfect . . . but it works good for me
  • [17:06:34] <mru> KotH: http://26-26-54.hardwarebug.org/13
  • [17:06:47] <m_billybob> lol
  • [17:06:48] <dostoyevsky> m_billybob: What are your reasons for actually developing code in the kernel vs. doing it in userland?
  • [17:06:54] <KotH> m_billybob: hehe
  • [17:06:55] <KotH> er..
  • [17:06:57] <KotH> mru: hehe
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  • [17:07:18] <m_billybob> dostoyevsky that question would be better answered by someone else
  • [17:07:36] <KotH> dostoyevsky: do everything you can do in userland there
  • [17:07:57] <KotH> dostoyevsky: everything that needs direct access to hardware that cannot be abstracted away goes into the kernel
  • [17:08:39] <KotH> m_billybob: well, depends. if you are writing bigger stuff, you sometimes need to lay down a framework of things. then you can be writing for a couple of days without having compilable code
  • [17:09:10] * jzaw (~jzaw@loki.dzki.co.uk) has joined #beagle
  • [17:09:13] <m_billybob> KotH perhaps but i guess in a case like that i do write mini tests
  • [17:09:19] <dostoyevsky> Well, I for one always felt, that Linux's security model just takes aways performance when you try to do everything through the kernel... And I suspect that might be the reason why people prefer to do stuff directly in the kernel
  • [17:09:40] * hatguy (~hatguy@1.38.28.148) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  • [17:09:45] <m_billybob> performance is relative though
  • [17:10:00] <KotH> dostoyevsky: linux security model?
  • [17:10:03] <m_billybob> sometimes fast enough, is fast enough
  • [17:10:15] <KotH> dostoyevsky: linux is a very very thin layer between the code you are running and the actual hardware
  • [17:10:35] <KotH> dostoyevsky: unlike things like windows of vms which are layers upon layers upon layers
  • [17:11:16] <KotH> dostoyevsky: if you want to understand why linux (or actually all unix in general) are like they are, read the book "the design of the unix operating system" by bach
  • [17:12:02] <dostoyevsky> KotH: I have...
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  • [17:15:32] <KotH> note to self: forgetting a boiling pan is a bad idea ^^;
  • [17:15:49] <m_billybob> ive seen fires started from such
  • [17:16:09] <m_billybob> ( aluminum pot )
  • [17:16:14] <KotH> yeah..
  • [17:16:38] <KotH> most modern stoves have temperature limits that prevent that kind of stuff, but the one i have is quite old, so it doesnt
  • [17:16:42] * anujdeshpande (~anuj@59.99.244.28) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  • [17:16:43] <m_billybob> dostoyevsky what is it that you need that much performance for ?
  • [17:16:46] <KotH> but then, i'm using steal pans :)
  • [17:16:48] <dostoyevsky> KotH: Linus policy always was to rather copy buffers to secure them against tampering and switching from userland to kernel simply takes time... But I was just wondering what people here cited as their reasons to write code in the kernel directly
  • [17:17:04] <m_billybob> in the case of the Beaglebone there is the PRU which can operate independant of the OS
  • [17:17:10] * anujdeshpande (~anuj@59.99.244.28) has joined #beagle
  • [17:17:29] <KotH> dostoyevsky: uhmm... yes and no. yes, security goes over speed. no, the linux kernel isnt slow if you imply that
  • [17:18:03] <KotH> dostoyevsky: but the kernel does away with a lot of copying in the kernel.
  • [17:18:19] <jegade> hi, how to build the device tree compiler? I like to test overlay support
  • [17:18:34] <KotH> dostoyevsky: it uses intricate tricks to ensure that buffers cannot be tampered with or are in exactly the state the kernel expects them
  • [17:18:56] <KotH> dostoyevsky: just read up a bit on "zero copy"
  • [17:19:22] <KotH> dostoyevsky: but no matter what system it is in the kernel, there is one rule that has been always applied: correct working goes over any speed improvement
  • [17:20:04] <KotH> dostoyevsky: yes, if you are master over your system and can ensure you are the only user of it, then you can get rid of quite a few security checks
  • [17:20:17] <m_billybob> worse case scenario if you need linux and performance, id probably use some dedicted hardware solution, to communicate with linux if speed for a few thigns were needed
  • [17:20:39] <KotH> dostoyevsky: but if your system is complex enough to require a unix operating system, then you cannot ensure anymore that you are the only user on the system anymore
  • [17:21:35] <KotH> dostoyevsky: how old are you and what is your profession, if i may ask?
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  • [17:22:42] <dostoyevsky> KotH: I am 37 and worked as a software engineer since 1997
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  • [17:23:55] <dostoyevsky> http://www.openonload.org/ <- userland TCP/IP stacks have always been an area where less security could give large gains in speed
  • [17:24:58] * vmayoral (~victor@34.202.217.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) Quit (Quit: Saliendo)
  • [17:25:21] <dostoyevsky> But I guess you won't do high performance stuff on an BBB anyways :)
  • [17:25:43] <dostoyevsky> And just polling some PINS should work fine from userland
  • [17:25:51] <KotH> dostoyevsky: uhmm.. no
  • [17:26:26] <KotH> dostoyevsky: user land tcp/ip stacks give you more speed because you can do stuff in the user space that you cannot do in kernel space. like operations on huge (MB large) buffers
  • [17:26:39] <KotH> dostoyevsky: that's where the gain of such user land implementations come from
  • [17:27:03] <KotH> dostoyevsky: for more information on this topic read "network algorithms" by varghese
  • [17:27:11] <dostoyevsky> KotH: Ok, interesting to know
  • [17:27:16] <ds2> you can do large buffers from kernel space
  • [17:27:33] <KotH> ds2: not large continous buffers
  • [17:27:39] <ds2> sure you can
  • [17:27:42] <ds2> large pages
  • [17:28:03] <KotH> you have to reserve these on early after boot
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  • [17:28:16] <KotH> after a couple of minutes of runtime, memory gets pretty fragemented
  • [17:28:18] <ds2> sure
  • [17:28:34] <ds2> it doesn't prevent you from doing it. you just need to design it so you can do it
  • [17:28:39] <dostoyevsky> KotH: The kernel itself doesn't use the MMU?
  • [17:29:10] <KotH> ok, i dont know what linux offers these days on this topic, but on early 2.6 there was no way you could get more than 4th order allocation after all init scripts have run
  • [17:29:24] <KotH> dostoyevsky: it does and yet it doesnt
  • [17:29:31] <KotH> dostoyevsky: you cannot use the MMU at all places
  • [17:29:33] <ds2> the kernel does use the MMU but kernel code and data (in general) is no pageable to avoid locking issues
  • [17:30:20] <KotH> dostoyevsky: the large document on kernel memory managment that IIRC mel gorman wrote a couple of years ago
  • [17:30:21] <ds2> KotH: MMU is not just paging. you HAVE to use the MMU unless you explicitly request otherwise
  • [17:30:31] * marcoaurelio (b1219962@gateway/web/freenode/ip.177.33.153.98) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
  • [17:30:49] <KotH> ds2: yes. i was refering to the use that dostoyevsky was implying
  • [17:31:25] <dostoyevsky> Does BBB's armv7 have a MMU that is comparable to x64?
  • [17:31:58] <mranostay> oh boi
  • [17:32:35] <dostoyevsky> KotH: I will check out those authors you mentioned
  • [17:32:41] <KotH> dostoyevsky: you have never done low leve or OS kernel stuff (not necessarily linux) ?
  • [17:33:26] * kiilo (~kiilo@77-56-99-130.dclient.hispeed.ch) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [17:33:26] <dostoyevsky> KotH: I have done some
  • [17:33:46] <KotH> weird...
  • [17:33:55] <dostoyevsky> KotH: Why?
  • [17:35:12] <m_billybob> the BBB's ethernet is prett darned fast too
  • [17:35:27] <m_billybob> cant see it gettign much better than 11.9MB/s reads
  • [17:35:56] <KotH> dostoyevsky: the types of questions you are asking are those i would to hear from someone who has never touched anything low level
  • [17:36:21] <mranostay> +1
  • [17:36:26] <KotH> m_billybob: troughput is not always the thing you need, sometimes it's latency ;)
  • [17:36:44] <KotH> dostoyevsky: put there an "expect" where it fits
  • [17:36:47] <m_billybob> sub millisecond
  • [17:36:54] <KotH> m_billybob: slooooooooooow :)
  • [17:37:05] <dostoyevsky> KotH: I haven't worked much outside Intel, if that's what you mean
  • [17:37:07] <m_billybob> fast enough :)
  • [17:37:18] <KotH> mranostay: he is your friend! ;-)
  • [17:37:53] <mranostay> heh sure sure
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  • [17:40:07] <dostoyevsky> Well, I am not here to win a popularity contest. Just understanding things
  • [17:40:18] <dostoyevsky> Sorry if that offends you
  • [17:40:37] <KotH> dont worry about that
  • [17:40:41] <KotH> you didnt offend anyone
  • [17:40:55] <KotH> i just want to understand where your questions come from, to give better answers
  • [17:41:09] * mranostay offends KotH
  • [17:41:20] <KotH> mranostay: put that hersheys away!
  • [17:41:29] <m_billybob> send him chocolate from oregon
  • [17:41:30] * shft_ (~shft@89.189.147.215.dynamic.ufanet.ru) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  • [17:41:31] <m_billybob> lol
  • [17:41:38] <m_billybob> samepage there
  • [17:41:46] <mranostay> hipster chocolate?
  • [17:41:57] <m_billybob> nasty american chocolate
  • [17:42:17] <m_billybob> unfortunately its all we have a lot of the time
  • [17:42:23] <mranostay> m_billybob: how about corporate vending machine chocolate
  • [17:42:32] <m_billybob> worse still
  • [17:42:54] <dm8tbr> snickers bars
  • [17:42:57] <m_billybob> i lived in germany for 3 years though so i have a vague understanding of what good chocolate is
  • [17:43:20] <dostoyevsky> KotH: I am writing a compiler in my freetime and I want to support armv6, armv7, and x64. That's basically why I got an RPI and BBB now. :)
  • [17:43:49] <KotH> dostoyevsky: i hope you already own the dragon book? :)
  • [17:44:26] <mranostay> yet another compiler?
  • [17:44:43] <dostoyevsky> KotH: Yes... also read this like 15 years ago... and then Muchnik (sp?)... But I just want do to a simple turob-pascal style one-pass compiler
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  • [17:46:00] <dostoyevsky> mranostay: Some things you can only appreciate if you try to write them yourself. After that I probably write my own kernel.. Just to see what it's like. Not to invent the next Linux
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  • [17:48:37] <m_billybob> while you're at it see if you can help out red hat to speed along the "next best mspgcc" ;)
  • [17:48:51] <m_billybob> no sarcasmmeant.
  • [17:48:55] <urlgrey> I have a question regarding the eMMC Ubuntu 13.04 flash image for the Beaglebone Black, does anyone here have experience in that area?
  • [17:48:59] <m_billybob> no sarcasm meant.
  • [17:49:54] <m_billybob> I've always wanted to write my own OS too, but then realization for me sets in. I would never finish it ( not enough time )
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  • [17:51:14] <dostoyevsky> m_billybob: Do one that just prints "hello world"... Then do one that initializes the MMU and does a page fault calling an interrupt you've set up... you could do this in a week if you had no idea about it. If you already know how to write boot managers you could do it in some hours I'd say
  • [17:51:35] <KotH> dostoyevsky: muchnick is a good book if you want to learn about optimizations in general. but the notation he invents is very confusing. and it only contains the most basic stuff about optimization
  • [17:52:41] <dostoyevsky> KotH: #llvm @ oftc is a very good resource.
  • [17:53:20] <KotH> dostoyevsky: for a simple one pass compiler, get yourself a copy of the last book wirth has published (sorry, cant remember the name and a friend of mine lost my copy), he explains how to get there in simple words with lots of examples
  • [17:53:20] <dostoyevsky> And llvm has documented code... nice to read imho
  • [17:53:52] <KotH> dostoyevsky: also "language implementation patters" by part, is very usefull
  • [17:53:55] <dostoyevsky> KotH: Yeah, I have it on my list of things to read
  • [17:53:58] <KotH> patterns*
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  • [18:46:06] <dostoyevsky> Just was able to ssh to my BB after eMM update, yay!
  • [18:46:28] <dostoyevsky> eMMC even
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  • [18:49:24] <dostoyevsky> It's a bit annoying that I have to hold a button to actually boot from an SD card... so it means if I want archlinux-arm then I'd need to put it on eMMC to use it conveniently
  • [18:49:58] <emeb_mac> dostoyevsky: you can force boot from SD by adding a pullup resistor to one of the pins on P8
  • [18:50:29] <dostoyevsky> emeb_mac: Ah, great!
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  • [18:51:11] <emeb_mac> the boot modes are listed in a table in the schematic
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  • [19:21:17] <dostoyevsky> Does the standard Linux distribution for the BB have a package manager?
  • [19:21:30] <dostoyevsky> Could I easily install say ruby?
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  • [19:21:57] <LetoThe2nd> it has opkg, yes
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  • [19:27:41] <dostoyevsky> Unknown package 'ruby'.
  • [19:28:46] <LetoThe2nd> opkg search ruby ;)
  • [19:29:16] <LetoThe2nd> dostoyevsky: also: http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/repo/
  • [19:29:34] <dostoyevsky> hmmm... No result for "opkg search ruby"
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  • [19:29:51] <LetoThe2nd> dostoyevsky: of course you need to run opkg update first to get the list of available packages...
  • [19:29:59] <LetoThe2nd> dostoyevsky: http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/repo/?pkgname=ruby
  • [19:30:04] <dostoyevsky> I see
  • [19:32:42] <dostoyevsky> Ok, it seems to be install ruby
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  • [19:39:13] <dostoyevsky> With my simple benchmark the BB seeems to be twice as fast as my RPI
  • [19:40:02] <dostoyevsky> http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/repo/?pkgname=clang
  • [19:40:05] <dostoyevsky> no clang?
  • [19:40:18] * falstaff_ (~quassel@62-12-236-200.pool.cyberlink.ch) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  • [19:40:51] <KotH> http://26-26-54.hardwarebug.org/167
  • [19:40:58] <KotH> dostoyevsky: ^^^^^
  • [19:41:49] <dostoyevsky> KotH: My compiler is written in C++11. :)
  • [19:42:06] <KotH> at least you didnt use node.js ;-)
  • [19:42:23] <dostoyevsky> v8 ?
  • [19:42:36] <KotH> node.js is cancer
  • [19:42:54] <LetoThe2nd> http://26-26-54.hardwarebug.org/105
  • [19:43:02] <dostoyevsky> Compiling my C++11 program takes 33s on my RPI
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  • [19:43:25] <KotH> ^^;
  • [19:43:33] <KotH> one does not simply compile on an embedded system
  • [19:44:06] <dostoyevsky> hmmm before that I used to compiler on ALA via Qemu
  • [19:44:28] <dostoyevsky> About six times slower than on the RPI
  • [19:44:32] <KotH> have you ever heard about this thing called cross compiler ? :)
  • [19:44:46] <KotH> about a dozen times faster than your rpi, i'd say
  • [19:44:53] <dostoyevsky> KotH: llmvm does this naturally these days
  • [19:45:09] <KotH> then why dont you use it?
  • [19:45:33] <KotH> or are you really into this bondage stuff?
  • [19:45:54] <dostoyevsky> KotH: Because I am writing a compiler? And so I need to compile and execute all the time...
  • [19:46:30] <dostoyevsky> And waiting 30s is really not much by my standards
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  • [19:46:41] <KotH> ^^'
  • [19:46:45] <dostoyevsky> And I suppose on the BB I could get this down to 15s or so
  • [19:47:03] * KotH remembers a time, when he thought that waiting 30s to compile mplayer was a very long wait
  • [19:47:41] <dostoyevsky> Also my single pass compiler is really very fast... Like turbo pascal used to be
  • [19:48:11] <mranostay> turbo pascal what fscking year did i wake up in?
  • [19:48:20] <dostoyevsky> 0.00s user 0.03s system 48% cpu 0.061 total
  • [19:48:32] <dostoyevsky> My hello world on the RPI...
  • [19:53:08] <dostoyevsky> vs 0.5s for compiling a hello worl[Dd via clang
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  • [20:00:35] <Bo|2> Q: is there a list of 3G dongles that can be used with BBB ? i have googled for it... no much luck there
  • [20:01:42] <prpplague> Bo|2: basically any that work on linux work on the BBB
  • [20:01:52] <Bo|2> heheh
  • [20:02:07] <Bo|2> only tested it on win... no linux devices atm
  • [20:02:13] <Bo|2> thou i know a bit linux
  • [20:02:15] <mranostay> dongle talk!
  • [20:02:53] <Bo|2> i have a Huawei E3276 but i can get another
  • [20:03:14] <Bo|2> phone company just sent it for me to test
  • [20:03:29] <Bo|2> not surprised over the speed but live far out
  • [20:04:31] * georgem doesn't want to hear about anyone else's dongle
  • [20:05:05] <djlewis> keep your dongle where it belongs
  • [20:05:23] <Bo|2> ehhh?
  • [20:05:57] <Bo|2> was it a joke or?
  • [20:06:09] <djlewis> :)
  • [20:06:49] <Bo|2> i assume yes
  • [20:06:51] <Bo|2> :-D
  • [20:07:13] <Bo|2> just trying to figure if the one i have is of use or if i should go for something else
  • [20:07:29] <Bo|2> or even go for a 3g modem so that i have a rj45 plug
  • [20:07:41] <Bo|2> just want to go as compact i can
  • [20:07:50] <Bo|2> going to use this for a tracker
  • [20:09:13] <SpeedEvil> what sort of tracker?
  • [20:09:44] <Bo|2> ohh SpeedEvil now where do i know that name from :-D
  • [20:09:54] <SpeedEvil> electronics?
  • [20:09:56] <Bo|2> highaltitude maybe
  • [20:10:07] * Bo|2 is now known as Bo_DK
  • [20:10:36] <SpeedEvil> that too
  • [20:10:38] <Bo_DK> SpeedEvil: its for the HAB tracker i'm building
  • [20:10:49] <Bo_DK> just got cape done today
  • [20:11:07] <Bo_DK> need to have it eyeballed very throughly thou
  • [20:11:07] <SpeedEvil> You do know that cell networks are generally deprecated for use in tracking?
  • [20:11:20] <SpeedEvil> You tend to only get network maybe half the time on the way down
  • [20:11:33] <Bo_DK> BBB... its not for in the air
  • [20:11:39] <Bo_DK> its for a ground based tracker
  • [20:11:49] <Bo_DK> or listning station if you will
  • [20:11:53] <SpeedEvil> ah
  • [20:11:58] <Bo_DK> but a very compact and light one
  • [20:12:20] <Bo_DK> goal is that it can fit on a camera tripod
  • [20:12:26] <Bo_DK> and be fully automatic
  • [20:12:40] <Bo_DK> set an leave it...
  • [20:12:49] <Bo_DK> then control from home if need be
  • [20:13:02] <Bo_DK> but should be able to track on its own
  • [20:13:06] <Bo_DK> in the end that is
  • [20:13:26] <Bo_DK> going to make a mockup in scrap wood for the part that moves the yagi
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  • [20:14:27] <Bo_DK> now i'm just trying to figure what works with BBB
  • [20:14:40] <Bo_DK> no need to hold on the dongle i have if it will never work
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  • [20:14:49] <Bo_DK> or if it needs to much tweaking
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  • [20:15:46] <Bo_DK> brb
  • [20:16:03] <m_billybob> dostoyevsky btw you do not need to add a pullup to boot without button interaction. you can do that through u-boot / uEnv.txt
  • [20:16:25] * m_billybob doesnt like modyfying hardware if he doesnt have to
  • [20:16:39] <m_billybob> modifying too
  • [20:18:55] <KotH> and there, i thought for a second you were an EE
  • [20:25:44] <Bo_DK> figured about the 3G dongle thing here: http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2131816 look at last post
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  • [20:28:19] <m_billybob> KotH, hardly
  • [20:28:48] <m_billybob> KotH i know just enough about the hardware im writting software for to make it work.
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  • [20:31:02] <KotH> ^^'
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  • [20:57:25] <ion> luqman: FWIW, upgrading the the kernel to the latest stable one on http://rcn-ee.net/deb/sid-armhf/ fixed the problem. Didn???t work on 3.8.13-bone24, works on 3.8.13-bone26.
  • [20:57:29] <ion> % printf '%s\n' 'fn main() { println("o hai"); }' >/tmp/hai.rs && rustc -O --target=arm-unknown-linux-gnueabihf --linker=arm-linux-gnueabihf-gcc -o /tmp/hai /tmp/hai.rs && rsync -a /tmp/hai ~/.local/rust/lib/rustc/arm-unknown-linux-gnueabihf/lib/lib*.so drone@drone.local:/tmp/ && ssh drone@drone.local env LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/tmp /tmp/hai
  • [20:57:30] <ion> o hai
  • [20:57:47] <Luqman> ion: sweet :D
  • [20:58:04] <Luqman> though i'm still curious why it was failing before
  • [20:58:15] <ion> Yeah???
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  • [21:04:41] <ion> luqman: Thanks for helping make this happen, rust is an excellent language for my project. :-)
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  • [21:25:22] <mranostay> KotH: i play a EE on IRC does that count?
  • [21:25:44] <KotH> juup, counts as EE.junior
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  • [21:31:11] <brimestone> hey guys, which book should i get.. the "Bad to the Bone" or the "Make - Getting Started with Beaglebone"?
  • [21:32:34] <KotH> the better one :)
  • [21:32:43] <brimestone> which is?
  • [21:32:47] <KotH> dunno
  • [21:32:56] <KotH> i hardly ever read books on OSS stuff
  • [21:32:57] <brimestone> oh. both sucks?
  • [21:33:08] <KotH> they expire faster than i can read them
  • [21:33:13] <KotH> and i'm a fast reader
  • [21:33:20] <brimestone> im not :D
  • [21:33:32] <KotH> then they will rot in your hands ;)
  • [21:33:40] <brimestone> ha!
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  • [21:35:29] <KotH> and actually, i must say i have no clue what value such a book would give me
  • [21:35:42] <KotH> the bone is nothing more than a computer
  • [21:35:54] <KotH> and as such running linux on the bone is the same as running it on a pc
  • [21:36:17] <KotH> the only difference is in that you can connect devices over i2c and spi
  • [21:36:26] <KotH> and for that you have to deal with device tree
  • [21:36:35] <KotH> but that's something that's quite easy to learn
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  • [21:47:50] <SpeedEvil> prus make it somewhat different
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  • [22:02:26] <hurlawhirl> hello, I'm trying to configure UART4 on my BB Black with hardware flow control. I can get it to work but with a response delay (from CTS pulled high from neighboring GPIO pin) of avg 2ms. When I connect it to the pair device, which deasserts RTS/CTS when the buffer is full, BBB does not respond immediately and thus I get lost data. I'm thinking I haven't configured the UART right so as to use hardware flow control?
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  • [22:58:49] <ds2> Hmmm
  • [23:00:16] <mranostay> ds2: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
  • [23:02:15] <ds2> getting that excited over x86 huh?
  • [23:03:24] <mranostay> heh unlikely
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  • [23:10:41] <hurlawhirl> has anyone been able to get UART hardware flow control working on the beaglebone black?
  • [23:11:27] <mranostay> why?
  • [23:12:28] <hurlawhirl> I'm trying to get it working for a project.
  • [23:12:42] <mranostay> why you need hardware flow control?
  • [23:13:46] <hurlawhirl> it's talking to a Bluetooth chip which is interrupted by BLE activity, during which it can't receive data. but the BBB still sends
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  • [23:17:50] <thefunc5> does anything special need to be done to have the output the BBB to a vga monitor?
  • [23:19:36] <thefunc5> itll display out to a tv via hdmi, but im trying to output to a vga monitor, it displays the boot screen and then the signal appears to drop
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  • [23:26:03] <ds2> Hmmm
  • [23:29:04] <thefunc5> its really odd
  • [23:30:51] <ds2> the timings it supports could be the issue
  • [23:30:58] <ds2> check the EDID on it
  • [23:31:43] <thefunc5> havent ever heard of that
  • [23:31:45] <thefunc5> ill do some googling
  • [23:31:47] <thefunc5> THX :)
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  • [23:35:12] <thefunc5> when attempting to boot to microsd, if no display it output to HDMI and the lights are all solid instead of blinking, what would that suggest
  • [23:36:18] <thurgood> what does the debug console say?
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  • [23:37:06] <thefunc5> ya thats another issue, can't get the debug to work
  • [23:37:13] <thefunc5> lol
  • [23:37:32] <thefunc5> drivers install fine
  • [23:38:10] <thefunc5> no errors on a win7 64bit machine, when i plug the beaglebone in, it either locks up the machine and causes and reboot/bsod, or it doesnt appear as a device that i can find
  • [23:38:17] <thefunc5> that one needs more troubleshooting tonight
  • [23:40:00] <thefunc5> for now im upgrading angstrom while i try to build my ideas around the vga output
  • [23:40:19] <thefunc5> my test monitor vga only, cnat use the tv...gf is home watching movies
  • [23:42:33] <thefunc5> anyone on the channel have luck installing arch linux on the BBB? or is debian/ubuntu the choice of reason?
  • [23:43:27] <dostoyevsky> thefunc5: I think most use ALA
  • [23:44:13] <thefunc5> dostoyevsky: ALA?
  • [23:44:15] <dostoyevsky> Or are like me too dumb to get anything except angstrom install and hence have to stick to this
  • [23:44:24] <thefunc5> lol
  • [23:44:40] <dostoyevsky> thefunc5: archlinux-arm
  • [23:45:03] <dostoyevsky> Note that archlinux-arm and archlinux are two separate things
  • [23:45:08] <thefunc5> dostoyevsky: thats what i plan, archlinux-arm seems to have a wonderful selection of VERY up to date packages
  • [23:45:19] <thefunc5> dostoyevsky: they are seperate projects right?
  • [23:45:35] <thurgood> heh, people don't stick with angstrom just because they're dumb
  • [23:45:37] <dostoyevsky> thefunc5: ALA is a fork of archlinux, IIUC..
  • [23:46:34] <thefunc5> dostoyevsky: that i didnt know, i thought it was just a port done by the same devs, kinda like FreeBSD or Debian has its own ARM port
  • [23:46:57] <dostoyevsky> thefunc5: Nope. Really different projects
  • [23:47:58] <thefunc5> dostoyevsky: wow i feel like a fool, is it just a parallel type of fork? as if it split off and just does the same basic path just for ARM?
  • [23:48:54] <dostoyevsky> thefunc5: Not sure... feel free to ask in #archlinux-arm or #archlinux
  • [23:49:46] <dostoyevsky> But arch linux was always Intel only and just adding platforms is not going to make maintaining stuff easier. Very rapid integration of new stuff has its price
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  • [23:53:44] <thefunc5> !?!?! i didnt know they had their own channel
  • [23:54:10] <thefunc5> dostoyevsky: what do you have you BBB doing running angstrom?
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