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  • [16:32:29] * Topic is 'Please read http://beagleboard.org/chat for a guide on how to ask questions | don't ask to ask | be patient'
  • [16:32:29] * Set by jkridner!~jason@pdpc/supporter/active/jkridner on Tue May 15 11:38:35 CDT 2012
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  • [16:33:14] <mranostay> BeagleBot is NSA Prism
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  • [16:36:22] <mdp> heh
  • [16:37:17] <mdp> I can see all the FISA requests coming for "that guy that shouts JIHAD!" all the time ;)
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  • [16:39:19] <mranostay> KotH: Beaglebomb cape for you
  • [16:39:46] <dk-> Hi, I
  • [16:40:55] <dk-> m having some troubles here. I am trying to get serial working on the Beaglebone Black, to get to a u-boot prompt, but I'm having serious issues googling what pins correspond to UART3. Can someone point me in the right direction?
  • [16:41:44] <dk-> I might confusing beagleboards now, but I'm after TX and RX on the UART that is initiated and used by u-boot.
  • [16:42:04] <_av500_> on j1
  • [16:42:11] <_av500_> see the schematics
  • [16:42:16] * _Sy_ (SPlatten@acquire.demon.co.uk) has joined #beagle
  • [16:42:19] <_av500_> that is UART0
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  • [16:43:12] <bradfa> dk-, which u-boot config are you using? Use the uart0 one to put the uart on UART0
  • [16:43:18] * _grantsmith (~grantsmit@vcc.marathon-man.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  • [16:44:32] <dk-> bradfa: The default that comes with the ??ngstr??m-distribution
  • [16:44:49] <bradfa> dk-, probably uart0,then
  • [16:45:16] <dk-> _av500_: Found it in the schematics now, thanks!
  • [16:45:25] <_av500_> np
  • [16:48:41] * nslu2-log (~nslu2-log@140.211.169.184) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [16:48:53] <_av500_> http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/13/06/navy-gives-up-allcaps-messaging-160-years-after-it-began/276794/
  • [16:48:57] <_av500_> OMG!!
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  • [16:50:51] <ka6sox> there he is...
  • [16:50:58] <ka6sox> no prism but still
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  • [16:58:36] <Russ> _av500_, STOP!
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  • [17:24:19] <dk-> bradfa: When you said u-boot config, did you mean uEnv.txt?
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  • [17:27:43] <qrohlf_> Is there any way to mount and/or write to the microsd card on the BeagleBone Black when booted from the eMMC?
  • [17:28:08] <qrohlf_> The micosd isn't showing up when I fdisk -l
  • [17:28:19] <kfoltman_> it's either /dev/mmcblk0 or /dev/mmcblk1?
  • [17:28:25] <panto> back
  • [17:29:14] <qrohlf_> dev/emmcblk0 is the emmc
  • [17:29:33] <qrohlf_> and there is no dev/mmcblk1, which seems odd to me
  • [17:30:23] <kfoltman_> mechanical problem with the socket?
  • [17:30:26] <Mode-M> qrohlf_: does something show up in dmesg when you plug in the sd card?
  • [17:30:27] <qrohlf_> ls /dev | grep mmc gives me 5 entries for mmcblk0*
  • [17:30:38] <qrohlf_> but nothing for mmcblk1
  • [17:31:48] <qrohlf_> what should I be looking for in dmesg? I see a lot of "gadget: rndis reqa1.01 v0000 i0000 l4096"
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  • [17:33:38] <Mode-M> well, something about mmcXY
  • [17:34:00] <qrohlf_> definitely nothing like that showing up
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  • [17:34:17] <qrohlf_> this is a brand new board though
  • [17:34:29] <qrohlf_> seems unlikely that the sd slot would be broken
  • [17:34:53] <qrohlf_> especially since when I power-up the board with the sd in the slot, it tries to boot from the sd
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  • [17:36:27] <kfoltman_> qrohlf_: try putting in the SD card in reverse?
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  • [17:36:52] <qrohlf_> Microsd cards only go in one way
  • [17:36:54] <kfoltman_> as in, upside down
  • [17:37:04] <kfoltman_> well, if it's held in the socket, then it's the right orientation
  • [17:37:09] <qrohlf_> yes
  • [17:37:14] <qrohlf_> it is inserted correctly
  • [17:37:19] <qrohlf_> However
  • [17:37:31] <bradfa> dk-, when you build u-boot you first run a make config step selecting what will be built, for am335x_evm (and bone) you can pick any of the uarts to have your serial port be on for bootup. That config is what I meant
  • [17:37:33] <qrohlf_> according to a post I just turned up on the google group
  • [17:37:59] <qrohlf_> it looks like accessing the sd isn't enabled in the kernel that ships with the board
  • [17:38:07] <qrohlf_> "(1) The kernel (including the most recent one) does not currently support the insertion and ejection of sdcard. As a result, the running kernel has no way to even see that you've inserted an sdcard, so nothing really works after that. The immediate implication is that once your BBB has booted and the kernel is up and running, the sdcard is essentially useless. If you insert an sdcard and do an "fdisk -l" it wont even list your card o
  • [17:38:24] <qrohlf_> (that's from https://groups.google.com/d/msg/beagleboard/MKApMsH3Q7M/L7HWyKpavDQJ)
  • [17:39:01] <Mode-M> yes, that's most likely the source of the problem.
  • [17:39:04] <dk-> bradfa: I see, thanks. Is it possible to change baudrate for uart0 there as well?
  • [17:39:06] <qrohlf_> So I guess it's just not possible to mount the sdcard when the BeagleBone is booted directly from eMMC
  • [17:39:15] <panto> qrohlf_, no
  • [17:39:16] <qrohlf_> that seems like a bit of a waste of resources
  • [17:39:26] <panto> it is possible as long as it's inserted
  • [17:39:37] <panto> well, the driver needs fixin'
  • [17:39:49] <panto> but there's nothing that can't be fixed
  • [17:39:56] * MrMobius is now known as evilMobius
  • [17:40:58] <qrohlf_> right, but is it possible to mount the sdcard with the stock eMMC image that ships with the device?
  • [17:41:44] * qrohlf_ is now known as qrohlf
  • [17:42:11] <qrohlf> weird, didn't notice that underscore was there
  • [17:42:44] <qrohlf> anyways, I'm just not seeing a way to mount the microSD using the Angstrom distro that ships on the eMMC
  • [17:44:04] * cwillu (~cwillu@cwillu.com) has joined #beagle
  • [17:44:38] <panto> err, mount /dev/mmcblock1p1 /media/cf doesn't work?
  • [17:44:46] <panto> cause I'm sure it does
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  • [17:47:13] <qrohlf> "root@beaglebone:~# mount /dev/mmcblock1p1 /media/cf "
  • [17:47:15] <qrohlf> "mount: special device /dev/mmcblock1p1 does not exist"
  • [17:48:01] <qrohlf> looks like there's a workaround over at http://dev.gentoo.org/~armin76/arm/beagleboneblack/install_emmc.xml#expand
  • [17:48:15] <qrohlf> but it requires partitioning the card
  • [17:48:17] <panto> have you booted with sdcard connected
  • [17:48:45] <qrohlf> I can't boot with the sdcard connected. The system won't boot with a non-bootable sdcard connected
  • [17:49:51] <panto> it is possible to do so
  • [17:50:17] <panto> override the mmc device you want to boot from u-boot
  • [17:50:37] <panto> I know that both mmc ports work cause I boot over NFS all the time
  • [17:51:01] <qrohlf> right, but I have to have a u-boot on the sdcard
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  • [17:51:21] <qrohlf> this is a microsd from an Android phone that I want the BeagleBone to be able to read data from
  • [17:51:37] <qrohlf> ideally, it would work with any microsd from an Android phone
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  • [17:52:34] <qrohlf> what you're suggesting is partitioning the microsd with a boot partition that instructs the BeagleBone to boot from eMMC instead of the microsd, correct?
  • [17:53:18] * _chase_ (~a0271661@192.91.66.186) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  • [17:53:45] <panto> qrohlf, no such convoluted method required
  • [17:54:09] <panto> modify uEnv.txt in the emmc to only boot from emmc, and not probe the other port
  • [17:54:20] <qrohlf> ah
  • [17:54:23] <qrohlf> I see
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  • [17:54:39] <panto> the whole mess is due to the ROM
  • [17:56:26] <qrohlf> uEnv.txt is on /dev/mmcblk0p1, yes?
  • [17:56:46] <qrohlf> yeah, it is
  • [17:56:58] <qrohlf> (apologies for stupid question)
  • [17:58:53] <KotH> mranostay: does it come in belt form?
  • [18:00:28] <qrohlf> thanks for the help panto. Is there any documentation for what options I can set in uEnv.txt?
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  • [18:01:32] <panto> qrohlf, there is in u-boot sources
  • [18:01:39] <panto> and the net
  • [18:01:47] <panto> it's standard u-boot
  • [18:02:28] <qrohlf> ah, okay. I might add a link to the u-boot documentation on the BBB wiki or something. I was searching around there and not getting much in the way of ansers
  • [18:02:36] * kfoltman_ (~kfoltman@188.141.18.243) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  • [18:04:26] <m_billybob> indeed, i finally figured out nfs /root/ last night and apparently not the first one to do so
  • [18:04:49] * contempt (contempt@unaffiliated/contempt) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  • [18:06:20] <Spirilis> woohoo! got pinmux set up for UART4 ("uart5") and successfully read a GPS module over minicom.
  • [18:08:51] <m_billybob> goos job Spirilis
  • [18:08:56] <m_billybob> good tooo . . .
  • [18:09:16] <mranostay> _Sy_: CAPS FOREVER! KEEP THE FAITH
  • [18:09:23] <mranostay> er _av500_
  • [18:09:33] <mranostay> _av500_: STOP.
  • [18:09:34] <_Sy_> ?
  • [18:10:11] <mranostay> _Sy_: don't mind me. i'm just being an idiot
  • [18:10:22] <Russ> you can't forget the stop, otherwise people don't know if they got the whole message, STOP
  • [18:10:55] <mranostay> what if your message has the word STOP in it?
  • [18:12:05] <qrohlf> alright, I broke it. Experimenting with uEnv.txt appears to have prevented it from booting anything - is there a quick way to reset uboot or boot without loading uEnv?
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  • [18:16:10] <_av500_> you broke nothing
  • [18:16:22] * mranostay MAKES IT ALL CAPS DAY
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  • [18:16:50] <qrohlf> I was being hyperbolic. I hope I didn't "break" anything, but I did manage to make it not boot
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  • [18:32:46] * bradfa does a little dance cause new ST radio showed up! :)
  • [18:33:11] <ds2> ST radio?
  • [18:33:26] <bradfa> SPIRIT1 http://www.st.com/web/en/catalog/sense_power/FM1968/CL1976/SC1845/PF253167
  • [18:34:25] * anujdeshpande (~anuj@59.99.244.28) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
  • [18:41:46] * SpeedEvil makes OOK OOK noises.
  • [18:42:22] <SpeedEvil> Is 'FEC coding' 'That would be an ecumenical matter' ?
  • [18:42:45] <bradfa> SpeedEvil, forward error correction?
  • [18:43:00] <SpeedEvil> Never mind - 'Father Ted' based joke.
  • [18:43:09] <bradfa> ah
  • [18:43:10] <SpeedEvil> Is that a new part?
  • [18:43:18] <bradfa> fairly new, last year I think
  • [18:44:51] <SpeedEvil> hmm
  • [18:45:36] <bradfa> Analog Devices has a nice sub-1GHz radio that's new, too
  • [18:45:40] <bradfa> AD7023, I think is the pn
  • [18:46:11] <SpeedEvil> What're you thinking of it for?
  • [18:47:25] <bradfa> We run 433 MHz system for a bunch of things
  • [18:49:53] * stahl (~stahl@46-126-109-217.dynamic.hispeed.ch) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  • [18:50:09] <Rickta59> anyone played around loading a loading a kernel image over the serial line with ymodem? I gave it a shot on my BBB and wasn't sure how to provide the dts stuff
  • [18:50:21] <Rickta59> loady $loadaddr ..
  • [18:50:22] <Rickta59> that worked
  • [18:50:39] <Rickta59> run $loadaddr .. dumps registers and then resets itself
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  • [18:56:32] <ds2> how does that compared to the CC* parts?
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  • [19:03:07] <dk-> Does anyone here know if there has been any work done on porting BeagleBoardPkg from edk2 to BeagleBone?
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  • [19:22:00] <mranostay> edk2?
  • [19:22:30] * mrpackethead (~mrpacketh@147.200.109.203.static.cust.vf.net.nz) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [19:22:54] <bradfa> ds2, it's a comparable part, slightly lower current consumption compared to cc1101 if the datasheets are to be believed
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  • [19:23:10] <bradfa> but cc1101 data sheets aren't accurate on current numbers
  • [19:23:15] <bradfa> at least not by our measures
  • [19:23:33] <bradfa> but spirit1 is more expensive than cc1101
  • [19:23:40] <b0o> anyone know what the max voltage you can supply the beaglebone black is?
  • [19:23:57] <KotH> bradfa: cc1100 uses more?
  • [19:24:05] <dk-> mrpackethead: EFI Development Kit
  • [19:24:07] <bradfa> ds2, freescale has some new SoC coming out rsn with integrated sub-1GHz radio and cortex-m0 for good prices
  • [19:24:19] <bradfa> KotH, I believe so
  • [19:24:24] <KotH> hmm...
  • [19:24:28] * KotH takes notes
  • [19:24:38] <KotH> bradfa: do you know how much more?
  • [19:24:39] <bradfa> new analog devices part has nice specs, too
  • [19:24:47] <bradfa> KotH, not yet, will soon :)
  • [19:25:00] <KotH> bradfa: i'd be interested into numbers :)
  • [19:25:09] <KotH> bradfa: if you would be so kind, of course
  • [19:25:10] <bradfa> ok, if I get some hard numbers I'll share, ping me in a few weeks
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  • [19:25:26] <bradfa> have to finish up a few things before I get to play with comparing them
  • [19:25:42] <KotH> ok... i'll ping you after EFTF
  • [19:25:48] <bradfa> we have found cc430 current consumption data sheet numbers are wrong
  • [19:25:56] <KotH> ouch
  • [19:26:06] <bradfa> but we were suspicious anyway so no big deal
  • [19:26:06] <KotH> TI is usually quite accurate
  • [19:26:28] <KotH> i could understand if the cc1100 is a bit of, as it was designed when it was still chipcon
  • [19:27:31] <mrpackethead> bradfa: there is also a similar kit from TI
  • [19:27:52] <bradfa> mrpackethead, yes, I have cc1101 kit
  • [19:27:57] <bradfa> got spirit1 kit today
  • [19:28:04] <KotH> bradfa: btw: what do you use for low current measurements?
  • [19:28:06] <bradfa> might get ad7023 kit
  • [19:28:36] <bradfa> KotH, we have a scope and a TI amplifier for doing mA measurements, use a multimeter for uA measures
  • [19:28:47] <KotH> bradfa: and sub-us?
  • [19:28:56] <bradfa> sub- micro seconds?
  • [19:29:05] <KotH> er... sub uA :)
  • [19:29:18] * KotH had too many different units today
  • [19:29:24] <mranostay> bradfa: nanoseconds
  • [19:29:26] <bradfa> about 1 uA is as low as we need to measure, that's as low as cc430 can go in LPM4
  • [19:29:41] <KotH> ok
  • [19:29:54] <bradfa> any lower than that and I'm told the batteries will not be happy
  • [19:30:07] <bradfa> anything lower than self discharge is bad
  • [19:30:17] <mru> KotH: british alcohol units?
  • [19:30:30] <KotH> mru: that would apply to mranostay
  • [19:30:43] <KotH> bradfa: huh? self discharge gets significant, but it doesnt get worse
  • [19:31:14] <bradfa> KotH, if we drain the battery at lower than the self discharge rate (roughly 1 uA for our batteries) I'm told that bad things happen over a few years time to the battery internal chemistry
  • [19:31:26] <KotH> bradfa: really? never heard of that
  • [19:31:27] <bradfa> dunno details
  • [19:31:40] <bradfa> we have battery guy who knows his stuff
  • [19:31:45] <KotH> but then, i'm no battery specialist... and havent got my hands on any good book yet
  • [19:31:56] <bradfa> he wanted to get out of being battery guy, he failed
  • [19:32:04] <KotH> lol
  • [19:32:06] <KotH> poor guy
  • [19:32:43] <bradfa> customer wants 5 year shelf life followed by 5 year active service, fun :)
  • [19:32:50] <bradfa> non-replaceable battery
  • [19:33:08] <KotH> ouch
  • [19:33:25] * vvu|Log (~root@188.26.116.4) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  • [19:33:26] <bradfa> actually not that big of a deal for us, the -40C was more of a pain
  • [19:33:40] <bradfa> operate at -40C, not fail at -50C
  • [19:33:54] <KotH> LiSOCl ?
  • [19:34:00] <Spirilis> haha, Antarctica?
  • [19:34:13] <KotH> Spirilis: high mountains do the same
  • [19:34:17] <Spirilis> true
  • [19:34:41] <KotH> we have nearly a series production of wireless devices that are mounted above 3000m and have to run 2y w/o failure
  • [19:34:49] <bradfa> Spirilis, canada
  • [19:34:57] <Spirilis> ah
  • [19:35:07] <bradfa> apparently there's oil, or something
  • [19:35:10] <Spirilis> yeah
  • [19:35:12] <KotH> additional to the -40??C we also get fast temp cycles where temp can jump 40??C in an hour
  • [19:35:19] <Spirilis> lol aye
  • [19:35:25] <bradfa> KotH, don't know the chem myself but I know we looked at those
  • [19:35:30] <Spirilis> the sun's a pesky thing
  • [19:35:34] <bradfa> stupid sun
  • [19:36:02] <bradfa> http://what-if.xkcd.com/49/
  • [19:36:03] <KotH> sun on a vertical, south facing wall
  • [19:36:16] <mranostay> bradfa: rule #324 never be good at something you hate :)
  • [19:36:27] <bradfa> +1
  • [19:37:20] <bradfa> k, time to work again...
  • [19:37:42] <ptl> does anyone know what is the rationale for exposing male or female GPIO pins? Raspberry Pi, PCDuino and ODroid X2 GPIO's are all male; arduino and beaglebone are all female.
  • [19:38:13] <KotH> mranostay: i fail at taht already ^^'
  • [19:38:14] * vvu|Mobile (~quassel@78.97.104.166) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [19:38:19] <mranostay> cover those pins up!
  • [19:38:27] * KotH covers mranostay
  • [19:39:21] * ptl should be ashamed of his exposed pins?
  • [19:39:42] <KotH> ptl: as mranostay said, it covers the pins -> you cannot touch them -> less risk to get ESD into those pins and fry your device -> the sure sign of a well designed board
  • [19:39:43] <mrpackethead> the swiss have all teh fuses!!!
  • [19:39:46] <mrpackethead> gah
  • [19:40:23] <ssi> plus female headers are more mechanically robust
  • [19:40:26] <ssi> they can't get bent
  • [19:40:32] <ptl> so why rpi, pcduino and odroid x2 use male pins?
  • [19:40:32] <ssi> put the fragile part on the cheaper unit
  • [19:40:33] <mranostay> det-cord as well
  • [19:40:40] <ptl> *why does
  • [19:40:42] <KotH> ptl: on the other hand, male pins are usually easier to work with for electronic development and hacking
  • [19:40:48] <mranostay> are we talking the same thing?
  • [19:41:03] <ptl> hmm
  • [19:41:22] * mranostay holds back a few jokes
  • [19:41:27] <KotH> ptl: but as the rpi is for joe avarage who has no intention to attach any hardware to the rpi, i would have expected those pins to be female, to make the general use case more safe
  • [19:41:42] <KotH> ptl: ie, it shows again that the rpi guys didnt think much when they designed their device...
  • [19:41:49] <ssi> KotH: male headers are cheaper
  • [19:41:56] <KotH> ssi: that too
  • [19:42:31] <KotH> ssi: but at that volume the difference is marginal... beside you dont use high quality sockets, just the cheap chinese ones
  • [19:42:37] <ssi> true
  • [19:42:47] <mrpackethead> bradfa: www.thingsquare.com
  • [19:42:48] <KotH> leave out a switch and you save more
  • [19:42:59] <mrpackethead> " the internet of things "
  • [19:43:17] <KotH> mranostay: dont hold your jokes back! it's friday after all
  • [19:43:49] <mrpackethead> KotH: as exposed to expenive chinese ones?
  • [19:43:57] <mrpackethead> there is good in china as well
  • [19:44:14] <KotH> mrpackethead: sure
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  • [19:44:30] <KotH> mrpackethead: i didnt say there werent, just that you would buy them in china and choose the cheap ones :)
  • [19:44:48] <mrpackethead> why are there fusetrolls in switzerland
  • [19:44:54] <KotH> at least i would, if i would sell the rpi to make money
  • [19:45:08] * beaginner (5500c5b4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.0.197.180) has joined #beagle
  • [19:46:25] <KotH> beaginner: i know you are swiss and all... but you should get yourself an english dictionary
  • [19:47:49] <ssi> lol
  • [19:48:01] * falstaff_ (~quassel@62-12-243-158.pool.cyberlink.ch) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  • [19:48:08] <mdp> heh
  • [19:48:21] * Mode-M (~Null@2001:a60:245b:6401:cc23:12ae:2c1a:4e98) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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  • [19:49:34] <KotH> i think i scared him ^^'
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  • [19:51:40] <mdp> KotH, "get a dictionary or JIHAD!"
  • [19:51:45] <mdp> would be scarier
  • [19:52:18] * cib0 (~cib@p5DD2265F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
  • [19:52:19] <mdp> that would persuade me to have a stack of them on my desk
  • [19:55:56] <JaceP> i don't think there's an upper limit. just depends on how much smoke you intend to produce :D
  • [19:56:01] * b0o (~3461@70.32.35.174) has left #beaglebone
  • [19:56:26] <KotH> heh
  • [19:56:31] <KotH> ok, i try that next time :)
  • [19:57:16] <mrpackethead> does Jihad == BINGO ?
  • [19:58:25] * vvu|Log (~root@188.26.116.4) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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  • [20:00:11] <KotH> o_0
  • [20:00:39] <KotH> minicircuits sells a usb controlled 25MHz-6GHz signal generator for just 2k7USD
  • [20:01:16] <mranostay> KotH: send me one please
  • [20:01:30] <KotH> first i buy one myself
  • [20:02:48] * mranostay breaks into KotH's flat
  • [20:03:05] <bradfa> mrpackethead, neat, thanks for link
  • [20:03:06] * mranostay pins the crime on the greek guy
  • [20:03:31] <KotH> mranostay: i dont think you'd dare to break in into a heavily armed flat of a known terrorist
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  • [20:05:02] <bradfa> mrpackethead, alan_o does some 6lowpan, my company didn't get on that bandwagon (unfortunately)
  • [20:05:03] * vvu|Log (~root@188.26.116.4) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  • [20:05:32] <mrpackethead> bradfa: i was lookign at it the other day. hav'nt done anything other htan look
  • [20:05:44] <mrpackethead> but was thinking of buying some dev kit, becuase it looks very cool.
  • [20:05:50] * vvu|Log (~root@188.26.116.4) has joined #beagle
  • [20:05:58] <mrpackethead> the TI Soc with 2.4Gz radio was about 4.50
  • [20:06:04] <mrpackethead> i did'nt look up the Sub Ghz stuff
  • [20:06:20] <bradfa> 6lowpand is nice, other than the 127 byte frame size for 802.15.4 (unless you use the utility version which has larger MTU)
  • [20:06:31] <bradfa> s/6lowpand/6lowpan/
  • [20:07:00] <bradfa> mrpackethead, if you are interested in 6lowpan, start with 2.4 ghz, there's decent dev kits and contiki supports most of them
  • [20:07:25] <mrpackethead> the TI dev kit looked easy to start with
  • [20:07:30] <bradfa> 802.15.4 spec is pretty cheap, $15 I think I paid for all of it
  • [20:07:30] * _chase_1 (~a0271661@192.91.66.186) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
  • [20:07:42] <bradfa> some of it is free
  • [20:07:54] <bradfa> 6lowpan parts are ietf and free online
  • [20:08:12] <ptl> why are signal generators and oscilloscopes so expensive?
  • [20:08:14] <bradfa> contiki is the reference, for now
  • [20:08:16] <KotH> bradfa: walk into the next university library and get them all for free
  • [20:08:25] <KotH> ptl: they are not
  • [20:08:35] <bradfa> ptl, what counts as expensive to you?
  • [20:08:43] <bradfa> $100k is child's play :)
  • [20:08:50] <ptl> costing more than US$200
  • [20:08:53] <KotH> lol
  • [20:09:02] <bradfa> ptl, you can get a used rigol for less than that
  • [20:09:09] <bradfa> new rigol for slightly more
  • [20:09:10] <KotH> you wont even get a guess-o-meter for that money
  • [20:09:37] <bradfa> http://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/ds1000e/ds1052e/
  • [20:09:42] <ptl> when I pay US$ 200 for something it usually gets here for about US$ 500
  • [20:09:46] <KotH> a good scope is worth every rappen
  • [20:10:00] <bradfa> mid range rigols are quite nice these days
  • [20:10:04] <ptl> this one is famous and said to be good
  • [20:10:04] * vvu|Log (~root@188.26.116.4) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  • [20:10:05] <bradfa> in the $1-2k range
  • [20:10:18] <KotH> bradfa: for 2k i already get a quite good tek
  • [20:10:34] <KotH> bradfa: 400mhz, 4 channel...
  • [20:10:42] <ptl> anyway, it's just that they seem like simple circuits to me
  • [20:10:55] <ptl> is it because of the protection circuits and high frequency?
  • [20:11:03] * vvu|Log (~root@188.26.116.4) has joined #beagle
  • [20:11:05] <KotH> lol
  • [20:11:07] <KotH> no, they are not
  • [20:11:13] <bradfa> KotH, which one? 2000 or 3000 series?
  • [20:11:19] <KotH> bradfa: 2000 series
  • [20:11:29] <panto> bradfa, just got a rigol ds1102e for about 400e
  • [20:11:33] * bradfa had a 4000, 5000, and 7000 tek at Xerox
  • [20:11:52] <bradfa> panto, they are the AllWinner of scopes :)
  • [20:11:53] <KotH> ptl: building a scope that goes from 0 to 200MHz and accurately displays any signals within that bandwidth is not easy
  • [20:12:04] <KotH> bradfa: the 4000s are nice
  • [20:12:12] <ds2> for more fun, build a VNA
  • [20:12:21] <KotH> bradfa: i wouldnt mind having one...especially one with a 6GHz rf input ;)
  • [20:12:23] <bradfa> now if we want to talk spectrum analyzers, you pay for scan rate and noise levels :)
  • [20:12:31] <ptl> KotH: so the problem is the high frequency, right? because there are cheap meters like DSO-Quad and such
  • [20:12:35] <bradfa> $1k rigol scans slooooooooooow
  • [20:12:46] <KotH> ds2: ouh... i ... do..not..want...to..imagine...how...difficult...that...is
  • [20:12:51] <bradfa> $100k agilent scans fst (so fast don't need to type the a)
  • [20:12:54] <ds2> I want DC-6GHz, with a sweep of 10seconds, and band resolution of 0.1Hz
  • [20:12:55] <ds2> :)
  • [20:12:58] <KotH> ptl: no, the problem lies in accuracy
  • [20:13:10] <ptl> hmm
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  • [20:13:29] <ds2> it isn't so much scan rate as in scan rate + good freq resolution
  • [20:13:30] <KotH> ptl: you can easily get somethign to display... but if it does not bear any resemblance to reality, it's worthless
  • [20:13:34] * mdp doesn't see anybody answer why scopes are "expensive"
  • [20:13:36] * felipealmeida (~user@mvx-187-16-79-187.mundivox.com) has joined #beagle
  • [20:13:50] <KotH> mdp: because building them is not easy at all
  • [20:13:59] <mdp> +1
  • [20:14:07] <bradfa> a to d's are fun
  • [20:14:09] <KotH> and i said that before :)
  • [20:14:09] <mdp> the analog front-end is expensive
  • [20:14:18] <KotH> yeah..
  • [20:14:22] <mdp> right, the analog parts are expensive at those speeds
  • [20:14:25] * _chase_ (~a0271661@192.91.66.186) has joined #beagle
  • [20:14:32] <KotH> you can buy the ADCs quite "cheaply"
  • [20:14:35] <panto> bradfa, I don't care; for the stuff I want to do it's fine
  • [20:14:36] <ds2> expensive is relative
  • [20:14:38] <ssi> Windows 7 tek edition is expensive ;)
  • [20:14:40] <bradfa> panto, yes :)
  • [20:14:47] * krix (531afacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.26.250.203) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  • [20:14:47] <panto> plus it got me thinking
  • [20:14:57] <KotH> ssi: we have a tek scope that boots windows me :)
  • [20:14:58] <mdp> and the rigols and the cheap noname copies that have similar quality have the same analog frontend
  • [20:15:02] <panto> it's a POS blackfin based
  • [20:15:03] <ssi> I'm sure you do
  • [20:15:11] <mdp> go watch some eevblog teardown videos sometime
  • [20:15:12] <ssi> I only have scopes old enough to not run windows
  • [20:15:26] <bradfa> expensive test equipment all runs windows
  • [20:15:41] <ssi> that's what's wrong with the world today :)
  • [20:15:44] <ptl> If I ever buy one it will be the Owon SDS6062, it seems good enough and its screen is big.
  • [20:15:52] <mdp> ds2, people wonder why you can get 200MHz+ b/w for $50 I think
  • [20:15:55] <bradfa> fun way to see if a scope was built with care, normal trigger and plug in a USB memory stick. did it trigger?
  • [20:16:01] <ds2> correlary - Windows users are idiots who will pay through the nose w/o thinking.
  • [20:16:05] <mdp> s/can/can't/
  • [20:16:06] <ds2> :)
  • [20:16:11] <KotH> mdp: if you want to go cheap, there is a 40usd handhald scope, that does 40MHz by using questionable analog frontend and overclocking a 20MHz speced DAC :)
  • [20:16:20] <mdp> KotH, yes, I know ;)
  • [20:16:21] <ds2> mdp: actually, you can... used HP/Tek scopes can be had in that price range
  • [20:16:28] <mdp> ds2, that's what I have ;)
  • [20:16:35] <ssi> I've got a tds420A and a tds320A
  • [20:16:36] * bkearns (~bkearns@216-75-239-130.static.wiline.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
  • [20:16:39] <mdp> actually have an old 20mhz analog ;)
  • [20:16:46] <ssi> the 420's front panel is getting flaky
  • [20:16:52] <KotH> mdp: i beat that
  • [20:17:00] <KotH> mdp: 50MHz, 2ch, tek :)
  • [20:17:09] * MrMobius (~Joey@194.176.111.154) has joined #beagle
  • [20:17:15] <mdp> but "people" wonder why new DSOs aren't down in that range..because they forget that only digital stuff is cheap...and _commodity_ analog components
  • [20:17:17] <KotH> mint condition, nontheless
  • [20:17:36] <ssi> mdp: that and there's just no volume in quality analog hardware
  • [20:17:39] <ds2> people really shouldn't be using DSO's at those bw's without a lot more understanding
  • [20:17:41] <mdp> KotH, I'm holding out for some changes in the DSO market before going better
  • [20:17:45] <ssi> low volume = expensive
  • [20:17:47] <mdp> ssi, exactly
  • [20:17:54] <KotH> mdp: not to mention that good scopes have an OCXO that itself costs 50-100USD
  • [20:18:03] <KotH> at volume prices
  • [20:18:08] <mdp> yup
  • [20:18:33] <ssi> you think scopes are high, price spectrum analyzers :/
  • [20:18:35] <ds2> that's cheap, higher end SA's have those rare earth osc time bases
  • [20:18:43] <ssi> lul
  • [20:18:45] <mdp> and like ds2 says, it's all relative.
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  • [20:19:10] <KotH> ds2: rare earth?
  • [20:19:10] <mdp> the scope and logic analyzer people use for uC stuff is super accessible price-wise for the hobbyist
  • [20:19:17] <ds2> i remember being shown a cube the size of 3 BBBs stacked that costs more then a low end car
  • [20:19:20] <KotH> ds2: i dont know of any oscillator made of rare earth
  • [20:19:24] <ds2> KotH: R-something
  • [20:19:27] <mdp> take a step up to a rigol for some more serious hobbyist work
  • [20:19:41] <ds2> that's the material
  • [20:19:41] <KotH> ds2: rubidium?
  • [20:19:45] * Tartarus_ (~trini@cpe-065-184-250-089.ec.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  • [20:19:47] <bradfa> dirt?
  • [20:19:50] <ds2> KotH: that sounds about right
  • [20:19:52] * MrM0bius (~Joey@194.176.111.159) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  • [20:20:03] <KotH> ds2: that's not a rare earth... that's an alkali metal :)
  • [20:20:04] <mdp> next people will complain that building airplanes is expensive
  • [20:20:12] <ptl> ok
  • [20:20:13] <ds2> the unit I saw was about 3 BBB stacked in a metal canister
  • [20:20:16] <mru> mdp: it is!
  • [20:20:19] <ptl> I promise not to bich anymore about scopes
  • [20:20:19] <ds2> KotH: eh?
  • [20:20:19] <ptl> :P
  • [20:20:20] <mdp> mru, no!
  • [20:20:22] <ptl> *bitch
  • [20:20:28] <mdp> mru, trick leading question
  • [20:20:30] <ptl> the price is right
  • [20:20:31] <mdp> ;)
  • [20:20:33] <KotH> ds2: and i'd be surprised to see a Rb standard in a scope... it doesnt make much sense
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  • [20:20:57] <mru> btw, the british airways business class magazine has a 'rare earth element of the month' column
  • [20:21:00] <ds2> KotH: they were pulls from a rack mount SA
  • [20:21:07] <KotH> ds2: have a look at the oscilloquartz 8607
  • [20:21:24] <ds2> guess it is a an akali metal
  • [20:21:28] <mdp> mru, business class magazine..I will never see that one ;)
  • [20:21:32] <KotH> ds2: for the low end variant, you get a good used car, for the high end variant you can buy a mid sized sedan
  • [20:21:35] <KotH> ds2: new
  • [20:21:47] * davest1 (Adium@nat/intel/x-zvlvmcgzuuvzfufc) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
  • [20:21:56] <mru> mdp: it's usually in the frontmost rows of economy too
  • [20:22:01] <mru> movable curtain and all that
  • [20:22:06] <mdp> heh
  • [20:22:10] <KotH> ds2: for an SA it makes even less sense
  • [20:22:11] <mdp> darn riffraff
  • [20:22:21] <KotH> ds2: a quartz has less noise than a Rb
  • [20:22:24] <mru> I don't usually fly business class
  • [20:22:36] <ds2> KotH: *shrug* have a friend in the business and he pulled them out of a SA
  • [20:22:48] <KotH> ds2: weird
  • [20:22:57] <ds2> it was a big rack mounted one
  • [20:22:57] <KotH> ds2: if he pulls out more, i'd be interested :)
  • [20:23:03] <KotH> oh..
  • [20:23:07] <ds2> might have been from the 70's or 80's era
  • [20:23:08] <KotH> a complete measurement system
  • [20:23:10] <ds2> heheh
  • [20:23:13] <KotH> ok, then it makes sense
  • [20:23:27] <KotH> probably 90s
  • [20:23:35] <KotH> Rbs were horribly expensive until recently
  • [20:23:43] <KotH> basically inexistent earlier
  • [20:23:51] <mdp> mru, only managed it once from beijing back to the states..I owe the friend that gave me the upgrade about 500 beers for that
  • [20:23:51] <ds2> oh
  • [20:24:28] <mru> I've only flown proper longhaul business class as upgrade from premium economy
  • [20:24:28] <KotH> ds2: these days you get cheap Rb on ebay for <100usd
  • [20:24:38] <KotH> ds2: though these one have horrible phase noise
  • [20:25:13] <ds2> oh
  • [20:25:33] <KotH> ptl: to put things into perspective: the probes for a good scope cost about 1000-3000USD... each
  • [20:25:50] <KotH> ptl: and these things are real black magic!
  • [20:25:56] * astralab is now known as 1JTAABTBV
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  • [20:26:02] <mdp> mru, it ruined me for the normal coach longhaul flights :(
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  • [20:26:23] <KotH> poor mdp
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  • [20:26:30] <KotH> mdp: do you want some chocolate?
  • [20:26:35] <mdp> yes
  • [20:26:36] * thorsten_ (543d2dcc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.61.45.204) has joined #beagle
  • [20:26:38] <mdp> and a cookie
  • [20:26:47] <KotH> mdp: ok, you can have some next time we meet
  • [20:26:53] <mdp> very good
  • [20:27:00] * vvu|Log (~root@188.26.116.4) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
  • [20:27:06] * mdp is reminded of the need to take some elce action
  • [20:27:28] <mru> mdp: it's easy to get used to a few extra comforts
  • [20:27:36] <mdp> too bad everything can be invented on BBB has already been invented
  • [20:28:32] <Funcan> Hi. On the beagle bone black, assuming I want to use HDMI, host usb, ethernet and the SD card, how many GPIOs do I have free? I'm having trouble making sense of the datasheet
  • [20:28:32] <KotH> mdp: show how to use the bbb as an ultra precise ntp server with less than 10ns uncertainty
  • [20:28:51] <KotH> mdp: for bonus points, implement ieee1588
  • [20:28:53] * Ceriand (~ceriand@unaffiliated/ceriand) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  • [20:29:05] <mdp> mru, indeed. one thing I noted was, on united biz class on that 777, my shoulder width was too wide to lie flat in the biz class unit. I was surprised.
  • [20:29:25] <mdp> mru, always something to complain about
  • [20:29:44] <Funcan> Just trying to get some idea of how many I've got while I start working out how many peripherals I can drive...
  • [20:30:01] <mdp> KotH, how about someting interesting? ;)
  • [20:30:20] <KotH> mdp: that would be actually quite interesting, and is not easily done :)
  • [20:30:34] <KotH> mdp: and it would ensure time-nuts buying the bbb for generations to come
  • [20:30:35] <mdp> I'm gonna let you do that one
  • [20:30:40] <KotH> hehe
  • [20:30:55] <KotH> it's planned.. after i build my own gpsdo
  • [20:31:04] <mdp> or you can hope for somebody else to kang it
  • [20:31:07] <KotH> and maybe after inventing the phaser
  • [20:31:25] <KotH> i doubt
  • [20:31:36] <mdp> phaser first or the blaster with individual energy bolts?
  • [20:31:40] <KotH> most of these guys are buying rpi and wonder why its performance is so bad
  • [20:31:44] <mdp> I'm never sure which should be invented first
  • [20:31:58] <KotH> phaser... you need to be able to make a stone fire
  • [20:33:15] <mdp> an old boy scout trick to start a fire with a phaser
  • [20:33:28] <KotH> no camping is complete w/o a stone fire
  • [20:33:33] <mdp> indeed
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  • [20:34:32] <KotH> anyways..gtg and get some sleep.. have to be present at some code reveiw session tomorrow... for code i have never seen before...
  • [20:34:44] <woglinde> nite koth
  • [20:34:58] <woglinde> hm its dark enough
  • [20:35:04] <KotH> night boys, girls, trolls and woglindes
  • [20:35:04] <thorsten_> I tried to boot my BBB A5A, from uSD-Card. Didn't work. Now I wanted to go back to normal boot, but my BBB halts Booting after 3 LEDs (That is, if I read it right, before reading the internal Memory). Anybody got a clue how to force reading the memory (or did I just brick it?)
  • [20:35:11] <woglinde> so I can dumb the christmas tree
  • [20:35:18] <KotH> lol
  • [20:35:23] <KotH> woglinde: burn it!
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  • [20:35:33] <KotH> woglinde: by now it should burn very well
  • [20:35:40] <woglinde> na
  • [20:35:49] <woglinde> its green after all
  • [20:36:18] <mdp> #burnallthethings
  • [20:37:26] <panto> thorsten_, tried reflashing it?
  • [20:37:27] <Shadyman> thorsten_: unplug the memorycard?
  • [20:37:44] <thorsten_> It's out
  • [20:37:54] <Shadyman> :/
  • [20:38:04] <Shadyman> what panto said.
  • [20:38:19] * mrpackethead (~mrpacketh@147.200.109.203.static.cust.vf.net.nz) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [20:38:26] <thorsten_> Will try to reflash it.
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  • [20:43:56] <thorsten_> flashing the internal memmory of a BBB: Will the Powersuply by usb be enoug?
  • [20:46:19] * tema (~tema@178-16-155-142.obit.ru) has joined #beagle
  • [20:47:25] <panto> should be
  • [20:47:42] <m_billybob> wow you're up late today panto
  • [20:47:48] <m_billybob> afternoon btw
  • [20:48:14] <_troll_> hi m_billybob
  • [20:48:37] * m_billybob waves
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  • [20:48:56] <m_billybob> time to get dirty with wordpress i guess, lots to blog on.
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  • [20:49:36] <_troll_> wordpress is evil but it works
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  • [20:49:48] <m_billybob> make life easier in some respects.
  • [20:49:55] <woglinde> hm it fit into bio trashbin
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  • [20:51:05] <panto> hi m_billybob
  • [20:51:11] <panto> I keep weird hours
  • [20:51:18] <panto> (but not as weird as I used to)
  • [20:53:56] <_troll_> your hours are not as weird as you?
  • [20:54:23] <panto> probably
  • [20:54:40] <thorsten_> Thanks, good night!
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  • [21:03:09] <panto> g'night
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  • [21:33:38] <Jose__> Hia there
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  • [21:36:32] <Jose__> I was asking my self wich projects are for Beagleboard Black with Spotify? I want to do something like http://www.mopidy.com/ for raspi but with Bb
  • [21:37:07] <mru> does the hw matter?
  • [21:37:25] * uii (~uii@mnch-5d86f6f6.pool.mediaWays.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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  • [21:39:51] <Jose__> Im just going to do my first project in this field...
  • [21:40:19] <woglinde> so hw does not matter
  • [21:40:57] <Jose__> I was going to use a DAC USB I have, and they have told me that the Raspi USB output has many problems with this, so some people recomend me BBB as is faster
  • [21:41:26] <mru> why not use hdmi?
  • [21:41:44] <Jose__> yes that was my first question
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  • [21:42:13] <mru> that requires an hdmi receiver of course
  • [21:42:25] * ka6sox (ka6sox@nasadmin/ka6sox) has joined #beagle
  • [21:42:33] <Jose__> I told them what happen if I buy a HDMI Decoder and take out just teh audio as I want
  • [21:43:39] <Jose__> This was teh answer I had about HDMI in a Hi Fi geeks forum: "I think switching to HDMI instead of USB might be throwing the baby out with the bath water. If your DAC doesn't work with the Raspberry Pi, then don't use a Raspberry Pi. Using HDMI instead of USB because USB is broken is the wrong way to go in my opinion. As far as I can see if the Raspberry Pi works with the USB DAC or USB speakers (like my B&W MM1s) that you want to use
  • [21:43:48] <Jose__> >>But mostly the USB support for async USB dacs and high res tracks doesn't work yet. I've been trying out a BeagleBone Black board recently and I think that might be better for USB audio than the Pi, from my experience so far. It costs about the same (ie not much), and so it is quite easy to try both and experiment."
  • [21:44:42] <Jose__> I'm dont understand a shit abour Hi FIi, but this experiment will be for putting it in my Bar, so I will need high quality
  • [21:44:43] <mru> it all comes down to how you intend to play back the sound in the end
  • [21:44:55] * woglinde (~henning@g229047009.adsl.alicedsl.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  • [21:45:06] <mru> do you have an av receiver with hdmi inputs?
  • [21:45:12] * honschu_ (~honschu@shackspace/j4fun) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  • [21:45:26] <Jose__> just av
  • [21:48:12] <Jose__> But i just dont know about BBB, and coming arround here to understand a little. I understand that any software project of Raspi as Mopidy or Raspyfi it will be OK in a BB no? Or it works in another way?
  • [21:48:53] <mru> cpu-wise anything that runs on rpi can run on the beagle
  • [21:49:06] <mru> the rpi has a more powerful gpu and video processor
  • [21:49:24] <Jose__> I wont do any video project
  • [21:49:49] <Jose__> just sound, and I dont know.. meybe other interesting things
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  • [21:50:04] <mru> the beagle cpu is considerably faster
  • [21:51:14] <Jose__> I what quality sense that will be better for streaming music? I understand thet the problem in raspi is like a USB port issue (something in the kernel I suppose...dont know much about tech details)
  • [21:52:27] <mru> the rpi usb can't work reliably in linux
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  • [22:06:21] <robertjw> any ideas why this hub does not work on the beaglebone black: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005BLO21Q/
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  • [22:06:47] <robertjw> it even claims to be backward compatible with usb 1.1
  • [22:07:51] <mranostay> Jose__: hardware issue too iirc
  • [22:08:10] <mru> the rpi is a hardware issue, yes
  • [22:09:29] <mranostay> +1
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  • [22:15:43] <Crofton|work> oh god, the klaus video made me lol
  • [22:16:04] <mru> that's ancient
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  • [22:16:32] <mranostay> so is Crofton|work
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  • [22:36:56] <Jose__> Ok, thank you for your help!
  • [22:37:14] <Jose__> Conclusion: buy a BBB
  • [22:39:53] <kfoltman_> Well, BBB has better USB (allegedly) and much faster FPU if you can use it
  • [22:40:27] <kfoltman_> But only one port
  • [22:40:41] <mru> rpi also has only one usb port
  • [22:40:44] <mru> and it doesn't work
  • [22:40:50] <mranostay> so zero
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  • [22:51:13] <mranostay> ka6sox: OMG PONIES^H^H^H^H^H^UNICORNS
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  • [22:51:50] <ka6sox> mranostay, I would not have believed it if I hadn't held it my own 2 hands...
  • [22:52:35] <ka6sox> mru, +1 for the expected :)
  • [22:53:13] <mru> I aim to please
  • [22:53:25] <mru> unspecified whom
  • [22:53:33] <mranostay> i was going to say...
  • [22:54:15] <pru_evto> rpi usb port doesn't work?
  • [22:54:20] <pru_evto> wha?
  • [22:55:06] <Jose__> yes, rpi has 2 usb port, thats nice. Why u say don't work?
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  • [22:59:27] <pru_evto> (mru said so)
  • [22:59:54] * modmaker (~ncbas@63-11.bbned.dsl.internl.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  • [22:59:55] <mru> it has one port and an onboard hub
  • [23:00:09] <mru> and it's unreliable
  • [23:00:14] <mru> everybody knows that
  • [23:00:39] * emilepetrone (~emilepetr@204.144.56.100) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [23:05:06] <Jose__> if in a rpi I put a wifi adapter in un port and a DAC USB in the other. You say that the music wont sound? or sound with problems?
  • [23:05:10] * ynezz (ynezz@ibawizard.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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  • [23:05:54] <bleeter> Jose__: it's likely it'll buffer under/overrun and cause resets etc.
  • [23:06:12] <mru> the usb controller drops frames
  • [23:06:27] <mru> because linux can't always service interrupts fast enough
  • [23:06:49] <bleeter> though having said that, mate of mine who uses an RPi to log his weather station over USB says that in the past few weeks it's stopped resetting like mad, he's turned the watchdog off. so it *might* be 'fixed' but /shrug
  • [23:07:12] <mru> the chip was never meant to run linux
  • [23:07:38] <bleeter> that
  • [23:08:08] <mru> the am335x is
  • [23:10:03] <mru> logging weather readings is probably low enough load that it rarely fails
  • [23:11:40] <bleeter> he's doing realtime logging stuffs, still can't do it all on the RPi (live multiple js graphs etc put a real strain on it). Pretty sure he's going to get some BBB's
  • [23:11:45] <Mistobaan> anyone has successfully installed ubuntu on an SDcard using macosx ?
  • [23:12:54] <bleeter> mru: fwiw I'm sorta hoping to get it going on my BBB with a 4.3" touchscreen, should be fun :) http://weather.bha.al/ (my friend's station)
  • [23:12:57] * emilepetrone (~emilepetr@204.144.56.100) has joined #beagle
  • [23:13:09] <pru_evto> "<mru> because linux can't always service interrupts fast enough"
  • [23:13:18] <pru_evto> whaa? sounds like a bad driver.
  • [23:13:21] * emilepetrone (~emilepetr@204.144.56.100) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [23:13:23] <mru> no
  • [23:13:39] <mru> the hw has insane demands
  • [23:13:41] <Jose__> you know what, I will buy both, a BBB and a rspi
  • [23:13:47] <mru> and linux is not an rtos
  • [23:13:53] <pru_evto> drivers should assume that interrupts will be missed, because linux *doesn't* guarantee that an interrupt will be caught.
  • [23:13:57] <pru_evto> that's linux device driver 101
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  • [23:14:24] <mru> that's not the issue
  • [23:14:45] <pru_evto> cpu just isn't fast enough?
  • [23:14:53] <mru> if the interrupt is not taken _and handled_ within something like 1 ms the usb hw drops the frame
  • [23:15:02] * anshu (~arivendu@66.196.248.130) has joined #beagle
  • [23:15:04] <mru> and it generates one interrupt per microframe
  • [23:15:31] <mru> it's almost but not quite bitbanging
  • [23:15:31] <Jose__> and if u use a USB HUB with power charge
  • [23:15:35] <pru_evto> ...isn't that a buffer problem then?
  • [23:15:35] <Jose__> ?
  • [23:15:37] * budg (~budg@49.176.103.138) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  • [23:15:47] <mru> pru_evto: tell that to the people who designed the usb controller
  • [23:15:54] <pru_evto> hahah
  • [23:15:54] <mru> there is no sw fix
  • [23:16:03] <mru> other than running an rtos of course
  • [23:16:34] <mru> hell, the arm was probably put there just to handle those interrupts
  • [23:16:48] <pru_evto> 1ms is pretty nutty.
  • [23:17:06] * ynezz (ynezz@ibawizard.net) has joined #beagle
  • [23:17:13] <mru> not for an rtos doing nothing else
  • [23:17:16] <pru_evto> to start throwing data away at least.
  • [23:18:17] <mru> nobody said it wasn't nutty to run linux on that hw
  • [23:19:27] <kfoltman_> pru_evto: 1ms is doable, maybe not 100% of the time, but 99.9%
  • [23:20:08] <Mistobaan> I am trying to boot from the sd card. but is seems that the usr01 light goes on at the beginning and then stops blinking. Any Suggestions ?
  • [23:21:02] <kfoltman_> the DSP code in calfbox has about 0.9ms time slot to run all the synthesis/effects/MIDI routing, and I get a warning if it misses a deadline - and I seldom get any warnings
  • [23:21:04] <pru_evto> Mistobaan: did you check to see if your board is in a time vortex? could be running very slow as a result.
  • [23:21:08] * emilepetrone (~emilepetr@204.144.56.100) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [23:21:21] <kfoltman_> and that's linux and userspace
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  • [23:23:16] <bleeter> also, the ethernet is on the same chip as the USB. Not that I've tried, but I suspect under a little network and USB load the thing would collapse in a screaming heap.
  • [23:23:33] <mru> that's what the internets say it does
  • [23:23:51] <bleeter> (by "little" I mean... an amount I have no idea what of 'coz I'm too lazy to test myself)
  • [23:23:55] * phantoxeD (destroy@a89-152-137-111.cpe.netcabo.pt) has joined #beagle
  • [23:23:55] <kfoltman_> well, isn't BBB running the CPU, ethernet and USB on the same chip? :P
  • [23:23:57] <bleeter> mru: had only guessed :)
  • [23:24:36] <bleeter> kfoltman_: CPU? On a chip?! MADNESS!
  • [23:25:02] <Jose__> DONE, 1 raspi and a BBB shipping to my house. Buy it in mcmelectronics.com with other few stuff for the experiment
  • [23:25:07] <kfoltman_> bleeter: if it's not discrete transistors, it doesn't count!
  • [23:25:27] <kfoltman_> raspi for full-HD HDMI, BBB for everything else ;)
  • [23:25:36] <mru> Jose__: let us know how it goes
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  • [23:26:02] <Jose__> I also buy a FiiO E07K (DAC/amp USB)
  • [23:26:20] <Jose__> I will tried the same exactly experimento with both
  • [23:26:53] <mranostay> kfoltman_: er you know the bbb has HDMI out right?
  • [23:26:57] * mastiff (62d40990@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.212.9.144) has joined #beagle
  • [23:27:04] <kfoltman_> mranostay: emphasis on "full HD"
  • [23:27:07] * stamina (~stamina@140-074-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  • [23:27:09] <kfoltman_> as in 1080p :P
  • [23:27:25] <Jose__> and see if a have different quality of sounds in my hifi headphones, in normal deskpot speakers, and in my bar sound system
  • [23:27:39] <mru> I bet it can't do 4k
  • [23:27:41] <kfoltman_> mranostay: I do use bbb's HDMI output (hell, bought a HDMI monitor specifically for that)
  • [23:28:29] * budg (~budg@49.176.103.138) has joined #beagle
  • [23:28:35] <mranostay> the rpi can't do 1080p
  • [23:28:38] <kfoltman_> or at least, did use it, when starting - now I don't do anything with it that would require anything better than serial console or ssh
  • [23:28:48] * ds2 (noinf@netblock-66-245-251-24.dslextreme.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  • [23:29:20] <kfoltman_> mranostay: "14 HDMI resolutions from 640??350 to 1920??1200 plus various PAL and NTSC standards" says wikipedia
  • [23:29:34] <Jose__> in mcmelectronics.com they dont sell BBB cases.. :(
  • [23:30:06] <kfoltman_> Jose__: case is not a problem, but better get a 5V power supply and a 3.3V USB-TTL serial adapter
  • [23:30:18] <kfoltman_> a *good* 5V power supply (preferably >2A)
  • [23:30:46] <pru_evto> Jose__: just use an altoids container :D
  • [23:30:55] <pru_evto> that's why it has rounded edges.
  • [23:31:05] <mru> no joke
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  • [23:31:44] <kfoltman_> altoids container? is it some US thing? :P
  • [23:31:54] <Jose__> to late for the 3.3V USB-TTL serial adapter ... I already pay
  • [23:32:13] <kfoltman_> Jose__: get one on ebay or something... it's a must-have, pretty much
  • [23:32:13] <bleeter> kfoltman_: sounds like an STD to me
  • [23:32:25] <kfoltman_> Jose: or at least "very good to have" in case something goes wrong
  • [23:32:33] <Jose__> and the 5V power suply... I have here almost 10 blackberry powersuppliers
  • [23:32:38] * krajo1 (~krajo1@ip4-83-240-125-22.cust.nbox.cz) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
  • [23:32:42] <bleeter> Jose__: USB-TTL adapters also very handy if you get in to #openwrt type foo on your routers
  • [23:33:02] <kfoltman_> Jose__: if it's less than 1A, then it may be insufficient
  • [23:33:17] * mhaberler (~mhaberler@macbook.stiwoll.mah.priv.at) Quit (Quit: mhaberler)
  • [23:33:18] <kfoltman_> Jose__: and no matter what happens, DO NOT DO opkg upgrade !!!
  • [23:33:44] <pru_evto> do not use the tools provided by the distribution to manage software! >:-(
  • [23:35:04] <Jose__> u are talking about the BBB or the rpi no?
  • [23:35:17] <kfoltman_> Jose__: BBB... rpi is not even worth talking about ;)
  • [23:35:36] * bleeter idly wonders why the BBB FAQ doesn't mention 'DO NOT DO opkg upgrade !!!'
  • [23:36:25] <Jose__> Just buy some other things, but the peripherical for BBB will be this ones:
  • [23:36:29] <Jose__> 1- http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/83-14223&utm_source=ExactTarget&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ConfirmEmail
  • [23:36:36] <Jose__> 2- http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/831-2761&utm_source=ExactTarget&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ConfirmEmail
  • [23:36:44] <Jose__> and 3- http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/80-8515&utm_source=ExactTarget&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ConfirmEmail
  • [23:37:05] <Jose__> I will conquer the world with that
  • [23:38:24] <Jose__> and also download this book http://www.dummies.com/store/product/Python-For-Dummies.productCd-0471778648.html as homework while waiting to the package arrive home.
  • [23:38:57] <Jose__> I live in Honduras... and I think I will be the only guy in all this country with a BBB. I can bet my ass.
  • [23:39:16] <mranostay> and spamming too
  • [23:39:46] <Jose__> o_O
  • [23:40:42] <kfoltman_> bleeter: it's a rite of passage, of sorts
  • [23:41:39] <bleeter> kfoltman_: oic. I guess it's a good excuse to find out if my new usb-ttl cable actually works.
  • [23:42:08] * helpppp (4f96e0b8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.150.224.184) has joined #beagle
  • [23:42:15] <helpppp> hello
  • [23:42:36] <helpppp> what is the new in the new version of firware for beaglebone black?
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  • [23:42:44] * ds2 (noinf@netblock-66-245-251-24.dslextreme.com) has joined #beagle
  • [23:42:49] <mranostay> helpppp: ponies
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  • [23:43:17] <mastiff> Dude that's the password not the version number.
  • [23:43:17] <mru> the release notes have been updated
  • [23:43:21] <helpppp> what is the new in the last imagen for bealgleboar black?
  • [23:43:38] <helpppp> mru where is the relese notes?
  • [23:43:40] <Desert> i have a Beaglebone Black, does the included distro has OpengL support? Qt5 builds?
  • [23:45:31] <helpppp> hello?
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  • [23:48:04] <Jose__> Well, thx u all <mru>, <kfoltman_>,<pru_evto>, I will post in the BB>Audio Google Group my advances and different research about both USB audio difference.
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  • [23:59:15] <pru_evto> don't thank me. i'm mostly a troll.
  • [23:59:45] <_troll_> emphasis on mostly
  • [23:59:57] <mranostay> heh