• [00:00:30] <acidfoo> I feel like there is conspiracies among the embedded board designer, why the heck there is no _low cost_ board with 2 ethernet port !
  • [00:00:33] <acidfoo> :(
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  • [00:03:29] <Shadyman> acidfoo: So plug in a USB ethernet adapter?
  • [00:03:32] <Shadyman> :/
  • [00:03:51] * fooblya_monad (~abaddon@37.215.230.67) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  • [00:03:55] <acidfoo> yes, but, the thing is that they cost almost the same price as the board itself :P (the usb to ethernet adapter)
  • [00:04:26] <airdamien> acidfoo, why do you need dual ether?
  • [00:04:34] <Shadyman> acidfoo: They probably aren't included because not many people would use two ethernet ports, and it would just add cost for everyone else.
  • [00:05:04] <noobish_> anybody know how many ticks it takes the pru to access shared/local memory?
  • [00:05:18] <acidfoo> airdamien, for cool stuf like bridge firewall, tunnel appliance for industrial machine, etc
  • [00:05:26] <noobish_> err, i guess the whole timing characteristics of lbbo and sbbo
  • [00:05:29] <Shadyman> acidfoo: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/New-USB-2-0-to-RJ45-LAN-Ethernet-Network-Adapter-for-Apple-PC-Mac-/350776878946 ?
  • [00:06:02] <airdamien> gotta add the kernel driver for the apple adapter to work, it does work though
  • [00:06:07] <acidfoo> starting bid ;P
  • [00:06:09] <airdamien> acidfoo, what about thise
  • [00:06:10] <airdamien> https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/projects/335638/posts/417711/image-218494-full.jpg?1362209232
  • [00:06:19] <airdamien> dual gigabit
  • [00:06:22] <airdamien> am335x
  • [00:06:30] <Shadyman> acidfoo: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Ethernet-Port-10-100Mbps-USB-to-RJ45-LAN-External-Network-Card-Adapter-Connector-/171018056263
  • [00:06:40] <Shadyman> $2.75, free shipping
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  • [00:07:05] <acidfoo> airdamien, that look pretty neat
  • [00:07:09] <noobish_> you'd think they'd put it in the pru documentation.
  • [00:07:13] <acidfoo> Shadyman, yeah not bad at all !
  • [00:07:26] <Shadyman> acidfoo: Quality is suspect, but hey, if it works..
  • [00:07:27] <noobish_> since it's for, you know, real time control, where timing is important.
  • [00:07:30] <airdamien> https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/projects/335638/posts/405474/image-211889-full.jpg?1360803221
  • [00:07:36] <acidfoo> airdamien, whats the project name for that board
  • [00:07:40] <airdamien> adtrap
  • [00:07:47] <airdamien> my baby :D
  • [00:08:16] <acidfoo> airdamien, you designed it ?
  • [00:08:45] <airdamien> sorta
  • [00:08:56] <acidfoo> i'd like to have the board, not the product =)
  • [00:09:01] <airdamien> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/600284081/adtrap-the-internet-is-yours-again/posts
  • [00:09:34] <airdamien> yeah, we were stuck with not being able to find dual gigabit boards
  • [00:09:44] <airdamien> so we designed our own
  • [00:09:50] <acidfoo> airdamien, and you ask me why I want 2ethernets port ? :P
  • [00:09:57] <Shadyman> airdamien: That grey ethernet cable is one funky thing.
  • [00:10:03] <acidfoo> the fun begin when you have 2ethernet port =)
  • [00:10:22] <airdamien> wasn't sure if you were looking for more than a sbc
  • [00:10:32] <airdamien> or like a beagleboard with pins exposed
  • [00:10:38] <acidfoo> ok :)
  • [00:10:47] <acidfoo> well Id prefer something with 2 ethernet port already on it
  • [00:10:59] <acidfoo> the soekris, the alix and the embeddedarm are a bit expensive
  • [00:11:05] <airdamien> yeah, and the usb ethernets start choking up I've found
  • [00:11:10] <acidfoo> but the beagleboard and the raspberrypi are quite powerfull for their price
  • [00:11:14] <acidfoo> but only one ethernet :/
  • [00:11:19] <acidfoo> gumstix is expensive also
  • [00:11:48] <acidfoo> you board look very nice
  • [00:11:50] <airdamien> yeah, we're not cheap on the board
  • [00:12:01] <acidfoo> yeah, but still it look nice ;)
  • [00:12:48] <acidfoo> nice project
  • [00:13:02] <airdamien> lolthx, that's a jtag/usb console port on it too
  • [00:13:35] <airdamien> I come from old school unix admin.. so having a console on it was important for me
  • [00:13:44] <acidfoo> i'm from that world too
  • [00:15:45] <mranostay> old people geez
  • [00:15:53] <airdamien> lol
  • [00:15:56] <mranostay> need some youth in this channel :P
  • [00:15:57] <airdamien> ...only 30
  • [00:16:09] <airdamien> started admin'ing when I was 14
  • [00:16:13] <mranostay> one foot in the grave
  • [00:16:24] <acidfoo> airdamien, the blue board I see at 00:56 http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/600284081/adtrap-the-internet-is-yours-again
  • [00:16:31] <tb01110100> mranostay: I'm 13.
  • [00:16:36] <airdamien> ignore that blue board
  • [00:16:40] <acidfoo> airdamien, what is it :P
  • [00:16:51] <airdamien> it's an at91sam board
  • [00:16:54] <rbarris> anyone ever hacked something like a gigabit router ? I wonder how much intelligence is in there
  • [00:17:32] <airdamien> can't remember the name of it now
  • [00:17:34] <airdamien> trying to find it
  • [00:17:43] <acidfoo> it comes with the 2 eth port ?
  • [00:18:26] <airdamien> yeah, but the thing sucked
  • [00:18:33] <airdamien> why we ended up with our own board
  • [00:18:51] <airdamien> http://www.armdevs.com/NET-SAM9X25.html
  • [00:18:52] <acidfoo> i'm still curious
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  • [00:19:20] <airdamien> where are you based out of?
  • [00:19:39] <acidfoo> quebec
  • [00:19:39] <airdamien> oh, and it's almost as much money as our board :D
  • [00:19:41] <acidfoo> canada
  • [00:19:59] <airdamien> palo alto.. was gonan say I'll hand you one if you're local
  • [00:20:07] <acidfoo> a bit far :)
  • [00:23:26] <acidfoo> well, less expensive than that old thing; http://soekris.com/products/net4501-1/net4501-30-board.html
  • [00:24:09] <rbarris> dual 10/100
  • [00:24:42] <airdamien> too much money for a 486
  • [00:25:06] <airdamien> 64mb/ram
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  • [00:25:16] <Turl> hm, the gsoc wysiwyg editor is pretty annoying :/
  • [00:25:48] <Shadyman> Also, http://cuteoverload.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/yo-sup-cat-high-five.gif
  • [00:25:49] <calculus> airdamien: you can hand me one, menlo park at the moment
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  • [00:29:38] <acidfoo> airdamien, i like the "open" and "hackable" part of the video... talking about the "blue" board =)
  • [00:29:42] <acidfoo> but... what about the new board :P
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  • [00:30:18] <airdamien> serial console and the image is on mmc
  • [00:30:34] <airdamien> from there you can open it up and do anything
  • [00:30:47] <acidfoo> cool
  • [00:30:48] <airdamien> pretty much none of our customers cared about the pins
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  • [00:31:24] <airdamien> and I figured if they wanted things like wifi/xbee, they're pretty easily procured through usb dongles
  • [00:31:44] <acidfoo> yeah
  • [00:33:48] <airdamien> btw, it's running Arch Linux
  • [00:34:00] <acidfoo> :)
  • [00:34:07] <airdamien> really easy to switch between root fs images
  • [00:34:12] <calculus> so it has dual gigabit and acts as hotspot?
  • [00:34:42] <airdamien> no wireless onboard, can add wifi dongles and the sw packages
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  • [00:44:59] <rmull> Hey, can any one comment on the state of the 3D engine of the beaglebone black? Is it a binary blob?
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  • [00:47:21] <calculus> rmull: more than likely it will be a blob
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  • [00:54:40] <rmull> calculus: okay, thanks.
  • [00:55:16] <rbarris> I'm curious about the new BeagleBone-Black and the existing LCD3 cape from CircuitCo - do they work together? It wasn't clear to me whether the adoption of on-board HDMI would create any problems.
  • [00:55:40] <calculus> I think the news of no binary blob would make headlines if that were the case
  • [00:55:40] <mru> you can't use both iiuc
  • [00:56:12] <rbarris> OK. The followup question would be, does the existing LCD3 cape work if HDMI is not plugged.
  • [00:56:27] <ds2> don't see why not unless the HDMI framer is F'ed or the LCD board is poorly designed
  • [00:56:52] <ds2> if we could only have the datasheet of the framer to confirm....
  • [00:58:47] <vvu> has anybody succeeded in statically linking a binary that needs libusb ?
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  • [00:59:56] <mru> ds2: could be a pinmux thing
  • [01:00:15] <airdamien> http://www.nxp.com/products/interface_and_connectivity/hdmi/hdmi_transmitters/TDA19988BHN.html#ordering
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  • [01:01:03] <airdamien> I think that's the framer ic
  • [01:01:43] <airdamien> OOOooo cec control
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  • [01:04:27] <tb01110100> Good night.
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  • [01:25:08] <noobish_> holly shizzlefitzgerald! when is beaglebone black going on sale?
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  • [01:42:05] <rbarris> I pre-reg'd on element14/newark and put my order in today FWIW
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  • [02:26:16] <shapr> Greetings, I just read the ars technica article, but I don't see a purchase link on beagleboard.org, will the link be up tomorrow? Are they sold out?
  • [02:26:34] <shapr> Oh, let me add context.. I'd like to purchase a BeagleBone Black
  • [02:27:27] <crashovrd> my guess is both
  • [02:27:34] <crashovrd> they go on sale tomorrow and are sold out
  • [02:27:37] <shapr> oh, that's sad.
  • [02:28:40] <crashovrd> dont frown, its always possible that someone who bought one could be abducted by aliens and you could have theirs
  • [02:29:02] <shapr> Hm, seems unlikely, but ... sure.
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  • [02:30:03] <crashovrd> http://www.mouser.com/new/beagleboardorg/beagleboneblack/
  • [02:30:09] <crashovrd> did u try them?
  • [02:30:43] <crashovrd> says 7 weeks lead time
  • [02:31:10] <shapr> dang
  • [02:31:44] <crashovrd> the first run of anything these days goes to ebay
  • [02:32:04] <shapr> oh right, scalpers
  • [02:33:45] * mranostay ebays his pre-release samples :P
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  • [02:40:56] <noobish_> beaglebone black is pin compatible (besides battery port) right?
  • [02:41:11] <noobish_> i saw that in the presentation a while back, but don't see it on the ti page.
  • [02:41:18] <mranostay> yes
  • [02:41:45] <mranostay> you'll probably have to air solder the PMIC header for any 'legacy' capes
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  • [02:44:28] <noobish_> sweet sauce
  • [02:44:46] <shapr> What's the PRU in the black?
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  • [02:48:29] <mranostay> shapr: it was is in the classic
  • [02:49:26] <noobish_> the wiki says the mmc1 that go to the header are used...which ones? Most can be muxed to multiple pins on the header.
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  • [02:51:17] <noobish_> "Do not use these signals for anything else will trying to use the other eMMC1 lines on the expansion header."
  • [02:51:21] <noobish_> engrish is hard derp
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  • [02:53:05] <crashovrd> all your eMMC signal are belong to us
  • [02:55:39] <mranostay> not drunk enough to read it
  • [02:55:45] <noobish_> well crap...my cape wont work.
  • [02:57:52] <noobish_> can't tie mmc down, cause pru is using that
  • [02:58:09] <noobish_> can't just move to other pru pins cause they're all sysboot.
  • [02:59:50] * tema (~tema@178-16-155-142.obit.ru) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [03:03:49] <noobish_> :(
  • [03:06:26] <noobish_> damn, mmc wipes out 9 pins.
  • [03:06:27] <crashovrd> you could always start a boy band instead
  • [03:06:32] <Shadyman> ^
  • [03:06:33] <Shadyman> woot
  • [03:06:34] <noobish_> true dat.
  • [03:09:31] <noobish_> hdmi wipes out something like 11 pins
  • [03:10:04] <mranostay> this tech thing is a fad
  • [03:10:16] <mranostay> we should all start a boy band
  • [03:10:40] <ds2> only after you get your emacapiation papers, mranostay
  • [03:11:15] <mranostay> ds2: die!
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  • [03:15:42] <RichiH> how is the video capability of the black compared to the pi
  • [03:16:35] <noobish_> i'm afraid to look to see if they could have used mmc2 instead.
  • [03:16:52] <noobish_> i don't want to know. the rage would be blinding.
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  • [03:50:41] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> So, i2c1 and i2c2 go to the expansion header. how do those relate to the /dev/i2c-n?
  • [03:50:49] * nawcom (~nawcom@75.114.245.18) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  • [03:51:11] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> i'm assuming i2c-1 maps to /dev/i2c-2, which isn't accessible?
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  • [03:55:57] <Shadyman> both are accessible
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  • [03:57:02] <Shadyman> i think?
  • [03:58:35] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> hrmm, from random newsgroup posts, looks like it was enabled in later kernels.
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  • [03:59:02] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> i'm running angstrom, 3.2.34 so I guess i need to update.
  • [03:59:58] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> seems odd to disable a bus on an embedded linux device, designed to interface with external stuff, just because it doesn't have a pullup built on. :-\
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  • [04:01:44] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> lol, beaglebone acts SUPER strange when you try to run it with the sd card popped out. does it even wireless?
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  • [04:04:53] <uniim> good day, i wanted to inquire for the beaglebone black, what accessory/break out boards make sense for it?
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  • [04:06:20] <MijailR> hello!
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  • [04:07:13] <MijailR> i want to know if there is any page with good projects examples for beaglebone..
  • [04:07:55] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> holy crap, i'm out of date!
  • [04:08:04] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> MijailR: what do you have in mind?
  • [04:08:37] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> it's a computer. you can do ANYTHING! :O
  • [04:09:06] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> and you can wiggle voltages on wires really fast, in all sorts of ways.
  • [04:09:14] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> and connect things like webcams
  • [04:09:17] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> cause it's a computer.
  • [04:10:03] <uniim> answer me next PRU_EVTOUT_2 :)
  • [04:10:21] <uniim> are there any common accessories people buy for the beagle bone boards?
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  • [04:10:53] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> http://www.mouser.com/new/beagleboardorg/beaglebonecapes/
  • [04:10:53] * babak2 (~babak@2.177.128.72) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  • [04:10:54] <torii_> hi, hello.
  • [04:10:56] <uniim> are there 'break out' boards that unlock more features or can you just basically use the 48x2 pinout outputs how you wish?
  • [04:11:28] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> your google search kung-fu is more like google search king-poo
  • [04:11:43] * nawcom (~nawcom@75.114.245.18) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  • [04:12:08] <uniim> :( just wanted to get a quicker answer
  • [04:12:18] <uniim> i can google ok .. just wanted to get a quick answer
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  • [04:12:42] <uniim> kk, i'll just grab a beagle bone black and some breadboard jumper wires to start
  • [04:13:36] <uniim> also, i've always wondered with boards like this .. for the distros and stuff that run on it .. are you able to dig deep into them and play w/ the memory mapped io?
  • [04:13:55] <uniim> like.. is there C code sitting there pertaining to all the underlying hardware and can you get in and mess w/ it?
  • [04:14:29] <uniim> basically, if one is inclined, can I write my on ROTs
  • [04:14:37] <uniim> RTOS.. sorry
  • [04:14:43] * nawcom (~nawcom@75.114.245.18) Quit (Client Quit)
  • [04:15:19] <uniim> like, is there a loader that can compile to target and load whatever code I want onto the board as its main OS?
  • [04:15:28] <crashovrd> yes
  • [04:15:31] <crashovrd> uboot
  • [04:15:40] <crashovrd> all the code is open source in the linux kernel
  • [04:15:41] <uniim> awesome :D .. this keeps getting better and better
  • [04:16:00] <uniim> does it have JTAG or some similar such debugger?
  • [04:16:00] <crashovrd> the only thing preventing you taking it further is the GPL license of said code
  • [04:16:16] <crashovrd> if GPL is not an issue for your use case, you're good to go
  • [04:16:22] <uniim> :D w00t
  • [04:16:43] <crashovrd> on bb black, i have no idea re jtag
  • [04:16:55] <uniim> awwww, kk.. what about the previous version?
  • [04:17:05] <crashovrd> the bb1 does
  • [04:17:10] <uniim> is there a graphical debugger that lets you see the register values and step through code?
  • [04:17:20] <uniim> all that good stuff?
  • [04:17:30] <crashovrd> and iirc, there are jtag headers on bb 'antique'
  • [04:17:35] <crashovrd> :)
  • [04:17:36] <uniim> that's my last questioN :)
  • [04:17:43] <crashovrd> i have no idea how else to refer to them
  • [04:17:53] <crashovrd> i got a BB rev C3
  • [04:18:02] <uniim> like.. is there a graphical ide that lets you step through the pc counter
  • [04:18:08] <uniim> and see the CPU registers?
  • [04:18:13] <crashovrd> with a lovely capacitor soldered to the expansion pins to make USB work
  • [04:18:24] <crashovrd> oh the follies of my youth
  • [04:18:28] * crashovrd flashes back
  • [04:18:28] <uniim> i used to code on arm back in the day
  • [04:18:40] <uniim> forgot the dev board i was on
  • [04:18:52] <uniim> think they used some codewarrior interface
  • [04:19:02] <crashovrd> you can use GDB on it
  • [04:19:05] <uniim> it was pretty cool.. jtag .. you could step through the code ..
  • [04:19:07] <uniim> ah', gdb
  • [04:19:09] <crashovrd> so any ide that supports that should work
  • [04:19:12] <uniim> kk, this is good too
  • [04:19:17] <uniim> k, i'm sold
  • [04:19:26] <uniim> can't wait to join the community. going to be one as soon as its avail.
  • [04:19:34] <uniim> thnx so much chrashovrd
  • [04:19:41] <uniim> be = buy
  • [04:19:53] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> uniim, generally, embedded linux is used to make development super dirt easy.
  • [04:20:07] <uniim> i dont want ez ;)
  • [04:20:12] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> c/c++/python/node.js/whatever rather than asm/cpu registers/tears at night
  • [04:20:20] <uniim> i want to get back to my good ol' days where I screwed with very low level code
  • [04:20:27] <uniim> C is where its at...
  • [04:20:41] <uniim> not about that high level nonsense : python/c++/node.js
  • [04:20:42] <uniim> =P
  • [04:20:57] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> "some people like to use tools to make interesting things, some people like to make tools, and some people like to just sit there and play with tools"
  • [04:21:05] <uniim> want to re-sharpen my skills in low level code manipulation
  • [04:21:17] * torii_ (851b2a24@gateway/web/freenode/ip.133.27.42.36) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  • [04:21:19] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> i'm writing most of my stuff in c
  • [04:21:23] <uniim> my job doesn't challenge me enough
  • [04:21:30] <uniim> lost all my skills i learned in school
  • [04:21:32] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> difference is, i have an ssh session into the beaglebone, and am compiling and running it on there.
  • [04:21:36] <uniim> need to resharpen em
  • [04:22:02] <crashovrd> i use filezilla to copy files to my RPi over ssh
  • [04:22:05] <crashovrd> super easy
  • [04:22:07] <uniim> yeah, i work in a similar such environment at work
  • [04:22:08] <crashovrd> no extra config required
  • [04:22:20] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> oh, well then that IS no fun then :P
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  • [04:22:37] <uniim> ha, you'd be surprised how lame corp programming is
  • [04:22:39] <uniim> and ez
  • [04:22:47] <uniim> i did more challenging stuff in grad school
  • [04:23:05] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> crashovrd: I use a network share, modify stuffs on my pc, then use them instantly on my beaglebone.
  • [04:23:07] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> BRING IT
  • [04:23:07] <uniim> i feel like i've become dumber since i left
  • [04:23:17] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> that's the way of work.
  • [04:23:26] <uniim> :D will do ! can't wait to get started.. i guess beagle bone black will be avail soon
  • [04:23:42] <crashovrd> i prefer easy
  • [04:23:47] <crashovrd> in fact ...
  • [04:23:54] * crashovrd pauses for dramatic effect
  • [04:24:02] <uniim> depends on what i'm trying to get done.. i really like to dig into low level stuff
  • [04:24:04] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> there a neon unit and graphics accelerators on it too.
  • [04:24:04] <crashovrd> i code mostly in C#!
  • [04:24:07] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> so have fun with that! :D
  • [04:24:24] <uniim> oh i will .. going to get right into the guts of it :D
  • [04:24:42] <crashovrd> i am the outcast
  • [04:24:43] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> crashovrd: i wish i could make thene beaglebone pins wiggle data out at 15MHz with c#!
  • [04:24:50] <crashovrd> i use a managed language
  • [04:24:56] <crashovrd> and graphics + sound
  • [04:25:01] <uniim> C or bust for me
  • [04:25:02] <crashovrd> i am shunned in the embedded world!
  • [04:25:05] <crashovrd> im a pariah
  • [04:25:08] <crashovrd> :D
  • [04:25:08] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> you sicken me!!
  • [04:25:10] <uniim> bwahahah
  • [04:25:15] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> uniim, what's wrong with asm?
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  • [04:25:17] <uniim> C/assembly
  • [04:25:22] <uniim> that's where i'm at
  • [04:25:31] <torii_> I have a question, Is a saler here?
  • [04:25:41] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> there are two 200MHz coprocessors on the beaglebone, only to use them is asm, so have fun with that!
  • [04:25:50] <uniim> w00t
  • [04:25:53] <uniim> yeah, what are those for?
  • [04:25:57] <uniim> i was confused by that...
  • [04:26:04] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> torii_: there's a user list on the right
  • [04:26:14] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> uniim, they're meant for real time stuff
  • [04:26:19] <uniim> i used to work on the iphone dev team =P .. i love me some arm assembly
  • [04:26:29] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> they're not arm
  • [04:26:32] <crashovrd> i think the intent was to allow real time control while running a non-realtime environment like linux
  • [04:26:35] <uniim> lame.. what are there?
  • [04:26:38] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> they have a super simple instruction set
  • [04:26:40] <uniim> kinda confused here
  • [04:27:03] <uniim> never have seen such an architecture...
  • [04:27:13] <uniim> co-processor .. how does that work?
  • [04:27:22] <torii_> I would like to buy BeagleBord Black, Would you deal shipping to Japan?
  • [04:27:26] <uniim> do they still wait on interrupts from the main proc?
  • [04:27:37] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> basically, two crummy 200MHz microcontrollers with a really limited instruction set, 8kb of iram, 8kb of dram, 12kb of shared dram, and access to full (well, non priveledgedded) system memory
  • [04:27:54] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> with access to some of the gpio
  • [04:27:54] <uniim> ah', can they access the i/o pins?
  • [04:27:59] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> some of them, yes.
  • [04:28:03] <uniim> kk, same gpio
  • [04:28:05] <uniim> some..
  • [04:28:07] <uniim> read/write priv?
  • [04:28:45] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> well, read or write.
  • [04:28:55] <uniim> what i don't understand.. do they have their own clocks/etc .. like do they run indepdently of the main cpu?
  • [04:29:03] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> to flip them from read to write, you'll have to use a kernel driver of some sort.
  • [04:29:05] <uniim> if so, how in the world are resource conflicts handled?
  • [04:29:12] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> yeah, totally independent.
  • [04:29:17] <uniim> wow, interesting
  • [04:29:21] <crashovrd> hardware spinlock iirc
  • [04:29:31] <uniim> :) those spinlock loops
  • [04:29:33] <crashovrd> i recall seeing that somewhre in the data sheet
  • [04:29:33] <uniim> yum
  • [04:29:44] <uniim> cool cool
  • [04:29:47] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> well, when they access the system memory, they have to go through a proper memory bus
  • [04:29:48] <_av500_> yarn
  • [04:29:55] <uniim> ah'
  • [04:30:02] <uniim> and so all that code is open source?
  • [04:30:08] <uniim> these drivers and such?
  • [04:30:14] <uniim> so i can fiddle with em and modify em?
  • [04:30:23] <crashovrd> only the video drivers are closed
  • [04:30:26] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> everything is open source.
  • [04:30:36] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> err...yeah.
  • [04:30:38] <uniim> w000t ! .. god i'm having a nerdgasm right now
  • [04:30:46] <_av500_> fine
  • [04:30:47] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> and, the pru stuff is kinda "as is, no support"
  • [04:31:05] <uniim> kk, awesome. i'll spare you guys the flood of questions that are in the f**** memos
  • [04:31:15] <uniim> thank you guys so so very much though :)
  • [04:31:24] <uniim> has gotten my excitement up on the possibilities of fiddling
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  • [04:34:22] <uniim> nite all
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  • [04:39:46] <mijailr> hello...
  • [04:40:12] <mijailr> ???
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  • [04:41:28] <dm8tbr> http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
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  • [04:42:36] <mijailr> so where i can find good projects for beaglebone? in beagleboard.org/projects almost all are dead..
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  • [04:49:53] <dm8tbr> mijailr: well, what are you looking for?
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  • [04:54:28] <ds2> dead?!
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  • [05:02:48] <mranostay> don't tell me my dream of FreeBSD on a bone is dead?!!?
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  • [05:06:42] <mranostay> _av500_: 100W USB? are they on crack? :)
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  • [05:10:43] <mijailr> im looking for projects examples for noobs
  • [05:11:03] <mijailr> i am very new with beaglebone and embeded linux
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  • [05:16:18] <dm8tbr> then you might want to just use the standard image
  • [05:16:38] <dm8tbr> the cloud9 thing
  • [05:16:43] <dm8tbr> and just tinker with it
  • [05:22:22] <_av500_> if you tinker it they will come
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  • [05:23:02] <crashovrd> thats what she said!
  • [05:23:22] * crashovrd receives angry twitters
  • [05:23:25] <_av500_> mijailr: have a look at beagleboard's G+ stream, there are many articles linked
  • [05:24:07] <mijailr> av500: thanks!
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  • [06:06:03] <lepton_> hello?
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  • [06:08:04] <mranostay> hello!!!!
  • [06:09:40] <Shadyman> DENIED
  • [06:10:14] <ka6sox-farfarawa> lets hope the Jesus Stick works.
  • [06:10:15] <dm8tbr> ehlo
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  • [07:20:47] <bpetersen> How do I call an include file in a different directory when I am working with Assembly code. ( I am currently using PRU to control BeagleBone GPIO)
  • [07:21:45] <woglinde> -I
  • [07:22:08] <bpetersen> I am kinda new to this, is the -I within the Makefile?
  • [07:23:41] <woglinde> -I is for the compiler
  • [07:23:47] <woglinde> man gcc
  • [07:24:12] <woglinde> and yes you can set headersearchpaths in Makefiles
  • [07:24:34] <bpetersen> Well in my Makefile I have : [4] INCDIR_APP_LOADER?=../../app_loader/include
  • [07:24:46] <bpetersen> [7] CFLAGS+= -Wall -I$(INCDIR_APP_LOADER) -D__DEBUG -O2 -mtune=cortex-a8 -march=armv7-a
  • [07:24:58] <bpetersen> [21] $(CROSS_COMPILE)gcc -std=gnu99 $(CFLAGS) -c -o $@ $<
  • [07:25:20] <bpetersen> And I have placed the .hp files within the /app_loader/include directory
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  • [07:40:15] <av500> bpetersen: pastebin
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  • [07:41:42] <schuschu_> is there any way to buy/preorder a beagleboard black right now?
  • [07:41:52] <av500> sure
  • [07:42:07] * av500 loves "finish!!!" http://pastebin.com/PJdmgcuM
  • [07:42:16] <schuschu_> where?
  • [07:44:02] <av500> http://www.element14.com/community/community/knode/dev_platforms_kits/element14_dev_kits/next-gen_beaglebone?CMP=KNC-EU-Knode-NGBeagleB
  • [07:44:09] <av500> first link when you google
  • [07:44:16] <av500> other distris might have them too
  • [07:44:23] <av500> or will have them
  • [07:44:28] <Shadyman> see also: makershed.com adafruit.com
  • [07:44:57] * ant_work (~ant@host6-80-static.42-85-b.business.telecomitalia.it) has joined #beagle
  • [07:45:04] <schuschu_> Not the original, the new black version this http://beagleboard.org/Products/BeagleBone+Black has no buy link ^^
  • [07:45:23] <Shadyman> ...
  • [07:45:28] <schuschu_> TIs order now links to the same page and the estore has none either
  • [07:45:29] <Shadyman> see also: makershed.com adafruit.com
  • [07:45:57] <Shadyman> http://www.makershed.com/BeagleBoard_BeagleBone_Black_p/mkcce3.htm
  • [07:47:18] <Shadyman> http://www.adafruit.com/products/1278
  • [07:48:48] <av500> well yes, its all ramping up right now
  • [07:48:58] <av500> its not like they preproduced 10million like apple does
  • [07:49:04] <Shadyman> ^
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  • [07:51:40] <Shadyman> g'nite folks
  • [07:51:49] <schuschu_> thanks guys, order placed ^^
  • [07:52:07] <keesj> I am just waiting for somebody to send me one but nobody asked for my address yet
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  • [08:04:24] <av500> keesj: you are doin' something wrong then
  • [08:05:30] * DJW|Home (~djwillis@cpc1-bath5-2-0-cust122.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #beagle
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  • [08:11:14] <keesj> I should ask?
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  • [08:15:00] <Rotti> hi!
  • [08:15:16] * teralaser (~teralaser@unaffiliated/teralaser) has joined #beagle
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  • [08:17:30] <woglinde> hi rotti
  • [08:17:32] <Beaglemax> mm i'm not sure with my quest but well
  • [08:17:39] <Beaglemax> it's possible run xbmc
  • [08:17:43] <Beaglemax> on it?
  • [08:17:57] <woglinde> google is not your friend
  • [08:18:00] * pankaj (ca4ead12@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.78.173.18) has joined #beagle
  • [08:18:06] <Beaglemax> ya is not my friend
  • [08:18:07] <Beaglemax> xD
  • [08:18:49] <pankaj> @jkridner: are you ther??
  • [08:19:15] * Beaglemax (b5821730@gateway/web/freenode/ip.181.130.23.48) Quit (Client Quit)
  • [08:20:02] <pankaj> @jkridner: I want to discuss something about GSOC 2013. It would be great if we could talk sometime.
  • [08:21:17] <av500> he's asleep
  • [08:21:29] <av500> BeagleBot: XBMC yes, but only with SW codecs
  • [08:21:33] <av500> so no full HD
  • [08:21:43] <av500> arf
  • [08:21:46] <av500> idiot
  • [08:21:51] * jpsaman (~jpsaman@videolan/developer/jpsaman) has joined #beagle
  • [08:21:57] <av500> ha, superdad
  • [08:22:06] <keesj> I need to work on my economic value
  • [08:22:07] <pankaj> who...jkridner???
  • [08:22:19] <av500> jkridner: yes, he is sleeping
  • [08:22:29] <pankaj> who r u
  • [08:22:29] <pankaj> ?
  • [08:22:42] <woglinde> pankaj subscribe to beale gsoc ml and discuss there
  • [08:23:25] <woglinde> av500 hm he did not read the list about possible mentors
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  • [08:41:36] <panto> moaning
  • [08:42:49] <mrpackethead> morninging
  • [08:43:58] <KotH> WORLD PEACE!
  • [08:44:12] <panto> get outta here hippie
  • [08:44:28] * scrp3l (~scrp3l@178.63.197.92) has joined #beagle
  • [08:44:35] * KotH throws some salad at panto
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  • [08:45:25] <dotc> Anyone out there?
  • [08:45:53] <teralaser> yes
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  • [08:47:09] <dotc> Can anyone give me any help with I2C communication on the beaglebone?
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  • [08:47:42] <woglinde> hi panto
  • [08:47:44] <teralaser> software?
  • [08:47:48] <finnomenon> good morning
  • [08:47:54] * teralaser is a hardware person
  • [08:48:09] <panto> dotc, what do you want to do?
  • [08:48:23] <dotc> Hello again panto.
  • [08:48:34] <dotc> How would I go about writing a driver?
  • [08:49:00] <dotc> say I want to send/read a byte from the I2C bus
  • [08:49:04] <panto> grab the kernel sources
  • [08:49:28] <panto> and look into the source of a driver similar to what you do
  • [08:49:37] <dotc> I'm very new to Linux, so that's my weakest point. Could you explain that further?
  • [08:49:42] <panto> there's a Documentation/ directory
  • [08:50:17] <panto> lots of hits on google
  • [08:50:19] <panto> first one: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7136
  • [08:50:42] <dotc> Thanks. Ill take some time to look into this.
  • [08:50:57] * mhaberler (~mhaberler@extern-186.stiwoll.mah.priv.at) Quit (Quit: mhaberler)
  • [08:51:12] <panto> Documentation/i2c/writting-clients is pretty decent too
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  • [08:51:57] <panto> all in all, if you understand i2c it shouldn't take you long
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  • [08:53:18] <dotc> I understand I2C well. SPI is my domain, but I dont get how I can access it from the software side. I could write and read bytes by bit-banging with a GPIO, but that's so much less efficient.
  • [08:54:29] <dotc> I'm used to programming small 8-bit microcontrollers. I've never programmed an actual OS to do anything.
  • [08:54:44] <dotc> I hope that gives you an idea as to my perspective
  • [08:55:04] <panto> dotc, if you understand the concepts it should be no biggie
  • [08:55:31] <panto> it might even be easier, since you don't have to write the bus access code yourself
  • [08:55:56] <panto> you get lots of freebies if you learn the linux way of doing things
  • [08:56:45] <dotc> Sounds like it. That's why I'm trying to learn Linux. I'm so used to going from the bottom up, and making my own codes for everything from the bit-level up
  • [08:57:23] <panto> dotc, believe it or not, that the way most Linux people work too
  • [08:57:30] <dotc> but then it leaves me not knowing how to make my own code that acesses someone elses I2C code
  • [08:57:59] <panto> dotc, don't let complexity overwhelm you
  • [08:58:21] <panto> work on your corner, get it working, and then spread out to other things you might care about
  • [08:59:33] <dotc> Okay, so I see how I can acess the I2C driver in linux, but how does that translate down to a specific pin on the board?
  • [09:00:22] <panto> the i2c controllers have muxing options getting to the pinout
  • [09:00:40] <panto> are you on a bone? if so, this is done via the device tree
  • [09:01:17] <dotc> Yes, i'm using a bone.
  • [09:01:33] <dotc> I am somewhat familliar with muxing, as even 8-bit uCs use it
  • [09:06:22] <panto> right
  • [09:09:14] <dotc> What is a "struct (device)"? I see that mentioned a lot.
  • [09:09:15] * moog (558545fa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.133.69.250) has joined #beagle
  • [09:09:41] <woglinde> ????
  • [09:09:46] * moog (558545fa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.133.69.250) Quit (Client Quit)
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  • [09:10:22] <woglinde> you do not know what a struct is?
  • [09:10:42] <dotc> I probably would by a different name
  • [09:10:49] <woglinde> ???????
  • [09:10:56] <KotH> dotc: record
  • [09:10:58] <woglinde> did you ever programmed in c?
  • [09:11:02] <KotH> dotc: in wirth-lingo
  • [09:11:22] <dotc> I'm self-taught.
  • [09:11:33] * W1N9Zr4463 (~W1N9Zr0@24-246-93-30.cable.teksavvy.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  • [09:11:40] <woglinde> o.O
  • [09:11:57] <dotc> I'm more of a hardware person haha
  • [09:12:33] * pankaj (ca4ead12@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.78.173.18) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  • [09:13:25] <av500> then change your nick to dothw
  • [09:13:33] <av500> or dotbasic
  • [09:13:37] * errordeveloper (~ilya@46-65-25-158.zone16.bethere.co.uk) has joined #beagle
  • [09:13:40] <woglinde> dotpascal
  • [09:13:53] <dotc> DotC stands for Dawn Of The Computer
  • [09:13:58] <KotH> ah..
  • [09:14:01] <woglinde> o.O
  • [09:14:05] <KotH> that's why your nick rings a bell
  • [09:14:16] <KotH> weren't you in #mplayer or #ffmpeg a couple of years ago?
  • [09:14:25] <dotc> nope.
  • [09:14:41] <dotc> Dawn of the Computer is my artist name.
  • [09:14:48] <dotc> I produce electronic music on the side
  • [09:14:50] <KotH> dotc: if you havent read it already, buy a copy of k&r and read it
  • [09:14:57] <panto> KotH, +1
  • [09:15:00] <dotc> okay
  • [09:15:10] <panto> dotc, try not to be distracted by fancy book covers
  • [09:15:17] * W1N9Zr0 (~W1N9Zr0@24.246.93.30) has joined #beagle
  • [09:15:26] <panto> read K&R, it's small and is timeless
  • [09:15:37] <dotc> Where can I find it?
  • [09:15:37] <mrpackethead> Jsut ordered some Black
  • [09:15:54] <panto> http://www.amazon.com/Programming-Language-2nd-Brian-Kernighan/dp/0131103628
  • [09:16:24] <dotc> Thank you.
  • [09:16:25] <panto> if you're a struggling artist you can, ahem, 'find' it as an ebook
  • [09:16:31] <panto> but nothing beat having a paper copy
  • [09:16:49] <dotc> I'm a struggling artist, but not a broke artist!
  • [09:17:00] <mrpackethead> except a legal ebook copy
  • [09:17:14] * tsjsieb (~tsjsieb@2001:980:4b3b:1:225:31ff:fe00:ff7a) has joined #beagle
  • [09:17:40] <panto> it's one of those books that you must have if you're serious about learning to code
  • [09:17:51] <panto> 20 years old, and still relevant
  • [09:18:05] <mrpackethead> C for dummies
  • [09:18:05] <mrpackethead> ?
  • [09:18:52] <dotc> I'm a freshman in college. Formal eductaion on C is not availible to me. Ive been learning on my own since middleschool
  • [09:19:07] <mrpackethead> change school
  • [09:19:37] <dotc> They hardly even teach about hardware here.
  • [09:19:57] <dotc> Ive run into seniors who dont even have a clue what a MOSFET is, or what an op-amp does
  • [09:20:41] <dotc> Wait, was anyone going to give me an idea of what struct means?
  • [09:21:26] <panto> you know what a variable is?
  • [09:21:36] <panto> imagine grouping them together
  • [09:21:44] <dotc> so like an array?
  • [09:22:19] <dotc> or is it more like a class
  • [09:22:32] <panto> a class is a struct with methods
  • [09:22:41] <dotc> okay
  • [09:22:58] <panto> in fact in C++ you can replace class with struct, and it will mostly work the same
  • [09:23:10] <panto> the only thing it changes is the default visibility of members
  • [09:23:39] <panto> read the book
  • [09:23:44] <dotc> will do
  • [09:23:47] <panto> expect to be struggling at first
  • [09:23:48] <dotc> but that might take a while
  • [09:24:20] <dotc> the relation to a class makes sense
  • [09:24:21] <panto> you're young, you have the whole life in front of you :)
  • [09:24:33] <dotc> I expect to learn a lot over my life.
  • [09:25:04] <dotc> I'm working my way to aircraft engineering.
  • [09:25:49] <dotc> I've got a half-built ultralight in my garage. Ive been told I'm crazy for trying to make one so many times.
  • [09:26:24] <panto> sanity is overrated
  • [09:26:27] <dotc> Thank you so much for your help eveyone. I have to go. Ill check out that book for sure, pant.
  • [09:26:35] <dotc> *panto
  • [09:26:46] <panto> go forth young man and multiply...
  • [09:26:53] * panto gives dotc his blessing...
  • [09:27:55] * panto gets out of the robes and goes out to buy groceries
  • [09:28:09] * panto gets back in to put on pants
  • [09:32:53] * dotc (~dotc@168.28.136.11) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  • [09:36:43] <felipebalbi> panto: +1 on K&R. Probably the only book which will teach you peculiarities of pointers vs arrays
  • [09:36:54] <felipebalbi> panto: and pointers of pointers vs array of pointers
  • [09:37:17] * vvu|zZu is now known as vvu
  • [09:38:50] <BeagleGithub> [kernel] koenkooi pushed 2 new commits to 3.8: http://git.io/_e-AJw
  • [09:38:50] <BeagleGithub> kernel/3.8 1f960b0 Koen Kooi: 3.8: add resetctrl framework...
  • [09:38:50] <BeagleGithub> kernel/3.8 656a99b Koen Kooi: 3.8: save 0.3s off boottime by disabling kprobes...
  • [09:39:23] <crashovrd> thats creepy
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  • [09:58:56] <jackmitchell> I gots me a Mozilla phone coming
  • [09:59:24] <jackmitchell> in OMG ORANGE
  • [09:59:41] <woglinde> jackmitchell which one?
  • [09:59:47] <jackmitchell> Keon
  • [10:00:02] <jackmitchell> the larger one is nicer specs, but it's just too big
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  • [10:19:14] <Naphatul> how hard is it to load a distro of my choice on the newest board?
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  • [10:33:47] <mrpackethead> Naphatul: you'd have to get one first
  • [10:33:48] <mrpackethead> :-0)
  • [10:34:15] <Naphatul> were the last ones sold out fast/
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  • [10:57:06] <pii3> hey
  • [10:57:20] <pii3> anyone already have BeagleBone Black?
  • [10:58:03] * xenoxaos has an alpha
  • [10:58:23] <pii3> how much its weight?
  • [10:58:41] <xenoxaos> pretty much the same as a regular bone
  • [10:59:06] <pii3> i dont have the regular too
  • [11:00:10] <xenoxaos> not a lot
  • [11:00:26] <pii3> 50g?
  • [11:00:49] <xenoxaos> have you tried looking online?
  • [11:01:24] <pii3> 39g
  • [11:01:26] <pii3> cool
  • [11:02:04] <pii3> xenoxaos, have u try to install android on yours?
  • [11:04:59] * phantoxeD (~destroy@a95-92-85-217.cpe.netcabo.pt) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  • [11:05:12] * xenoxaos is a linux guy
  • [11:05:25] <xenoxaos> but i gotta run to work
  • [11:05:40] <pii3> ok take care
  • [11:07:36] * anujdeshpande (~anuj@59.99.244.28) has joined #beagle
  • [11:07:55] * wmat looks for BBB buy link on beagleboard.org
  • [11:10:47] <wmat> I guess the west coasters haven't updated the site yet
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  • [11:18:53] <wmat> *sigh*, BBB available on Newark's US site, but not the Canadian
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  • [11:21:21] <KotH> panto, felipebalbi: actually, i dont think that k&r is a good book on programming. it's way to short and hardly mentiones any booby traps in the language. the "c++ primer plus" from prata is better for learning all those stuff, even for c. but k&r is small enough that with some prior programming knowledge you can learn c very quickly
  • [11:21:49] <mru> just read the damn spec
  • [11:21:54] <panto> k&r is the bible
  • [11:21:58] <panto> enough said
  • [11:22:10] <mru> and about as current as the bible
  • [11:22:10] <wmat> KotH: careful, the Gods may strike you down for such blasphemy ;)
  • [11:22:32] <panto> mru, where is it outdated?
  • [11:22:46] * KotH does not fear no heathan gods ;)
  • [11:23:04] <panto> it doesn't deal with libraries, true, but the language hardly changed
  • [11:23:11] <wmat> panto: it excludes anything added to the spec since it's publication date
  • [11:23:13] <mru> panto: is there a c99 version of it?
  • [11:23:25] <KotH> panto: the last version of k&r is of c89 iirc
  • [11:23:34] <mru> that's what I thought too
  • [11:23:40] <panto> no, but it's last version is 89
  • [11:24:03] <mru> c99 has _lots_ of little changes compared to c89
  • [11:24:03] <panto> if you read it, how hard would it be to find out what's changed for c99?
  • [11:24:22] <KotH> hard
  • [11:24:29] <KotH> you'd have to read the c99 std
  • [11:24:36] <KotH> and this is non-trivial for anyone knew to c
  • [11:24:37] <mru> which is actually not hard at all
  • [11:24:52] <wmat> i've seen lists around that attempt to list the changes
  • [11:25:09] <mru> a full list would be about as long as the spec itself
  • [11:25:10] <KotH> mru: reading not, but understanding which parts are relevant and which not is not easy if you have not a good grasp of c
  • [11:25:11] <panto> I stand by my premise, read k&r, it is useful
  • [11:25:32] <panto> it is a bit out-of-date, but it stands as invaluable
  • [11:25:40] <mru> c99 tightens up various corner cases
  • [11:25:43] <KotH> panto: that's true. if you want only to read one book on c, k&r isnt a bad choice. but it's not the best one
  • [11:25:50] <wmat> there's this rant: http://c.learncodethehardway.org/book/krcritique.html
  • [11:26:59] <panto> wmat, I'd wager that when his book is 20 years old and still relevant he'll have the right to whine
  • [11:27:08] <panto> until then...
  • [11:27:12] <wmat> good point
  • [11:27:24] <mru> k&r is fine for what it covers
  • [11:27:28] <wmat> at least he has a book :/
  • [11:27:33] <mru> but since it can't cover things added since its publication...
  • [11:27:42] <mru> but books are overrated
  • [11:27:42] <panto> we have no idea about the rate of change between those 20 years
  • [11:28:11] <panto> in literary terms, it's like the harry poter's author critiquing dante
  • [11:28:20] <mru> hehe
  • [11:29:16] <KotH> panto: i critizized goethe :)
  • [11:29:24] <crashovrd> dont forget there is more to programming that the language reference. just as important are coding practices!
  • [11:29:33] <crashovrd> so there's another book
  • [11:29:39] <KotH> crashovrd: that's another point where k&r falls short
  • [11:30:00] <crashovrd> and then you also need a good reference on programming patterns
  • [11:30:12] <KotH> not really
  • [11:30:18] <crashovrd> conclusion: outsource it!
  • [11:30:20] <crashovrd> :)
  • [11:30:40] <mru> crashovrd: you can't acquire good coding practices by merely reading a book
  • [11:30:54] <panto> programming is not science, it's not art, it's not even book-keeping
  • [11:30:56] <KotH> when people get to that point, i usally tell them to get a copy of "Code Reading" by spinelli and read lots of code others have written
  • [11:30:59] <crashovrd> programming patterns are like manners! you can get by without them. but u come off quite vulgar
  • [11:31:01] <panto> it's all of those, and something else
  • [11:31:06] <wmat> crashovrd: outsourcing just delays having to write it yourself
  • [11:31:09] <KotH> panto: programming is a craft
  • [11:31:25] <mru> crashovrd: what are these "patterns" of which you speak?
  • [11:31:48] <wmat> I code my C in plaid
  • [11:32:02] <mru> some of the worst code I've ever seen was the result of idiots shoehorning all problems into some predefined "pattern"
  • [11:32:05] <KotH> mru: something relevant for java programmers... c programmers know those thing by heart or have aquired them by reading code
  • [11:32:10] <wmat> mostly the Royal Stewart tartan
  • [11:32:23] <mru> the most prevalent is of course the spaghetti pattern
  • [11:32:28] <KotH> lol
  • [11:32:40] <panto> mru, there's something worse
  • [11:32:54] <panto> the infinite classes problem, all alike, but somewhat different
  • [11:33:02] <mru> it's the programming equievalent of the central limit theorem
  • [11:33:19] <panto> at least I can pull the thread of a spaghetti program and figure out what it does
  • [11:33:20] <mru> if sufficiently many patterns are combined, the result is spaghetti
  • [11:33:35] * scrp3l (~scrp3l@178.63.197.92) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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  • [11:34:05] <mru> panto: you mean like the time I found about 5 different java classes implementing a scrolling text pane?
  • [11:34:06] * mrpackethead (~mrpacketh@147.200.109.203.static.cust.vf.net.nz) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [11:34:09] <mru> 3 of them unused
  • [11:34:09] <KotH> panto: we have here some code, that is nearly impossible to untangle
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  • [11:34:29] <panto> right
  • [11:34:33] * mrpackethead (~mrpacketh@147.200.109.203.static.cust.vf.net.nz) has joined #beagle
  • [11:34:44] <panto> some of the worse I've seen was similar but with corba added on top
  • [11:35:00] * mrpackethead (~mrpacketh@147.200.109.203.static.cust.vf.net.nz) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  • [11:35:00] <mru> everything gets worse with corba
  • [11:35:16] <crashovrd> embedded still has lots of wild west frontier coders
  • [11:35:17] <KotH> panto: a state machine, implented using function pointers, which are set at inconsistent places, and most work is done in a sub-sub-sub state machine which is worked on in the state called "IDLE" :)
  • [11:35:19] <panto> 1 week to figure out _where_ the code crapped out
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  • [11:35:49] <KotH> crashovrd: it's not just embedded
  • [11:35:58] <KotH> crashovrd: java is worse in my experience
  • [11:35:58] <crashovrd> probably much to do with the toolsets available and difficulty implmenting elegance
  • [11:36:04] <crashovrd> yeah! i said elegance
  • [11:36:14] <panto> crashovrd, you are under the impression that the civilized urban coders are better?
  • [11:36:35] <crashovrd> there is a time and place for everything
  • [11:36:40] <KotH> crashovrd: but with java you have more "patterns" that people learn by heart (instead of why and when to use them) and apply the same 10-20 patterns which makes it easier to read
  • [11:36:51] * Rotti (~S@2001:638:602:1183:f89f:39d5:e7fb:4bfa) has joined #beagle
  • [11:36:51] <crashovrd> i prefer the penthouse to the saloons and brothels
  • [11:36:58] <woglinde> koth java is same depends on the coder
  • [11:37:00] <KotH> crashovrd: while c has many ways you can shoot your own foot and people tend to use them all
  • [11:37:11] <KotH> woglinde: i havent said that there are no good java programmers
  • [11:37:20] <panto> there's something to be said about form and terseness
  • [11:37:25] <woglinde> I meant code quality and elegance
  • [11:37:28] * mru prefers to program with a six-shooter
  • [11:37:29] <KotH> woglinde: just that the percentage is lower than with c :)
  • [11:37:33] <crashovrd> in the end what counts is that you solve the problem you set out to
  • [11:37:49] <woglinde> crashovrd hm hm
  • [11:37:59] <woglinde> if it is not maintable
  • [11:38:06] <KotH> yeah..
  • [11:38:06] <woglinde> args
  • [11:38:09] <woglinde> maintainable
  • [11:38:10] <mru> http://xkcd.com/763/
  • [11:38:11] <woglinde> its lost
  • [11:38:23] <crashovrd> if its not maintainable, then make sure you find a new job so its someone elses problem!
  • [11:38:52] <KotH> like one customer who came to us for a "small fix" in a c code for a PIC18, they were going to use in a medical app... our recomendation was to rewrite it from scratch, because there was no way this would pass medical certification
  • [11:39:12] <mru> crashovrd: that reminds me of the overlaid linked lists I left behind at a previous job...
  • [11:39:19] <woglinde> koth *g*
  • [11:39:30] <woglinde> mru haha
  • [11:39:46] <panto> mru, that sounds... evil
  • [11:39:53] <mru> it was all shipped out to india shortly after
  • [11:40:09] <mru> I felt a bit sorry for the poor guy who had to document it
  • [11:40:29] <mru> did I mention the macros?
  • [11:40:59] <mru> seriously though, it wasn't imo all that bad
  • [11:41:02] <panto> did it use the trick of storing two pointers in the single pointer location?
  • [11:41:06] <panto> sounds like it
  • [11:41:11] <mru> no, it didn't do that
  • [11:41:24] <panto> define overlaid then
  • [11:41:40] <mru> same data elements belonging to multiple lists
  • [11:42:17] <panto> doesn't seem too weird to me
  • [11:42:28] <panto> many times you need to access the same data differently
  • [11:42:39] <mru> of course, but you're mostly sensible
  • [11:43:11] * panto shrugs
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  • [11:43:22] <KotH> mru: sensible? a greek? think again!
  • [11:43:22] <panto> I've seen evil-er
  • [11:45:17] * KotH should learn more c preprocessor commands and how to abuse them
  • [11:45:19] <panto> btw, what's the worst fscked up codebase you've seen?
  • [11:45:34] <mru> probably adobe flashlite
  • [11:45:47] <KotH> panto: the code i mentioned above
  • [11:46:24] <panto> worst was code written in C, but using #define's for all pascal keywords
  • [11:46:26] <KotH> panto: not only was it totally entangled spaghetti code, dozens of bugs in every function... no, even all comments were in french!
  • [11:46:30] <panto> i.e. #define begin {
  • [11:46:35] * dlg (~dlg@toy.eait.uq.edu.au) has joined #beagle
  • [11:46:46] * KotH has seen such code as well
  • [11:46:49] <mru> typedef void Void;
  • [11:46:52] <KotH> but that doesnt bother me much
  • [11:47:02] * KotH has started with pascal, back in the days of old
  • [11:47:11] <KotH> so, i'm used to withian languages
  • [11:47:11] <crashovrd> oh man, i used a Sony SDK and all the code comments were in Japanese
  • [11:47:14] <panto> it should, cause semantics in pascal are different than C
  • [11:47:20] <KotH> mru: #define TRUE 0
  • [11:47:23] <KotH> mru: #define FALSE 1
  • [11:47:25] <mru> crashovrd: good, then they didn't mislead you
  • [11:47:31] <KotH> mru: yes, i've seen that many times
  • [11:47:32] <panto> expressions don't short-circuit in pascal, they do in C
  • [11:47:38] <mru> KotH: that would break rather quickly
  • [11:47:45] <mru> better to #define TRUE 2
  • [11:47:47] <panto> gee, memories got me hungry
  • [11:47:48] <mru> or 42
  • [11:47:49] <panto> lunch time
  • [11:48:01] <panto> #define FALSE 1
  • [11:48:04] <panto> #define TRUE 0
  • [11:48:05] <crashovrd> so it started me wondering why they dont use Japanese for class/method names
  • [11:48:15] <mru> panto: again, that would break everything very quickly
  • [11:48:20] <KotH> mru: yes, it's horribly fragile... but they usually do if(blah == TRUE) and such
  • [11:48:22] <mru> it's not subtle enough
  • [11:48:24] <crashovrd> on screen it looked to me like that language they use in the Predator movies
  • [11:48:48] <mru> KotH: what, you've _seen_ such code?
  • [11:48:56] <KotH> yes
  • [11:48:58] <KotH> more than once
  • [11:49:00] <mru> oh dear
  • [11:49:15] <mru> I don't think I want to work for your company...
  • [11:49:16] <KotH> and that wasnt the worst i've seen
  • [11:49:29] <KotH> our companies code looks better
  • [11:49:32] <KotH> it's mostly sane
  • [11:49:41] <woglinde> haha
  • [11:49:44] <KotH> but we get a lot of customers who "just want a small fix"
  • [11:50:10] <KotH> or have been rejected by the certification body and want their code cleaned up
  • [11:50:58] <KotH> our usual approach to such customers is to tell them their code cannot be salvaged and it has to be rewritten from scratch
  • [11:51:18] <KotH> and then we first start by writing a spec what the code is supposed to do :)
  • [11:52:23] <mru> I once tried to document what some code actually did
  • [11:53:10] <mru> all it was meant to do was display a png image
  • [11:53:22] <mru> but sometimes the colours would get messed up in interesting ways
  • [11:53:32] <mru> and the idiot customer relied on that behaviour
  • [11:53:58] <KotH> lol
  • [11:54:11] <mru> the worst part, it was stateful
  • [11:54:22] <mru> the rendering of a specific image could depend on what had been rendered prior
  • [11:54:29] <mru> at least it was strictly causal
  • [11:55:17] <KotH> in the previous company i worked, i got a ring buffer that lost bytes once in a while. when i decided to replace it with something sane (it had more bugs than lines of code), the whole app didnt work anymore. It took me a while that the rest of the code (unintentionally) relied on the ringbuffer to lose bytes
  • [11:56:04] * sdkie (~chatzilla@116.75.3.80) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  • [11:58:35] <ynezz> it's quite common to get such code once you use debugger...
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  • [12:03:34] <panto> back
  • [12:03:44] <woglinde> re panto
  • [12:03:49] <panto> thx
  • [12:03:55] <av500> mahlzeit
  • [12:03:57] <woglinde> time for salad
  • [12:03:59] <woglinde> till later
  • [12:04:43] * babak (~babak@80.191.40.36) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  • [12:04:47] <ynezz> s/salad/coffee/
  • [12:04:53] <av500> +1
  • [12:05:01] <woglinde> no nitpicking
  • [12:05:09] <av500> says you
  • [12:08:09] <av500> mru: http://pastebin.com/sfF1tcYR
  • [12:08:54] <mru> wtf is that?
  • [12:08:58] * sdkie (~sdkie@116.75.3.80) has joined #beagle
  • [12:08:59] <av500> nice eh
  • [12:09:03] <av500> part of a driver makefile
  • [12:09:19] <mru> it's lunacies like that which give makefiles a bad name
  • [12:09:24] <av500> I guess it gets passed from dev to dev and each one ads his own /home/$name line
  • [12:09:30] <av500> adds*
  • [12:09:30] <panto> av500, seems like DSL vendor's SDK
  • [12:09:41] <av500> some wifi driver
  • [12:10:39] <panto> the person who added the umpteen entry should've muttered all kind of things when he was adding his entry
  • [12:10:40] <av500> \o/ it even has DM6446
  • [12:11:02] <panto> ikanos, infineon, ixp
  • [12:11:23] <panto> linux 2.4 :)
  • [12:11:36] <av500> Carter, Charles, John, Fonchi, B.Hushan, qzhliao, Peter,
  • [12:11:57] <panto> lol
  • [12:13:01] <ogra_> wow, KODAK_DC is cool
  • [12:13:06] <av500> yeah
  • [12:14:09] <av500> in fact, its public: http://service.i-onik.de/a10_source_1.5/lichee/linux-3.0/drivers/net/wireless/rtxx7x/Makefile
  • [12:14:27] <mru> oink
  • [12:14:28] <av500> the best is, its an in-kernel out-of-kernel module
  • [12:14:43] <av500> it sits in drivers/net/wireless, but build like an out of tree
  • [12:14:49] <av500> builds*
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  • [12:17:37] <KotH> av500: i wouldnt be so sure whether it builds
  • [12:17:53] <ogra_> heh
  • [12:18:47] * vvu|log (~root@212.201.44.245) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [12:20:09] <mru> I'd assume it doesn't build
  • [12:21:07] <av500> KotH: it does build
  • [12:21:17] <mru> then it doesn't work
  • [12:21:32] <av500> its a wifi driver, of course it does not worl
  • [12:21:33] <av500> work
  • [12:22:02] <mru> the intel ones seem to
  • [12:22:29] <mru> and the atheros running my ap
  • [12:23:21] <KotH> glitch in the matrix
  • [12:23:43] <mru> but those are proper in-kernel drivers
  • [12:23:48] * Echidna (~a@77-20-57-36-dynip.superkabel.de) has joined #beagle
  • [12:25:15] <Echidna> hi
  • [12:25:20] <KotH> gr?ezi
  • [12:25:40] <Echidna> i cant find anything on the availability of the beaglebone black on the website
  • [12:25:51] <KotH> soon
  • [12:26:01] <Echidna> are they sold directly?
  • [12:26:05] <KotH> no
  • [12:26:06] <Echidna> or via local retailers
  • [12:26:10] <KotH> no
  • [12:26:23] * phantoxeD (~destroy@a95-92-85-217.cpe.netcabo.pt) has joined #beagle
  • [12:26:27] <KotH> try mouser, farnell, digikey and all the other usual suspects
  • [12:26:32] <Echidna> ok
  • [12:26:35] <Echidna> anything in germany?
  • [12:26:49] <KotH> mouser, farnell, digikey and all the other usuall suspects
  • [12:26:59] <Echidna> well farnell is UK, isnt it
  • [12:27:18] <KotH> why do you want a local retailer and pay three times the price?
  • [12:27:33] <KotH> at least mouser and farnell offer you next day delivery
  • [12:27:34] <av500> farnell sells in germany
  • [12:27:38] <av500> as do digikey
  • [12:27:46] <jackmitchell> farnell might be called element14 in Ger
  • [12:28:28] <Echidna> ok i'll check it out, thats where i ordered my first raspi
  • [12:28:32] <Echidna> it was from the UK though
  • [12:28:36] <woglinde> re
  • [12:28:44] * vvu|Mobile (~vvu|Mobil@212.201.44.245) has joined #beagle
  • [12:29:24] <woglinde> watterod?
  • [12:30:21] <KotH> jackmitchell: isnt it the otherway round?
  • [12:30:59] <ogra_> element14 might be called farnell in the UK ?
  • [12:31:24] <Echidna> dunno, i think it's called both anywhere
  • [12:31:32] <Echidna> at least the german site says "Farnell element14"
  • [12:31:40] <Echidna> and so did the box i got from the UK back in the day
  • [12:31:52] <jackmitchell> ogra_: I don't know, I'm confuesed
  • [12:32:12] <koen> element14 is the mothership
  • [12:32:14] <Echidna> i found the black, ???43.20
  • [12:32:21] <jackmitchell> net-snmp has obliterated anything I ever thought was right in the world
  • [12:33:26] <Echidna> how's the Java situation on beaglebones? i read you can use the oracle jdk. is it the same soft abi jdk you use for raspi?
  • [12:34:42] * KotH slowly backs away from Echidna
  • [12:34:50] <av500> woglinde: your customer
  • [12:34:54] <av500> woglinde: ^^^
  • [12:35:01] <av500> Echidna: java works on bone, use openjdk
  • [12:35:05] <woglinde> he wants java8 preview
  • [12:35:57] <ogra_> so use openjdk, a looking glass and a time tunnel :)
  • [12:36:01] <mru> oh, a preview is easy:
  • [12:36:05] <mru> NullPointerException
  • [12:36:11] <mru> OutOfMemoryException
  • [12:36:14] <woglinde> me wonders why he wanzts jdk
  • [12:36:18] <woglinde> instead of jre
  • [12:36:33] <KotH> woglinde: apropos...
  • [12:36:51] <woglinde> koth yes?
  • [12:37:31] <KotH> woglinde: there is a java app i'd like to use from our uni. for some reason it doesnt work with openjdk-7. the guys who wrote it say "it doesnt work with openjdk on linux, use the java version from oracle"
  • [12:38:04] <KotH> woglinde: "does not work" as in, doesn't start up at all (no other errors from the browser, where it is started from)
  • [12:38:06] <mru> java: write once, debug everywhere
  • [12:38:10] <KotH> woglinde: any idea what that could be?
  • [12:38:16] * thurbad (~thurgood@cpe-70-113-204-247.austin.res.rr.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [12:38:20] <woglinde> browser?
  • [12:38:23] <KotH> (yes, i know, doesnt work is not an error description)
  • [12:38:26] <KotH> firefox
  • [12:38:29] <woglinde> do you have a link?
  • [12:38:47] * tan__ (~tan@118.250.108.108) has joined #beagle
  • [12:39:05] <tan__> hello
  • [12:39:12] <KotH> gimme a sec to hunt it down
  • [12:39:19] * tan__ is now known as tdh2002
  • [12:39:40] * letothe2nd silently sneaks in and waits for the rush of "can i haz BBBlack right now" lemmings
  • [12:39:54] * uras (b0f0993f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.176.240.153.63) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
  • [12:39:55] <tdh2002> tdh2002 hello
  • [12:40:05] * tdh2002 (~tan@118.250.108.108) Quit (Client Quit)
  • [12:40:09] <woglinde> lol
  • [12:40:23] <woglinde> letothe2nd there was only one and he found it
  • [12:41:37] <letothe2nd> woglinde: guess that'll change once all the hobbyists read heise after work ;)
  • [12:42:10] <woglinde> is the channel mentioned?
  • [12:42:11] <mru> and how is any of this news?
  • [12:42:38] <mru> the thing was being waved around in public at elc in february
  • [12:42:48] <av500> elc != public
  • [12:42:57] <letothe2nd> heise == public.
  • [12:43:07] <mdp> are we done with the color jokes now?
  • [12:43:14] <mdp> and zippers?
  • [12:43:23] <mru> is it fully unzipped?
  • [12:43:49] <av500> we can lharc it
  • [12:43:52] <letothe2nd> mdp: NEVAR!
  • [12:44:22] <Echidna> av500: isnt openjdk half as fast?
  • [12:44:30] <mdp> I still haven't gotten a real one..just a broken A4
  • [12:44:36] <av500> +1
  • [12:44:52] <av500> Echidna: yes, but we dont know which half
  • [12:44:54] <woglinde> echidna make some benchmark tests and tell us
  • [12:45:08] <mru> av500: :)
  • [12:45:46] <CareBear\> arj!
  • [12:45:51] <Echidna> at least on the raspi the openjdk performance was subpar
  • [12:46:04] <mru> _everything_ is subpar on the rpi
  • [12:46:13] <mru> that's its purpose
  • [12:46:15] <Echidna> tru.dat
  • [12:46:38] <woglinde> thats why he needs bone
  • [12:46:40] <Echidna> well with maximum oc its an okay htpc
  • [12:46:55] <CareBear\> it's brilliant
  • [12:47:00] <CareBear\> truly brilliant
  • [12:47:06] <Echidna> the bone?
  • [12:47:08] <ssvb> mru: is 1080p video playback also a part of _everything_?
  • [12:47:09] <woglinde> carebear what?
  • [12:47:10] <CareBear\> the rpi
  • [12:47:14] <ogra_> lol
  • [12:47:19] <mru> rpi is a video decoder with linux running on a coprocessor
  • [12:47:41] <mru> ssvb: yes
  • [12:48:04] <CareBear\> bring a crappy ass decade-old cpu board to market with a fruity logo and a name that reminds people of the number one drug in the western world, sugar
  • [12:48:12] <CareBear\> then:
  • [12:48:24] <jacekowski> rotfl
  • [12:48:34] <KotH> woglinde: http://www.tatool.ch/research/trainyourbrain/download.htm
  • [12:48:34] <KotH> woglinde: and correction: i get an exception
  • [12:48:34] <KotH> woglinde: a class not found
  • [12:48:34] <KotH> woglinde: though it probably should work...
  • [12:48:36] <CareBear\> show how it can be *overclocked* in order to actually do something useful!
  • [12:48:36] <jacekowski> for 20% of beagleboard you forgot to add
  • [12:48:38] <CareBear\> instant win!
  • [12:48:39] <KotH> woglinde: at least for other people it does
  • [12:48:48] <ogra_> CareBear\, ++
  • [12:48:58] <jacekowski> you can make a cluster of rpi boards for price of single bb
  • [12:48:58] <Echidna> well yea but w/o it there probably wouldnt be a beagle
  • [12:49:08] <woglinde> hm htm reminds me on dos http sever
  • [12:49:10] <woglinde> haha
  • [12:49:16] <mru> Echidna: without what?
  • [12:49:20] <CareBear\> ogra_ : instant heise hardon
  • [12:49:27] <CareBear\> it's really brilliant
  • [12:49:33] <mru> Echidna: are you aware that the beagle came out in 2008?
  • [12:49:47] <Echidna> rly? nm then
  • [12:49:51] <woglinde> koth by the way you can start it via command line with webstart
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  • [12:50:24] <KotH> woglinde: cool! thanks
  • [12:50:25] <mru> beagleboard was the first, and thus far only, real "community" board
  • [12:50:36] <KotH> woglinde: i was looking for that thing for a long time ^^'
  • [12:50:45] <ogra_> and it even drove a multi TV video wall back then already :)
  • [12:50:51] <woglinde> koth javaws url
  • [12:50:52] <KotH> mru: how do you define a "community board"
  • [12:51:03] <KotH> woglinde: juup, just googled it
  • [12:51:05] <mru> KotH: any way I please
  • [12:51:23] * KotH declares mru to be god
  • [12:51:45] * errordeveloper (~ilya@46-65-25-158.zone16.bethere.co.uk) has joined #beagle
  • [12:51:51] <woglinde> hm whats he using antlr for
  • [12:51:52] <letothe2nd> VETO.
  • [12:52:04] <ogra_> god is using antlr ?
  • [12:52:06] <woglinde> lol and old spring 2.5
  • [12:52:08] <KotH> woglinde: i have no clue...
  • [12:52:16] <mru> elks have antlers
  • [12:52:17] <woglinde> koth tell him to upgrade to spring 3
  • [12:52:23] <KotH> woglinde: the code was probably written by psychology students... so...
  • [12:52:30] <KotH> woglinde: that's all? lol
  • [12:52:35] <woglinde> no
  • [12:52:40] <Echidna> uh breakout boards are called "capes"?
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  • [12:52:54] <woglinde> but spring 2.5 is outdated and spring3 makes more things easier
  • [12:52:57] <woglinde> and simpler
  • [12:53:08] <mru> Echidna: is that a problem for you?
  • [12:53:28] <ogra_> might be a rude word in his part of germany ?
  • [12:53:29] <Echidna> mru: yes, that's a deal breaker =P
  • [12:53:43] <KotH> Echidna: they are to suggest that the bone has superpowers
  • [12:53:49] <KotH> Echidna: all superpowers need a cape!
  • [12:53:56] <dm8tbr> moo?
  • [12:54:03] <woglinde> gm dm8tbr
  • [12:54:12] <dm8tbr> hiho woglinde
  • [12:54:15] <KotH> moooin dm8tbr
  • [12:54:27] <woglinde> koth at least he had heard of spring
  • [12:54:31] <dm8tbr> KotH: a merry jihad to you too
  • [12:54:36] <Echidna> KotH: hah
  • [12:54:50] <KotH> woglinde: well...
  • [12:54:54] <Echidna> are there capes for dc motors and servos?
  • [12:55:18] <KotH> woglinde: probably someone with a clue started the project for a semester thesis... someone else extended it... and it ended up the way it is
  • [12:55:23] <woglinde> still waiting for last jar to download
  • [12:55:29] <KotH> o_0
  • [12:55:40] * letothe2nd rather waits for jars to be either full or empty.
  • [12:56:06] * ogra_ drinks his whisky out of them
  • [12:56:12] * dm8tbr puts whisky in them
  • [12:56:18] <woglinde> you can unzip them
  • [12:56:18] * dm8tbr high 5's ogra
  • [12:56:19] <ogra_> *snap*
  • [12:56:34] <letothe2nd> hrhr
  • [12:56:50] <Echidna> ok i found motor capes, but they cost a fortune
  • [12:56:52] * dm8tbr once visited a bar that served beer in jars
  • [12:56:58] * Rotti (~S@2001:638:602:1183:f89f:39d5:e7fb:4bfa) Quit (Quit: Verlassend)
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  • [12:57:36] <mru> dm8tbr: did they have whisky in a jar too?
  • [12:57:43] <KotH> Echidna: small volume productions always cost a fortune
  • [12:57:54] <dm8tbr> I didn't ask them, but I guess they'd been happy to sell that too
  • [12:58:02] <KotH> Echidna: but believe me, if you did one yourself, it would cost twice the price
  • [12:58:11] <dm8tbr> economies of scale and all that
  • [12:58:15] <Echidna> KotH: i was comparing to arduino
  • [12:58:35] <Echidna> board + shield were like 35
  • [12:58:36] <Echidna> i think
  • [12:58:52] <mru> the bone is not a goddamn arduino
  • [12:59:59] <woglinde> koth works here
  • [13:00:06] <dm8tbr> one of the smaller house keeping cores in it is probably more powerfull than an arduino
  • [13:00:08] <woglinde> at least I see the login
  • [13:00:10] <KotH> Echidna: compare the specs, not the base board
  • [13:00:13] <KotH> woglinde: 0_0
  • [13:00:19] <KotH> woglinde: why...^^'
  • [13:00:40] <KotH> woglinde: what distro are you using? what java version?
  • [13:00:49] <woglinde> ah okay after login
  • [13:00:53] <woglinde> it crashes
  • [13:00:55] <woglinde> lets see
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  • [13:02:38] <Echidna> KotH: i dont see any specs on the motor cape, it seems to be just a breakout board
  • [13:02:50] <Echidna> i wasnt comparing the bone itself to arduino
  • [13:03:17] <KotH> Echidna: there should be specs available.. at least in the form of a schematic
  • [13:04:01] * mhaberler (~mhaberler@macbook.stiwoll.mah.priv.at) Quit (Quit: mhaberler)
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  • [13:08:07] <fiola> Just saw BeagleBone Black announcement article on Slashdot. Congratulations on new addition to the family! :-)
  • [13:08:22] * sdkie (~sdkie@116.75.3.80) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  • [13:09:15] <mru> for the worst kept secret ever, it's sure making a splash
  • [13:09:40] <Echidna> what are the power requirements of the black? will 5V/1000mA suffice?
  • [13:09:53] <av500> yes
  • [13:09:57] <av500> depends on the capes
  • [13:09:58] * sdkie (~sdkie@116.75.3.80) has joined #beagle
  • [13:10:02] <Echidna> ok
  • [13:10:09] <av500> if you add the coffee warmer cape you might need more
  • [13:10:15] <Echidna> heh
  • [13:10:40] <fiola> Coffee warmer cape, now that's an idea ...
  • [13:11:06] <crashovrd> so when is BeagleBone 3 coming out?
  • [13:11:08] * crashovrd runs
  • [13:12:00] <Echidna> are there any cases available for the black yeT?
  • [13:12:00] * david_____ (568c4696@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.140.70.150) has joined #beagle
  • [13:12:08] <av500> cases?
  • [13:12:14] <av500> it comes in a case
  • [13:12:18] <mru> still fits in an altoids tin
  • [13:12:20] * david_____ is now known as jdm
  • [13:12:41] <fiola> Does TI have a suitable SoC for a BeagleBone 3, similar to the i.MX6 Duo say?
  • [13:12:53] * jdm is now known as jdm12
  • [13:13:03] <mru> what does that question mean?
  • [13:13:12] <av500> fiola: what would you do with it?
  • [13:13:22] <mru> and imx6 is dead, no?
  • [13:13:28] <av500> no
  • [13:13:31] <av500> imx7 is dead
  • [13:13:56] <mru> it's dead like omap4 is dead
  • [13:14:13] <crashovrd> they will probably release BeableBoneBlack-XM next in which they remove the HDMI and Flash again!
  • [13:14:16] * dm8tbr looks at the omap4 product on his desk
  • [13:14:20] <crashovrd> they seem really indecisive
  • [13:14:21] <crashovrd> :P
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  • [13:18:17] <fiola> av500: I'm still puzzling over your question, and still can't make head or tail of it. Were you trying to say that more performance is pointless? Prolly not, as that would be comical. So what did you mean?
  • [13:19:13] <crashovrd> BeagleBone 3 will be Allwinner A10 based
  • [13:19:32] * crashovrd enjoys the thought of that in the logs forever searchable by google
  • [13:19:32] <fiola> Allwinner has an A31 or something like that.
  • [13:19:36] <av500> fiola: what would you do with an imx6 class beagle3?
  • [13:19:41] * jdm12 (568c4696@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.140.70.150) has left #beagle
  • [13:19:53] <av500> I am curious
  • [13:20:01] <av500> because there are now tons of these boards
  • [13:20:16] <av500> but somehow the only thing I see people do is ti install XBMC
  • [13:20:28] <av500> and for that indeed the rpi is enough
  • [13:20:49] <av500> the only other use case is distros using them in build clusters
  • [13:20:57] <fiola> av500: Same as I do with my original BeagleBone, but with less laggy development and faster processing so more applications. Your question is completely pointless.
  • [13:21:37] <mru> fiola: no, it's your question that's completely senseless
  • [13:22:22] <fiola> You'll eat your words as soon as TI comes out with an i.MX6-class next gen board :-)
  • [13:22:43] <BeagleGithub> [kernel] koenkooi pushed 1 new commit to 3.8: http://git.io/m3Nc2w
  • [13:22:43] <BeagleGithub> kernel/3.8 a089b36 Koen Kooi: 3.8: add LCD7 A3 support
  • [13:22:56] <av500> yum
  • [13:22:58] <fiola> Seriously funny to hear you guys say (effectively) "640k ram is enough for anybody".
  • [13:23:06] <av500> nope
  • [13:23:10] <mru> you're asking if ti has a chip suitable for "beaglebone 3" without defining what that board would be
  • [13:23:56] <av500> fiola: the question is, does it make sense for bb.org to invest in a baord with a different CPU
  • [13:26:00] <mdp> dra7xx is suitable, but I expect it to be cost prohibitive
  • [13:26:10] <fiola> If it wants to stay in the game, it has to keep raising the stakes, or it loses mind share even among engineers. And if you lose mind share then your sales volume drops, and pretty soon you don't have a sustainable product.
  • [13:26:21] <av500> mdp: what is the "nice" name for draxx?
  • [13:26:24] * clh_ (~clh@107-202-133-88.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Quit: clh_)
  • [13:26:27] <mdp> J6
  • [13:26:27] <mru> fiola: what specs would you expect from a "beaglebone 3"?
  • [13:26:31] <mdp> "nice"
  • [13:26:33] <av500> mdp: ah right
  • [13:26:50] <av500> fiola: by your logic if I made a beagle with a XEON I would win
  • [13:27:10] <av500> and by your logic nobody would have bought an arduino
  • [13:27:10] <mru> xeagle
  • [13:27:17] <av500> it does not even have 640k
  • [13:27:40] * scrp3l (~scrp3l@178.63.197.92) has joined #beagle
  • [13:27:45] <mdp> av500, if you look at the roadmap, there's nothing cost effective that is in the same league as the allwinner roadmap
  • [13:28:00] <av500> there never was
  • [13:28:03] <mdp> that area has been conceded
  • [13:28:08] * woglinde_ (~henning@g229045234.adsl.alicedsl.de) has joined #beagle
  • [13:28:58] <mdp> av500, I just mean they started making expensive media-capable parts after dm3730
  • [13:29:07] <fiola> av500: There's a big difference: nobody does development *ON* an Arduino (excepting a few that have embedded interpreters on the board), whereas it is normal to do development *ON* a Beagle class board. Therefore extra performance is always good.
  • [13:29:15] * woglinde (~henning@g229047004.adsl.alicedsl.de) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
  • [13:29:26] <mru> developing on a beagle is anything but normal
  • [13:29:27] <av500> people program happily on netbooks
  • [13:29:40] <av500> even though there are i7 notebooks
  • [13:29:45] <mru> "sick and twisted" might be a good start at describing it
  • [13:29:52] <av500> and cheap laptops outsells high end ones
  • [13:29:55] <av500> same for PCs
  • [13:30:19] <thurbad> we prototyped on beagles... not quite the same as developing on them though
  • [13:32:08] <thurbad> still have a beagle based design but we do most of our development off our hardware
  • [13:32:41] <mru> thurbad: I think he's talking about running compilers on the board
  • [13:32:53] <mru> nobody in their right mind does that
  • [13:33:07] <thurbad> I did some native compilation... quickly learned how not to do that :)
  • [13:33:53] * tasslehoff (~tasslehof@77.40.182.98) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8)
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  • [13:35:56] <fiola> Somewhere in region of infinite Raspberry Pi users seem perfectly happy to run compilers of many kinds on their board, and it's a lowly ARM11. Cross-compilation is very much a minority interest.
  • [13:36:15] <mru> they are not in their right minds
  • [13:36:25] <mru> if they were, they would not have bought an rpi in the first place
  • [13:37:41] <thurbad> for instance it took 45 minutes to compile natively last time I did
  • [13:37:51] <mru> compile what?
  • [13:38:01] <thurbad> the same code takes under 4 minutes to compile off board
  • [13:38:11] <av500> mru: *it*
  • [13:38:29] <av500> fiola: if people are happy to compile on the baord, where is the issue then?
  • [13:38:31] <crashovrd> i setup distcc
  • [13:38:44] <crashovrd> scratchbox was a huge pain to get working
  • [13:38:47] <crashovrd> i like simple
  • [13:38:51] <mru> crashovrd: that's just skirting the issue
  • [13:39:29] <suihkulokki> fiola seems to want a pony and eat it
  • [13:39:30] <mru> people fail to realise the distinction between the product and the system that builds the product
  • [13:39:46] <fiola> crashovrd: distcc is a good idea, but you wouldn't recommend that to beginners.
  • [13:40:02] <mdp> I figured I was an oddball developing 6502 code *on* the beaglebone..now I find out it's commonplace..cool.
  • [13:40:05] <mru> if you buy a car, it doesn't include all the tools and machinery needed to build a car
  • [13:40:09] <thurbad> my point is, it is worth your time to learn to crosscompile
  • [13:40:29] <fiola> suihkulokki: You don't want more power in the next Beagleboard either, correct?
  • [13:40:40] <panto> mdp, developing for something that has a max object size of 64K is no problem on the bone
  • [13:40:42] <crashovrd> there are some packages where crosscompiling is worse than waiting for the compile on the device
  • [13:40:49] <crashovrd> distcc was the compromise
  • [13:40:54] <panto> getting into the MB range is another thing
  • [13:40:59] <mdp> panto, I thought it was revolutionary. *sniff*
  • [13:41:02] <mru> crashovrd: the only one I know of is perl
  • [13:41:03] <crashovrd> it allows all the ./config voodo to work
  • [13:41:16] <crashovrd> while useing the speedy PC to do the actual work
  • [13:41:24] <mdp> panto, I'll add that 6502 MMU to make things crazier then
  • [13:41:30] <thurbad> I don't think we can even compile some of our code onboard without running out of memory now :/
  • [13:41:40] <panto> mdp, +1 BERZERKER POINTS
  • [13:42:11] <suihkulokki> fiola: embedded developer boards are always compromises, you don't get everything you want
  • [13:42:13] <mru> thurbad: I see nothing noteworthy in that
  • [13:42:16] <mdp> panto, http://www.6502.org/users/andre/icapos/mmu65.html
  • [13:42:32] <mdp> panto, I'll send my family on vacation for a year so I can hack ;)
  • [13:42:35] <thurbad> it's not a good thing.. just an interesting factoid
  • [13:42:38] <mru> very few PCs are capable of compiling google chrome, yet they happily run it
  • [13:42:45] <suihkulokki> if you just want more cpu power, you can look at odroid-u2 for example, but then you lose beagles io options
  • [13:43:16] <panto> engineering is all about compromises
  • [13:43:32] <panto> the premise of the bone is that it's a good compromise, that's all
  • [13:43:35] <mru> engineering is about solving the actual problem
  • [13:44:06] <crashovrd> still need an official distro like RPi has
  • [13:44:07] <fiola> suihkulokki: The BeagleBone Black isn't just a developer board. As the announcement made very clear, it's also intended as competition in the Raspberry Pi niche. They're going for mindshare among techies, makers and educators.
  • [13:44:10] <panto> mru, solving the problem is easy
  • [13:44:18] <crashovrd> its SO NICE to be able to grab an image and write to SD
  • [13:44:19] <panto> solving the problem and making a profit, that's the hard part
  • [13:44:21] <crashovrd> boot and go
  • [13:44:25] <mru> panto: without being wasteful
  • [13:44:31] <crashovrd> and then when it comes time to file bug reports
  • [13:44:36] <crashovrd> they are actually reproducable
  • [13:44:50] <crashovrd> instead of having to wonder wtf randome patch from which kernel tree was included
  • [13:44:54] <thurbad> they already have the techies and makers... probably not educators so much
  • [13:44:57] <mru> crashovrd: wtf does "official distro" mean?
  • [13:45:17] <crashovrd> a distro built to work OOB on the board
  • [13:45:27] <crashovrd> including all the binary blobs & drivers
  • [13:45:34] <mru> beagles can run angstrom, ubuntu, fedora, debian, opensuse, arch, etc, etc
  • [13:45:38] * mdp tries to determine the difference between a developer board and "techies, makers, and educators"
  • [13:45:40] * mdp ponders
  • [13:45:45] * clh_ (~clh@38.110.18.125) has joined #beagle
  • [13:45:58] * mdp receives the answer.
  • [13:45:58] <crashovrd> so the 3d hardware works oob on all those distros?
  • [13:46:04] <mdp> "Marketing"
  • [13:46:16] <thurbad> 3d works on angstrom
  • [13:46:34] <mru> debian might be squeamish about binary blobs
  • [13:46:55] <crashovrd> RPI set up their own distro Raspian
  • [13:46:56] <mru> but that's what defines them
  • [13:47:04] <crashovrd> you install it and EVERYTHING works
  • [13:47:07] <crashovrd> no fussing around
  • [13:47:16] <mru> that's because there's so little that _can_ work
  • [13:47:20] <mdp> everything works, except what doesn't work
  • [13:47:38] <thurbad> if something doesn't work, good luck fixing it
  • [13:47:49] <mru> getting usb and sgx working on a beagle is trivial too
  • [13:47:53] <crashovrd> see u guys dont see the issue cuz u dont use the 'frills'
  • [13:48:05] <KotH> crashovrd: you are aware that the blackbone comes with an sd card that contains angstr?m?
  • [13:48:06] <panto> what are those 'frills'?
  • [13:48:07] <crashovrd> if there is no 3d/video, there is no point of me using the platform
  • [13:48:07] <thurbad> the frills?
  • [13:48:12] <KotH> crashovrd: isnt that official enough for you?
  • [13:48:25] * davidhadas (~quassel@IGLD-84-229-4-178.inter.net.il) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  • [13:48:27] <thurbad> I'm running 3d and video.. what other frills do I need?
  • [13:48:37] <mru> KotH: he's a hater, and haters gonna hate
  • [13:48:43] <KotH> yeah..
  • [13:48:52] <crashovrd> KotH, if there is a link to an image i can use to reflash then its a start
  • [13:49:02] <KotH> afaik there is
  • [13:49:04] <crashovrd> angstrom was the answer for BB (original)
  • [13:49:08] <KotH> and if there isnt, it's trivial to build one yourself
  • [13:49:09] <panto> there's a link to the source of the image too
  • [13:49:13] <crashovrd> and it always made me cry
  • [13:49:23] <crashovrd> you had to use some web page to build your own image
  • [13:49:31] <crashovrd> and it was never reproducable
  • [13:49:33] <thurbad> no you don;t
  • [13:49:35] <crashovrd> you could not tell someone else
  • [13:49:40] <mru> "you suck because you're not *exactly* like this other thing I already know how to use"
  • [13:49:42] <panto> that web page is just a helper
  • [13:49:46] <crashovrd> hey! go download this. install, then u can run my crap
  • [13:49:52] <thurbad> angstrom builds fine on my machines
  • [13:50:13] <panto> ok, so there are images
  • [13:50:13] <KotH> crashovrd: for comparison: i build a linux system using buildroot for the pandaboard from scratch within two hours... and that includes reading up on what buildroot is
  • [13:50:19] * stealth`` (~Diego@HSI-KBW-091-089-004-183.hsi2.kabelbw.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  • [13:50:26] <panto> there are sources so that you can build the image yourself
  • [13:50:28] <KotH> crashovrd: embedded linux is trivial these days
  • [13:50:33] <thurbad> there are images to make it easier to start/get running
  • [13:50:38] <KotH> crashovrd: as long as you know how linux works
  • [13:50:43] <crashovrd> its fine if its for my use. but u need something that everyone can share
  • [13:50:45] <crashovrd> so its the same
  • [13:50:47] <panto> there are sources so that you can modify and add your own
  • [13:50:50] <KotH> crashovrd: if you dont. well... dont get into embedded linux unless you want to learn it
  • [13:50:58] <crashovrd> not what ever random patches and packages they strung together
  • [13:51:07] <KotH> crashovrd: _we_ dont need something that _everyone_ can share
  • [13:51:14] <crashovrd> so, yes, i can roll my own distro and image
  • [13:51:17] <KotH> crashovrd: _you_ assume that _we_ need _that_
  • [13:51:24] <crashovrd> but its not something i care to maintain and publish
  • [13:51:31] <KotH> you dont have to
  • [13:51:37] <thurbad> ok... so this is a rant, not a discussion...
  • [13:51:43] <crashovrd> oh, dont get me wrong. im not mandating anything
  • [13:51:45] <KotH> thurbad: it has been from the beginning
  • [13:51:47] <crashovrd> not demanding anything
  • [13:51:52] <crashovrd> not saying you HAVE to do it
  • [13:52:06] <crashovrd> just saying thats one of the reason i enjoy the RPI so much
  • [13:52:06] <mru> people who require a cookie-cutter distro are better off using a PC
  • [13:52:07] <mdp> panto, first thing I noticed when I evaluated RPi was the lack of dma support for spi. immediate fail for maker use of the adafruit 1.8" display.
  • [13:52:28] <crashovrd> someone else worries about keeping the system current. and i can just worry about my code
  • [13:52:28] <thurbad> KotH: probably
  • [13:52:36] <crashovrd> and i can share it with the world
  • [13:52:45] <panto> share what?
  • [13:52:50] <KotH> crashovrd: look. the target of the beagle series are people who need an inexpensive, but still powerfull arm embedded system. it is not meant for the general, uneducated public
  • [13:52:51] <mru> crashovrd: and what will you do when "they" stop maintaining it for you?
  • [13:52:54] <mdp> panto, and no real docs to fix it ;)
  • [13:52:56] <bradfa> cry
  • [13:53:13] <KotH> crashovrd: unlike the rpi you need to have a clue for the bones
  • [13:53:14] <panto> if it's an app you do, what is so special that needs an RPi to work?
  • [13:53:18] <shapr> letothe2nd: Can I haz BeagleBone Black Right now?
  • [13:53:37] <panto> the point of the bone is not to hack something that will only work on the bone
  • [13:53:40] <fiola> Isn't there a Beaglebone-ready image of a full Linux like Debian ready for download?
  • [13:53:44] * boreeed (1f0ddf3c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.31.13.223.60) has joined #beagle
  • [13:53:46] * suihkulokki (~nchip@afflict.kos.to) has left #beagle
  • [13:53:49] <shapr> KotH: I think the goal of small boards is so people can get their own clue.
  • [13:53:59] <mru> fiola: yes, there are many such images
  • [13:53:59] <KotH> crashovrd: and that "clue" is the big difference between what you get for you money for the rpi and the beagles
  • [13:54:00] <panto> is to do things in a way that is transferable to any other design
  • [13:54:12] <shapr> fiola: The web pages claim that Ubuntu runs on the BeagleBoards, I don't have one myself.
  • [13:54:16] <mru> crashovrd: said "clue" is also what we have and you do not
  • [13:54:25] <crashovrd> lol
  • [13:54:29] <KotH> shapr: nah.. you need to have some clue to get a beagle working. there are no dummy friendly exact steps out there
  • [13:54:30] <agmlego> crashovrd: Just as a point? Raspbian was not orginially affiliated with the Rspberry Pi Foundation at all.
  • [13:54:37] <fiola> shapr: BeagleBone != Beagleboard
  • [13:54:54] <shapr> Oh, too bad. I was going to buy a BeagleBone in hopes of being able to bootstrape my own clue :-(
  • [13:55:12] <thurbad> and another big difference.. #rpi would have banned you by now for thinking differently from the crowd :)
  • [13:55:14] <KotH> shapr: but mind you: having a clue does not mean you know how to do it. you can learn it as you get the beagle working, but you need to have enough clue to read how to do that
  • [13:55:22] <shapr> thurbad: Hm, they've been friendly to me.
  • [13:55:43] * mdp kicks thurbad for thought crimes
  • [13:55:54] <thurbad> ... ouch
  • [13:56:23] * panto tries to derail the channel back to trolling ... and guns
  • [13:56:25] <shapr> Are there any places where the BeagleBone Black is not sold out?
  • [13:56:30] <panto> and chocolate
  • [13:56:32] <mdp> panto, you had me at guns
  • [13:56:44] <shapr> Salut panto! Ca Va?
  • [13:56:45] <panto> those AR15s... those bullets...
  • [13:56:46] <bradfa> shapr, is there any place that will actually put a black in a box and put a shipping label on it?
  • [13:56:48] <fiola> shapr: announcement said "Full release in May"
  • [13:56:54] <crashovrd> so.... thats a 'No, there will not be an official distro"?
  • [13:56:55] <crashovrd> :D
  • [13:57:01] <crashovrd> u guys are so hard to read
  • [13:57:02] <mdp> http://26-26-54.hardwarebug.org/123
  • [13:57:02] <thurbad> chocolate bullets :)
  • [13:57:08] <panto> what's closest to original distro is angstrom
  • [13:57:12] <panto> it will ship with it
  • [13:57:12] <KotH> shapr: when i did my first embedded linux thing, i didnt know how to do it. i got a panda, installed a pre done image to verify that the hardware worked. then googled a day to learn how cross compilation and all the rest worked, what options i had on the build system etc ...
  • [13:57:41] <KotH> shapr: on the second day, i had a working system that i understood and could modify to my needs
  • [13:57:49] * letothe2nd gets the impression that KotH is still a n00b ;)
  • [13:57:52] <bradfa> you can always learn the quite hard way -> http://cross-lfs.org
  • [13:57:55] <mdp> KotH, you followed rule #3?
  • [13:57:57] * boreeed (1f0ddf3c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.31.13.223.60) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  • [13:58:02] <thurbad> official is just a fancy way of saying less options
  • [13:58:03] <KotH> letothe2nd: in terms of embedded linux, i am a n00b :)
  • [13:58:04] <shapr> Well, I've used Linux lots, not up to bradfa's LFS link...
  • [13:58:06] <crashovrd> i know how to churn cream into butter too. doesnt mean i want to
  • [13:58:07] <letothe2nd> KotH: hrhr
  • [13:58:08] <panto> hi shapr
  • [13:58:08] <KotH> mdp: rule #3?
  • [13:58:12] <bradfa> shapr, go read it, then
  • [13:58:13] <mdp> KotH, http://26-26-54.hardwarebug.org/30
  • [13:58:27] <crashovrd> modern convience is the point i was trying to make
  • [13:58:28] <shapr> Nah, I have other things I need to do, I don't have time for linux from scratch rigt now.
  • [13:58:28] <KotH> mdp: exactly
  • [13:58:35] <mdp> KotH, that's just crazy!
  • [13:58:48] <shapr> But I do have Arduinos and Raspberry Pis, and I like them. And the BeagleBone Black seems to be more of the same.
  • [13:59:03] <thurbad> and on the 7th day Koth rested :P
  • [13:59:09] <shapr> My real goal is to get Haskell working nicely on an embedded system, and the Raspberry Pi doesn't do that terribly well.
  • [13:59:12] <mdp> shapr, you probably missed the details then
  • [13:59:24] <KotH> mdp: you have met me. you should know that i am CRAZY! :)
  • [13:59:28] <panto> shapr, ...ok....
  • [13:59:33] <mru> how can "getting haskell working" be a goal?
  • [13:59:33] <mdp> KotH, indeed you are
  • [13:59:41] <KotH> thurbad: actually, i rested on that very evening ;)
  • [13:59:43] <mru> haskell is just a programming language
  • [13:59:46] <shapr> mru: Because that means I either need a much faster swap space, or more memory.
  • [13:59:53] <fiola> crashovrd: It might be a problem of community size. RPi has so many people that there is always a sizeable bunch ready to say Yes to any idea, and work at it. Here you mostly get No answers from the old guard, "Don't do this", "Don't do that", "We don't need this", etc.
  • [14:00:06] <mdp> real goals must involve node.js
  • [14:00:06] <shapr> I've heard the emmc on the BlackBone is especially fast, any idea where I can get more detail?
  • [14:00:07] <panto> I disagree there
  • [14:00:08] <thurbad> it was a bible joke (in case you didn't get the reference)
  • [14:00:24] * quanstro (4aa61dfd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.166.29.253) has joined #beagle
  • [14:00:35] <letothe2nd> mdp: that is #105
  • [14:00:37] <panto> maybe the old guards have gone that path already years ago and are trying to warn you about it
  • [14:00:43] <letothe2nd> mdp: http://26-26-54.hardwarebug.org/105
  • [14:00:47] <bradfa> fiola, I think here you get people saying, "no, we won't do it for you, but here, go look at that and make it work yourself"
  • [14:01:01] <mru> a proper goal is a solution to some problem, which may or may not involve haskell
  • [14:01:04] <mdp> hehe
  • [14:01:05] <bradfa> fiola, if you wave money around, people here will jump
  • [14:01:13] <bradfa> otherwise, learn!
  • [14:01:14] <mru> running haskell is never a goal in itself
  • [14:01:15] * mdp bounces
  • [14:01:22] <shapr> mru: You are free to question my goals, I don't mind at all :-)
  • [14:01:27] <mru> unless you're paid to make it available as a tool for others
  • [14:01:32] <letothe2nd> mru: might goals involve curry?
  • [14:01:37] <thurbad> I've gotten lots of help in #beagle.. just have to be patient and put plenty of work in yourself, you're not gonna get spoonfed here
  • [14:01:38] <shapr> No, I do this because I want to! What better reason is there?
  • [14:01:42] <mru> letothe2nd: sure, why not
  • [14:01:54] <panto> go for it then
  • [14:01:57] <KotH> fiola: that's not true. but the crowd here knows what makes sense on an embedded system and what doesnt. you can listen to them and learn or disregard their ideas and do the mistakes they warn you from
  • [14:02:25] <bradfa> KotH, then again, we're talking about embedded systems that have more ram than I have any idea what to do with
  • [14:02:35] <thurbad> making mistakes is one of the best ways to learn as long as there's no smoking board involved
  • [14:02:35] <bradfa> and mmu's
  • [14:02:43] <shapr> The neat thing about the Pi (and I assume the Beagle*) is that it's not much of an embedded system anymore. It's a real Linux system, usable as a small server, etc
  • [14:02:43] <quanstro> dumb question; where can i buy a beaglebone black?
  • [14:02:50] <KotH> fiola: having a big crowd of people who are happy to jump onto each and every newfangled idea does not mean they know anthing about what they are doing.
  • [14:02:56] <bradfa> quanstro, mouser, special comp
  • [14:02:58] <thurbad> at the moment.. they're probably all presold :/
  • [14:03:02] <KotH> fiola: or to put it differently: eat shit! millions of flys cannot be wrong!
  • [14:03:05] <quanstro> thanks!
  • [14:03:10] <KotH> bradfa: hehe.. true!
  • [14:03:19] <shapr> What's special comp?
  • [14:03:23] <bradfa> special computing
  • [14:03:26] <bradfa> company on the internet
  • [14:03:26] <mdp> hehe, TI black site is /.ed
  • [14:03:28] <bradfa> sells beagles
  • [14:03:30] <KotH> bradfa: i'm still astonished that my cellphone has more of everything than my pc 10y ago... but only half the speed
  • [14:03:47] <bradfa> KotH, law of software developers
  • [14:03:52] <panto> mdp, have they put the bone site running on a bone?
  • [14:03:54] <KotH> wirth's law?
  • [14:03:54] <bradfa> processor goes faster -> more shiny!
  • [14:04:06] <panto> bradfa, unfortunately that's dead
  • [14:04:07] <shapr> What's it Wirth to you?
  • [14:04:17] <bradfa> panto, I'm dead?
  • [14:04:24] <thurbad> special comp is backordered btw
  • [14:04:29] <panto> no more exponentially faster single cores anymore
  • [14:04:33] <mru> blackordered
  • [14:04:38] <fiola> KotH: Soimetimes, yeah, but it descends into fanboism a lot too. For example the answer I got to the i.MX6 question was totally negative, despite the fact that there are tons of engineering applications that can make good use of a higher power CPU to do on-board processing. Instant rejection was unwarranted.
  • [14:04:38] <KotH> shapr: i know him, and shook his hand
  • [14:04:40] <shapr> The cores can be made faster, they'll just melt.
  • [14:04:40] <bradfa> panto, ah, that's OK
  • [14:04:53] <mru> fiola: your imx6 question made no sense
  • [14:04:57] <mru> it was a non-question
  • [14:04:57] <shapr> KotH: Cool! I know lots of the functional programmers.
  • [14:04:57] * vvu|Mobile (~vvu|Mobil@212.201.44.245) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [14:05:00] <KotH> fiola: what did you ask?
  • [14:05:05] <shapr> KotH: Pascal is not my thing :-)
  • [14:05:06] <panto> and that why you see all this latest small inexpensive craze
  • [14:05:09] <quanstro> i can't find the beaglebone black on mauser.
  • [14:05:11] <KotH> shapr: wirth is _not_ a functional programmer
  • [14:05:13] <mdp> panto, it's on an arduino with a wiznet enet shield ;)
  • [14:05:20] <panto> lol
  • [14:05:21] <KotH> shapr: he is a dinosaur who refuses to go extinct
  • [14:05:29] <shapr> KotH: I totally agree, just saying I walk the other side of the street.
  • [14:05:31] <panto> fiola, there's a bias obviously
  • [14:05:36] <panto> the channel is name #beagle afterall
  • [14:05:38] <fiola> KotH: I asked whether TI had an i.MX6 class SoC for the Beagleboard 3 (which someone else mentioned).
  • [14:05:39] <bradfa> quanstro, it's on the front page!
  • [14:05:43] <shapr> Unlike logic programmers who walk both sides of the street!
  • [14:05:51] <KotH> shapr: well.. he had some pretty decent ideas 30 years ago...but the world one way and wirth went the other
  • [14:05:52] <bradfa> quanstro, http://www.mouser.com
  • [14:06:00] <panto> but no-one said that the imx6 was a bad cpu
  • [14:06:05] <mdp> folks, if you start here http://beagleboard.org/Products/BeagleBone+Black then the drop down has the direct links to each distributor
  • [14:06:07] <KotH> fiola: ah.. asking the wrong thing in the wrong way
  • [14:06:07] <bradfa> panto, imx6 is a bad cpu
  • [14:06:08] <shapr> KotH: Oberon was srsly awesome no matter which way you look at it.
  • [14:06:20] <panto> what we questioned is why would you want more speed?
  • [14:06:23] <KotH> fiola: you dont want a beagle3, you want a high power board
  • [14:06:27] * alan_o (~alan@c-68-62-254-211.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) has joined #beagle
  • [14:06:30] <panto> especially since that would make the board more expensive
  • [14:06:31] <KotH> fiola: these are available. but these are not beagle
  • [14:06:33] <bradfa> hola alan_o
  • [14:06:43] <KotH> shapr: the language or the OS?
  • [14:06:48] <panto> we've seen that RPi's rise to fame is only attributed to low price
  • [14:06:50] <KotH> salut alan_o
  • [14:06:51] <quanstro> bradfa, can you send me the link you're using, cause mauser has no beagle on the front page i get.
  • [14:06:52] <shapr> KotH: both!
  • [14:06:58] <panto> cause as a board it's totally unremarkable
  • [14:07:01] <KotH> shapr: i strongly disagree :)
  • [14:07:07] <mdp> mmm 8997 "on order" at mouser ;)
  • [14:07:08] <bradfa> http://www.mouser.com/new/beagleboardorg/beagleboneblack/
  • [14:07:24] <mdp> bradfa, that direct link is even in the drop down
  • [14:07:33] <alan_o> hey bradfa and KotH :)
  • [14:07:33] <mdp> bradfa, this is all very difficult ;)
  • [14:07:45] <shapr> KotH: When Windows 3.11 and DOS were the other options, Oberon the OS was amazing.
  • [14:07:51] <bradfa> mdp, you can bounce while on IRC! :)
  • [14:07:58] <mdp> bradfa, our google skills are l33t!
  • [14:08:07] * jkridner|work (~jkridner@pdpc/supporter/active/jkridner) has joined #beagle
  • [14:08:18] <bradfa> mdp, of course, we're on #beagle, it's a prereq
  • [14:08:33] <KotH> shapr: ah.. welll
  • [14:08:37] <bradfa> I'm sure CCO likes the backorders :)
  • [14:08:41] <panto> hi jkridner|work
  • [14:08:42] <quanstro> bradfa, thanks. btw the element14 link in the dropdown does not work
  • [14:08:43] <panto> hi alan_o
  • [14:08:43] <KotH> shapr: i've first seen oberon somewhen around 2002
  • [14:08:48] <jkridner|work> hi panto
  • [14:08:49] <KotH> shapr: was not amazed at all
  • [14:08:51] <alan_o> hi panto
  • [14:08:53] <bradfa> quanstro, I have no idea
  • [14:09:25] <mdp> jkridner|work, distributor dropdown for element14 broken on beagleboard.org...please fix
  • [14:09:38] <bradfa> I love how blacks are "sold out!" when no one's shipping yet (as far as I can tell)
  • [14:09:47] <shapr> KotH: I booted Oberon off a 1.44mb floppy, was thoroughly amazed to get a free operating system. But Linux wasn't really usable at that time.
  • [14:09:49] <panto> it's marketting
  • [14:09:52] <mdp> I'm putting my old ones on ebay
  • [14:09:54] <alan_o> bradfa: that's who you generate hype :)
  • [14:10:05] <KotH> shapr: damn.. you're old
  • [14:10:05] * panto looks at his rev A1s
  • [14:10:10] <bradfa> alan_o, ah, ok, I've now passed marketing 101 :)
  • [14:10:13] <shapr> bradfa: The ars technica article says they go on sale today
  • [14:10:16] <KotH> shapr: i think mdp has some spare canes if you need one
  • [14:10:20] <mdp> I will sell my A1s (signed by an obscure TI developer) for just $500/each
  • [14:10:21] * bradfa looks at his A4 with bkopts blown...
  • [14:10:23] * alan_o hands bradfa his certificate
  • [14:10:28] <fiola> Just an artifact, in reality the production release isn't out till May, it said so in the announcement.
  • [14:10:28] <shapr> KotH: It's true, I've been writing code for thirty years.
  • [14:10:45] <mru> lol
  • [14:10:46] <mdp> bradfa, I can't sell my A4 until I get one that actually has a PRU ;)
  • [14:10:46] <alan_o> mdp: don't put those on ebay. PM ME!!!!
  • [14:10:54] <bradfa> shapr, I'm almost that old!
  • [14:10:55] * mdp PMs alan_o
  • [14:10:59] <shapr> bradfa: awesome!
  • [14:11:15] <quanstro> bradfa, the mauser link you posted works. thanks. and sorry for the noise.
  • [14:11:23] * quanstro (4aa61dfd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.166.29.253) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
  • [14:11:26] <bradfa> quanstro, it's called mouser, not mauser
  • [14:11:29] <bradfa> but you're welcome
  • [14:11:38] * shapr checks the mauser domain name
  • [14:11:42] <KotH> bradfa: too late!
  • [14:11:42] <alan_o> bradfa: I think it's mansr
  • [14:11:48] <KotH> bradfa: you're getting slow! ;)
  • [14:11:48] <mdp> bradfa, you are pusing 65yo in "cynicism years". I read your g+ posts.
  • [14:11:52] * bradfa loves avnet, everything on the site is backordered 26 weeks :)
  • [14:12:02] <KotH> lol
  • [14:12:30] <panto> bradfa, that's distro speak for 'we ain't ordering anything until you buy it'
  • [14:12:49] <alan_o> bradfa: That's distribution 101 ^^
  • [14:12:59] * clh__ (~clh@38.110.18.125) has joined #beagle
  • [14:13:02] <mdp> I've heard that call the "lie-wall" as a tribute to "paywalls"
  • [14:13:09] * bradfa has now passed marketing 101 and distribution 101 classes, all in one day! On the Internets!
  • [14:13:12] <mdp> never believe what the disty web site claims
  • [14:13:24] <bradfa> mdp, believe what the pretty sales lady says
  • [14:13:28] * clh_ (~clh@38.110.18.125) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  • [14:13:29] <mru> never believe _anything_
  • [14:13:32] <KotH> damn
  • [14:13:37] <KotH> mru: i was going to say that!
  • [14:13:37] * florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [14:13:39] <panto> I believe!
  • [14:13:44] <mdp> bradfa, that's why they are always the top salespeople in the tech industry
  • [14:13:45] * KotH is getting old and slow
  • [14:13:46] <panto> I believe I can fly!
  • [14:13:51] * KotH blames panto
  • [14:13:54] * panto exorcises Celine out of his mind
  • [14:13:55] * bradfa watches panto fly!
  • [14:13:59] <KotH> panto: kelly-fan?
  • [14:14:16] <panto> not really
  • [14:14:23] <panto> just trolling bro
  • [14:14:24] * mru suspects panto does not so much fly as plummet
  • [14:14:44] <bradfa> mru, is your paint dry yet?
  • [14:15:09] <mru> bradfa: on the second coating now
  • [14:15:24] <bradfa> progress!
  • [14:15:39] <bradfa> painting, it's just like building gcc! needs 2 coats
  • [14:15:49] * panto goes back trying to unravel gpmc on 3.8
  • [14:16:55] * shashi859 (67047d1e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.103.4.125.30) has joined #beagle
  • [14:17:14] * bradfa goes back to mmu-less micro and ccsv5
  • [14:17:37] * av500 goes back to just plain cry
  • [14:18:27] * ChuckB (3f90844d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.63.144.132.77) has joined #beagle
  • [14:19:12] <jkridner|work> hmmm.... website is quite slow today.
  • [14:19:27] * KotH hands av500 a big pack of tempo
  • [14:20:21] <mranostay> panto: Cher fan?
  • [14:20:41] <panto> mranostay, how did you know?
  • [14:20:45] <panto> are you a wizard?
  • [14:21:13] <mru> more likely a lizard
  • [14:21:19] <mru> the lizard people have spies everywhere
  • [14:23:47] * ChuckB (3f90844d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.63.144.132.77) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  • [14:26:57] * Uzix (~bnc@176.194.133.162) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  • [14:27:00] <alan_o> jkridner|work: you know what would be a great gsoc project, is for someone to do an extreme boottime bootloader for the beagle, like Alexandre Belloni did in his presentation at ELC-E (he used Freescale). He had an OpenGL app running in 700ms. Of course his came from nand, but I wonder how fast we could make it?
  • [14:27:52] <KotH> alan_o: which presentation was that?
  • [14:28:10] <KotH> alan_o: a.. scratch that... i should google myself
  • [14:28:24] <alan_o> KotH: hehe :)
  • [14:28:45] <KotH> alan_o: i'm getting old and lazy ;)
  • [14:28:57] <alan_o> it was impressive. you could go up and push the reset button yourself.
  • [14:29:11] <av500> well, store raw video in NAND
  • [14:29:16] <mdp> alan_o, fwiw, there's been several public version of similar things done like that. the demos are the same things people do for production "fast boot"
  • [14:29:19] <av500> and use MLO to pipe it to the LCD
  • [14:29:20] <alan_o> av500: hehe
  • [14:29:26] <av500> done
  • [14:29:37] <mranostay> av500: 20A USB!
  • [14:29:47] <mdp> alan_o, definitely can be done for one board and h/w config..makes a great demo
  • [14:30:49] * Uzix (~bnc@176.194.133.162) has joined #beagle
  • [14:31:08] <woglinde_> mranostay atomic?
  • [14:31:40] <KotH> woglinde_: atomic clock?
  • [14:31:43] <alan_o> mdp: yeah, the process he went through didn't sound earth shattering. It's just a matter of having one for our board that we can point to and make hackaday articles that say "beaglebone boots in $n seconds" which makes "total speed junkies" want to buy it.
  • [14:32:25] <alan_o> you know, the ones who want to "wring every last cycle out of [their] cpu"
  • [14:32:55] <shapr> I just want more PWM pins!
  • [14:32:56] <mdp> alan_o, yep, one "trick" is having all dma channels loading bits so the entire internal bus/crossbar bandwidth is saturated
  • [14:33:10] <woglinde_> koth 20A usb
  • [14:33:22] <fiola> Just found this after seeing the PRUs mentioned in BBB's feature list --- https://github.com/beagleboard/am335x_pru_package
  • [14:33:25] <mdp> plus all the other usual stuff
  • [14:33:27] <KotH> an 20A atomic usb clock?
  • [14:33:50] <alan_o> KotH: A 20A USB vacuum cleaner
  • [14:34:02] <mdp> fiola, same as has been used on the previous beaglebone and many projects
  • [14:34:21] <fiola> Yep, same device
  • [14:34:29] <alan_o> fiola: it is the ultimate bit-banger
  • [14:34:53] <fiola> mdp: Got a link to someone who's blogged their PRU project?
  • [14:35:19] <fiola> alan_o: Bet it's a step up from the Amiga blitter :P
  • [14:35:53] <mdp> fiola, this guy has http://elinux.org/BeagleBone_6502_RemoteProc_cape
  • [14:36:02] <fiola> Cheers
  • [14:36:22] <mdp> http://blog.boxysean.com/2012/08/12/first-steps-with-the-beaglebone-pru/
  • [14:36:53] <mdp> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1irR4TQ5aMA
  • [14:37:09] <KotH> woha! exact steps!
  • [14:37:19] <KotH> actually: exact steps for bitbanging!
  • [14:37:25] <mdp> https://github.com/mranostay/beagle-nixie/
  • [14:37:39] <mdp> http://hackaday.com/2012/06/26/offloading-vga-generation-onto-a-coprocessor/
  • [14:38:24] <fiola> mdp: Very interesting alternative to using a CPLD or small FPGA for fast interfacing.
  • [14:38:34] <mdp> http://elinux.org/ECE497_BeagleBone_PRU
  • [14:38:39] <mdp> fiola, I know
  • [14:38:48] <mru> eat that, rpi
  • [14:38:49] <mdp> considering it's "free"
  • [14:39:04] <mdp> but really, beaglebone is just "more of the same thing" ;)
  • [14:39:40] <jj2baile> :) The next beagle should feature an FPGA as well
  • [14:40:02] <mdp> http://hipstercircuits.com/beaglebone-pru-ddr-memory-access-the-right-way/
  • [14:40:13] <mdp> jj2baile, why? install an fpga cape
  • [14:40:22] <mdp> that's the point of the design
  • [14:40:25] <fiola> Xilinx come from the opposite end with their Zinq range, they tack an ARM onto their FPGAs :P
  • [14:40:30] <mdp> why add cost to the baseboard?
  • [14:40:35] <mdp> that's insane
  • [14:41:09] <jj2baile> heh
  • [14:41:16] <mdp> fiola, nothing new there
  • [14:41:29] <agmlego> fiola: *Zynq
  • [14:41:50] <mdp> fiola, except they at least made the arm subsystem independent from the fpga portion..unlike the previous ppc405 designs
  • [14:42:05] <mdp> there's never anything new in this industry ;)
  • [14:42:42] * mdp notes that if a blog says it's the "right way" ... it's probably lying
  • [14:42:56] <mru> if it's a blog, it's probably lying
  • [14:43:21] <mdp> +1
  • [14:43:36] <agmlego> If it was written by aq person, directly or indirectly, it is probably lying.,
  • [14:45:06] <mdp> if anything, beagle needs permission and effort put in on a set of "Bone the Hard Way" tutorials ;)
  • [14:45:52] <mdp> that writing/teaching style for the programming ones has my utmost respect
  • [14:45:55] <crashovrd> why not the easy way!
  • [14:46:03] <mdp> there is no easy way
  • [14:46:11] <agmlego> Because the easy way is too easy.
  • [14:46:29] <agmlego> The easy way is buying an off-the-shelf, pre-manufactured device.
  • [14:46:39] <panto> easy fast cheap, pick two
  • [14:46:59] <mdp> with completed s/w that's 100% verified working and 100% support for anything that goes wrong
  • [14:47:06] <agmlego> If you are doing stuff with embedded dev boards, you are by definition already doing it the hard way.
  • [14:47:12] <mdp> and meets 100% of all requirements now and in the future
  • [14:48:02] <mdp> "easy" is buy your Apple device and consume media passively
  • [14:48:16] * shashi859 (67047d1e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.103.4.125.30) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
  • [14:48:22] <mdp> creating is "hard"
  • [14:49:55] <fiola> mdp: I liked the VGA generator you linked, good bit-banging project
  • [14:50:23] <mdp> note that it was done on a relatively ancient arm926 part with a PRU..less capable PRU
  • [14:50:44] <mdp> considering you can do vaga with an 8-bit uC..this is trivial for PRU
  • [14:50:53] <panto> we have high hopes for the PRU, but no time to work on it :)
  • [14:50:53] <mdp> vga*
  • [14:51:24] <mdp> panto, hehe
  • [14:51:37] * panto looks at his TODO list and despairs
  • [14:51:39] * vvu|Mobile (~vvu_mobil@212.201.44.245) has joined #beagle
  • [14:52:03] <mdp> panto, meanwhile, *we* use it successfully again and again ;)
  • [14:52:11] * tsjsieb (~tsjsieb@2001:980:4b3b:1:225:31ff:fe00:ff7a) has left #beagle
  • [14:52:20] <mdp> that is, those willing to do things the "hard way"
  • [14:53:20] <panto> doing things is too hard, let's go shopping
  • [14:53:25] <mdp> amen
  • [14:53:33] <mdp> can we grab some beers too?
  • [14:53:41] <panto> beer's on me
  • [14:54:02] <mdp> as usual, flights to your locale are at a premium ;)
  • [14:54:18] * panto had some nice Frankiskaner yesterday
  • [14:54:34] <mdp> mmm
  • [14:54:34] * Tartarus (trini@pixelshelf.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  • [14:55:34] <mdp> panto, Houblon Chouffe is at our watering hole for the next two months.
  • [14:55:43] <mdp> panto, I mean draft, of course
  • [14:56:12] <panto> nice
  • [14:56:29] <mru> two months, that's a slow turnover
  • [14:56:30] * kiilo (~kiilo@84-73-25-17.dclient.hispeed.ch) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [14:56:31] <mdp> cheese platter with a pair of those yesterday ;) yum
  • [14:56:36] <panto> I mentioned this before, but american beer crafting has been improving steadily the last few years
  • [14:56:40] <CareBear\> friend of mine calls chouffe 'fairy tale beer'
  • [14:57:13] <panto> I wouldn't mind picking up a few blue moons if they were available around here
  • [14:57:30] <mdp> mru, regional chain here changes a set of themed taps on a 1-2 month basis..or until out for the rarer stuff
  • [14:58:02] <mdp> mru, also in clusters..so I have to drive 45 minutes for another brewery's limited availability at a another group of these
  • [14:58:18] * CaTeGoRe (~categore@rideonacloud.com) has joined #beagleboard
  • [14:58:22] <mru> my local has 5 ale pumps, rarely the same selection for more than a couple of days
  • [14:58:23] <wmat> did Newark sell out already of BBBs?
  • [14:58:33] * CaTeGoRe (~categore@rideonacloud.com) has joined #beagle
  • [14:58:53] <wmat> I see "Further stock expected to ship 28 Jun, 2013"
  • [14:58:56] * CaTeGoRe (~categore@rideonacloud.com) has left #beagleboard
  • [14:59:14] <mdp> mru, our rare stuff is gone in days...chouffe they can get enough volume though
  • [15:00:00] * emeb (~ericb@ip72-223-89-10.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #beagle
  • [15:00:12] <mdp> mru, according to the mgmt, the chouffe half barrels turn over every 3 days
  • [15:00:26] <mdp> which I hope is true as that's a good sign
  • [15:00:38] <mru> you don't want a stale barrel
  • [15:00:41] <panto> dammit, you're making thirsty
  • [15:00:42] <mdp> indeed not
  • [15:00:49] <panto> *making me
  • [15:01:12] <mdp> mru, it's easy for them because were talking a restaurant/pub with seating for 150+..turnover is quick
  • [15:01:46] <mdp> anyway, back to work
  • [15:01:53] <mdp> panto, I am also thirsty
  • [15:01:56] * Tartarus (trini@pixelshelf.com) has joined #beagle
  • [15:02:32] <mdp> CareBear\, we're in the drawing for a Chouffe garden gnome from our pub ;)
  • [15:02:49] * pii3 (~void@unaffiliated/pii3) has left #beaglebone
  • [15:02:53] <woglinde_> lalallaaa chocolate from koth
  • [15:03:36] <mru> mdp: I think whoever makes the choices here is simply going for variety
  • [15:04:06] <mdp> mru, what do your ale pumps look like on a given day?
  • [15:04:17] * mdp apparently is not getting back to work
  • [15:04:27] <mru> various regional stuff
  • [15:04:50] <crashovrd> maybe if you guys werent alcoholics, you would be nicer to the n00bs
  • [15:04:52] <mdp> sounds familiar
  • [15:05:08] <mdp> crashovrd, yes, but we live in reality
  • [15:05:11] <mru> crashovrd: it's the noobs that drive us to drinking
  • [15:05:11] <av500> crashovrd: I'm only nice under influence
  • [15:05:37] <av500> is jkridner a bot or does he reply to pings?
  • [15:05:38] <panto> crashovrd, alcohol is the only thing that makes us nice to n00bs
  • [15:05:53] <panto> av500, dunno, have you seen him blink?
  • [15:06:48] <av500> seeing him would be a start
  • [15:07:04] <panto> "I see beagle people"
  • [15:07:17] <mru> famous irc people?
  • [15:08:11] <KotH> crashovrd: i dont drink alcohol
  • [15:08:28] <panto> so what is your excuse for being mean to n00bs then?
  • [15:08:40] <av500> JIHAD!
  • [15:09:27] <panto> you know, one of these days you'll travel to the .us and you'll make a few TSA people really happy to see you
  • [15:09:41] <av500> :)
  • [15:09:59] <av500> I .. I ... I was only quoting KotH
  • [15:10:14] <panto> too late mister
  • [15:10:22] * mru has already been flagged for carrying explosives once
  • [15:10:22] <mdp> heh
  • [15:10:27] <panto> irc logs live for ever!
  • [15:11:08] <mru> of course they didn't find any
  • [15:11:17] * yegorich (3e911ef2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.145.30.242) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  • [15:12:26] <av500> mru: ST40 lives on: http://www.cnx-software.com/2013/04/23/stmicro-stih416-dual-core-media-processor-and-linux-sdk
  • [15:12:41] <mru> st40 is just another name for sh4
  • [15:12:53] <fiola> Realistic caveat in the conclusions here -- http://elinux.org/ECE497_BeagleBone_PRU
  • [15:13:04] <fiola> Right at the bottom
  • [15:13:33] <mru> av500: oh, they're using it as a sequencer for the hw accels
  • [15:13:37] * rbarris (~rbarris@ip68-5-110-182.oc.oc.cox.net) has joined #beagle
  • [15:14:03] * clh__ (~clh@38.110.18.125) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  • [15:14:07] * clh_ (~clh@38.110.18.125) has joined #beagle
  • [15:14:37] <mdp> fiola, as is the case with any proprietary peripheral
  • [15:14:47] <mdp> like a VideoCore4
  • [15:14:49] * fiola nods
  • [15:15:08] <mdp> except it's inaccurate
  • [15:15:24] <mdp> there's people right here that know PRU
  • [15:15:34] <mdp> and you found the canonical docs
  • [15:15:43] <mdp> the real docs are in spruh73c.pdf
  • [15:15:51] <fiola> Videocore is totally closed, so PRU is far more approachable right off the bat
  • [15:15:59] <mdp> go forth and PRUltiply
  • [15:16:11] <mru> forth implementation on pru?
  • [15:16:22] <mdp> mru, it is our destiny
  • [15:19:12] * teralaser (~teralaser@unaffiliated/teralaser) Quit (Quit: CYAL8RALIg4t0r)
  • [15:23:24] * _Naphatul (~Naphatul@46.217.27.108) has joined #beagle
  • [15:25:53] * jackmitchell (~Thunderbi@195.171.99.130) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  • [15:26:26] * mranostay facepalms
  • [15:26:33] <mranostay> you guys aren't that old :)
  • [15:27:02] * Naphatul (~Naphatul@46.217.65.98) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  • [15:27:31] <mranostay> maybe av500 is
  • [15:30:09] <woglinde_> forth?
  • [15:30:12] <woglinde_> why not
  • [15:30:23] * jackmitchell (~Thunderbi@195.171.99.130) has joined #beagle
  • [15:30:29] <woglinde_> hi jackmitchell
  • [15:30:41] * av500 is fourty, not forthy
  • [15:31:07] <woglinde_> I tought fifty
  • [15:31:12] <mdp> forthy-neigh
  • [15:31:51] * ogra_ only remebers fortran ... wasnt forth just a shallow rewrite ?
  • [15:32:12] <mdp> ugh
  • [15:32:21] <ogra_> :)
  • [15:35:11] * rbarris (~rbarris@ip68-5-110-182.oc.oc.cox.net) Quit (Quit: rbarris)
  • [15:35:25] <jackmitchell> woglinde_: hi :)
  • [15:35:30] <jackmitchell> I just had a shocker
  • [15:35:44] <KotH> mranostay: we just had someone claiming he had been programming for over 30 years
  • [15:35:48] <jackmitchell> tried to open a 500MB file in Geany and computer said no
  • [15:35:56] * stealth`` (~Diego@HSI-KBW-091-089-004-183.hsi2.kabelbw.de) has joined #beagle
  • [15:36:47] <jackmitchell> but to be fair it did come back without a restart
  • [15:37:11] * KotH recomends using leafpad
  • [15:37:28] <av500> or edlin
  • [15:37:50] <jackmitchell> I like geany, I just don't think it likes trying to open 500mb image files
  • [15:38:02] <letothe2nd> C-M C-butterfly
  • [15:38:15] <mdp> KotH, I have 87 years of programming experience
  • [15:38:18] <jackmitchell> I thought it was going to try opening the beaglebone.img in an archive manager to view the contents, apparently not
  • [15:38:31] <av500> looks like minecraft
  • [15:38:44] * rbarris (~rbarris@ip68-5-110-182.oc.oc.cox.net) has joined #beagle
  • [15:38:47] <av500> little golden blocks everywhere
  • [15:38:59] <KotH> mdp: billable hours are not real hours
  • [15:39:07] <mdp> KotH, LOL ;)
  • [15:39:12] * woglinde_ (~henning@g229045234.adsl.alicedsl.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  • [15:39:45] <mdp> KotH, I own this one: http://www.despair.com/consulting.html
  • [15:39:50] * rbarris (~rbarris@ip68-5-110-182.oc.oc.cox.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [15:40:21] <KotH> mdp: lol
  • [15:40:35] <KotH> i have a friend working in consulting... have to give him that one
  • [15:40:48] <mdp> it's a must have if you are in the biz ;)
  • [15:40:59] <mdp> btw, just as funny is the description next to it
  • [15:41:29] <mdp> "PERFECT FOR: * The nine people in America who understand what it is consultants actually do"
  • [15:41:58] <mdp> apologies for the .us-centric line, but you get the picture ;)
  • [15:42:22] * yinkum_ (~yinkum@74.126.146.86) has joined #beagle
  • [15:42:24] * KotH paints it blue
  • [15:42:47] <KotH> .o0(why do i get an error message where no error message can be generated?)
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  • [15:48:54] <KotH> enough debugging for a day...
  • [15:48:56] <KotH> bye boys
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  • [15:49:56] <fiola> Yeeha, 28 quid at Farnell --- http://uk.farnell.com/circuitco/bb-bblk-000/beaglebone-black-cortex-a8-dev/dp/2291620
  • [15:50:01] <fiola> "18588 will be available for delivery on 3 May, 2013"
  • [15:50:42] * manuel (d4b77d23@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.183.125.35) Quit (Client Quit)
  • [15:52:47] <CareBear\> damn, that's cheap
  • [15:53:49] <CareBear\> fiola : but the rpi is still cheaper..
  • [15:54:10] <wmat> mranostay: who you calling "not that old"!
  • [15:54:29] * av500 is tired about this "cheaper" argument
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  • [15:55:22] <fiola> CareBear\: It's hardly relevant that broken hardware is cheaper.
  • [15:55:43] <CareBear\> of course it is
  • [15:55:51] <CareBear\> who cares if stuff works
  • [15:55:58] <mdp> msp430 lunchbox is still cheaper
  • [15:56:22] <av500> msp430 lunch is ruined
  • [15:56:29] <av500> 100% price hike
  • [15:56:36] <mdp> no more free lunch
  • [15:56:36] <CareBear\> mdp : lm4f too
  • [15:56:41] <av500> yeah
  • [15:56:51] * manuel (d4b77d23@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.183.125.35) has left #beagle
  • [15:57:14] <mdp> I'm having trouble compiling xbmc for msp430 though
  • [15:57:24] * mranostay steals av500 lunch money
  • [15:57:44] <fiola> Current conversion of $45 to GBP is 29.49, so Farnell's price is indeed good.
  • [15:57:46] <mranostay> mdp: :)
  • [15:58:25] <av500> I'm waiting for people to start selling BBB "kits", with overpriced HDMI cable, PSU, SD card and HDMI cable
  • [15:58:26] * alan_o (~alan@c-68-62-254-211.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
  • [15:58:47] <CareBear\> remember an HDMI cable
  • [15:59:07] <av500> that too
  • [15:59:58] * hitlin37 (~chatzilla@145.107.10.2.mar.surfnet.utelisys.net) has joined #beagle
  • [16:00:14] <fiola> One outfit that's unfortunately going to be screwed by this (unfortunately because they're good guys) is Olimex. Their A13 board is a direct competitor in both niche and price.
  • [16:00:45] <CareBear\> I'm not so sure
  • [16:00:51] <av500> it's a war
  • [16:00:53] <av500> going on
  • [16:00:58] <fiola> Tough though, they'll have to up the ante again.
  • [16:01:01] <fiola> Yep
  • [16:01:02] <av500> casualties everwhere
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  • [16:01:17] <av500> A13 in fact is nice
  • [16:01:22] <av500> one can install XBMC
  • [16:01:24] <CareBear\> I don't think hobbyists are a big market either for circuitco or olimex
  • [16:01:55] <shapr> DigiKey is certainly pushing Olimex on the hobbyist side.
  • [16:02:29] <CareBear\> are there enough hobbyists on digikey for it to matter?
  • [16:02:42] <fiola> CareBear\: Farnell's "18588 will be available for delivery on 3 May, 2013" suggests that Farnell now realizes that the hobbiest market is more than incidental.
  • [16:02:49] * woglinde (~henning@f052228107.adsl.alicedsl.de) has joined #beagle
  • [16:03:28] <CareBear\> fiola : Farnell has a solid b2b profile, it's even impossible to order from them in most of EU as an individual
  • [16:04:14] <CareBear\> fiola : so I think that stock is more about companies using the board in products either as-is, or adding some capes on top
  • [16:04:37] <av500> farnell is selling rpi too
  • [16:04:58] <panto> the disties would sell cheese if it would move
  • [16:05:12] <panto> all they see is the number rpi is pulling
  • [16:05:29] <CareBear\> yup
  • [16:05:56] <fiola> CareBear\: Not so. Although I've been using Farnell since the 80's, this millennium I've always been ordering privately, and their websites are set up for it. RS is a lot more company-oriented, but Farnell even has a community website in Element 14.
  • [16:06:41] <CareBear\> fiola : yes so, uk is not "most EU"
  • [16:07:56] <fiola> Element 14 serves a worldwide hobbiest audience, not just industry professionals.
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  • [16:44:55] <bruce> Zero stock of BB-BBLK-000 at Digikey, Mouser and Newark. :(
  • [16:44:57] <wmat> jkridner: is there a side by side feature comparison of the BBw and BBb somewhere?
  • [16:45:14] * Russ (foobar@pool-173-60-222-174.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) has joined #beagle
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  • [16:47:10] <mranostay> Russ: can't catch a break from you :)
  • [16:47:52] <Russ> dorkbotpdx does seem like a cool place though
  • [16:49:31] <wmat> mranostay: you should ask in #yocto, as lots of them live there
  • [16:50:31] <mranostay> hmm i know :)
  • [16:50:55] <wmat> did they assimilate you?
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  • [16:56:35] <mdp> wmat, if I did the comparison, BBb would be minus the PRU :(
  • [16:57:05] * wmat is just lazy
  • [16:57:33] <mdp> somebody should put a comparison on elinux! :P
  • [16:57:47] <wmat> no doubt
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  • [17:14:54] <fiola> bruce: Farnell UK says "18588 will be available for delivery on 3 May, 2013", so it seems likely that very high volumes have been manufactured.
  • [17:16:45] * rbarris (d8e47814@gateway/web/freenode/ip.216.228.120.20) has joined #beagle
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  • [17:17:32] <bruce> fiola: Thanks. I read somewhere that their initial manufacturing run would involve 100k units so I expect most motivated people should have no trouble buying one, but I was hoping there would be stock today, since it's supposedly launch day.
  • [17:17:50] <bruce> It's no real problem, just me being an impatient kid on Christmas morning.
  • [17:18:02] <fiola> hehe
  • [17:19:29] * anujdeshpande (~anuj@59.99.244.28) has joined #beagle
  • [17:21:51] <rbarris> I got an email from Newark yesterday saying they had stock and ordered one. But haven't got the "it shipped" mail yet.
  • [17:22:11] <rbarris> I was on their pre-reg mail list.
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  • [17:23:47] <bruce> I got that email too, but they've never actually had stock as far as I can see. It was just - launch day comes, so out go the emails.
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  • [17:32:40] <rbarris> did yours say the bit about "Good news! Inventory has arrived in our warehouse. We've only received a limited quantity however, so don't delay, place your order today! We're sure demand will be strong."
  • [17:34:27] <fiola> Marketing spiel should always be ignored, on principle :P
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  • [17:43:25] <jdelgado> I guys just checking around I just purchase the Black so I am pretty excited
  • [17:44:06] <panto> congrats
  • [17:45:40] <jdelgado> thanks I have a lot of reading but I look fwd
  • [17:46:43] <jdelgado> I am thinking of replacing my sprinkler system controller or setup an alarm for the house
  • [17:46:51] <fiola> Take notes as you discover stuff, and blog it :-)
  • [17:47:53] * random123988 (~jasonnour@192.195.154.58) has joined #beagle
  • [17:48:35] <jdelgado> I will I hope that I get it soon trying to find out if it is backorder or not
  • [17:50:00] * robtow (~rob@184-105-177-98.static.hilltopinternet.com) has joined #beagle
  • [17:50:35] <jdelgado> ok guys back to work you guys have a great day
  • [17:50:49] <panto> cya
  • [17:50:52] <fiola> You too :-)
  • [17:50:53] <robtow> Anyone know a site that lists beaglebone black as in stock?
  • [17:50:56] * jdelgado (624598ee@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.69.152.238) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
  • [17:51:07] <_av500_> hi robtow
  • [17:51:11] <_av500_> not yet
  • [17:51:17] <_av500_> ramp up is ongoing
  • [17:51:27] * wmat ebays his A4 :/
  • [17:51:30] <robtow> hey _av500
  • [17:51:36] <wmat> heh, I jest
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  • [17:53:08] * KotH would totaly do that
  • [17:53:16] <KotH> easy way to make lots of money!
  • [17:54:07] <robtow> >:o
  • [17:55:04] <wmat> nah, I couldn't do that
  • [17:55:46] <bruce> rbarris: You got that email from Newark/Element 14, didn't you. Then you click 'Buy now' and...
  • [17:55:52] <bruce> http://www.newark.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?sku=65W6016 Availability: 0.
  • [17:56:23] <rbarris> le sigh
  • [17:57:24] <_av500_> could be -100000
  • [17:57:24] <panto> lead time 66 days
  • [17:57:28] <_av500_> 0 is not os bad
  • [17:57:34] * panto is disappointed... expected 666 days
  • [17:57:40] <fiola> lol
  • [17:57:52] * random123988 (~jasonnour@192.195.154.58) Quit (Quit: leaving)
  • [17:57:53] <robtow> seven weeks is a bit long, best quote I found
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  • [17:58:30] <bruce> I don't think any of those lead-time quotes mean anything. They'll get stock when they get it, which should hopefully be soon.
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  • [17:58:47] <_av500_> yes
  • [17:58:47] * lyakh (~lyakh@dslb-088-076-031-246.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Quit: thanks, bye)
  • [17:58:48] <bruce> I bet the fastest way to get a Black is to place an order at any major distributor.
  • [17:59:03] <_av500_> bruce: or hang out here for 3 years in advance
  • [17:59:07] <_av500_> worked for me
  • [17:59:33] <robtow> digikey?
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  • [17:59:48] <fiola> So, RPi costs ?26.48 and BBBlack costs ?27.87 ... but BBB comes with power brick and USB lead, RPi doesn't. So, BBB is cheaper!
  • [18:00:10] <robtow> has pi; not impressed.
  • [18:00:14] <_av500_> imagine it was 1?? more expensive
  • [18:00:20] <_av500_> nobody would buy it
  • [18:01:05] * hitlin37 (~chatzilla@145.107.10.2.mar.surfnet.utelisys.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  • [18:01:30] <crashovrd> im a impressed the the friendly and courteous community the raspberry pi has in addition to its official all inclusive distribution
  • [18:01:45] <fiola> hahaha
  • [18:01:53] <koen> crashovrd: well played!
  • [18:01:58] <crashovrd> ;)
  • [18:02:35] <bruce> I wish Pi would come out with its camera board already. That'd be a cool accessory.
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  • [18:03:43] * panto works on the bone camera right now...
  • [18:03:54] <robtow> bruce - pi is underpowered by image processing; have been doing some with simplecv - kinda slow.
  • [18:04:06] * fiola feels like saying "PRU" a few times on the RPi forum
  • [18:04:53] <_av500_> I once said MPEG2
  • [18:05:15] <bruce> Pi camera is a bit odd for CV, to be sure. High speed camera, low processing bandwidth. Oops. Still, for the money, it'll find applications.
  • [18:05:40] <bruce> panto: Got a link for your bone camera?
  • [18:06:52] <panto> http://beagleboardtoys.info/index.php?title=BeagleBone_3.1MP_Camera
  • [18:07:10] <panto> not worky yet for 3.8
  • [18:07:15] <panto> I'm on it though
  • [18:07:22] <_av500_> man, 3.1 MP is so last decade
  • [18:07:29] <_av500_> my phonephabletcam has 24
  • [18:07:47] <woglinde> phonetablet?
  • [18:07:56] <_av500_> woglinde: no nitpicking!
  • [18:07:58] <woglinde> I tought it was a phone from archos
  • [18:08:01] <panto> _av500_, I hate you... :)
  • [18:08:05] <woglinde> not tabletphone
  • [18:08:17] <fiola> Here's something hilarious: The forever-broken USB controller on the Pi's BCM2835 SoC would be fixable if Broadcom had a PRU in their chip, because then a PRU could service the USB's 1ms response latency requirement instead of the USB events occasionally being dropped.
  • [18:08:35] <woglinde> fiola beagles have musb
  • [18:08:38] <_av500_> what's an event between friends
  • [18:08:39] <robtow> fiola - yikes!
  • [18:09:10] * nawcom (~nawcom@75.114.245.18) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  • [18:10:02] <panto> usb if b0rken, film at 11
  • [18:10:15] <panto> if you got to rely on something working on your board, don't let it be usb
  • [18:10:38] <robtow> Digikey says they will ship on the 25th.
  • [18:10:45] <woglinde> panto how is the cam connected?
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  • [18:11:44] <_av500_> woglinde: wires
  • [18:11:57] <panto> woglinde, gpmc memory interface
  • [18:12:28] <_av500_> panto: what user space api does it end up in?
  • [18:12:31] <_av500_> v4l2?
  • [18:12:38] <_av500_> or /dev7mem?
  • [18:12:51] <panto> should be v4l2
  • [18:12:59] <panto> I dunno what 3.2 did
  • [18:13:00] <_av500_> yeah, it mentions cheese
  • [18:13:15] <panto> that kernel is/was a little bit funky
  • [18:13:42] <robtow> Placed order with Digikey.
  • [18:13:44] <woglinde> v4l2 loopback is nice
  • [18:14:01] <panto> if you got to do it usb cameras work
  • [18:14:09] <panto> but, it's usb
  • [18:14:13] <woglinde> so you can turn your ip cam into a a local v4l2 device
  • [18:14:14] <panto> expect high cpu low
  • [18:14:42] <woglinde> what now a low cpu high?
  • [18:15:33] <_av500_> a high low cpu
  • [18:16:28] <panto> *load
  • [18:18:02] <bruce> panto: Looks interesting. Suitable for opencv, I presume? Industrial vision type applications?
  • [18:18:18] <panto> yes, that's the idea
  • [18:18:33] <bruce> (i.e. looking at squareish stuff under somewhat controlled lighting and distance conditions)
  • [18:18:44] <panto> not only that
  • [18:18:52] <panto> but camera people are weird
  • [18:19:27] <agmlego> No we are not.
  • [18:19:29] * hitlin37 (~chatzilla@145.107.10.2.mar.surfnet.utelisys.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  • [18:19:40] <bruce> ^ case in point.
  • [18:19:47] <bruce> /jk
  • [18:20:05] <agmlego> ;-P
  • [18:20:16] * agmlego works in industrial machine vision.
  • [18:20:36] <agmlego> Mostly in final system integration.
  • [18:21:23] <agmlego> So, I take other people's hardware, munge it all together with a few robots and stuff, and write some code to glue someone else's software tools together to do the inspection/guidance/veriication/PFM/whatever.
  • [18:21:32] <agmlego> And then I get paid.
  • [18:21:43] * rbarris (d8e47814@gateway/web/freenode/ip.216.228.120.20) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  • [18:21:47] <ka6sox-farfarawa> mourning
  • [18:22:15] <fiola> I wonder how fast two BeagleBones can communicate through their PRUs, back to back, doing the sync in PRU code.
  • [18:22:22] <_av500_> 54
  • [18:22:36] <_av500_> 26 each
  • [18:22:45] <panto> lol
  • [18:22:52] <fiola> Hi ka6
  • [18:23:06] * bruce was in industrial CV, but had the luxury of doing mostly software stuff - someone else had the pleasure of making sure there was a well focused and lit image on the screen.
  • [18:23:08] <_av500_> wasnt limited amount of PRU input pins an issue on bone?
  • [18:23:28] <panto> fiola PRUs run at 200MHz, 5ns per cycle
  • [18:23:33] <agmlego> bruce: Ah, so you did the easy 5%.
  • [18:23:34] <agmlego> ;-P
  • [18:23:35] <_av500_> bruce: I'd gather hanging a lamp is easier than writing CV code :)
  • [18:23:44] <panto> there's shared RAM single cycle access
  • [18:23:46] <agmlego> _av500_: Not at all.
  • [18:24:03] <agmlego> _av500_: Easily 90% or more of my job is making sure there is a good image.
  • [18:24:27] <fiola> panto: Yeah, but that won't be the transfer datarate. Bit banging async clock recovery will reduce that right down.
  • [18:24:27] <bruce> agmlego: As I see it, I got the fun part. :P
  • [18:24:29] <agmlego> Lighting, optics, filters, and sensors all have to be correct for the application.
  • [18:24:42] <panto> fiola, you'll be surprised
  • [18:24:47] <agmlego> The actual image processing is just basic matrix diddling.
  • [18:24:50] <panto> there's other h/w peripherals in there
  • [18:24:54] <panto> ok, time to eat
  • [18:25:05] * mranostay harlem shakes in
  • [18:25:06] <_av500_> gyros again
  • [18:25:20] <_av500_> mranostay: your meme is growing mold
  • [18:26:01] <bruce> agmlego: Yeah, I wonder what range of applications panto's board is suitable for. It looks like one sensor only, with un-changeable optics.
  • [18:26:08] <_av500_> jkridner: d'ya think once could talk gsoc with you some time?
  • [18:26:18] <agmlego> bruce: So, it is a CCTV camera. ;-P
  • [18:26:32] <agmlego> panto: Got a link to your hardware?
  • [18:26:33] <mranostay> _av500_: what is the new one?
  • [18:26:56] <mranostay> gangnam style is old as well
  • [18:26:59] <bruce> agmlego: panto gave me this link a bit earlier... http://beagleboardtoys.info/index.php?title=BeagleBone_3.1MP_Camera
  • [18:27:49] <agmlego> Oh, he is one of the folk trying to get the camera port to work.
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  • [18:28:14] <david__> does it come with power adapter -if not which one and were to get
  • [18:28:14] <_av500_> mranostay: make one!
  • [18:28:25] <david__> huh
  • [18:28:40] <_av500_> uhu
  • [18:28:52] <david__> were can you buy one
  • [18:28:54] <agmlego> bruce: Yeah, I see little about that that interests me professionally.
  • [18:29:07] * david__ (4c7eef3c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.126.239.60) Quit (Client Quit)
  • [18:29:19] <bruce> I'm looking for hobbyist level stuff, so it might serve.
  • [18:29:20] <_av500_> the word "toys" in the URL is a hint
  • [18:29:51] <agmlego> bruce: What is wrong with just getting a webcam with decent optics and a bigger sensor?
  • [18:29:53] <bruce> Real CV cameras and optics tend to be in the "call us for a quote" price category.
  • [18:30:00] <agmlego> Probably cheaper and more robust.
  • [18:30:06] <bruce> ... and USB.
  • [18:30:07] <agmlego> Certainly better image quality.
  • [18:30:16] <agmlego> And?
  • [18:30:16] <_av500_> try beagleboardcallusforaquotestuff.info
  • [18:30:51] <agmlego> bruce: Depends on your budget. Much of the hardware we deal with is <US$500 per camera, and ~$150 for optics.
  • [18:31:09] <agmlego> And all GigE, so stupid easy to work with.
  • [18:31:36] <bruce> I guess I've just never had good experience with USB webcams. "Documentation? We don't need no stinking documentation!"
  • [18:31:59] <bruce> "What do you mean, you want to use it on something other than Windows?!?"
  • [18:32:19] <bruce> "Plug and play - in MS Paint!"
  • [18:32:49] <_av500_> al you need is the COM API
  • [18:32:51] <_av500_> all
  • [18:33:12] <agmlego> bruce: The Logitech ones are pretty damned solid.
  • [18:33:15] <bruce> all you need is to reverse engineer the COM API
  • [18:33:25] <agmlego> And the newest ones have real glass in the optics, and reasonably large sensors.
  • [18:33:46] <agmlego> V4L2 supports them nicely.
  • [18:33:52] <bruce> agmlego: I'll look at them, next time I get around to playing with this stuff. At the moment, I'm just dreaming.
  • [18:34:19] <agmlego> Heh.
  • [18:34:32] <bruce> It's been a decade since I did anything serious in this space, so I'm sure my expectations and biases are well out of date.
  • [18:34:38] * agmlego is working on a vision project for his hackerspace, actually, and will likely be using one there.
  • [18:35:04] <agmlego> And probably a Pi, because we have stacks of them and it is a low-demand application.
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  • [18:50:34] <mranostay> agmlego: we don't speak of that board in here
  • [18:51:53] <KotH> if i would want to get production+selling+shop of some openhardware pcbs i have designed, where would i go to?
  • [18:52:04] <KotH> (it's not a cape, so i doubt cco is interested)
  • [18:52:34] <mranostay> KotH: oshpark? :P
  • [18:53:06] <KotH> it's not just pcb production, but also assmebly
  • [18:53:12] * errordeveloper (~ilya@46-65-25-158.zone16.bethere.co.uk) has joined #beagle
  • [18:53:45] <biot> mranostay: quick, give me an excuse to get a beaglebone black!
  • [18:54:02] <KotH> biot: it will get you all the girls you want
  • [18:54:17] <biot> great. now I have to buy 5.
  • [18:54:49] <mranostay> biot: signal generator?
  • [18:55:24] <agmlego> mranostay: Well, I *would* do it with a Beagle product, but our drawer of them is empty.
  • [18:55:52] <agmlego> I guess I could poke jkridner about it... ;-P
  • [18:55:57] <biot> mranostay: what, just bit-banging GPIO pins from userspace?
  • [18:56:29] <fiola> biot: It's got PRUs that can do it realtrime at 200MHz
  • [18:57:11] <biot> hmm, didn't know that
  • [18:57:13] * clh_ (~clh@38.110.18.125) Quit (Quit: clh_)
  • [18:57:30] <mranostay> biot: PRU!
  • [18:57:43] <biot> how do you drive that? you give it a pattern to repeat or?
  • [18:58:02] <mranostay> 8kb of instruction code
  • [18:58:10] <mranostay> so you can do a lot
  • [18:58:18] <fiola> You program up the PRU in its assembler to do whatever low-level thing you want, then control it from userspace.
  • [18:58:20] <mranostay> exposed on two registers
  • [18:58:38] <mdp> two 200mhz uCs
  • [18:58:46] <mdp> let's KISS
  • [18:58:52] <mranostay> lets not
  • [18:58:56] <mdp> :P
  • [18:59:02] <KotH> biot: some weird guy called mdp uses a beagle with its PRUs to emulate unobtainable hardware for an 6502
  • [18:59:04] <fiola> biot: here's a "blink" on PRU -- https://github.com/boxysean/am335x_pru_package/tree/master/pru_sw/example_apps/blink
  • [18:59:15] <rbarris> i was reading one of the PRU docs and still don't quite grok the shift register support. Can PRU be used to sink data from multiple external serial devices like adc's ?
  • [18:59:20] <mranostay> fiola: THAT IS WRONG!
  • [18:59:22] <mranostay> WRONG!
  • [18:59:34] <mdp> KotH, unobtanium++
  • [19:00:06] <fiola> mranostay: Yeah, I know, it should be hello world :P
  • [19:00:16] <KotH> mdp: well, you could always use an fpga..that would be almost like the real thing ;)
  • [19:00:19] <biot> hrmm, looks great indeed
  • [19:00:25] <biot> right, gotta have one
  • [19:00:51] <KotH> rbarris: you can do anything you want with them
  • [19:01:07] <KotH> rbarris: you are basically bitbaning the PRU I/Os
  • [19:01:12] <KotH> rbarris: at 200MHz
  • [19:01:20] <fiola> Well the great thing is, the price is now below the radar. Same as Rpi, at that price you no longer need to think "Shall I?"
  • [19:01:33] <rbarris> that's understood, thanks
  • [19:01:39] <KotH> fiola: the bone was always cheap
  • [19:01:48] <KotH> fiola: and below the radar
  • [19:01:49] <mdp> I highly recommend reading 4.5.2.2.3 in spruh73c.pdf for GPI/GPO direct/shift operation
  • [19:01:52] <mranostay> bradfa: battery header got added are you happy again? :)
  • [19:02:16] <fiola> KotH: not below the radar cheap. You can do too much with $89.
  • [19:02:30] <KotH> http://caxapa.ru/thumbs/302179/spruh73c_.pdf
  • [19:02:36] <KotH> (for those too lazy to google)
  • [19:02:47] <mdp> thx KotH
  • [19:02:55] * travisgriggs (~Adium@67.158.225.142) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
  • [19:03:04] <mranostay> fiola: no you shouldn't be toggling GPIOs like that it isn't using the PRU correctly
  • [19:03:07] <bradfa> mranostay, I'm always happy :)
  • [19:03:12] <mdp> KotH, fpga would have defeated the hack value of my project
  • [19:03:27] <bradfa> mranostay, but there's no refdes for the header, it's test points, which makes my BOM modifications fun
  • [19:03:54] <bradfa> CCo wants an updated BOM from me for white labels... turns out I want like 75 parts nopop'ed
  • [19:03:58] <bradfa> go me
  • [19:04:08] <mdp> rbarris, that ref was for you, fwiw, 4.5.2.2.3.
  • [19:04:12] <fiola> mranostay: there is no "incorrectly" unless it breaks the operational specs given on the datasheet.
  • [19:04:23] <rbarris> tnx mdp
  • [19:04:35] <mdp> KotH, gave the secret link to the old TRM
  • [19:04:41] <KotH> fiola: not really... that will not even buy you an Rb frequency normal
  • [19:05:07] <rbarris> is there a new TRM? is it better or different ?
  • [19:05:09] <KotH> mdp: i know you cannot c&p that link :)
  • [19:05:13] <mdp> ;)
  • [19:05:30] <mdp> new TRM is "different"
  • [19:05:33] <rbarris> someone mentioned spruh73c earlier and it's the first hit on google..
  • [19:05:47] <mdp> the world wants spruh73c
  • [19:06:46] <fiola> The top spruh73c on Google is from .ru, and PDF is an easily compromised format ...
  • [19:06:51] <KotH> fiola: ok.. i might not be your usual electronics buyer.. given the fact that i spend 300USD on 8663's
  • [19:07:46] <KotH> fiola: pdf's are not easier compromised than a .txt
  • [19:08:02] <KotH> fiola: or a video file or....
  • [19:08:16] <fiola> KotH: I'm looking forward to seeing what whacky "You should not do this" things people do with the Black's PRU. I hope it catches on :-)
  • [19:08:18] <KotH> fiola: if your pdf reader is exploitable, then you are using the wrong one, or an outdated one
  • [19:08:30] <KotH> fiola: you will see them :)
  • [19:08:43] <mdp> we discuss them regularly on this channel, stay tuned
  • [19:08:47] <KotH> fiola: and given the hype we have here... there will be an influx of many of those
  • [19:08:56] <mdp> usually starts with boxysean's blog entry
  • [19:09:28] <KotH> mdp: the PRU one?
  • [19:09:31] <KotH> mdp: ist that good or bad?
  • [19:09:33] <mdp> yes
  • [19:10:03] <mdp> first steps with beaglebone pru are to bitbang the gpio IP :(
  • [19:10:37] <KotH> well.. i would do the same.. to get a feel
  • [19:10:42] <mdp> extra code and effort to do something less efficiently than the native pru gpi/gpo
  • [19:10:44] <KotH> start simple, start with basics
  • [19:10:49] <mdp> it's not simple ;)
  • [19:10:54] <mdp> that's the funny thing
  • [19:11:01] <KotH> uh?
  • [19:11:02] <KotH> ok
  • [19:11:11] <cmicali> mdp: any idea what the penalty is for toggling GPIO vs the single-instruction PRU pins?
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  • [19:12:04] <jj2baile> why was the PRU section severely cut down in later TRM revisions?
  • [19:12:34] <mdp> simple is doing a single instruction to store to r30..done
  • [19:12:40] <KotH> so mdp can spread the word of the spruh73c
  • [19:12:49] <mdp> jj2baile, nobody can answer that here
  • [19:13:12] <KotH> mdp: i dont think he gets what you are hinting at :)
  • [19:13:38] <jj2baile> well I was going to ask: "Unable to, or disallowed from", but i think that answers my question
  • [19:14:04] <KotH> jj2baile: hint: a couple of the people in this channel are either working for TI or under TI NDA
  • [19:14:23] <jj2baile> I figured;
  • [19:15:04] <KotH> jj2baile: the others are either n00bs or trolls :)
  • [19:15:31] <robtow> < ex TI
  • [19:15:31] * sdkie (~sdkie@116.75.3.80) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  • [19:15:48] <KotH> robtow: so, you fall into the n00b category? ;)
  • [19:16:31] <robtow> KotH - I was part of the 1700 laid off last Nov when TI closed the mobile division after failing to sell it to Amazon
  • [19:17:04] <KotH> oh..one of the omapgeddon victims :-(
  • [19:17:15] <panto> robtow, same here...
  • [19:18:38] <KotH> mdp: if you have ever the chance, could you tell the other TI to please make again some calculators that have a useable keyboard layout for scientific and engineering use?
  • [19:18:52] <stealth``> does the beaglebone has proper display drivers for arm linux or runs on FB / Neon Optmized FB?
  • [19:18:52] <robtow> panto - my sympathies!
  • [19:19:03] <panto> life goes on
  • [19:19:08] <KotH> mdp: everyone since the ti-92 sucks... and gets even more sucky :-(
  • [19:19:18] * wmat hears omapogeddon continues to this day
  • [19:19:54] <KotH> stealth``: yes
  • [19:20:20] <robtow> panto - bad timing, with the woes in Greece.
  • [19:20:30] * panto shrugs
  • [19:20:41] <panto> got another gig with CCO
  • [19:20:42] <mdp> cmicali, couple things at work there 1) gpio ip clock limit..probably on the order of 25MHz toggle max..I think some folks have done arm baremetal (vague memory) to prove 2) contention for packets on the crossbar interconnect (you do an instruction that's single cycle to a pru register and it's guaranteed 5ns...write outside of the PRUSS and it not deterministic
  • [19:21:09] <panto> somehow I keep finding people willing to employ me :)
  • [19:21:21] <cmicali> mdp: interesting thanks, i assumed the interconnect delay but forgot about the gpio clock issue
  • [19:21:37] <mdp> cmicali, so that means, if you have something exciting going on like pushing polygons doing networking, heavy display work...you are creating crossbar traffic..and you will stall and not get 1 cycle response
  • [19:21:48] <mdp> you just have no idea in a system that's doing other things
  • [19:22:17] <mdp> the stalls are the real problem
  • [19:22:24] <alan_o> mdp: are you saying that Linux is not a realtime operating system?
  • [19:22:26] <cmicali> mdp: yeah i have one pru pushing data from pru memory to ddr and C code in linux doing FFT on that stuff
  • [19:22:41] <alan_o> mdp: and are you saying I can't have infinite bandwidth and zero latency?
  • [19:22:52] <mdp> it defeats the purpose *most* bitbanging use cases with the pru
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  • [19:22:55] <cmicali> mdp: but i have ONE pin i attached to a gpio instead of a pru pin on my board, and i expect it is going to cause some shit
  • [19:22:56] <alan_o> and low cost?
  • [19:23:07] <mdp> alan_o, that's what I'm told..I don't know anything though, I just work here
  • [19:23:15] <alan_o> hehe
  • [19:23:17] <alan_o> ok, later all
  • [19:23:20] <panto> alan_o, linux is not a real time OS, and linus smells of elderberries
  • [19:23:21] * alan_o (~alan@c-68-62-254-211.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
  • [19:23:27] <mdp> alan_o, I don't even know what any of this stuff means, I just repeat from the internal script ;)
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  • [19:24:03] * alan_o saw the panto comment just as the window was closing
  • [19:24:05] <alan_o> hehe
  • [19:24:08] <mdp> cmicali, depends on what response deadline you have for the pin..it all depends
  • [19:24:10] * alan_o (~alan@c-68-62-254-211.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  • [19:24:18] <mdp> the transaction will get there..but who knows when
  • [19:24:26] <KotH> mdp: let me guess, you are working in a large room with hundrets of other people, all of them with an irc client infront of them, where they "support" a certain irc channel ? :)
  • [19:24:36] <panto> KotH, +1
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  • [19:25:00] <mdp> KotH, yes, I was going to tell you that Bob from the #nspire channel says he can support you over there...I saw him during our 20 minute lunch break
  • [19:25:04] <cmicali> mdp: yeah it's the non-determinism that i think will be the problem, doing realtime/regular sampling from an external a/d and would rather not have big jitter
  • [19:25:09] <cmicali> board revision i guess ugh
  • [19:25:27] <mdp> cmicali, yeah, the number of pins is irrelevant if your deadline is important
  • [19:27:20] * hitlin37 (~chatzilla@145.107.10.2.mar.surfnet.utelisys.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  • [19:27:27] <mdp> cmicali, the best real world example I can give you is reading some of lyren brown's comments about what happened when he tried to back his pru-based atari expansion memory emulator with DRAM
  • [19:27:44] <mdp> he'd try to go out to DRAM and then start to fail decoding 65xx bus cycles
  • [19:27:54] <cmicali> interesting
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  • [19:27:57] <mdp> he had to batch things, IIRC
  • [19:28:10] <mdp> i.e. he started missing deadlines due to crossbar stalls
  • [19:28:10] * vvu|Mobile (~vvu_mobil@212.201.44.245) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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  • [19:28:29] <cmicali> wasn't the atari emulator pretty slow too?
  • [19:28:35] <cmicali> meaning, whatever the atari clock rate was
  • [19:28:41] <mdp> 1mhz
  • [19:28:48] * kompleteb (7948acef@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.72.172.239) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  • [19:28:55] <mdp> or maybe it was a 2mhz 6502..can't recall now
  • [19:29:06] <cmicali> still, stall must have been pretty long to drop on that
  • [19:29:32] <ka6sox-farfarawa> doing a 1mhz part should be fairly easy with today's modern processors
  • [19:29:37] <mdp> well, it takes a few 6502 bus cycles
  • [19:30:00] <mdp> bah..try again...it takes a few instructions to do that 6502 bus cycle loop
  • [19:30:39] <mdp> then you end up hardcoding delays (surprise!) to make things not respond too fast ahead of your buffer propagation delays
  • [19:30:43] <mdp> like on a read
  • [19:30:46] * stealth`` (~Diego@HSI-KBW-091-089-004-183.hsi2.kabelbw.de) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  • [19:30:52] <mdp> so then you have it all correct
  • [19:30:58] <mdp> and cause a stall and *poof*
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  • [19:31:20] <mdp> so in your case, my question is...can you afford to miss *one* sample
  • [19:31:23] <mdp> ?
  • [19:31:39] <ka6sox-farfarawa> this is why I prefer to use the FPGA solution...its all reduced back to hardware/microcode..
  • [19:31:41] <mdp> in my case, the computer (6502 cpu) crashes ;)
  • [19:31:52] <mdp> ka6sox-farfarawa, infidel!
  • [19:32:02] <mdp> ka6sox-farfarawa, you are no fun at all
  • [19:32:12] * krajo1 (~krajo1@ip4-83-240-125-22.cust.nbox.cz) has joined #beagle
  • [19:32:38] <ka6sox-farfarawa> mdp, yes, I find emulators annoying and fraught with their *own* quirks...
  • [19:32:42] <mdp> so yes, pru has a sane set of production use cases
  • [19:33:09] <mdp> note what TI's approved uses for the PRUSS are and you get the idea
  • [19:33:29] <mdp> but you can code to get around that DRAM latency
  • [19:33:29] <mru> approved?
  • [19:33:32] <ka6sox-farfarawa> its not quite *fully* reprogrammable computing...but it is reprogrammable peripherals.
  • [19:33:36] <mdp> mru, blessed?
  • [19:33:39] <ka6sox-farfarawa> mru +1
  • [19:33:57] <ka6sox-farfarawa> mdp, more like DADT
  • [19:34:05] <cmicali> i can probably afford to miss a sample or two actually
  • [19:34:07] <mdp> heh
  • [19:34:17] <ka6sox-farfarawa> (thanks koen for that reference!)
  • [19:34:20] <cmicali> but more error means more post-processing to try to correct
  • [19:34:27] <cmicali> which is a pain in the ass
  • [19:35:00] <mdp> is the common case, people are running data through the pru where there's no stalls on the gathering part..direct shifting..
  • [19:35:14] <mdp> but they need to share data out to the rest of the SoC
  • [19:35:31] <ka6sox-farfarawa> like our JTAG cape
  • [19:35:34] <mdp> that's solved with any number of schemes of ping-ponging in sram, edma, etc. etc.
  • [19:35:49] <mdp> mru has described this before
  • [19:35:55] <cmicali> my current solution is to use both PRUs
  • [19:36:07] <cmicali> one samples and puts into pru ram, the other reads from that and moves to dram
  • [19:36:11] <cmicali> seems to be working OK so far
  • [19:36:13] <mdp> that's what lyren brown does for his atari thing
  • [19:36:18] <mdp> yeah
  • [19:36:55] <mdp> if you needed the other pru you might investigate reserving an edma channel to do the work for you
  • [19:37:05] <mdp> poke it and do something else
  • [19:37:36] <cmicali> i looked into that briefly
  • [19:37:38] <panto> cmicali, what's the b/w you get out of your setup?
  • [19:37:41] <cmicali> but the work to setup the edma controller
  • [19:37:46] <cmicali> scared me off
  • [19:37:50] <mdp> although I've been told that there's "no known use case for having the pru use edma" ;)
  • [19:38:13] <cmicali> panto: haven't optimized yet, but i'm getting about 3mbyte/s (about 1.5MSps 16bit samples)
  • [19:38:16] <mdp> panto, ask me why I find that statement funny?
  • [19:38:20] <panto> there's always the first time :)
  • [19:38:26] <panto> why do you find this funny mdp?
  • [19:38:32] <mdp> panto, http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/PRU_Linux-based_Example_Code#PRU_edmaConfig
  • [19:38:39] <panto> lol
  • [19:38:52] <mdp> yeah, really, I come to work to be amused.
  • [19:38:53] * sdkie (~sdkie@116.75.3.80) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  • [19:40:28] <ka6sox-farfarawa> mdp, better than working at EA or being Bored!@
  • [19:40:59] <panto> ka6sox-farfarawa, working for one EA was pretty awesome
  • [19:41:20] <ka6sox-farfarawa> Electronic Arts?
  • [19:41:27] <panto> embedded alley
  • [19:41:33] <ka6sox-farfarawa> oh. right
  • [19:41:40] <mdp> hehe
  • [19:42:20] <mdp> panto, that was the only time I did x86 kernel work ;)
  • [19:42:22] <ka6sox-farfarawa> someone did a cartoon about EA that had a viking ship...can't find it...it was classic
  • [19:42:29] * Naked_ (~naked@naked.iki.fi) has joined #beagle
  • [19:42:34] <mdp> panto, 37 silkwood showers later...I'm ok
  • [19:42:44] <panto> hehe
  • [19:43:17] <ka6sox-farfarawa> mdp, the younger set won't know what a silkwood shower was...
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  • [19:43:33] <mdp> ka6sox-farfarawa, I'm testing their googley skills
  • [19:43:39] <ka6sox-farfarawa> no kidding
  • [19:43:42] * errordeveloper (~ilya@46-65-25-158.zone16.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  • [19:44:01] <mdp> should be part of the gsoc qualification :P
  • [19:44:23] <Naked_> hello! about the beaglebone black - some spec sheet lists 2x PRU 32-bit RISC CPUs as present on the board as well - are these accessible from linux? can these be programmed to handle some hard realtime stuff? which I/O ports can they access? do they have access to other peripherals on board such as I2C or SPI or similar?
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  • [19:45:58] <ka6sox-farfarawa> Naked_, what do you mean "accessable by linux"
  • [19:46:12] <ka6sox-farfarawa> can linux interact with them....yes
  • [19:46:35] <panto> Naked_, yes on all counts, but it's not trivial
  • [19:46:50] <ka6sox-farfarawa> panto, you can't treat them as MMIO?
  • [19:46:52] <Naked_> ka6sox-farfarawa: can the linux upload software to be run by the PRUs, however that is done
  • [19:46:58] <panto> heh
  • [19:47:07] <ka6sox-farfarawa> and Bitbang them?
  • [19:47:12] <cmicali> naked: yes
  • [19:47:14] <panto> ka6sox-farfarawa, you can do that
  • [19:47:15] <cmicali> naked: examples: https://github.com/beagleboard/am335x_pru_package
  • [19:47:16] <ka6sox-farfarawa> Naked_, yes
  • [19:47:22] <panto> you can even access the h/w controller
  • [19:47:23] <cmicali> naked: tutorial: http://blog.boxysean.com/2012/08/12/first-steps-with-the-beaglebone-pru/
  • [19:47:33] <Naked_> thanks!
  • [19:47:35] <panto> sanity of doing it that way not guaranteed
  • [19:47:36] <Naked_> this is great stuff!
  • [19:47:52] <panto> it is, but can't you put some clothes on? this is a family channel
  • [19:47:53] <ka6sox-farfarawa> sanity is never guaranteed.
  • [19:47:55] <Naked_> I've lost my sanity years ago, so don't worry
  • [19:48:19] <ka6sox-farfarawa> think of the Children!
  • [19:48:24] <panto> lol
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  • [19:48:45] * Naked_ is now known as Hadaka
  • [19:48:59] <ka6sox-farfarawa> now if we could get some people interested in upstreamin PRU support..that would be good.
  • [19:49:10] * parasciidic (~null@5.254.137.84) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  • [19:49:52] <panto> ka6sox-farfarawa, we do, but it's a long road
  • [19:49:59] * panto points at mdp
  • [19:50:10] <ka6sox-farfarawa> panto, I'm going into the office today..I'd like to test your eMMC collision patches
  • [19:50:12] <cmicali> what would upstream support look like, just integration of the UIO driver or something else?
  • [19:50:28] <panto> something completely different
  • [19:50:54] <panto> ka6sox-farfarawa, you'll need to load an override cape from the command line
  • [19:51:00] <Hadaka> okay, one more question - the raspberry pi hardware documentation is behind onerous NDAs and the publicly available documentation is just incomplete and wrong - is the PRU stuff as bad or is good documentation available without signing NDAs?
  • [19:51:02] <panto> there's no camera cape yet
  • [19:51:02] <cmicali> a biztalk style xwindows graphical orchestrator to drag and drop PRU instructions?
  • [19:51:08] <mrpackethead> cmicali: that blog from Seanboxy is'nt really very good
  • [19:51:21] <mrpackethead> as i discovered.
  • [19:51:22] <panto> Hadaka, the PRU docs used to be open
  • [19:51:35] <cmicali> mrpackethead: agree, but haven't found another post that at least lists the instructions 1 by 1 to get the examples to build - got a better one?
  • [19:51:39] <panto> but TI couldn't deal with the support burden so they removed it from the TRM
  • [19:51:46] <panto> but it's not under NDA or anything
  • [19:51:47] <mrpackethead> I have a copy of the old docs
  • [19:51:52] <ka6sox-farfarawa> me too
  • [19:51:53] <panto> they just don't like you to bug them about it
  • [19:52:08] <ka6sox-farfarawa> so that means the "community" gets to support this.
  • [19:52:16] <ka6sox-farfarawa> which is fine :P
  • [19:52:19] <Hadaka> hmmh, well, not ideal but a far cry better than the rpi situation
  • [19:52:22] <panto> ;)
  • [19:52:39] <panto> Hadaka, it's not all bad
  • [19:52:48] <KotH> ka6sox-farfarawa: considering my experience with freescales support, i think the ti support is pretty decent
  • [19:52:50] <ka6sox-farfarawa> Hadaka, better than undocumented and totally unavailable...
  • [19:53:01] <ka6sox-farfarawa> KotH, not complaining mind ya
  • [19:53:02] <mrpackethead> the bbb at $45 has the potential to be a real killer of the PI
  • [19:53:05] <KotH> ka6sox-farfarawa: even if they "refuse" to support you
  • [19:53:05] <panto> I think the community wants to take on PRU completely differently that what TI would do
  • [19:53:34] <ka6sox-farfarawa> panto, I see the PRU as being more like "cores" ala opencores.org
  • [19:53:49] <ka6sox-farfarawa> but the first thing is to make it easy to use.
  • [19:54:04] <panto> we have our ways...
  • [19:54:05] <KotH> ka6sox-farfarawa: sad thing about it is, that freescale actually contacted us, whether we would be willing to use some freescale cpus in our medical products
  • [19:54:07] <ka6sox-farfarawa> I need a core that does *this*
  • [19:54:11] <panto> it's going to take time...
  • [19:54:18] <ka6sox-farfarawa> panto, agreed.
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  • [19:54:31] <ka6sox-farfarawa> but the elements can be put into place to make this happen.
  • [19:54:40] <panto> yeah
  • [19:54:48] <panto> PRU is nothing out of the ordinary really
  • [19:55:10] <panto> one could even adapt the PRU model on a normal multicore CPU
  • [19:55:18] <ka6sox-farfarawa> eventually someone will write a simple C compiler for it.
  • [19:55:23] <ka6sox-farfarawa> (if its not already been done)
  • [19:55:26] <panto> pstt, there's already one
  • [19:55:31] <panto> but not public AFAIKT
  • [19:55:36] <ka6sox-farfarawa> figures
  • [19:55:45] <ka6sox-farfarawa> DADT
  • [19:56:22] * babak2 (~babak@2.177.128.72) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
  • [19:56:23] <cmicali> i would do bad things for that compiler
  • [19:56:45] <panto> ask jkrinder
  • [19:57:39] <Hadaka> I think the PRU stuff is great - there's usually some nook in every project that requires hard realtime - and in 99% of the cases people just slap on a PIC or some arduino or other simple microcontroller - and I hate that!
  • [19:58:01] <cmicali> yeah the PRU is really useful for us
  • [19:58:16] <cmicali> took some time to spin up but has been great
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  • [19:58:31] <Hadaka> the real deluxe solution would be to have an FPGA there - but those are proprietary heaven
  • [19:58:42] <panto> they are faster
  • [19:58:44] <ka6sox-farfarawa> Hadaka, why is that?
  • [19:58:58] <ka6sox-farfarawa> I do opensource FPGA
  • [19:59:35] * NulL` (~bleh1@92.39.194.163) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  • [19:59:38] <ka6sox-farfarawa> the PRU can do a lot of good things...and it *should* reduce the need for Linux-RT and Xenomai solutions.
  • [20:00:16] <cmicali> i think the main thing it's missing is a good example of pushing data between linux and the PRU
  • [20:00:24] <cmicali> which you're going to need for most uses of the PRU i'd think
  • [20:00:40] <cmicali> and not just peek/poke a byte but sustained data xfer
  • [20:00:42] <ka6sox-farfarawa> cmicali, is eDMA not good enough?
  • [20:00:47] <panto> cmicali, mdp has the right idea about it
  • [20:00:56] <Hadaka> ka6sox-farfarawa: not sure which part you meant - open source fpga toolchains are practically non-existent (even thought here is one project)
  • [20:00:56] <panto> you have to poke him to let you on it
  • [20:00:57] * Uzix (~bnc@176.194.133.162) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  • [20:01:16] <cmicali> ka6sox: i don't think the edma example works on the the pru-icss, i believe it was made for the earlier rev of the PRU
  • [20:01:21] <KotH> mdp, the gatekeeper of the PRU
  • [20:02:09] <cmicali> panto: i have my own hack solution, but for others that want to use the PRU on a project I think having a good public example would be very helpful
  • [20:02:20] <mdp> KotH, lol, definitely not..I have no official involvement with it ;)
  • [20:02:30] <cmicali> i could post mine, although i'm probably doing it wrong (and using up a whole PRU in the process)
  • [20:02:38] <panto> cmicali, do it
  • [20:02:46] <mdp> cmicali, and yes, all older examples..I cited only because somebody once mentioned a lack of a use case for that
  • [20:02:48] <ka6sox-farfarawa> mdp, there isn't something official anyways :P
  • [20:02:51] <panto> we're throwing stuff against the wall to see what sticks
  • [20:03:10] <mdp> ka6sox-farfarawa, there are pru gurus...real ones
  • [20:03:27] <ka6sox-farfarawa> mdp, I'm sure there are! just like DSP experts.
  • [20:03:33] <cmicali> panto: i'll post it @ https://github.com/sagedevices/am335x_pru_package when I get this wrapped up and i can make an example out of it. I added one DDR example in there also, would never have figured that out except for the hipstercircuits blog
  • [20:03:52] <Hadaka> on that note - which bit of hardware would you guys use to get 9 data bit serial on the beaglebone? I don't think the UARTs can handle it - PRU is an option - I've come up with a really hackish way of making it happen with SPI - is there something else?
  • [20:04:17] <mdp> what kind of serial?
  • [20:04:22] <ka6sox-farfarawa> the mcspi can't do 9bit?
  • [20:04:46] <ka6sox-farfarawa> or the uarts...I thought almost everything can do 9 bit...
  • [20:05:07] <Hadaka> TTL is fine
  • [20:05:41] <mdp> ka6sox-farfarawa, it does do lots of word lengths including 9 bit
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  • [20:06:04] <mdp> 4-32, to be exact
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  • [20:06:40] <Hadaka> can the mcspi be made to trigger on the rising pulse and have its own 9600 baud clock?
  • [20:06:43] * PRU_EVTOUT_2 (0ce25ce2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.12.226.92.226) has joined #beagle
  • [20:07:21] <ka6sox-farfarawa> Hadaka, why not?
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  • [20:09:19] <Hadaka> ka6sox-farfarawa: the SPI I've come in to contact with either acts a slave and requires an external clock or as a master and is not triggered on rising edge...
  • [20:10:28] * XM (a55b0c5b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.165.91.12.91) Quit (Client Quit)
  • [20:12:14] <mdp> Hadaka, are those your complete requirements?
  • [20:12:19] <mdp> at first you said, can it do "serial"
  • [20:12:29] <mdp> which is completely devoid of details
  • [20:12:47] <mdp> we don't want to peel this onion for hours
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  • [20:14:52] <Hadaka> mdp: hmmh, not sure - I want to talk to a 9-N-1 9600 baud TTL serial line (only rx and tx) via any peripheral capable of doing so
  • [20:15:27] * KotH would use the uart
  • [20:16:04] <panto> uart should work
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  • [20:16:08] <panto> 9 bit is no biggie
  • [20:16:10] <Hadaka> uart documentation says 8 data bits - and even though it works on some uarts, I do *not* want to do the hack where I configure the uart to use parity and flip the parity after each byte to fake the 9th data bit
  • [20:16:29] <panto> easily configurable by user-space too
  • [20:17:45] * babak (~babak@2.177.128.72) has joined #beaglebone
  • [20:18:11] <Hadaka> Programmable serial interface characteristics
  • [20:18:12] <Hadaka> ??? 5, 6, 7, or 8-bit characters
  • [20:18:18] <Hadaka> am I missing something major?
  • [20:18:29] * mrpackethead (~mrpacketh@147.200.109.203.static.cust.vf.net.nz) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  • [20:18:29] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> the 9th bit!
  • [20:19:23] <mdp> http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ports.arm.omap/90566
  • [20:19:23] <Hadaka> PRU_EVTOUT_2: quite so :D
  • [20:19:32] <panto> Hadaka, you're right
  • [20:19:37] <panto> I was counting the parity bit with it
  • [20:19:56] <mdp> panto, *ahem*
  • [20:20:22] <Hadaka> yeah, that's the parity-hack I *don't* want to use - I don't want to flip the parity after sending each byte
  • [20:20:26] <mdp> right
  • [20:20:36] <panto> heh
  • [20:20:47] <panto> well, hardware can do
  • [20:20:49] <ka6sox-farfarawa> Hadaka, is this RS485 1/2 duplex?
  • [20:21:04] <panto> write the missing bits of the linux tty subsystem to enable it :)
  • [20:21:05] <mdp> mcasp
  • [20:21:05] * panto runs
  • [20:21:26] <ka6sox-farfarawa> heh
  • [20:21:37] <mdp> http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/Soft-UART_Implementation_on_AM335X_PRU_-_Software_Users_Guide
  • [20:21:41] <mdp> just sayin'
  • [20:22:00] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> pru uart is 8 bit too :-\
  • [20:22:07] <mdp> this is not the pru uart
  • [20:22:09] <Hadaka> ka6sox-farfarawa: not RS485, but close
  • [20:22:11] <ka6sox-farfarawa> you can fix that you know :P
  • [20:22:13] <panto> PRU_EVTOUT_2, it's bitbanged
  • [20:22:13] <mdp> wake up!
  • [20:22:37] <mdp> read the words...read all the words...real only F*ing words on the wiki page
  • [20:22:39] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> mdp, that's what the "too" at the end was for. it means "also"
  • [20:22:56] * mdp receives a PRU_EVTOUT_2 interrupt
  • [20:23:04] <mdp> ;)
  • [20:23:10] <panto> mdp, want a snickers bar?
  • [20:23:11] <panto> :)
  • [20:24:48] <Hadaka> hmmh, I get that PRU can do soft uart - that is exactly what I thought to do as well - what I don't get is how McASP is involved...
  • [20:25:19] <cmicali> that softuart code is mindbending
  • [20:25:29] <mdp> Hadaka, pru code drives the mcasp serializers
  • [20:25:57] <mdp> cmicali, haha! this is why "those above" claim that the PRU is too hard for mortals ;)
  • [20:26:43] <cmicali> mdp: i want to meet the author of that code.. if indeed it was a human
  • [20:26:45] <KotH> mdp: anything embedded is too hard for mere mortals
  • [20:27:07] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> pru has like 14 instructions, it's not that bad.
  • [20:27:17] <mdp> unpossible
  • [20:27:19] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> the only bad comes from teh need of a kernel driver to mux any bidir pins.
  • [20:27:33] <mdp> if it's not node.js is too hard
  • [20:27:43] <mdp> "PRU the Hard Way(tm)"
  • [20:27:55] <panto> if it's not shopping, it's way way too hard
  • [20:28:00] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> lol!
  • [20:28:35] <Hadaka> you mean PRU doesn't run node.js?!
  • [20:28:57] <mdp> for those not familiar with "the hard way" http://learncodethehardway.org/
  • [20:29:00] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> it could, you just have to write up a compiler.
  • [20:29:27] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> \/virtual machine
  • [20:29:45] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> i have to say, that IS the way to learn a language.
  • [20:29:49] <ka6sox-farfarawa> Hadaka, Touche`
  • [20:29:49] * mranostay facepalms
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  • [20:30:03] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> like learning a spoken language, you jump into the society!
  • [20:30:35] <mdp> +1
  • [20:30:48] <mdp> except latin..you'd have to kill yourself
  • [20:30:49] <KotH> dont forget your dictionary
  • [20:31:08] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> if you already know how to program, you're just learning syntactical/style differences...no need to do anything but read code.
  • [20:31:38] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> err, assuming it's not a huge jump, like procedural to functional.
  • [20:31:41] * Uzix (~bnc@176.194.133.162) has joined #beagle
  • [20:31:42] <KotH> there is a lot more to programming than just style and syntax
  • [20:31:54] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> like what?
  • [20:32:09] <KotH> ways of thinking
  • [20:32:09] <Hadaka> hmmh, I still don't get the McASP stuff - why can't the PRU just "bit bang" a GPIO line itself? - or why can't Linux just use McASP directly if it can do the serialization?
  • [20:32:11] * mrpackethead (~mrpacketh@147.200.109.203.static.cust.vf.net.nz) has joined #beagle
  • [20:32:11] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> they're all turing complete
  • [20:32:17] <KotH> lol
  • [20:32:21] <ka6sox-farfarawa> Hadaka, a Joke it seems.
  • [20:32:23] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> the only difference is the "macros"
  • [20:32:31] <ka6sox-farfarawa> since we wer throwing out modules to do this with.
  • [20:32:36] <KotH> if your only tool is a turing machine, everything will look like an endless tape
  • [20:32:59] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> i mean there's no one thing that one language can do that another can't
  • [20:33:27] <KotH> PRU_EVTOUT_2: you have not learned enough programming languages then
  • [20:33:34] <ka6sox-farfarawa> KotH, +1
  • [20:33:37] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> why do you say that?
  • [20:33:37] <KotH> PRU_EVTOUT_2: or all just of the c family
  • [20:33:51] * babak (~babak@2.177.128.72) Quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
  • [20:33:54] <ka6sox-farfarawa> PRU_EVTOUT_2, Hard RT with Javascript
  • [20:33:56] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> i'm speaking for procedural stuff, like i said
  • [20:33:57] <ka6sox-farfarawa> do eeeet
  • [20:34:00] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> not something like functional programming
  • [20:34:28] * ka6sox-farfarawa expects a 5 line JS programme in <10minutes from PRU_EVTOUT_2
  • [20:34:40] <KotH> there are more than just functional and procedural languages
  • [20:35:06] <Hadaka> ka6sox-farfarawa: I think Soft-UART Implementation on AM335X PRU - Software Users Guide is not a joke in general, though...
  • [20:35:09] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> yes, i know this.
  • [20:35:16] * babak (~babak@2.177.128.72) has joined #beaglebone
  • [20:35:43] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> verilog is a great example. :) still, just syntactical and concurrency differences
  • [20:35:46] <Hadaka> hard RT with javascript? asm.js
  • [20:35:56] <KotH> lol
  • [20:36:00] <ka6sox-farfarawa> ha!
  • [20:36:01] <Hadaka> http://asmjs.org/
  • [20:36:26] <KotH> PRU_EVTOUT_2: verilog is an example of an dataflow language, which is a bigger difference than just syntax and concurency
  • [20:36:42] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> i disagree.
  • [20:37:00] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> in verilog, you have no "macros"
  • [20:37:18] <ka6sox-farfarawa> sheesh
  • [20:37:26] <KotH> verilog is also a shitty language, compared to beauties like VHDL ;)
  • [20:37:36] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> but, there's no difference in data flow
  • [20:37:36] <ka6sox-farfarawa> VHDL and Ada
  • [20:37:55] * panto waits for a nice emacs vs vi flamewar to erupt any minute now
  • [20:37:55] <PRU_EVTOUT_2> you just are allowed to not care about it in your high level languages.
  • [20:38:17] <mranostay> DEATH TO THE EMACS USERS!
  • [20:38:24] <mranostay> panto: we can be civil right?
  • [20:38:42] <ka6sox-farfarawa> mranostay, that opening salvo was not Civil....
  • [20:39:06] <panto> he's a punk
  • [20:39:09] <ka6sox-farfarawa> somewhere in the midst of this was a 9 bit serial question.
  • [20:39:25] <mranostay> panto: oh i fogot i had punk hilight in irssi :)
  • [20:39:50] <ka6sox-farfarawa> mranostay, so you could know when people are talking about you?
  • [20:39:59] <ka6sox-farfarawa> (you left yourself open for that)
  • [20:40:25] <mranostay> partly
  • [20:41:11] <ka6sox-farfarawa> okay bbl Ladies and Trolls
  • [20:41:15] * ka6sox-farfarawa is now known as ka6sox-away
  • [20:41:18] <Hadaka> hmmh, I wonder if beaglebone could be a funky OBD2 module...
  • [20:41:50] <ka6sox-away> Hadaka, not funky...doable...
  • [20:43:02] * babak (~babak@2.177.128.72) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
  • [20:43:03] <Hadaka> the thing with OBD2 modules is, all of them support connecting to the ECU, which is a couple well defined pins in the connector - but all car manufacturers have proprietary stuff littered all over the connector and the protocols are different for each pin
  • [20:43:18] <KotH> Hadaka: are you aware that "hadaka" means naked in japanese?
  • [20:43:20] <Hadaka> beaglebone + PRU just might be enough to have most of them accessible directly and bit bang the rest
  • [20:43:32] <Hadaka> KotH: yes, see my nick earlier ;)
  • [20:44:08] <KotH> so ka...
  • [20:44:15] <KotH> hen na shumi
  • [20:44:15] <ka6sox-away> yes
  • [20:44:35] <bruce> pant-o vs naked... fight!
  • [20:45:13] <bruce> (loser has to code a C compiler for PRU, using nothing but EMACS)
  • [20:46:11] * panto flees
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  • [20:48:35] * ka6sox-away is now known as zz_ka6sox-away
  • [20:48:42] <KotH> zz_ka6sox-away: sleep well
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  • [20:53:08] <Shadyman> BAM
  • [20:53:11] <Shadyman> Beaglecapes are here :3
  • [20:53:23] <mranostay> [:-|3
  • [20:55:12] <Shadyman> av500: And they drilled ALL my vias.
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  • [21:01:28] <panto> g'night all
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  • [21:10:50] <KotH> Shadyman: those with the lea?
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  • [21:14:04] <Shadyman> KotH: Neo, but yeah :)
  • [21:14:17] <Shadyman> all 500- or 700-some odd vias
  • [21:14:20] <KotH> newfangled stuff!
  • [21:14:23] <KotH> ;)
  • [21:14:25] <Shadyman> haha
  • [21:14:40] <KotH> -t model?
  • [21:15:08] <Shadyman> no, but it'd take it
  • [21:15:17] <KotH> meh!
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  • [21:15:32] <Shadyman> brought out the timepulse and extint0 lines
  • [21:19:12] <Shadyman> got my SD Card Cape, I2C/1-Wire cape and GPS Capes back from the mill
  • [21:20:25] * hitlin37 (~chatzilla@145.107.10.2.mar.surfnet.utelisys.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
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  • [21:28:19] <KotH> Shadyman: apropos.. i stumbled over an interesting appnote regarding blocking c's: http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/application_notes/AN-1142.pdf
  • [21:28:56] <Shadyman> Neat.
  • [21:29:25] <KotH> er.. decoupling
  • [21:29:36] * KotH should forget german while chatting
  • [21:29:48] * zz_ka6sox-away is now known as ka6sox
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  • [21:32:02] <ka6sox> KotH, didyou bail?
  • [21:33:33] <KotH> bail?
  • [21:35:51] * emeb_mac (~ericb@ip72-223-89-10.ph.ph.cox.net) Quit (Quit: emeb_mac)
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  • [21:37:13] <thurbad> bail is kinda 80's slang for leave
  • [21:39:23] * SlashV (~SlashV@ip176-146-172-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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  • [21:40:38] <werwer> Do any of you know if BeagleSNES will work with BeagleBoard Black?
  • [21:41:02] * babak (~babak@2.177.128.72) has joined #beaglebone
  • [21:41:33] <ka6sox> thurbad, thanks...sorry I'm dating myself.
  • [21:41:45] <ka6sox> KotH, I just had to move someplace else.
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  • [21:57:37] <werwer> I like turtles
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  • [22:05:52] <Gman> hiya
  • [22:06:03] <Gman> any1 ther?
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  • [22:25:31] <Mbopi> i have a problem with s-video output on Beagleboard xm .. the output is misaligned. I test change the resolution but it does not solve the problem
  • [22:27:28] <Mbopi> anybody help me?
  • [22:29:00] <Mbopi> nobody?
  • [22:29:25] <rbarris> see "be patient" at top of chat
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  • [23:23:57] <ds2> Hmmm
  • [23:25:00] <ka6sox> ummmmmmmmmmmmm
  • [23:26:03] * test (4a503f3c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.80.63.60) has joined #beagle
  • [23:26:34] <ds2> esc is sure tiny
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  • [23:30:28] <mdp> ds2, I recall when ESC, by itself, was still huge
  • [23:30:38] <mranostay> morning
  • [23:31:07] <ds2> mdp: yes, so do I. I walked all the exhibits there in like an hour
  • [23:31:14] <mdp> wow
  • [23:31:36] <mdp> yeah, I recall being at Moto and it moved from SJCC to Moscone..couldn't fit down in SJCC
  • [23:31:45] <mdp> then shrunk back down during a down cycle
  • [23:32:15] <ds2> before, it used to overflow into the outside of the exhibit hall
  • [23:32:31] <ds2> now there is nothing outside the hall, the aisles are still wide and I see empty booths
  • [23:32:32] * test (4a503f3c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.80.63.60) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  • [23:32:39] <mdp> ahh yes, I remember it was unseasonably warm..they had tents ouside SJCC
  • [23:32:43] <ds2> and not many vendors there either
  • [23:32:47] <mdp> it was ~100F the one day
  • [23:32:50] * vvu_ (~ungureanu@212.201.44.245) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  • [23:33:26] <mdp> hrm
  • [23:33:40] <mranostay> talking about the good olde days?
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  • [23:33:56] <mdp> ds2, have you done much FSL stuff? and been to FTF (or before that SNDF)?
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  • [23:34:54] <ds2> mdp: only a tiny bit.... never got a chance to goto FTF as the TI parts seemed better for most stuff
  • [23:35:27] <ds2> I wonder what happened to the TI tech days or the 430 days
  • [23:35:46] <mdp> being on the networking end of the spectrum..I started at SNDFs..those were inside moto..then after the spin out it became FTF
  • [23:35:58] <mdp> but they had some serious friggin bux in those marketing cons
  • [23:36:14] <mdp> and the partner ecosystem was huge..so it was like being at an ESC..*everybody* was there
  • [23:36:36] <mranostay> *buzzword alert*
  • [23:36:43] <mdp> yes
  • [23:37:00] <ds2> so you started out as a PPC guy?
  • [23:37:21] <mdp> well, not every conference has a private concert headlining with the Barenaked Ladies, for example
  • [23:37:25] <mdp> FTF spend a lot of bux
  • [23:37:33] <mdp> and an open bar with unlimited scotch ;)
  • [23:37:53] <mdp> speaker from the apollo 13 mission signing novels
  • [23:38:15] <mdp> I wish I saw the number from that show budget ;)
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  • [23:38:48] <ds2> didn't TI had a competing invite only event?
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  • [23:40:23] <mdp> ds2, I didn't do TI then..they only had crap ;)
  • [23:40:36] <mdp> ds2, amazing how it sounds from the other side, right?
  • [23:41:59] <ds2> yep
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  • [23:53:56] <infoUser> so atleast one distributor lists the ship time for the new Beaglebone Black as 1 week after order... is this a pipedream?
  • [23:56:05] * ezequielgarcia (~elezegarc@123.222.3.200.ros.express.com.ar) Quit (Quit: Leaving)