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  • [00:28:21] <mranostay> must be a Friday
  • [00:30:21] <ka6sox> ...
  • [00:30:41] <ds2> why are you still sober then?
  • [00:31:27] <ka6sox> ds2, who says we are?
  • [00:31:49] <ds2> for one, mransostay is aware of the day
  • [00:32:27] <ka6sox> http://xkcd.com/323/
  • [00:33:03] <mranostay> heh .13 is pretty wasted
  • [00:33:54] <ka6sox> in Alaska if you aren't .23 you don't have enough anti-freeze
  • [00:34:44] <mranostay> isn't .23 likely to kill you?
  • [00:34:55] <ds2> try it and report back?
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  • [00:36:03] <mranostay> i suppose it depends on the person
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  • [00:37:15] <ka6sox> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_alcohol_content#Blood_Alcohol_Level_Chart
  • [00:38:28] <mranostay> haven't had a 0.2 in long time from that list
  • [00:39:07] <mranostay> memory blackout is your body's way of saying knock it off :)
  • [00:39:14] <mranostay> prpplague: got rum?
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  • [00:48:50] <prpplague> mranostay: stone ipa
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  • [00:57:32] <mranostay> i want to get drunk and write PRU code
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  • [01:05:12] <hayk> Hey all, I'm having issues running ftd2xx on the BeagleBoard xM RevC
  • [01:05:43] <hayk> the simple test program returns 1 and ldd doesn't work on it
  • [01:07:33] <hayk> i tried readelf --file-headers --arch-specific and noticed that the OS name is "ARM926EF-S" instead of "7-A"
  • [01:07:54] <hayk> and this is the only ARM version of libftd2xx provided on their website, does this mean that I can't use it on this platform?
  • [01:12:49] <hayk> running readelf on libraries in /usr/lib gives "7-A", and the CPU_arch is "v7" as opposed to "v5TEJ" on libftd2xx
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  • [01:22:24] <hayk> Does anyone know if the xM is just incompatible with this shared library or if there's something I can do?
  • [01:31:03] <mranostay> heh
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  • [01:56:09] <hayk> ok i have to go in ten minutes, if anybody has an idea please let me know
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  • [01:59:59] <Russ> hayk, why use the closed source crap? are you required to?
  • [02:01:30] <hayk> yes - we are building a mobile robot and using motor controllers that come with a library that uses ftd2xx
  • [02:02:03] <Russ> bummer, to bad they did use libftdi
  • [02:02:09] * _chase_ (~a0271661@192.94.92.11) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  • [02:02:21] <Russ> strace it, see if its doing anything
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  • [02:04:58] <hayk> what should I be looking for?
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  • [02:05:32] <hayk> it has a bunch of alternating calls of stat64 and open, then a couple read and lseeks, then exit_group(1)
  • [02:07:21] <hayk> oh i see, it's looking for the library. the last call of open seems to find it
  • [02:08:18] <hayk> then we get a read(3, "\177ELF......a bunch of characters"..., 512) = 512
  • [02:08:40] <hayk> and lseek(3, 198900, SEEK_SET) = 198900
  • [02:08:54] <hayk> two more similar reads, and then exit_group(1) = ?
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  • [02:24:04] <mtadyshak> AMSDK 05.06 + CCSv5.1.1 + Beagle Bone Rev A6 booting from SD just fine.
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  • [02:24:20] <mtadyshak> Try to connect with XDS100v2 fails
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  • [02:24:56] <mtadyshak> Error is SC_ERR_FTDI_OPEN (0XFFFFFF69)
  • [02:25:42] <mtadyshak> Exited minicom on /dev/ttyUSB1
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  • [02:26:11] <mtadyshak> Should XDS100v2 be on /dev/ttyUSB0 is nothing else is on USB?
  • [02:26:43] <mtadyshak> s/is/if/
  • [02:27:07] <prpplague> mranostay: based on mdp 's 6502 pru stuff, i am pretty sure being drunk is a prerequisite for writing PRU code
  • [02:28:31] <mtadyshak> I want to look at the Tracing Vectors
  • [02:28:58] <mtadyshak> Ethernet flash: BOOTP requests start after 18 minutes. No response from host.
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  • [02:47:05] <mtadyshak> See error msg above about FTDI open error.
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  • [03:06:16] * mranostay thinks of a talk to submit for plumbers
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  • [03:08:20] <prpplague> mranostay: "Device Tree: When Plumbers make the Plumbing too complicated"
  • [03:10:24] <prpplague> mranostay: "Device Tree: Because the plumbing in every rest room should match the capabilities of an outhouse"
  • [03:12:41] <mtadyshak> That's funny!
  • [03:13:11] <mtadyshak> An outhouse is a mass-storage device.
  • [03:13:44] <mtadyshak> Except it is organic...
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  • [03:22:34] <Shadyman> anyone know offhand the distance between stacked capes? (ie height available for components)? I don't have calipers on me
  • [03:22:51] <Shadyman> Or my bbone, for that matter :x
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  • [03:29:56] <mtadyshak> Would need to be slightly less than the height of the RJ-45 Ethernet connector. Capes have a cutout for that. Top of connector is about flush with top surface of cape PC board.
  • [03:36:57] <Shadyman> hm
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  • [04:11:48] <mdp> prpplague: um, ouch! perhaps I'll just take that as a compliment of some sort ;)
  • [04:11:50] <mdp> bbt
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  • [04:32:03] <mranostay> prpplague: i hope you are happy :P
  • [04:35:20] * prpplague (~prpplague@107-206-64-184.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  • [04:45:28] <Shadyman> Oh HTML5, how do I love thee. http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=do+the+harlem+shake
  • [04:45:50] * guanucoluis (~luis@181.164.132.167) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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  • [04:47:57] <mranostay> prpplague: whoa my BBB is pulling 0.5 amps :)
  • [04:49:35] <mranostay> space heater
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  • [05:29:54] <mrpackethead> what did i miss
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  • [05:36:02] <mranostay> jkridner: inc
  • [05:36:09] <jkridner> yo!
  • [05:36:11] * mranostay goes out to drink
  • [05:37:01] <mranostay> out is 200 yards but it is out :)
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  • [05:43:21] * rsalveti (~rsalveti@unaffiliated/rsalveti) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  • [05:46:02] <ka6sox> mranostay, just don't get a WUI
  • [05:46:32] * rsalveti (~rsalveti@unaffiliated/rsalveti) has joined #beagle
  • [05:47:09] <mranostay> ka6sox: what they take my walking privs?
  • [05:47:22] <mranostay> i can only walk to work than that is it? :P
  • [05:48:04] <ka6sox> I think in CA its 3 WUI's before they make you take a Cab.
  • [05:55:09] <mru> troll troll troll
  • [05:56:52] <ka6sox> mru, what TZ are you in today?
  • [05:57:08] <ka6sox> (or better yet what TZ does your body think you are in?)
  • [06:01:56] <mranostay> mru is a state of mind
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  • [07:09:11] <_av500_> gah
  • [07:13:34] <_av500_> buildroot fail
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  • [07:17:59] <mru> ka6sox: I'm physically in hong kong
  • [07:27:16] <Shadyman> Hmm. Everything's in place for an SD card on MMC2 except mmc2_cmd
  • [07:28:20] <mrpackethead> mru: what part of HKG?
  • [07:37:29] * emeb_mac (~ericb@ip72-223-89-10.ph.ph.cox.net) Quit (Quit: emeb_mac)
  • [07:44:33] <ka6sox> okay...this HDMI Sound thing is becoming clear...as Mud...but I think I know where its going.
  • [07:44:59] <ka6sox> but its time for bed
  • [07:47:14] <mru> mrpackethead: hong komg island at the moment
  • [07:47:38] <mrpackethead> do you live there
  • [07:47:45] <mrpackethead> or just visiting
  • [07:47:57] <mru> visiting
  • [07:48:16] <mrpackethead> not a place i'd want to live
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  • [07:57:20] <_av500_> they tore down the best part of HK: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kowloon_Walled_City
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  • [08:00:41] <mrpackethead> anyway.
  • [08:04:50] <_av500_> gah, disk is full
  • [08:05:03] <_av500_> need 1TB SSD in this laptop
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  • [09:38:19] <koen> ka6sox: gpmc DT patches are in the beagle 3.8 kernel now
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  • [10:14:50] <aholler_> a 18" tablet, funny
  • [10:15:13] * aholler_ is now known as aholler
  • [10:16:22] <aholler> still not large enough for a newspaper ;)
  • [10:23:31] <mranostay> morning
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  • [10:47:06] <abetusk> I'm looking for a little help. I'm setting up an angstrom distribution on an sd-card and I've gotten up to the point of running "omap3mkcard.sh" in this tutorial: http://treyweaver.blogspot.com/2010/10/installing-angstrom-on-beagleboard-xm.html but now I can't mount the sd card
  • [10:47:41] <abetusk> trying to 'mount /dev/sdb1 /media/test' gives me an error saying I need to specify the filesystem type
  • [10:48:08] <aholler> file /dev/sdb1
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  • [10:48:29] <abetusk> /dev/sdb1: block special
  • [10:49:30] <aholler> file -s /dev/sdb1
  • [10:50:52] <abetusk> /dev/sdb1: data
  • [10:51:21] <aholler> so something went wrong
  • [10:51:28] <abetusk> ah, ok
  • [10:51:37] <abetusk> that tutorial is 3 years old...
  • [10:51:49] <abetusk> any suggestions on what to do or what tutorial to follow?
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  • [11:00:37] <ynezz> and there was no error? like everything went smoothly?
  • [11:01:08] <ynezz> mainly that mkcard script
  • [11:01:18] <abetusk> ynezz, no, I think something went wrong. I lost the output screen and I don't remember what it is
  • [11:01:24] <ynezz> great
  • [11:01:34] <abetusk> I'm running mkcard.txt as suggested by this now: http://elinux.org/BeagleBoardBeginners
  • [11:01:40] <abetusk> it's taking a while though
  • [11:02:04] <ynezz> great
  • [11:02:54] <abetusk> The last message it displayed was 'Writing superblocks and filesystem accounting information:'. It's been like that for maybe 5 minutes? The card is 32gb...
  • [11:03:59] <ynezz> sorry, I've forget my crystal ball at work
  • [11:04:15] <abetusk> I have no sense for how long it should take..
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  • [11:06:04] <abetusk> ah, done, awesome
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  • [11:17:13] <abetusk> I should be using the 'MLO', 'modules.tgz', 'u-boot.img' and 'uImage' from here: http://downloads.angstrom-distribution.org/demo/beagleboard/ ?
  • [11:17:36] <abetusk> And also, I should be using the first angstrom link for the actual distribution? Angstrom-Beagleboard-demo-image-glibc-ipk-2011.1-beagleboard.rootfs.tar.bz2 ?
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  • [11:21:14] <koen> abetusk: have you noticed that http://downloads.angstrom-distribution.org/demo/beagleboard/ has instructions?
  • [11:21:34] <koen> and I guess those would work better than some random blog
  • [11:22:45] <abetusk> koen, ok, thanks. Sorry, still trying to get my bearings
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  • [11:52:03] <egarcia> joel_: hi
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  • [12:05:54] <mru> troll troll troll
  • [12:06:01] <_av500_> +1
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  • [14:05:54] <Kristina> Okay, what would be the easiest way of booting a non-ELF kernel on BeagleBoard?
  • [14:06:52] <dm8tbr> mind you I understand nothing of this, but shouldn't U-boot do that?
  • [14:07:09] <Kristina> Yeah, I was just thinking about adding mach-o support to uboot.
  • [14:08:34] <dm8tbr> doesn't it copy whatever you give it to a predefined spot in ram and then hands over execution?
  • [14:08:41] <aholler> load;go done
  • [14:10:25] <Kristina> But things like the kernel entry point vary.
  • [14:10:46] <Kristina> You also need to load the kernel binary and do things like zero out the BSS.
  • [14:11:54] <aholler> sorry, I don't anything about what the darwin-kernel does
  • [14:11:59] <Kristina> Oh, I see. I need to make a zImage.
  • [14:12:00] <aholler> +know
  • [14:12:11] <Kristina> Err, uImage.
  • [14:12:29] <aholler> that isn't really needed
  • [14:12:52] <Kristina> Darwin needs boot args as well as a "special" device tree.
  • [14:14:02] <aholler> the non-elf term get's more special ;)
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  • [14:16:27] <Kristina> I see. I need something like cmd_elf.
  • [14:20:06] <Kristina> This doesn't look that hard.
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  • [16:17:05] <_av500_> Kristina: you can always write a wrapper around your kernel
  • [16:17:12] <_av500_> as dm8tbr said, uboot loads a binary and calls it
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  • [17:01:15] <mranostay> morning!
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  • [17:09:47] <emeb_mac> moaning
  • [17:12:00] <dm8tbr> mooo
  • [17:13:05] <emeb_mac> mourning
  • [17:14:20] <mranostay> trolls!
  • [17:14:39] * mranostay so should be hungover
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  • [17:22:46] <mranostay> dm8tbr: watch where you are mooing!
  • [17:23:21] * dm8tbr mooooons mranostay
  • [17:23:31] <dm8tbr> bbl, sauna
  • [17:26:58] <mranostay> cows don't sauna
  • [17:27:22] <ogra_> do trolls ?
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  • [17:50:15] <jrawson> So I'm on a project that's trying to use a beagleboard-xM, and it kinda appears that the 4 port USB hub just goes away. Known problem? Solution? My problem? Halp?
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  • [17:53:51] <dm8tbr> jrawson: usb can be wonky at times. any messages from the kernel?
  • [17:54:01] <dm8tbr> jrawson: a lot of usb or ethernet traffic?
  • [17:56:14] <jrawson> We're trying to power it from a battery pack, and tried to do load testing on it so we plugged in a USB wifi dongle, keyboard, mouse, and breadboarded fan to to increase load. The ethernet plug wasn't plugged in.
  • [17:56:45] <jrawson> The wifi module could have caused it, but even after removing the wifi module and rebooting it persisted.
  • [17:57:48] <jrawson> And it has a bunch of messages in dmesg, kinda seems like its disconnecting the whole hub and then enumerating a whole slew of devices that I don't really think exist.
  • [17:58:44] <jrawson> We've only had the thing for about 2 weeks, and it was fine before, but we're now getting to the point where we have enough equipment to start using the thing so I think saying "We just got it" isn't really a lie.
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  • [17:59:27] <jrawson> I've been having issues trying to roll an angstrom distribution from their online builder also, but I think I'll get that one after playing with it enough.
  • [18:00:25] <dm8tbr> can you elaborate on the 'battery pack'?
  • [18:02:19] <jrawson> We looked around for something to meet our power needs, 5V 3A, and found this thing: http://www.amazon.com/Lightning-Sensation-Thunderbolt-connectors-customized/dp/B009USAJCC
  • [18:03:14] <jrawson> Seemed to work, well, still seems to work. The power source doesn't seem to matter since we started also doing tests with a bench power supply.
  • [18:03:21] <jrawson> With the same results.
  • [18:03:32] <dm8tbr> hmm, ok
  • [18:04:07] <dm8tbr> which kernel is this running?
  • [18:04:57] <jrawson> The one that came with it, it's a rev C board, looks like a 2.32 thing, but let me plug in the flash drive and make sure.
  • [18:05:41] <jrawson> I've been trying to get a new roll of angstrom working on a separate 4GB card, but things just aren't right when I do, so for testing we've just been using the stock one.
  • [18:06:39] <dm8tbr> it might be that usb is more stable on a newer/different kernel
  • [18:07:00] <dm8tbr> I never worked with an XM itself, so not sure
  • [18:07:43] <jrawson> 2.6.32 looks like.
  • [18:08:04] * jrawson forgot the 6. %)
  • [18:08:41] * jrawson kinda wants to just run gentoo on the thing, but isn't sure how that would work out and time is a factor in our project.
  • [18:09:38] <aholler> userland istn' of interest, gentoo runs just fine
  • [18:09:52] <aholler> but there are large differences in which kernel you are using
  • [18:10:03] <jrawson> And you load the kernel with uboot still or does it support grub?
  • [18:10:21] <dm8tbr> grub is x86 only
  • [18:10:32] <jrawson> So that's why uboot then.
  • [18:18:08] <jrawson> aholler: Only reason why I say gentoo is because if I'm going to roll my own kernel that's where my mind goes. Do you have a recommendation for which kernel we should start with?
  • [18:18:57] <aholler> I'm using 3.2.x (.40 currently) from the mainline stable tree
  • [18:19:31] <jrawson> And which beagleboard are you using that with?
  • [18:22:23] <_av500_> you dont need gentoo to compile your own kernel
  • [18:22:48] <_av500_> simple "make" will do
  • [18:23:38] <jrawson> I know, like I said that's just where my mind goes. I run a gentoo server. Haven't done much embedded development.
  • [18:23:54] * jrawson feels dumb now.
  • [18:24:07] * beng-nl_ is now known as beng-pl
  • [18:25:43] <aholler> a beagleboard classic c4
  • [18:27:06] <_av500_> jrawson: so your usb issues persist?
  • [18:27:15] <_av500_> pastebin some dmesg of the error
  • [18:33:17] <jrawson> _av500_: I apparently have to reproduce it. I thought I could capture the logs on the flash, mount it then read them later. Apparently they're all gone.
  • [18:34:18] * jrawson is making noob mistakes on a new platform to him. I appreciate the help.
  • [18:35:55] <jrawson> _av500_: And yes, it persisted across resets of the device, both hitting the reset button and cutting power at the bench.
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  • [18:43:54] <woglinde> musb
  • [18:43:57] <woglinde> we love you
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  • [18:44:52] <dm8tbr> actually that should be ehci?
  • [18:45:08] <aholler> yes
  • [18:45:40] <_av500_> dm8tbr: ehci has issues too
  • [18:45:47] <dm8tbr> sure, I know
  • [18:46:17] <aholler> that's why I still at 3.2.x
  • [18:46:31] <_av500_> aholler: even there
  • [18:48:02] <mranostay> woglinde: love to hate
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  • [18:53:56] <jrawson> _av500_: *sigh* its not cooperating now. Its really weird. I'll fiddle with it and ask again later.
  • [18:54:02] <jrawson> Thanks for the help everybody.
  • [18:54:42] <_av500_> jrawson: np
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  • [19:20:23] <_av500_> how do I tell Linux that ttyUSB1 is a serial mouse?
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  • [19:25:53] <aholler> omg
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  • [19:29:10] <_av500_> omg: command not found
  • [19:29:23] <_av500_> aholler: wanted to show the kid how a trackball works
  • [19:29:34] <_av500_> and the only one I have here is aserial
  • [19:29:42] <woglinde> haha
  • [19:29:45] <_av500_> I bet in wondows it works
  • [19:29:52] <_av500_> windows too
  • [19:30:05] <_av500_> arf
  • [19:30:10] <_av500_> it says "atari ST"
  • [19:30:18] <_av500_> I guess thta ont work :)
  • [19:30:21] <_av500_> +w
  • [19:30:31] <aholler> I bet it would work in windows too, there is no autodetection for serial stuff
  • [19:30:39] <_av500_> aholler: there is
  • [19:30:47] <_av500_> drives my ham radio freind crazy
  • [19:31:07] <jrawson> I think that's the wrong device for a mouse.
  • [19:31:22] <aholler> maybe at boot up, but not at hotplug-up
  • [19:32:16] <aholler> at least I never seen some mysterious characters at a serial port
  • [19:32:56] <_av500_> aholler: https://plus.google.com/100242854243155306943/posts/Z4hS7PRaBTG
  • [19:33:58] <aholler> haha, modem-manager
  • [19:34:11] <woglinde> kill it
  • [19:35:33] <aholler> it"s like those omap-serial patches between 3.2 and 3.3: all your serial belong to us :)
  • [19:37:16] <_av500_> aholler: you know, some people on lkml proposed to probe for i2c devices....
  • [19:37:24] <_av500_> cant be so hard, can it
  • [19:37:52] <aholler> i"ve added the suggestion to modify it, but they just come up with totally stupid arguments
  • [19:37:54] * guanucoluis (~luis@181.164.132.167) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  • [19:38:35] <aholler> i didn"t care much for probing or not, probing just worked the best here.
  • [19:38:59] <aholler> and adding e.g. a p to the i2c-address would have been easy
  • [19:40:02] * jrawson 's gut reaction is to write a udev rule to create /dev/mouse0 for the mouse device instead of ttyUSB0, which is usually a RS232 adapter in my experience, but all of this is a new world to me.
  • [19:40:03] <aholler> and I never had problems with probing
  • [19:40:24] <aholler> but of course, there are always dumb devices around
  • [19:42:40] <aholler> anyway, the whole discussion wasn"t about probing, it was about totally stupid and dumb reasons
  • [19:43:42] <aholler> and about no,no,no, we had some ugly patch ages ago, I don"t even want to look at yours
  • [19:43:46] <_av500_> aholler: inputattach -ms3 /dev/ttyUSB1
  • [19:43:48] <_av500_> so easy
  • [19:43:49] <_av500_> :)
  • [19:43:55] <_av500_> works with the genius mouse
  • [19:44:54] <woglinde> serial mouse on usb?
  • [19:44:56] <_av500_> yes
  • [19:45:01] <mranostay> _av500_: trolls!
  • [19:45:04] <woglinde> with adapter?
  • [19:45:11] <woglinde> no that was ps2 and usb
  • [19:45:13] <woglinde> hm hm
  • [19:45:27] <_av500_> woglinde: with usb2serial of course
  • [19:47:32] <_av500_> ah, that is part of gpm
  • [19:48:22] * mthalmei_away is now known as mthalmei
  • [19:49:27] <_av500_> oh, that supports my spaceball 3003 too!
  • [19:49:29] <_av500_> nice
  • [19:49:40] <_av500_> can manipulate mouse cursor in 3d
  • [19:49:41] <woglinde> sure
  • [19:49:49] <_av500_> http://members.ozemail.com.au/~snewnham/trueBall/SpaceBall3003.jpg
  • [19:51:25] <aholler> av500: anyway, I've learned again that sending patches to lkml is something gwon up people shouldn"t do, it"s a place for kids to fight against, at least if you don"t belong to some big company. if ou do, you can send everything
  • [19:51:41] * mthalmei is now known as mthalmei_away
  • [19:51:42] <aholler> grown
  • [19:53:16] <_av500_> omg, inputattache is part of the linux console project
  • [19:53:22] <_av500_> which is maintained by esr
  • [19:53:28] * _av500_ slowly steps away
  • [19:53:31] <_av500_> :)
  • [19:53:50] <woglinde> *g*
  • [19:57:22] * lyakh (~lyakh@dslb-188-109-032-197.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Quit: thanks, bye)
  • [19:58:35] <_av500_> ah
  • [19:58:59] <_av500_> inpoutattach only forwards the stuff to the kernel, spaceball support is in kernel
  • [19:59:10] <_av500_> drivers/input/joystick/spaceball.c
  • [20:00:11] <aholler> and maybe I should send a patch to remove probing from the i2c-subsystem, just to troll the kiddies
  • [20:00:18] * dj_pi (~dj@c-107-5-25-243.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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  • [20:17:29] <mranostay> aholler: churn!
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  • [20:49:13] * mranostay spots a davest
  • [20:49:31] <woglinde> trools
  • [20:49:43] <davest> mranostay: shhhh
  • [20:51:58] * mranostay loads up his FRI2
  • [20:55:51] * davest (Adium@nat/intel/x-fceudmhkzydfuemv) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  • [21:06:14] <ka6sox> you woke him up mranostay
  • [21:06:24] <ka6sox> I'm hoping I get one of those FRI2's :D
  • [21:13:35] <mranostay> ka6sox: didn't go to Yoctopus Day?
  • [21:15:40] * rick_ (~rick@111-251-73-76.dynamic.hinet.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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  • [21:18:09] <ka6sox> not this year...LAST year....
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  • [21:23:26] <mranostay> ka6sox: you should be on the list
  • [21:23:30] <mranostay> did you leave early?
  • [21:37:31] <ka6sox> mranostay, I think I am, and no I didn't leave "early"
  • [21:37:48] <ka6sox> this one I *did* leave early because I had to speak @ SCaLE Friday.
  • [21:38:16] * dj_pi (~dj@c-107-5-25-243.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  • [21:42:31] <_av500_> aholler: I just tried, as soon as you install FTDI drivers in XP, it autodetects a serial mouse :)
  • [21:42:47] <_av500_> some OSs do get it right!
  • [21:44:28] <aholler> xp is old enough
  • [21:45:28] <_av500_> I'll try 7 next
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  • [21:46:12] <Kristina> Ugh, had to write an entry point for my kernel that could start stuff with the mmu disabled.
  • [21:46:15] <Kristina> http://pastebin.mozilla.org/2205576
  • [21:46:22] <Kristina> So I can boot it with uboot.
  • [21:46:37] <Kristina> :(
  • [21:48:18] <_av500_> so your kernel assumes MMU enabled?
  • [21:48:27] <_av500_> with what mapping?
  • [21:49:37] <Kristina> _av500_: The old entry point (_start, at the bottom) was called with the MMU enabled an the temp mapping initialized.
  • [21:49:47] <_av500_> A+ for creative labels
  • [21:49:57] <_av500_> called by whom?
  • [21:50:18] <_av500_> git.kernel.org[0: 23.21.224.150]: errno=Connection timed out
  • [21:50:21] <_av500_> gah
  • [21:50:43] <Kristina> _av500_: BootKit (my boot instrumentation)
  • [21:50:57] <_av500_> then make uboot load bootkit
  • [21:51:12] <Kristina> But I figured making my kernel bootable by uBoot straight away would also be nice.
  • [21:51:21] <_av500_> yes
  • [21:51:34] <Kristina> _av500_: BootKit actually has omap support, it can act as the preliminary and secondary bootloader.
  • [21:51:48] <Kristina> But no filesystem support, and I can't be bothered to code it right now.
  • [21:52:17] <_av500_> there are not enough botloaders in the world...
  • [21:52:25] <Kristina> BootKit is great.
  • [21:52:35] <Kristina> Inspired by iBoot.
  • [21:53:14] <Kristina> It has threading, a graphical console, HFS+ support, an XML parser and all sorts of other stuff.
  • [21:53:27] <_av500_> email?
  • [21:53:39] <Kristina> _av500_: No, but it does have a TCP stack :)
  • [21:53:49] <_av500_> make it have email
  • [21:53:54] <_av500_> then it will be done
  • [21:54:13] <Kristina> Laugh all you want, I love my bootloader.
  • [21:54:22] * emeb_mac (~ericb@ip72-223-89-10.ph.ph.cox.net) Quit (Quit: emeb_mac)
  • [21:54:31] <_av500_> sure
  • [21:54:35] <_av500_> I love my kids too
  • [21:55:27] <Kristina> MY CATS ARE MY BABIES.
  • [21:56:56] <Kristina> Hm, so now I need to do something about device trees.
  • [21:57:11] <Kristina> uBoot has support for FDTs.
  • [21:57:25] <Kristina> Which are of course incompatible with Apple Device Trees.
  • [21:59:07] <_av500_> cant you append them to the kernel?
  • [21:59:16] <_av500_> so you just have one file to load?
  • [21:59:41] <Kristina> Well, the bootloader has to patch the DT.
  • [21:59:56] <Kristina> BootKit compiles the DT. iBoot patches a compiled DT.
  • [22:00:10] <_av500_> yes, these inssane concepts exist
  • [22:01:05] <Kristina> What's wrong with compiled device trees? :(
  • [22:01:14] <_av500_> nothing
  • [22:01:50] <_av500_> the bootloader messing with them is
  • [22:01:59] <biot> prpplague: ping
  • [22:02:13] <Kristina> For some reason, I doubt that I'm ever going to get iOS running on Omap3.
  • [22:02:39] <_av500_> if the reason is that uboot does not speak apple DT, thats invalid
  • [22:02:53] <_av500_> omap3 DT will not change, make a fixed one and be done
  • [22:03:25] <Kristina> The reason for that is that there is an insane amount of drivers used by frameworks like Celestial/Fig.
  • [22:03:34] <Kristina> The DT thing is not a big issue.
  • [22:03:59] <Kristina> I can just compile the DT and copy and paste the patcher from the other boot friends.
  • [22:04:35] <_av500_> so what is that fig thing?
  • [22:04:51] <Kristina> Oh, it's a media framework on iOS.
  • [22:04:59] <_av500_> except for a fig tree as google suggests
  • [22:05:00] <_av500_> ah
  • [22:05:28] <Kristina> _av500_: Well, Fig is an internal prefix used for Celestial components. It's a play on the Celeste Fig tree.
  • [22:06:01] <_av500_> I guessed that much by now :)
  • [22:06:43] <Kristina> I didn't actually know that, I found that out from one of the engineers who worked on the media stuff.
  • [22:06:57] <Kristina> I thought Fig was an abbreviation.
  • [22:11:00] <Kristina> _av500_: The reason for all the bootloader patching insanity is that XNU was originally brought up on PPC where the firmware actually compiled the DeviceTree at boot using the hardware description tables. So the DT was used to pass a lot of info to the kernel, like the addresses of preloaded kernel extensions.
  • [22:11:17] <Kristina> It was abused for all sorts of non-hardware-description related things.
  • [22:12:06] <Kristina> Which made sense on a platform where all hardware was described in a unified way.
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  • [22:16:12] <Kristina> XNU is highly modular.
  • [22:16:48] <Kristina> Like on Linux, you don't really have the concept of boot-time kernel extensions. They're either compiled in, or loaded as kmods.
  • [22:17:56] <Kristina> While on XNU, the actual kernel image is just the kernel image.
  • [22:17:59] <_av500_> well, I guess one could shoehorn boot time module loading in
  • [22:18:45] <Kristina> In XNU, kernel modules are either: prelinked, loaded at boot time or loaded by userland.
  • [22:18:48] <_av500_> damn, this Genius mouse is beyond fixing, rollers have corroded
  • [22:20:06] <Kristina> XNU has amazing interprocess communication functionality, thanks to mach.
  • [22:20:48] <Kristina> There are a lot of things that I like about XNU.
  • [22:21:02] <Kristina> It has a lot of the things that I would like Linux to have.
  • [22:21:19] <_av500_> send patches :)
  • [22:21:53] <Kristina> _av500_: some of the core design ideas behind xnu and mach go against Linus' ideas and he has strongly expressed that.
  • [22:22:03] <_av500_> I know
  • [22:22:19] <Kristina> xnu is also significantly slower than linux (when you look at the raw kernel performance)
  • [22:22:37] <_av500_> I shook hands with Mr. microkernel two weeks ago
  • [22:22:44] * dj_pi (~dj@c-107-5-25-243.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  • [22:22:47] <Kristina> Who would that be?
  • [22:23:11] <_av500_> the "Linux is oboslete" guy, Mr. Tananbaum
  • [22:23:31] <Kristina> People don't really get how nice xnu is until they try it.
  • [22:24:10] <_av500_> on my iphone?
  • [22:24:46] <Kristina> _av500_: You don't really see XNU on your phone :)
  • [22:25:00] <Kristina> As far as you are concerned, it might as well be running Linux.
  • [22:25:02] <_av500_> then I guess I dont see its "niceness" either :)
  • [22:25:03] * Russ__ is now known as Russ
  • [22:28:51] <Kristina> iOS is amazing.
  • [22:29:14] <Kristina> In terms of the design that goes behind it, nothing ever came close.
  • [22:29:55] <woglinde> av500 where did you meet tannbaum?
  • [22:30:16] <Kristina> It's sad that Android went the opposite way and became a complete mess of an OS.
  • [22:30:36] <woglinde> kernel or userland?
  • [22:31:00] * Guest60846 (~bleh1@178.16.13.172) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  • [22:31:08] <Kristina> Well, Linux is just Linux. It's there. It works.
  • [22:31:13] <Kristina> The Android userland is terrible.
  • [22:31:17] <Kristina> From the ground up.
  • [22:31:37] <Kristina> The design decisions that went into Android are terrible.
  • [22:31:54] <woglinde> hm it works
  • [22:31:59] <woglinde> thats whats matter
  • [22:32:00] <Kristina> I mean, as a crazy thesis project, Dalvik may have been a good idea.
  • [22:32:39] <woglinde> and that I can modify it
  • [22:32:52] <woglinde> can not do this with ios
  • [22:34:40] <Kristina> Having something like an open foundation for an open iOS would be cool.
  • [22:34:56] <Kristina> I had this idea for quite some time but never got to it.
  • [22:35:03] <Kristina> Some day ...
  • [22:35:27] <_av500_> what for? ios userland is all closed
  • [22:36:04] <Kristina> The main two components of iOS are UIKit and CA.
  • [22:37:01] <Kristina> Foundation/CoreFoundation are open. libSystem is open. libObjC is open.
  • [22:38:00] <_av500_> so people will use that to write their own apps?
  • [22:38:39] <_av500_> the appeal of android is thta you git clone, make and you have a 95% functional build
  • [22:38:54] <_av500_> missing only a few google apps
  • [22:40:49] <woglinde> av500 repo you mean
  • [22:41:11] <_av500_> well, yes
  • [22:42:07] <Kristina> _av500_: Basically, iOS consists of two "components".
  • [22:42:49] <Kristina> The front end stuff (ish) and the "Core Technologies".
  • [22:44:14] <Kristina> Things like QuartzCore, libsystem, libdispatch, Foundation/CoreFoundation, IOSurface. IOMFB, UIKit would go under the first group.
  • [22:45:04] <Kristina> These components are significant and they sort of provide a facade for the OS.
  • [22:45:18] <Kristina> Apps like Facebook only rely on those bits.
  • [22:45:26] <Kristina> Then you have the "Core Technologies".
  • [22:45:43] <Kristina> CoreAudio, CoreMedia, Celestial, CoreVideo etc.
  • [22:46:30] <Kristina> The second group would be categorized under "even if you had the sourced, they would still be a bitch to port".
  • [22:46:36] <Kristina> sources*
  • [22:48:14] <woglinde> ieehks phoronix again
  • [22:48:15] <woglinde> Building Linux With LLVM/Clang Excites The Embedded World
  • [22:48:44] <woglinde> av500 you are exicted by clang?
  • [22:48:49] <Kristina> I am!
  • [22:49:28] <Kristina> iOS 1.0 was designed by a small team. It is obvious from looking at it.
  • [22:49:39] <Kristina> iOS 5.0 was designed by hundreds of people.
  • [22:50:03] <woglinde> why they need now hundreds people?
  • [22:50:15] <woglinde> and why they need to desing the architecure new
  • [22:50:57] <Kristina> What I meant is, the number of people working on iOS increased dramatically from 1.0 to 5.0.
  • [22:51:19] <woglinde> and?
  • [22:51:28] <woglinde> mom
  • [22:51:39] <woglinde> architects or programmers
  • [22:52:02] <woglinde> kernelland or userspace
  • [22:52:15] <Kristina> Everything. There is even a dedicated team for working on libm.
  • [22:52:47] <woglinde> and what is telling me that or what should I learn from this
  • [22:52:56] <Kristina> Nothing.
  • [22:53:18] <woglinde> and why do I need a team on libm
  • [22:53:31] <woglinde> arm assembler do make it 1% faster?
  • [22:54:04] <Kristina> Actually, it's around 7%.
  • [22:54:28] <woglinde> numbercrunching iphone
  • [22:54:31] <woglinde> yeah
  • [22:54:47] <Kristina> Well, libm is used for all sorts of stuff.
  • [22:55:26] <woglinde> hm how often do I need sqrt
  • [22:55:57] <_av500_> woglinde: I am not excited by anything
  • [22:56:01] <_av500_> so not even by clang
  • [22:56:11] <Kristina> Well, you might not need it that often. A game engine might, though.
  • [22:56:13] <woglinde> hm anyway my wife had the evil look, good nite
  • [22:56:58] <_av500_> good luck
  • [22:59:43] <_av500_> Kristina: leaving the ios strcture aside, what good is your potential foundation
  • [22:59:52] <_av500_> people can already write apps for ios
  • [23:01:14] <Kristina> Leaving the iOS structure aside, there isn't much difference.
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  • [23:01:49] <Kristina> This conversation is making me very sad for some reason.
  • [23:02:34] <_av500_> didnt mean to make you sad
  • [23:03:25] <_av500_> ios might be beatiful, but as long as it is locked away in iStuff, it wont matter
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  • [23:07:30] <Kristina> :'(
  • [23:09:14] <_av500_> oh gee
  • [23:09:25] <_av500_> milk and a cookie?
  • [23:09:30] <Kristina> I feel utterly pointless now.
  • [23:09:45] <_av500_> nah, dont listen to what I say
  • [23:09:49] <_av500_> I mgiht be all wrong
  • [23:09:58] <_av500_> after all, Im just a nick on some irc channel
  • [23:10:22] <Kristina> You are right. But I don't like the reality of things. It makes me sad.
  • [23:10:33] <Kristina> So I pretend that the things I do have a point.
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  • [23:38:36] <amstan_> what's the voltage tolerance on the 5V dc plug?
  • [23:38:55] <amstan_> it seems arch likes to panic every other boot(more often lately)
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