• [00:02:10] <mranostay> wmat: send some of that inventory this way :P
  • [00:05:06] <wmat> mranostay: heh, sand cash this way. I'll trade for guitars or old trs-80s ;)
  • [00:06:05] <wmat> mranostay: although, most of it will get used this year a lot more as I hope to work on more tools, like OpenOCD
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  • [00:52:30] <nobdoor> Question! Does the Beagleboard-XM always require a null modem cable??
  • [00:52:56] <nobdoor> I can communicate without one from one tty port to another, on a different machine
  • [00:53:25] <nobdoor> however I need to cross tx/and rx lines to read a device I have
  • [00:53:53] <nobdoor> while this device can communicate without crossed lines to my non-beagleboard machines
  • [00:55:20] <nobdoor> Beagleboard-XM -> nullModem -> GPSdevice = good
  • [00:55:44] <nobdoor> Beagleboard-XM -> MtoFrs232 -> can't talk
  • [00:56:15] <nobdoor> Beagleboard-XM -> MtoFrs232 -> anyTTYport = good
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  • [00:57:23] <nobdoor> damn I screwed that up. msg at 17.55 is supposed to be going to GPSdevice
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  • [01:31:34] <mranostay> what is with people using consoles in vnc sessions...
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  • [01:51:35] <strata> does anyone know why setting mux mode 6 on gpmc_wait0 and gpmc_wpn 'turns off' the usb host?
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  • [01:52:18] <mranostay> is it muxed with the USB signals?
  • [01:52:37] <strata> i'm not sure. but mode 6 turns those 2 pins into a uart
  • [01:53:32] <mranostay> ah yeah looking almightly SRM it doesn't seem like that should happen
  • [01:53:35] <strata> afaik on the beaglebone there's no usb access on the P8,P9 headers whatsoever. i could be wrong but i wasn't able to find them.
  • [01:53:46] <mranostay> ah right d'oh
  • [01:54:07] <strata> so it's strange that setting those two pins would turn off the host.
  • [01:54:13] <strata> as in: no voltage whatsoever.
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  • [01:54:45] <strata> if i go back to the default mux mode, it comes back alive.
  • [01:55:05] <mranostay> how about other mux modes?
  • [01:56:38] <strata> haven't tried other modes. the uart was what i intended to use.
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  • [02:04:09] <kannankariraman> hi
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  • [02:10:23] <_troll_> mranostay: when people use consoles through vnc, RUN
  • [02:10:47] <mranostay> i can't yet
  • [02:11:04] <mranostay> windows peoplez too
  • [02:11:16] * nashpa (~nashpa@dliviu.plus.com) Quit (Quit: Going away)
  • [02:11:20] <_troll_> yes, run from those
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  • [02:12:27] <mranostay> _troll_: this guy has 31 ssh sessions open to the same box
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  • [02:12:56] <_troll_> I have 15 open to my main machine
  • [02:13:12] <_troll_> many of them from the laptop across the room
  • [02:13:22] <kannankariraman> hi, I need to access a adc pcf8591 via I2C. i need to write/cross compile a driver for it. can some one please point me in the direction for cross compiling <or> recompiling the kernel (from x86 to ARM)
  • [02:13:31] <kannankariraman> thanks
  • [02:13:57] <mranostay> _troll_: don't like screen?
  • [02:14:21] <_troll_> screen has nothing to do with it
  • [02:15:04] <thurbad> can you give a little background info such as which distro? kernel version,etc
  • [02:15:20] <mranostay> thurbad: don't try to be confused with facts!
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  • [02:16:37] <_troll_> mranostay: I have ~20 xterm windows open on the laptop, mostly running ssh to the big machine
  • [02:17:52] <kannankariraman> oh sorry; Angstrom, 2.6.32. got the image built online from angstrom image builder
  • [02:18:56] <thurbad> do you already have the angstrom-setup-scripts repo downloaded?
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  • [02:20:34] <kannankariraman> yes(?) in the image generated, there was a boot folder with lot of scr files. are they the setup scripts?
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  • [02:21:20] <kannankariraman> I've been able to setup the beagleboard over network and can user eclipse to run programs. the chip shows up in I2C-detect at 0x48
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  • [02:23:18] <thurbad> run oebb.sh bitbake -fc devshell virtual/kernel
  • [02:23:49] <thurbad> that will open a terminal that you can run make menuconfig
  • [02:24:10] <thurbad> if you have a driver that you want to enable that would be the place to enable it
  • [02:25:07] <thurbad> then run oebb.sh bitbake -c compile virtual/kernel; oebb.sh -c deploy virtual/kernel
  • [02:26:00] <kannankariraman> thurbad: thanks for the info, i'll run it and check...
  • [02:27:06] <thurbad> that will build uimage with your configuration in the build/tmp.../deploy/glibc/images/beagleboard or similar path
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  • [02:27:35] <thurbad> (without doing the rm work step so that you can work on the driver if need be without restaging the kernel
  • [02:28:22] <_troll_> why would anyone build a kernel through oe while actively working on it?
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  • [02:29:03] <thurbad> got a better way.. suggestions are welcome
  • [02:29:19] <_troll_> make menuconfig; make; hack; make; hack
  • [02:29:40] <_troll_> oe is just useless complexity for building a kernel
  • [02:30:09] <_troll_> it's probably great for building all the userspace stuff with complex interdependencies
  • [02:30:13] <thurbad> then you can explain all the cross compile options too :P
  • [02:31:01] <_troll_> make ARCH=arm CROSS_COMPILE=arm-whatever-linux-gnueabihfxyz-
  • [02:31:18] <thurbad> not promising the best experience... just a way to get it working with minimal effort
  • [02:31:28] <kannankariraman> troll: i enabled pcf8591 in menuconfig and saved the configuration. make gives me the error (sorry am on windows now)... thats where am stuck...
  • [02:31:30] <_troll_> if you can't figure that out, you _really_ should not be trying to _MODIFY_ the kernel
  • [02:32:16] <thurbad> after `make menuconfig` did you exit the devshell?
  • [02:32:52] <kannankariraman> yes
  • [02:33:00] <_troll_> without seeing the error message it's hard to give good suggestions
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  • [02:33:37] <kannankariraman> yes. i understand... i'll save the message nextime and post it..
  • [02:33:45] <kannankariraman> thanks for your help though
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  • [04:20:49] <jtmitch> Good evening
  • [04:21:29] <jtmitch> I was curious if anyone familiar with using the GPIO's is watching? Not sure I understand when you do or don't use a pullup/down resistor
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  • [04:27:23] <jtmitch> nobody eh? Is this room busier at any particular time?
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  • [04:33:03] <Russ> ...you use one when the application calls for it
  • [04:34:00] <jtmitch> such as?
  • [04:34:12] <jtmitch> needing to maintain a logical high or low state?
  • [04:34:15] <Russ> when you need a pull-up or pull-down resistor
  • [04:35:03] <jtmitch> I realize it's a noobish question, but a little more clarity is all I was looking for
  • [04:35:26] <jtmitch> Never had someone ask you a question and it makes you suddenly not quite sure of what you know for a second?
  • [04:35:30] <Russ> well it's a logic input, you can't leave it floating
  • [04:35:44] <jtmitch> thanks
  • [04:35:50] <jtmitch> that affirms my prior knowledge
  • [04:36:07] <Russ> If you aren't sure what a pull-up or pull-down resistor is, or what its for, the information is super easy to find
  • [04:36:14] <jtmitch> does the beagle board (I dont' have or use one) have internal pu/pd resistors?
  • [04:36:28] <Russ> iirc, yes
  • [04:36:35] <Russ> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pull-up_resistor
  • [04:37:07] <thurbad> yes it can be configured as either
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  • [04:46:37] * mranostay tosses free virtual Leffe's in the channel
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  • [04:48:23] * mranostay fastballs one to Russ
  • [04:54:51] * Russ wasn't even looking
  • [04:54:58] <Russ> (6 minutes later)
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  • [04:56:28] <mranostay> why does LinkedIn new profile have a "Personal Details"
  • [04:57:06] <mranostay> why would i want HR to know questions they can't ask like my age and marital status
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  • [07:29:14] <panto> hi
  • [07:31:06] <dm8tbr> good moaning
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  • [07:50:29] <mranostay> panto: did it get balder in here!?!?
  • [07:50:36] * panto kicks mr
  • [07:50:38] * panto kicks mranostay
  • [07:50:41] <panto> ugh
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  • [07:53:49] <LetoThe2nd> charming as always :=
  • [07:54:16] <mranostay> yeah i rarely hear that one
  • [07:54:49] <mranostay> but thank goodness for alcohol :P
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  • [07:55:23] <LetoThe2nd> mranostay: you're welcome.
  • [07:55:42] <mranostay> LetoThe2nd: you are much less bald
  • [07:55:52] <mranostay> _much_
  • [07:58:08] <LetoThe2nd> \o/
  • [07:58:20] <mranostay> |o|
  • [07:58:23] <mranostay> /o/
  • [07:58:27] <mranostay> \o\
  • [07:58:32] <mranostay> -o-
  • [07:58:34] <panto> but not for long...
  • [08:00:41] <LetoThe2nd> mranostay: something for you to sing along: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRnmpC98xkQ
  • [08:02:01] <mranostay> LetoThe2nd: or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Yg8MuaWMT0
  • [08:02:27] <LetoThe2nd> hrhrhrhr
  • [08:02:31] * lyakh (~lyakh@dslb-178-001-231-154.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  • [08:02:48] <mranostay> need to go to Boston for a Patty's Day
  • [08:03:04] <mranostay> and completely not remember a minute of it...
  • [08:04:12] <KotH> JIHAD!
  • [08:04:44] * mranostay breaks a beer bottle over KotH
  • [08:05:13] * KotH pulls the trigger on his bomb belt
  • [08:06:23] * mranostay pops on Dropkick Murphys list
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  • [08:07:29] <LetoThe2nd> mranostay: i was on the very same tour as http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEzvM0h0zNc just on sunday ;)
  • [08:08:28] * cacodaemon (~abaddon@178.121.196.26) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  • [08:10:33] <mranostay> great coding music
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  • [08:11:40] <mranostay> i think my coworkers love my earbuds blaring some heavy metal today.. i had to drown out the java talk some how :)
  • [08:14:07] * cacodaemon (~abaddon@178.121.196.26) has joined #beagle
  • [08:15:16] <KotH> java talk?
  • [08:15:58] * Grundfisch (~abaddon@178.121.196.26) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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  • [08:20:50] <mranostay> KotH: i work with java monkeys
  • [08:21:38] * Guest95636 (~bleh1@87.254.72.190) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  • [08:22:33] <KotH> why would you do that?
  • [08:22:42] <KotH> and dont tell me you're young and need the money
  • [08:24:46] <mranostay> KotH: i'm not in java monkey team thank god
  • [08:25:02] <KotH> you are still near to them
  • [08:25:10] <KotH> the germs are everywhere!
  • [08:25:17] <mranostay> no i'm young and needed "free" relocation
  • [08:25:34] <LetoThe2nd> KotH: germ kn??dels?
  • [08:25:55] <KotH> mranostay: you're still in the us... so it didnt work out very well... did it?
  • [08:26:06] <KotH> LetoThe2nd: i'm not the kn?del type
  • [08:26:15] <KotH> LetoThe2nd: rather iskender kebab, or karni yarik
  • [08:26:23] <KotH> LetoThe2nd: or manti
  • [08:26:48] <LetoThe2nd> germkn??del != kn??del
  • [08:27:16] <mranostay> KotH: i've lived in bumfuck parts of the US before this :)
  • [08:27:25] <mranostay> panto will confirm :)
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  • [08:29:15] <mranostay> KotH: US is a big place only two to three real places to work
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  • [08:34:35] <KotH> LetoThe2nd: so ka
  • [08:34:39] <KotH> LetoThe2nd: didn't know that
  • [08:34:43] * cacodaemon (~abaddon@178.121.196.26) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  • [08:35:51] <KotH> LetoThe2nd: still, rather dibi yandi :)
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  • [08:46:19] <mranostay> KotH: i hope you know you are getting us all on watchlists :)
  • [08:46:34] <tasslehoff> koen: is angstrom-v2012.12-yocto1.3 ready for the not-so-general public? some issues making stuff build.
  • [08:47:14] <koen> tasslehoff: it should be
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  • [08:52:27] <tasslehoff> koen: http://pastebin.com/nSiMkB7U, *could* be my toolchain/sdk recipe, but I'm not sure
  • [08:53:23] <tasslehoff> ouch. it *is* me
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  • [08:58:21] <tasslehoff> koen: hm, no. meta-toolchain-qte doesn't build either
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  • [09:26:52] <KotH> mranostay: that's the goal! :)
  • [09:32:06] <Russ> http://www.engadget.com/2012/12/11/ti-audi-jacinto-5-infotainment-system/
  • [09:32:07] <Russ> umm...
  • [09:32:12] <Russ> someone should tell audi
  • [09:32:36] * bizulk1 (~sli@195.6.193.205) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  • [09:32:41] <Russ> oh, it's a dm
  • [09:33:33] <panto> Russ, and qnx...
  • [09:37:33] <koen> ah, jacinto
  • [09:38:14] <koen> tasslehoff: I am currently working on getting the base images working well, I haven't looked at SDKs and such yet
  • [09:38:17] <keesj> the car looks weird
  • [09:38:56] <tasslehoff> koen: console-image also fails for me with the same dependency chain
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  • [09:56:09] <tasslehoff> koen: do I need some linaro-toolchain installed?
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  • [10:24:54] <yegorich> Hi! I'm trying to change resolution on am335x via fbset. The newest arago kernel provides fb_set_par facilities and it seems as if lcd controller would do the right thing and monitor reports proper resolution, but the picture is wrong. It seems that X doesn't switch it's resolution. Any idea?
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  • [11:13:06] <LoseAws> hello everyone, I have a problem, I wanna set wifi in the beagleboard with android2.1, but when I click the wifi, the putty window show me this, init cannot execve(&#39;/system/bin/wpa_supplicant&#39;) permission denied
  • [11:13:38] <LoseAws> how can I correct it
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  • [11:22:16] <keesj> LoseAws: check the file is present (eg ls /system/bin) executable ls -l /system/bin/wpa_supplicant, try running it from the command line , check the logs e.g. logcat -d and the kernel logs.
  • [11:28:39] <LoseAws> keesj: thank you for ur answer, i had tried to run it from commond line, it showed the same message, and I can't check the log cuz the device is not here
  • [11:29:41] <LoseAws> it's excutable as well
  • [11:29:45] <keesj> you need to figure out if it's the file is that not executable or something else.
  • [11:30:59] <keesj> if it is something else probably it's probably either related to the kernel (e.g. missing some modules) or to the capabilities given to the process. in booth cases it's best to instrument the code.
  • [11:32:30] <keesj> so you need to figure out if it starts properly (on normal linux I would use strace or similar) but in android I don't think you have that. just start it using the gdbclient
  • [11:34:37] <keesj> something like I written here: https://github.com/keesj/gomo/wiki/AndroidGdbDebugging (that's all I can and want to help with) good luck.
  • [11:35:09] <LoseAws> well, i ll check it tomorrow, thx for ur answer, and thx again
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  • [13:59:25] <manta> hi
  • [13:59:44] <manta> i need serious help regarding a beagleboard xm
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  • [14:01:05] <manta> so i've been tampering a bit with GPIO pins trying to make a working keypad on it
  • [14:01:52] <KotH> .o0(#beagle, serious business)
  • [14:01:59] <manta> anyway, my roommate thought it'd be a good idea to scare me, so my hand slipped and accidentally shorted some pins on the GPIO header
  • [14:02:45] <manta> now all the poor thing does is two lit up LEDs (D5 and D14) and a 0x00 on serial
  • [14:02:56] <manta> is there any chance to "unbrick" it?
  • [14:03:12] <KotH> change the part that's fried
  • [14:03:25] <_troll_> can you unfry an egg?
  • [14:03:46] <KotH> _troll_: with the right chemicals, of course
  • [14:05:21] <manta> it's most likely the DM3730, right?
  • [14:06:27] <KotH> i dont know what you are measuring, nor do i know the schematics
  • [14:06:31] <KotH> it can be anything
  • [14:06:46] <KotH> most likely the part that is directly connected to the gpio pins, but not necessarily
  • [14:07:03] <manta> and that part is the DM3730
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  • [14:07:10] <KotH> the only way to know is to debug your board using a dmm and an oscilloscope
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  • [14:11:53] <thurbad> if you removed ALL the solder and still nothing but 0x00 on the serial prognossis is not good
  • [14:12:52] <thurbad> or were you moving wire around on a live board?
  • [14:14:22] <manta> i attached a keypad i made
  • [14:14:34] <manta> what shorted a gpio to ground
  • [14:15:32] * rsalveti (~rsalveti@linaro/rsalveti) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  • [14:15:59] <manta> does anyone know on what potential VBAT_MAIN should be?
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  • [14:48:35] <cezane> hi
  • [14:49:05] <cezane> did anyone already work with java rxtx lib running on angstrom?
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  • [15:05:33] <cezane_> Hi
  • [15:05:51] <cezane_> did anyone already work with java rxtx lib running on beagleboard/angstrom?
  • [15:05:55] * mthalmeiz is now known as mthalmei
  • [15:06:03] <cezane_> I have an application using the java rxtx lib to communicate through serial port, but after some time running, the reading of serial port 'freezes'
  • [15:06:08] <koen> jkridner_: you'll need to replace the kernel, but give http://dominion.thruhere.net/koen/angstrom/beaglebone/v2012.12/ a try
  • [15:06:18] <cezane_> I already set the flow control to 'none', but is still freezing...
  • [15:06:39] <cezane_> if anyone can help me, please see the code here: http://pastebin.com/UyeyGjZt
  • [15:07:28] * mthalmei is now known as mthalmei_away
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  • [15:10:32] <keesj> cezane_: try instrumenting your code (like actually doing something when an exception is thrown)
  • [15:12:21] <KotH> cezane_: or write a small c snipped that reads the serial port ad infinitum and see whether this blocks
  • [15:12:38] * KotH would guess that the problem is java and not the kernel or hardware
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  • [15:12:53] <cezane_> hi, kessj... did you see my code here: http://pastebin.com/UyeyGjZt ?
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  • [15:13:16] <keesj> yes , perhaps http://embeddedgeeks.wordpress.com/2012/02/26/arduino-beagleboard-serial-communication-using-java-rxtx/ is better to follow
  • [15:14:05] <KotH> wtf...
  • [15:14:15] <KotH> 150 lines to just handle a serial port?
  • [15:14:22] <KotH> and that using a lib?
  • [15:14:25] * KotH is astonished
  • [15:14:27] <keesj> your code looks like http://www.slideshare.net/daltoncezane/how-to-communicate-java-application-via-serial-port-on-beagleboard-running-angstrom#btnPrevious it looks like code from a c programmer trying to do some java :P
  • [15:14:55] * rsalveti_ (~rsalveti@linaro/rsalveti) has joined #beagle
  • [15:14:56] <mdp> stupid C programmers
  • [15:17:02] <thurbad> cezane_: what are you doing on 114.. reitinitalizing your result, and using string concatenation is slow
  • [15:18:22] * rsalveti_ (~rsalveti@linaro/rsalveti) Quit (Client Quit)
  • [15:19:18] <cezane_> keesj, this slideshare is mine :) but I am a java programmer and get this code at internet... maybe from a c programmer...
  • [15:19:19] <jacekowski> java sucks
  • [15:19:25] <jacekowski> it would take 3 lines of code in C
  • [15:20:01] <cezane_> thurbad, do you think the problem can be this concatenation?
  • [15:20:36] <thurbad> I just wandered back in.. dunno what the actual problem is
  • [15:20:44] <thurbad> just stating an observation
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  • [15:21:22] <keesj> but just ignorring the errors and exceptions is just asking for trouble. first fix that problem
  • [15:22:20] <thurbad> agreed... even printing a stack trace is better than nothing
  • [15:22:33] * cezane (c88146fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.200.129.70.252) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  • [15:23:23] <thurbad> handling an exception with an empty block is generally a bad idea
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  • [15:27:00] <thurbad> also unless you're running 2.6.32 or older you don't want ttyS2
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  • [15:32:19] <cezane> I'm back... my connection had been closed...
  • [15:38:08] <KotH> thurbad: why?
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  • [15:49:11] <Estevao> hi, my beaglebone ethernet is not working. When I use the command dmesg | grep PHY, it shows "PHY 0.00 not found PHY 0.01 not found". Someone can help me?
  • [15:51:59] <thurbad> KotH ttyS2 changed to ttyO0
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  • [15:52:34] <thurbad> assuming that's what cezane was going for
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  • [15:58:02] <KotH> ok
  • [15:58:04] <KotH> thanks
  • [16:02:34] <mranostay> morning trolls
  • [16:03:34] <cezane> sorry, thurbad... I did not understand...
  • [16:03:35] <KotH> g?naydin mranostay
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  • [16:03:56] <cezane> at beagleboard, the serial port is ttyS2
  • [16:04:03] <thurbad> what kernel are you running?
  • [16:04:10] <KotH> cezane: he answered my question why using /dev/ttyS2 is a bad idea for kernels later than 2.6.32
  • [16:05:25] <cezane> I am using 2.6.32... --> "Linux beagleboard 2.6.32 ... ... armv7l unknown"
  • [16:06:34] <Estevao> hi, my beaglebone ethernet is not working. When I use the command dmesg | grep PHY, it shows "PHY 0.00 not found PHY 0.01 not found". Someone can help me?
  • [16:07:11] <cezane> strange is the fact that this java application runs ok at a x86 machine, without freeze, but when I put to beagleboard, the problem occurs after some time...
  • [16:11:30] <thurbad> what /is/ the problem?
  • [16:12:39] <thurbad> Estevao: not ignoring.. .just don't know much about the beaglebone... sorry
  • [16:13:13] <thurbad> Estevao: maybe if you posted your bootlog it would get some attention
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  • [16:19:06] <cezane> thurbad, do you have experience with java also? my problem is that my application is freezing when it communicates through serial port: it starts to read some data and, after a time, it stops... my code is here: http://pastebin.com/UyeyGjZt
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  • [16:23:48] <cezane> I'm back again
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  • [17:24:16] <halil> does anybody worked with webcams on beaglebone? I searched web and ask colleges but no help. I have select timeout error with black image read from camera.
  • [17:25:12] <halil> *colleagues
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  • [17:30:37] <jpastore> hi. i am a total noob. i was hoping someone can help with a simple test. i want to hook up a thermistor to the beagle bone and sample output to record a timestamp and the voltage. i have no idea where to begin.
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  • [17:38:20] <jpastore__> sorry i got disconnected. any help would be greatly appreciated.
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  • [17:45:35] <Tartarus> back
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  • [17:57:49] <jacekowski> jpastore: you can't just hook it up directly
  • [17:58:06] <jacekowski> as far as i know beaglebone has no way to sample anything anlogue
  • [17:58:23] <jacekowski> so you need some measuring circuitry and then send it to beaglebone
  • [17:58:54] <jacekowski> hmm, i may be wrong
  • [17:59:03] <jacekowski> but you still need measuring circuitry
  • [18:00:20] <jacekowski> jpastore: you need that thermistor and another resistor in series, connected in between ground and 1.8V and midpoint has to go to AIN
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  • [18:29:40] <georgem> Yay, just got my bone booting 3.7.0 with ptxdist
  • [18:30:38] <mranostay> time to drink?
  • [18:31:05] <georgem> Sounds like as good as an excuse as any :)
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  • [18:48:15] <mdp> I'm in!
  • [18:48:42] <mranostay> i told the bouncer to keep you out
  • [18:48:53] <mranostay> i want my bribe back!
  • [18:49:36] <mdp> tough...go play words with enemies instead
  • [18:49:39] <jpastore> jacekowski, i found an article. but it does not use a resistor. also the path to the ain does not exist. i have ubuntu loaded on the beaglebone. before i receive criticism it was the only method to get certain drivers working.
  • [18:50:04] <mranostay> mdp: 60 points! :P
  • [18:50:13] <jpastore> following the article with meter i see variance in temp. but i cannot find the file to reference ani1
  • [18:50:23] <mdp> mranostay, yes, nice ;)
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  • [19:39:21] <ds2> Hmmmm
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  • [20:06:00] <mranostay> _troll_: nice post
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  • [20:13:51] <_troll_> mranostay: which one?
  • [20:14:40] <mranostay> the beiber one
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  • [21:02:43] <unsolo__> hi guys
  • [21:03:05] <unsolo__> i was wondering if someone could lend me a hand on some simple neon gcc inline asm
  • [21:03:40] <unsolo__> a simple example such as a sqrt of a non vectorized double should be fine
  • [21:04:10] <unsolo__> which means we need to stick a scalar into a vector then extract it back out
  • [21:05:32] <unsolo__> anyone up for giving me some pointers ?
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  • [21:09:49] <unsolo__> vsqrt.f64 %P0,%P1 : "=w"(retval) :"w"(input) seems to work..
  • [21:09:56] <unsolo__> but thats a vfp version of it
  • [21:10:58] * mthalmei_away is now known as mthalmei
  • [21:11:23] <_troll_> there isn't a neon sqrt
  • [21:12:18] <_troll_> with the right flags gcc will generate scalar vsqrt for sqrt() calls
  • [21:12:21] <_troll_> no need for inline asm
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  • [21:12:57] <_troll_> -fno-math-errno -fno-signed-zeros or so should do the trick
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  • [21:17:38] <unsolo__> _troll provided you do not have a messed up libm and want to replace it with something fast and glorious
  • [21:18:03] <_troll_> you're writing your own libm?
  • [21:18:08] <unsolo__> jupp
  • [21:18:14] <_troll_> why?
  • [21:18:18] <unsolo__> fun
  • [21:18:21] <_troll_> what's wrong with the existing ones?
  • [21:18:27] <unsolo__> slow
  • [21:18:39] <unsolo__> not inline
  • [21:18:41] <unsolo__> etc
  • [21:19:00] <_troll_> I already said gcc will inline most simple math functions if you give it the right flags
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  • [21:19:12] <_troll_> -fno-math-errno is absolutely required for this to happen
  • [21:19:19] <unsolo__> cos sin log atan etc are not very inline
  • [21:19:28] <_troll_> nor should they be
  • [21:19:37] <_troll_> on x86 they are since x86 has instructions for those
  • [21:19:44] <_troll_> arm doesn't have sin/cos instructions
  • [21:19:56] <_troll_> so you need a fairly complicated sw implementation
  • [21:20:11] <_troll_> it ends up large enough that inlining is not a good idea
  • [21:20:16] <unsolo__> i have a 6 madd -> 12.1 digits precision version of cos
  • [21:20:28] <unsolo__> thats not whats in libm
  • [21:20:34] <_troll_> for what range of inputs?
  • [21:20:39] <unsolo__> all
  • [21:20:44] <_troll_> unpossible
  • [21:20:59] <unsolo__> well you do some range fixing
  • [21:21:03] <unsolo__> but thats a single div
  • [21:21:20] <_troll_> that sounds very wrong
  • [21:21:39] * mthalmei is now known as mthalmei_away
  • [21:24:22] <unsolo__> troll if you do a static inline cos(vector x) method of this and unroll a loop some im quite sure it will be insane http://www.ganssle.com/approx/approx.pdf
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  • [21:28:45] <unsolo__> _troll_: i compared my cosf implementation against the one in libm on my corei7 and it performed more or less 1:1
  • [21:28:58] <_troll_> so what's the problem with the libm one?
  • [21:29:05] <unsolo__> well knowing my i7 has instructions for it.
  • [21:29:39] <unsolo__> for my case its simply not compiled with vfp neon.
  • [21:29:55] <_troll_> why don't you compile it that way then?
  • [21:30:03] <_troll_> seems much simpler than rewriting it all
  • [21:30:39] <unsolo__> a i dont need all of it
  • [21:30:59] <unsolo__> b i can cut back on precision as i see fit to reduce computation
  • [21:31:31] <_troll_> I still think you should compile the usual libm with the right flags and only then decide if it's too slow
  • [21:31:47] <unsolo__> hehe i could
  • [21:32:01] <unsolo__> but then i wouldnt have learned all that i have learned :)
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  • [21:32:29] <_troll_> are you doing this to learn stuff or to complete a task?
  • [21:32:34] <unsolo__> and i still think a unrolled vectorized cos sounds fun
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  • [21:32:39] <unsolo__> _troll both
  • [21:33:50] <_troll_> those goals are often at odds
  • [21:34:20] <_troll_> you do use a ready-made compiler rather than writing your own, right?
  • [21:34:23] * edahling (~edahling@wbc.res.wpi.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  • [21:34:28] <unsolo__> problem is that im stuck with a codesourcery toolchain(dont ask ) and it lacked libm
  • [21:34:41] <_troll_> invalid excuse
  • [21:34:41] <unsolo__> well a vfp / neon libm
  • [21:34:51] <_troll_> you can always build it from source
  • [21:34:59] <unsolo__> indeed
  • [21:36:16] <unsolo__> but now it all works
  • [21:36:29] <unsolo__> and i first had to prove that this was the reason i was struggeling
  • [21:36:47] <unsolo__> so i needed a wrapper just to count number of times each method got called
  • [21:39:49] <unsolo__> btw how good is gcc at re arranging asm .. (eg how much can one gain by inlining methods)
  • [21:40:34] <_troll_> inline asm wreaks havok with the gcc scheduler
  • [21:40:35] <panto> unsolo__, depends
  • [21:40:50] <_troll_> sometimes the result is slower than not having the asm at all
  • [21:40:58] <_troll_> even if you don't get that special instruction
  • [21:41:05] <panto> _troll_, it's not so bad
  • [21:41:08] <unsolo__> _troll there is a difference between asm and static inline in c
  • [21:41:21] <_troll_> panto: yes, it is
  • [21:41:25] <_troll_> unsolo__: wtf does that mean?
  • [21:41:36] <panto> you have to check out the asm output & verify
  • [21:41:54] <_troll_> panto: yes, and sometimes you notice things got worse
  • [21:41:54] <panto> for some cases I've used it for, it was a win
  • [21:42:02] <_troll_> yes, frequently it is a win
  • [21:42:08] <_troll_> but _sometimes_ it's a loss
  • [21:42:15] <panto> well, that's why they pay us the big bucks!... snortle
  • [21:42:17] <_troll_> you _must_ benchmark and check
  • [21:42:30] <panto> listen to the _troll_
  • [21:42:57] <unsolo__> _troll_: indeed my experience is that the more you inline and unroll the faster things get untill you start hitting cache issues
  • [21:43:35] <_troll_> the trick is knowing when to stop
  • [21:43:44] <_troll_> branches are really very cheap on modern cpus
  • [21:43:44] <unsolo__> nevah
  • [21:44:03] <unsolo__> true
  • [21:44:22] <panto> fwiw, if you don't _need_ to use simd, or some weird instruction, static inline functions without asm can work fine
  • [21:44:25] <unsolo__> but branching also does not leave the compiler to stick things inbetween
  • [21:44:38] <unsolo__> panto: thats what im doing most of the tmie
  • [21:44:44] <_troll_> I recommend unrolling until you can eliminate most pipeline stalls in the loop or until the loop is at least 8 instructions or so
  • [21:45:11] <unsolo__> wouldnt the neon benefit from > 8 instructions in a blow
  • [21:45:21] <panto> instructions are cheap, it's the memory accesses that kill you
  • [21:45:37] <_troll_> yes, and instructions reside in memory
  • [21:45:56] <panto> for tight code, you're going to be in icache anyway
  • [21:46:06] <panto> we're not talking about jitted monsters
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  • [21:46:37] <_troll_> unless you can unroll a loop completely, don't exceed 16 instructions
  • [21:46:47] <_troll_> (unless a single iteration needs more, of course)
  • [21:46:54] <unsolo__> example lets say you do 6000 cos calls every 10ms and two of these are adjecent so that a1=cos(x) a2=cos(y) the benefit in this case of a inlined cos is indisputable of course a vectorized one would be even better
  • [21:47:03] <_troll_> if you do that you're insane
  • [21:47:38] <_troll_> calculating two cosines in parallel would of course be nifty
  • [21:47:43] <_troll_> but rather hard to do
  • [21:47:54] <unsolo__> not with the code link i gave you
  • [21:48:01] <unsolo__> it will do it just fine
  • [21:48:10] <unsolo__> with > double precision if you need it
  • [21:48:11] <_troll_> if it were easy it would already be the default
  • [21:48:41] * unsolo__ will write it up for the _troll some other day.. remind me to do that kristian.jerpetjoen@gmail.com
  • [21:49:23] <unsolo__> it should also be possible to do sin tan atan acos etc with same methods
  • [21:49:34] <_troll_> interleaving the calculation of two cosines or whatever is trivial of course
  • [21:49:49] <unsolo__> vectorized they can execute in paralell
  • [21:49:55] <unsolo__> no interleaving
  • [21:50:10] <_troll_> you can't fully vectorise it
  • [21:50:15] <unsolo__> and the interleaving i expect the compiler to do if the cos is inlined
  • [21:50:24] <unsolo__> _troll let me try!
  • [21:50:28] <_troll_> of course
  • [21:50:31] <unsolo__> email me and ill see what i can do
  • [21:50:34] * panto let's unsolo__ try
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  • [21:51:09] <panto> *lets
  • [21:51:17] <unsolo__> :)
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  • [21:51:51] <_troll_> in many cases you're better off using a precalculated lookup table
  • [21:52:12] <unsolo__> this has a higher precision
  • [21:52:19] <unsolo__> and its close to just as fast
  • [21:52:19] <_troll_> depends
  • [21:52:34] <unsolo__> but log2 and exp is a different tale
  • [21:52:36] <_troll_> if the input values are known to be from a small set
  • [21:52:44] <unsolo__> at least for the mantissa parts
  • [21:52:44] <_troll_> you can include all in the table
  • [21:52:49] <_troll_> that's how any decent fft workss
  • [21:52:59] <unsolo__> hihi
  • [21:53:03] <_troll_> damn, this keyboard bounces
  • [21:53:25] <unsolo__> on the ps3 i wrote a idct 8x8 (butterfly ) that took 181 instructions to complete..
  • [21:53:39] <unsolo__> which is a specialized fft
  • [21:54:15] <_troll_> I know the 8x8 idct quite well
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  • [21:54:19] <unsolo__> it would suprize me if its not faster to write a fft in neon than solving it using lookup
  • [21:54:37] <_troll_> the neon fft _includes_ a lookup table
  • [21:54:45] <unsolo__> and iirc using the neon you can still execute some other instructions
  • [21:55:06] <panto> the lookups will dirty your cache though
  • [21:55:14] <_troll_> uh?
  • [21:55:26] <unsolo__> the L1 will have to poll some from L2 perhaps..
  • [21:55:37] <unsolo__> but if the table is within a reasonable size it will reside in L2
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  • [21:56:04] <_troll_> it obviously depends on the size of the fft
  • [21:56:05] <unsolo__> but linear approximation for non linear functions introduces an error..
  • [21:56:05] <panto> which is fine if you're not doing anything else but run the algorithm
  • [21:56:24] <_troll_> for an 1k single-precision fft, the lookup table needs only 4kB
  • [21:56:28] <_troll_> that's well within L1
  • [21:56:40] <_troll_> there's no approximation
  • [21:56:53] <unsolo__> thats a huge table
  • [21:56:55] <unsolo__> ;)
  • [21:56:59] <_troll_> no it's not
  • [21:57:19] * unsolo__ is off to go home and sleep and celebrate that i got this piece of s working ;)
  • [21:57:21] <_troll_> "large" is more than half L1
  • [21:57:26] <_troll_> "huge" is more than half L2
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  • [21:57:52] <unsolo__> good thing there is multiple contextes working in L2 ;)
  • [21:58:29] <_troll_> if you're dealing with very large, sparse FFTs there are other tricks of course
  • [21:59:24] <unsolo__> libblas
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  • [22:23:35] <djlewis> clicking this button might make system unusable.
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