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  • [01:44:02] <Crofton> mru, does gcc 4.7 make you use fast-math to get neon?
  • [01:45:21] <mru> depends on what you mean
  • [01:45:54] <Crofton> so we are playing with some NEON stuff here
  • [01:46:18] <mru> you should only use -ffast-math if you're certain the things it does are safe with your code
  • [01:46:23] <Crofton> ans the guy doing the work said no neon until he turned on fast-math
  • [01:46:30] <mru> bullshit
  • [01:46:49] <Crofton> that is what I was was wondering
  • [01:46:57] <mru> some of the options -ffast-math enables are required for auto-vectoriser to be useful in some cases
  • [01:46:57] <ds2> how close is gcc 4.7 to what you can get with armcc?
  • [01:47:04] <Crofton> basically, he is trying to do something with intrinsics
  • [01:47:07] <mru> ds2: who cares?
  • [01:47:21] <mru> ds2: both are a far cry from what you can do by hand
  • [01:47:24] <Crofton> and without fast-math and -O something, the NEON disappered
  • [01:47:34] <mru> I say bullshit
  • [01:47:43] <Crofton> heh
  • [01:47:55] <mru> intrinsics give you the instructions you say provided you have -mfpu=neon
  • [01:48:00] <Crofton> I wish I had a small example
  • [01:48:08] <Crofton> hmm,
  • [01:48:16] <ds2> I thought armcc will do some basic stuff w/o using intrinsics?
  • [01:48:22] <mru> ds2: as will gcc
  • [01:48:30] <mru> some *very* basic stuff
  • [01:48:35] <Crofton> we'll look further
  • [01:48:48] <mru> in my testing, the auto-vectoriser does more harm than good
  • [01:48:58] <ds2> I see
  • [01:49:19] <tholm> hi all, I'm working with SPI, I need to do a pulse on Chip select per word by each TX, does the kernel support that option?
  • [01:50:22] <mru> Crofton: you do want to enable some of the options -ffast-math turns on
  • [01:51:49] <alan_o> tholm: CS should go down (active) and back up again (idle) around the call for each spi message
  • [01:51:59] <tholm> yes alan_o
  • [01:53:33] <alan_o> tholm: not sure what you mean
  • [01:53:56] <alan_o> tholm: do you mean you need the CS to go down and back up again around each 4 bytes?
  • [01:53:57] <mru> Crofton: but you have to evaluate each one and make sure you're not doing something it breaks
  • [01:55:48] <Crofton> I am somewhat stumped by the compiler making NEON go away
  • [01:56:12] <mru> either someone is full of shit, or there's something you're not telling me
  • [01:57:14] <tholm> for example alan_o I need to send 0xD000 (16 bit) and I will receive a data, but CS to go up and back down with the second word
  • [01:57:43] <alan_o> tholm: can you make a separate message for each time you need CS to go down and back up?
  • [01:58:19] <alan_o> tholm: then call spi_sync() or whatever you're doing on both messages?
  • [01:58:55] <tholm> hold on alan_o I'll pastebin the code
  • [01:59:01] <Crofton> like I said, I am annoyed we do not have something easy to show this with
  • [01:59:02] <alan_o> tholm: I haven't seen a magic option to make it do what you're saying, but I haven't looked for it either.
  • [01:59:31] <mru> Crofton: if you can't come up with a simple demonstration, the cause is likely not simple either
  • [02:00:04] <Crofton> hang on
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  • [02:00:13] <Crofton> we are going to pastebin
  • [02:00:30] <Crofton> runexe, patebin the code and the compiler outpit
  • [02:00:38] <Crofton> no barfing at the intrinsic
  • [02:00:50] <Crofton> :)
  • [02:00:51] <tholm> http://pastebin.com/tBhxehCf
  • [02:01:07] <tholm> shut it Crofton :P
  • [02:03:06] <alan_o> tholm: ok, so make each word a separate ioc_transfer.
  • [02:03:11] <alan_o> tholm: that may not be enough though
  • [02:03:20] <alan_o> might have to have a separate ioctl for each
  • [02:03:32] <alan_o> tholm: I'm less familiar with the userspace interface.
  • [02:03:47] <runexe> Crofton, mru: http://pastebin.com/mrYAfTVm <- C code (two for loops, only the first should emit NEON instructions)
  • [02:04:39] <Crofton> can you pastebin the code built without O
  • [02:04:56] <Crofton> and the code with O and the compielr args
  • [02:05:01] <runexe> Working on it it, pastbin == teh slow (at least from these internets)
  • [02:05:09] <mru> runexe: what are you seeing, what do you expect to see, and what would you like to see?
  • [02:05:47] <mru> those v*_f32() intrinsics should either give the corresponding instruction or a compiler error
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  • [02:06:15] <runexe> Ok - with these compiler flags:
  • [02:06:18] <runexe> arm-oe-linux-gnueabi-gcc -S -march=armv7-a -mthumb-interwork -mfloat-abi=softfp -mfpu=neon -mcpu=cortex-a9 -mtune=cortex-a9 -O3 -ftree-vectorize -ffast-math --sysroot=/opt/oecore-x86_64/sysroots/ettus_e200-oe-linux-gnueabi neon_test.c
  • [02:06:23] <mru> for plain C code nothing is ever promised
  • [02:06:30] <runexe> I get: http://pastebin.com/ivpHC0u6
  • [02:06:46] <Crofton> mru, he is typing as fast as he can on his ridiculous heavy laptop
  • [02:06:47] <runexe> Which includes the vld, vmul's that I'm looking for
  • [02:07:43] <Crofton> he is cursing pastebin now
  • [02:07:56] <mru> oh, I can do that all day
  • [02:08:03] <mru> thankfully there are alternatives
  • [02:08:12] <tholm> ok alan_o I think imma try to send only one word
  • [02:08:35] <runexe> With: arm-oe-linux-gnueabi-gcc -S -march=armv7-a -mthumb-interwork -mfloat-abi=softfp -mfpu=neon -mcpu=cortex-a9 -mtune=cortex-a9 -O3 -ftree-vectorize --sysroot=/opt/oecore-x86_64/sysroots/ettus_e200-oe-linux-gnueabi neon_test.c
  • [02:08:45] <runexe> (i.e. everything else the same, but no -ffast-math)
  • [02:08:53] <tholm> actually that works but the performance is not that good
  • [02:08:58] <mru> that code is not what produced that assembly
  • [02:09:02] <Crofton> more swearing
  • [02:09:23] <alan_o> tholm: looks from the spidev driver code that it cycles the CS one time per ioctl() call. Check it with scope (is what ds2 would say).
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  • [02:09:23] <Crofton> hmm, that is an intersting theory ....
  • [02:09:28] <runexe> I get: http://pastebin.com/4BnyEJiX
  • [02:10:07] <mru> oh, I see what's going on here
  • [02:10:20] <mru> the result of the first loop is never used so it's dropped entirely
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  • [02:10:34] <mru> the second loop is partially auto-vectorised when -ffast-math is enabled
  • [02:10:37] <tholm> ok imma try, thx alan_o
  • [02:10:38] <mru> but not otherwise
  • [02:10:41] <Crofton> thanks
  • [02:10:56] <runexe> mru: Interesting
  • [02:10:57] <alan_o> tholm: no problem.
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  • [02:12:42] <Crofton> runexe, is now contempplating the fact he made an error
  • [02:13:13] <Crofton> more swearing
  • [02:13:27] <Crofton> :)
  • [02:13:57] <mru> gcc splits the loop in one part for a multiple of the vector size and a second part for any remaining tail
  • [02:14:10] <mru> and _lots_ of surrounding junk code
  • [02:14:26] <mru> the scalar one is also used if the pointers alias
  • [02:14:37] <mru> you should restrict-qualify your pointers
  • [02:14:49] <mru> assuming they do not alias
  • [02:17:36] <mru> and if the pointers are 8/16-byte aligned, tell gcc about this using __builtin_assume_aligned()
  • [02:18:17] <mru> and _never_ count on the auto-vectorisation doing what you want
  • [02:18:40] <runexe> mru: Ah! I was under the impression I could not use intrinsics and pass along alignment info - thanks very much!
  • [02:18:52] <mru> it's new in 4.7
  • [02:18:59] <runexe> sweet
  • [02:19:06] <mru> and intrinsics don't work before that anyway
  • [02:19:23] <mru> it might compile, but you don't want to see the result
  • [02:20:22] <mru> with 4.7 intrinsics can give pretty good code in simple cases
  • [02:20:24] <Crofton> thinnk training wheels
  • [02:20:54] <Crofton> the alternative is we take your brain and make milkshakes
  • [02:20:57] <mru> if you start running out of registers, things go downhill quickly
  • [02:21:18] <Crofton> most of the stuff we are looking at right now shouldn't run out of registers
  • [02:21:27] <runexe> Output is looking *much* better now :)
  • [02:21:41] <alan_o> mru: same when you start running out of tape
  • [02:21:48] <mru> alan_o: yep
  • [02:23:01] <mru> Crofton: runexe: just keep an eye on what the compiler spits out
  • [02:23:20] <mru> if it starts doing things you can't easily follow, something is probably weird
  • [02:23:40] <Crofton> yeah
  • [02:23:49] <mru> and if you need help, my off-shore account is always accepting donations
  • [02:24:19] <runexe> mru: Right :) - thanks very much!
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  • [02:56:02] <tholm> what does "!!" mean in C?
  • [02:58:51] <mru> what does ! mean in C?
  • [02:59:04] <tholm> nope !!
  • [02:59:12] <mru> answer the question
  • [02:59:21] <tholm> !!pointer->cs
  • [02:59:27] <mru> humour me
  • [02:59:31] <mru> what does ! mean?
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  • [02:59:59] <tholm> mru it's bed time, go
  • [03:00:06] <mru> I'm trying to help you
  • [03:00:31] <mru> so now tell me what does the expression "!x" mean?
  • [03:01:01] <tholm> negation
  • [03:01:16] <mru> specifically, logical negation
  • [03:01:28] <mru> so what does "!(!x)" mean?
  • [03:01:55] <tholm> yes and !!x its double logical negation
  • [03:02:06] <mru> exactly
  • [03:02:17] <tholm> damn im gud
  • [03:02:25] <tholm> merci mru
  • [03:02:42] <mru> now consider values for x of 0, 1, and 2
  • [03:03:22] <ds2> what about 3? ;)
  • [03:03:31] <tholm> whut?
  • [03:03:41] <mru> ds2: alright for 3, but not 4
  • [03:03:41] <tholm> x=0 its 1
  • [03:03:44] <mru> and certainly not 5
  • [03:04:04] <mru> tholm: is it?
  • [03:04:05] <ds2> no more fingers please!!!
  • [03:04:50] <tholm> if x=0; it's !(!x)=0
  • [03:05:19] <tholm> or am i wrong?
  • [03:05:24] <mru> that's correct
  • [03:06:51] <tholm> k_tmp->cs_change= !!u_tmp->cs_change no make sense
  • [03:07:00] <mru> think more
  • [03:07:10] <mru> do what I said
  • [03:07:22] <tholm> thinking...
  • [03:07:22] <mru> what is the value of !!x for x = 0, 1, 2?
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  • [03:26:46] <mranostay> what did i walk into?
  • [03:28:05] <mdp> it's not C# class
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  • [03:36:02] <mranostay> i thought this was Trolling 101
  • [03:36:05] <mranostay> wrong room
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  • [04:04:39] <alan_o> mru: so it made me wonder how many ! you can use.....
  • [04:04:45] <alan_o> mru: any idea?
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  • [04:07:29] <_av500_> !!!!!!!!!
  • [04:10:25] <alan_o> _av500_: well, for gcc, on my ubuntu box, it's somewhere between 32000 and 33000 !'s
  • [04:10:33] <alan_o> until an ICE :-D
  • [04:11:39] <alan_o> I wonder if it's exactly 32768....
  • [04:13:04] <alan_o> hmm, not exactly... probably has to do with the number of tokens total.
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  • [04:22:34] <alan_o> actually, it's pretty nasty... not the same number every time 32700 seems to compile every time.
  • [04:23:15] <alan_o> it dies sometimes shortly above that
  • [04:23:25] * alan_o needs a life
  • [04:24:41] <alan_o> actually, the limit seems per-expression
  • [04:25:24] * alan_o is going to try to get code with double-bitwise-negation into the kernel.
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  • [07:39:47] <KotH> greetings earthlings, i come in peace
  • [07:40:13] * Ceriand|desktop (~Ceriand@unaffiliated/ceriand) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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  • [07:57:06] <mranostay> KotH: allah akbar to you as well
  • [07:57:38] * dm8tbr demands an earthshattering kaboom! there was supposed to be a kaboom!
  • [07:58:42] <mranostay> dm8tbr: i'm sorry i could buy a Q-36 on short notice
  • [07:58:58] <mranostay> would a waistband of firecrackers do?
  • [08:02:53] <dm8tbr> :??
  • [08:03:04] <panto> howdy
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  • [08:13:21] <mranostay> i swear this will be fun to explain to future employers why i'm on the do not fly list... "ah yeah i was trolling in irc...what is trolling...?..." :)
  • [08:14:41] <koen> mranostay: it's a linkedin skill, no?
  • [08:14:47] * koen is waiting for endorsements
  • [08:15:09] <thurbad> more like a gamification of real life
  • [08:15:22] <panto> "Does mranostay know about 'Trolling'?"
  • [08:15:39] <mranostay> tomorrow i will be searching for Crofton's Tizen sticker on Castro
  • [08:15:47] <mranostay> MV not SF for the record
  • [08:15:50] <mranostay> :)
  • [08:18:08] <KotH> mranostay: lol
  • [08:18:29] <KotH> mranostay: if you get onto the no fly list for trolling on irc, then your security system is totally fucke
  • [08:18:41] <KotH> mranostay: oh..wait.. your security system IS totally fucked
  • [08:18:52] <KotH> :-)
  • [08:18:58] <koen> is it omap based?
  • [08:19:13] <panto> walking dead based
  • [08:19:54] * jsabeaudry (~jsabeaudr@242.161.18.64.static.oricom.ca) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  • [08:21:43] <mranostay> omap is totally fucked and totally dead
  • [08:22:40] * kiilo (~kiilo@46-126-76-28.dynamic.hispeed.ch) has joined #beagle
  • [08:22:46] <woglinde> gm
  • [08:24:08] <KotH> moin woglinde
  • [08:24:26] <woglinde> the walking dead
  • [08:24:28] <woglinde> yes
  • [08:25:07] * florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) has joined #beagle
  • [08:26:16] <dm8tbr> koen: ooh, you actually added that skill! av500 still didn't... I tried to manually add an 'trolling' endorsement to him, but that didn't work.
  • [08:27:06] <mranostay> dm8tbr: i did endorse me ***** :)
  • [08:30:12] <dm8tbr> soon trolling will be trending on linkedin!
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  • [08:59:21] <nextime> hello. I'm having a lot of sd card reliabiity issues in a lot of beagleboard-xm after few months and or a couple of years
  • [09:00:08] <nextime> is there any cape expansion and/or another way (a specific sd card brand? ) that can make the beagleboard-xm more reliable as storage other than using an external usb disk?
  • [09:02:51] <mranostay> dm8tbr: i find this endorsement stuff silly
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  • [09:13:10] <KotH> mranostay: linkedin is silly
  • [09:13:24] <KotH> mranostay: but if you take it seriously, then the endorsment is the next logical step
  • [09:13:32] * dm8tbr endorses KotH for silly-walks
  • [09:13:37] * kiilo (~kiilo@46-126-76-28.dynamic.hispeed.ch) has joined #beagle
  • [09:13:45] <KotH> mranostay: otherwise, anyone can write anything in there, and you have no idea whether it's true or not
  • [09:14:21] <KotH> mranostay: on the other hand, we are talking about the internets, where men are real men, women are also men, and children are fbi agents
  • [09:17:57] * kiilo (~kiilo@46-126-76-28.dynamic.hispeed.ch) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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  • [09:53:07] * mthalmei_away is now known as mthalmei
  • [09:56:52] * mthalmei is now known as mthalmei_away
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  • [10:07:24] <av500> KotH: men are dogs
  • [10:12:59] * koen (~koen@ip4da2a5ae.direct-adsl.nl) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  • [10:13:46] * koen (~koen@ip4da2a5ae.direct-adsl.nl) has joined #beagle
  • [10:17:08] <panto> av500, women are cats?
  • [10:18:02] <KotH> children are mice?
  • [10:21:24] <panto> dogs are llamas?
  • [10:22:18] <av500> KotH: wrt the interwebs
  • [10:22:32] <av500> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Internet,_nobody_knows_you're_a_dog
  • [10:25:22] <koen> jkridner: ping about bonescript
  • [10:26:12] <av500> bonescript cannot pings you?
  • [10:31:54] * tema (~tema@92-100-174-78.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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  • [10:38:08] <koen> it probably can
  • [10:43:13] * iPhoneMRZ (~iphonemrz@2.198.183.159) Quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi)
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  • [10:50:48] <av500> discuss: http://dx.com/p/prime-100w-7000lm-led-emitter-metal-plate-warm-white-42807
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  • [11:19:31] <koen> av500: wtf?
  • [11:20:03] <av500> a night light
  • [11:20:24] <av500> putting that on my bike
  • [11:20:46] * buq2 (~buq2@dsl-trebrasgw2-fe98de00-17.dhcp.inet.fi) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  • [11:23:07] <KotH> burning your way trough the forest?
  • [11:23:33] <av500> leaving molten steel behind my on the streets
  • [11:23:36] <koen> you have a 36v lead battery on your bike?
  • [11:23:46] <av500> not yet
  • [11:24:02] <KotH> you dont need 36v batteries
  • [11:24:23] <av500> that too
  • [11:28:02] * scubasonar_ (~Matt@99-108-165-58.lightspeed.mtryca.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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  • [11:31:50] <XorA|gone> whoa, thats 7x as bright as my bike light :-D
  • [11:34:02] <av500> :)
  • [11:34:16] * scubasonar (~Matt@99-108-165-58.lightspeed.mtryca.sbcglobal.net) has joined #beagle
  • [11:35:51] * KotH hates the guys with 30W+ helmet lamps
  • [11:36:06] <KotH> after they've passed you, you're blind for a couple of seconds
  • [11:36:23] <KotH> one day, i'll take a 100W flash light with me and blind those guys as well
  • [11:38:54] <av500> KotH: then they will bring 1000W to counteract
  • [11:38:58] <av500> it will never end
  • [11:39:04] <av500> in the end, everybody loses
  • [11:39:24] <KotH> nope
  • [11:39:35] * guanucoluis (~luis@201.212.40.67) has joined #beagleboard
  • [11:39:43] <KotH> if enough people walk with 1000W lamps, the whole path will be well light
  • [11:39:54] <KotH> lit?
  • [11:41:03] <av500> lit
  • [11:41:21] <av500> yes, but people will trip over extension cords and die
  • [11:41:28] <av500> collateral damage...
  • [11:48:34] * tasslehoff (~tasslehof@147.84-49-231.nextgentel.com) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7)
  • [11:50:11] <KotH> i dont mind stupid people dying
  • [11:50:21] <KotH> would clean up the gene pool
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  • [13:18:12] <ant_work> koen: hi there! About new-Narcissus, still interested in getting config for the old Zauruses?
  • [13:21:44] <av500> ha, zaurus
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  • [13:30:44] <koen> ant_work: yes
  • [13:33:53] <dm8tbr> uuuh, a troll request on linked in :D
  • [13:34:14] <prpplague> dm8tbr: hehe
  • [13:34:34] <dm8tbr> mru: what, can't endorse you for trolling? ;(
  • [13:34:43] * dv__ (~quassel@chello080108009040.14.11.vie.surfer.at) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  • [13:34:56] <prpplague> "This is not a standardized skill or area of expertise. Search below for skills you have or are interested in."
  • [13:35:10] <mru> so how did Crofton manage it?
  • [13:35:16] <dm8tbr> and mranostay
  • [13:35:50] <av500> the trolled linkedin
  • [13:35:52] <av500> they
  • [13:35:59] * mru tries to add it manually
  • [13:36:18] <mru> it shows on the list for me now
  • [13:36:26] * challinan (~challinan@173-10-226-189-BusName-WestFlorida.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) has joined #beagle
  • [13:36:58] <av500> endorsed
  • [13:37:17] <dm8tbr> +1
  • [13:37:32] * LetoThe2nd (~jd@unaffiliated/letothe2nd) has joined #beagle
  • [13:37:52] <av500> dm8tbr: excel?
  • [13:37:53] <av500> lol
  • [13:38:00] <av500> can I put paint.exe?
  • [13:38:41] * dv_ (~quassel@chello080108009040.14.11.vie.surfer.at) has joined #beagle
  • [13:38:55] <av500> Does M&#xe5;ns have these skills or expertise?
  • [13:39:03] <av500> hmm
  • [13:39:10] * LetoThe2nd (~jd@unaffiliated/letothe2nd) Quit (Client Quit)
  • [13:39:11] <av500> I wont endorse him for unicode
  • [13:39:20] * LetoThe2nd (~jd@unaffiliated/letothe2nd) has joined #beagle
  • [13:39:24] <prpplague> hehe
  • [13:39:36] <XorA|gone> yo prpplague
  • [13:39:40] <mru> what's the unicode codepoint for a troll?
  • [13:39:43] <mru> they have snowman...
  • [13:40:14] <prpplague> XorA|gone: ho ho and a cup of coffee
  • [13:40:19] * davest (~Adium@134.134.139.76) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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  • [13:41:36] <mru> av500: clearcase? surely you are trolling...
  • [13:42:31] <prpplague> hehe
  • [13:42:47] <av500> mru: clearcase?
  • [13:42:48] * LetoThe2nd (~jd@unaffiliated/letothe2nd) Quit (Client Quit)
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  • [13:43:08] <XorA|gone> prpplague: I prefer tea normally :-D
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  • [13:43:30] <prpplague> XorA|gone: with rum?
  • [13:43:42] <av500> rum with tea flavor
  • [13:43:47] <XorA|gone> prpplague: makes a good cure for the cold :-D
  • [13:43:58] <prpplague> hehe
  • [13:44:00] * davest (~Adium@134.134.139.76) has joined #beagle
  • [13:44:08] * prpplague needs to try that as he has a cold now
  • [13:44:31] <prpplague> too much stress and crazy texas weather leads to a fall cold
  • [13:44:36] * kiilo (~kiilo@46-126-76-28.dynamic.hispeed.ch) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  • [13:45:00] <mru> av500: you know what I'm talking about
  • [13:45:55] * nashpa (~nashpa@dliviu.plus.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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  • [13:48:58] <prpplague> <sarc> who ever thought of this is a freakin genius! http://hackaday.com/2012/11/27/injecting-power-into-a-wifi-dongle-for-the-raspberry-pi/ </sarc>
  • [13:49:36] <XorA|gone> prpplague: my fave for a cold is couple of table spoons of lemon, table spoon of honey, couple ounces spiced rum, boiling water
  • [13:49:48] <XorA|gone> prpplague: that will blow the sinuses open
  • [13:49:59] <XorA|gone> lemon juice that is
  • [13:50:19] <prpplague> XorA|gone: sounds like what i drink before the pandaboard team meetings on tuesdays....
  • [13:50:39] <mru> prpplague: I wonder if that thing is reverse-powering the rpi too
  • [13:50:59] <mru> XorA|gone: I prefer not getting the cold in the first place
  • [13:51:29] <prpplague> mru: i didn't look at it too closely, but i didn't see any mention of removing the connection of the +5v rail
  • [13:51:44] <mru> exactly
  • [13:52:13] <koen> XorA|gone: pretty close to a rum punch then
  • [13:53:21] <XorA|gone> koen: its the recipe for actual Grog :-)
  • [13:53:30] <XorA|gone> koen: but made with hot water
  • [13:53:39] * XorA|gone is now known as XorA
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  • [14:00:58] <LetoThe2nd> prpplague: back to life?
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  • [14:37:39] <jkridner> gm all
  • [14:37:57] <jkridner> koen: yt? I'd like to chat about the best way to bundle the weatherstation demo.
  • [14:39:33] <koen> jkridner: that's why I pinged you earlier :)
  • [14:39:42] <jkridner> I missed the ping.
  • [14:40:17] <jkridner> It isn't quite becoming clear to me where bone101 ends and other examples begin...
  • [14:40:34] <jkridner> I think there is a certain service element that should be available from bonescript all of the time.
  • [14:41:05] <jkridner> I think there is a way to create examples that are easier to learn and experiment within the browser.
  • [14:41:33] <jkridner> I added readTextFile and writeTextFile to the browser today and it makes the browser side code easier to write...
  • [14:41:52] <jkridner> now, there is very little reason to run things on the server side if you can use client.js
  • [14:42:04] <jkridner> but, client.js isn't bundled well at all...
  • [14:42:08] <jkridner> it is wrapped up on bone101.
  • [14:42:49] <jkridner> what I'm working towards is where you can use something like http://beagleboard.org/static/bonescript/bone101/demo_weatherstation.html and simply need to specify where your local board is.
  • [14:43:04] <jkridner> or have it auto-discover if that is possible.
  • [14:43:24] <jkridner> right now, client.js has a bug in the path to the scripts, so you won't see any of the .js files load.
  • [14:43:33] <jkridner> but it works fine on Beagle.
  • [14:43:57] <jkridner> koen: so, are you busy now and were only available earlier?
  • [14:44:24] <koen> short answer: yes
  • [14:44:46] <koen> the longer answer involves running out of space on multiple machines and crashing my main workstation a few minutes ago
  • [14:44:48] <jkridner> also, there is some width adjusting code in the weatherstation demo that I don't quite follow.
  • [14:45:03] <jkridner> k.
  • [14:45:16] <panto> hi jkridner
  • [14:45:21] <jkridner> hi panto
  • [14:45:53] <koen> jkridner: it tries to keep all widgets in the view, but it's butt ugly and flaky code
  • [14:46:24] * florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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  • [14:47:37] <jkridner> what confused me about it was looking at the height to determine the width.
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  • [14:48:58] <jkridner> I think you left a multiplication out of your comparison
  • [14:49:56] * GPSFan (~kenm@64.92.145.112) has joined #beagle
  • [14:50:28] <jkridner> where should the lux meter go? to the right?
  • [14:50:52] * scrp3l (~scrp3l@ratpack.com.ar) has joined #beagle
  • [14:52:53] <koen> yeag
  • [14:52:59] <koen> yeah*
  • [14:53:11] <jkridner> may I fix and send a patch?
  • [14:53:30] <koen> sure
  • [14:53:41] <mdp> patches are unwelcome
  • [14:54:14] <mdp> koen, thx for sharing the rt pwr seq thread, btw ;)
  • [14:54:48] <koen> mdp: can DT help there?
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  • [15:03:16] <mru> alan_o: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20536201
  • [15:03:24] <mru> "Not a single murder, shooting, stabbing or other incident of violent crime was reported for a whole day."
  • [15:03:42] <emeb_mac> \o/
  • [15:03:49] <mru> in NYC
  • [15:04:41] <emeb_mac> wonders never cease.
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  • [15:04:47] <mdp> sounds like a boring place
  • [15:05:06] <emeb_mac> "it won't last" (in the manner of Marvin)
  • [15:08:03] <alan_o> mru: nice!
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  • [15:23:50] <jkridner> koen: https://github.com/jadonk/bonescript/commit/2595d1b932ede0edb5cbd6e46fb3c9a87c69ca23
  • [15:23:54] <jkridner> I think this resizing works well...
  • [15:24:07] <jkridner> cuts the header off on short screens
  • [15:24:24] <jkridner> too difficult to try to figure out the header height.
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  • [18:04:20] <mranostay> hey friends, trolls and whatever else
  • [18:04:32] <mru> yo mranostay
  • [18:06:27] <prpplague> mranostay: and unemployed omap people
  • [18:06:32] <djlewis> hey hey mranostay:
  • [18:07:33] * alan_o (~alan@c-68-62-240-236.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  • [18:08:17] <mranostay> so all of CA OMAP peoplez i've heard
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  • [18:09:36] <mru> prpplague: need a job? you can take mine...
  • [18:09:45] <Crofton> KotH, http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/switzerland/9708726/Zurich-to-open-drive-in-sex-boxes.html
  • [18:09:57] <mranostay> i am not clicking that
  • [18:10:08] <prpplague> mru: and do what with it?
  • [18:10:15] <jkridner> koen: ping
  • [18:10:21] <koen> pong
  • [18:10:25] <mranostay> ping
  • [18:10:32] <djlewis> pong
  • [18:10:38] <mru> ping
  • [18:10:41] <av500> mranostay: I clikced it for you
  • [18:10:51] <av500> Zurich council has approved a plan to build the boxes, which will, it hopes, provide a discreet location for prostitutes and their clients to conduct business when they open in August next year.
  • [18:11:14] <mranostay> er that is legal in Switzerland?
  • [18:11:28] <mru> mranostay: most things are legal in switzerland
  • [18:11:40] * mranostay books tickets
  • [18:11:49] * TD-Linux (~thomas@about/essy/indecisive/TD-Linux) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  • [18:12:10] * mranostay couchsurfs at KotH's
  • [18:12:19] <mru> but even where illegal, prostitution still exists
  • [18:12:52] <mranostay> you mean outlawing something doesn't stop people from doing it?
  • [18:12:52] <mru> and I can see why the authorities would want to keep it off the streets
  • [18:13:54] <mranostay> damn authorities always getting in the way of fun
  • [18:14:15] <mru> sweden has an unusual take on it: _buying_ sex is illegal there
  • [18:14:35] <mru> of course nobody has ever been convicted
  • [18:15:09] <mranostay> sex is an object?
  • [18:15:26] <mru> it could be seen as a service
  • [18:15:42] <dm8tbr> SAAS? or just SAS? ;)
  • [18:16:18] <ka6sox> SAAS
  • [18:16:27] <mru> now even if you were to be caught with your pants down, there's nothing to worry about
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  • [18:16:35] <KotH> Crofton: see, we're more modern than any other country :)
  • [18:16:36] <mru> you just say the money wasn't for the sex
  • [18:16:58] <mru> "we had sex, then I gave her some money as a gift"
  • [18:17:32] * kaio (~kaio@fedora/kaio) Quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
  • [18:18:01] <mranostay> dating is the exact opposite
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  • [18:18:25] <koen> mranostay: you don't have sex and you don't give money?
  • [18:18:53] <mru> that's not the logical opposite
  • [18:19:27] <KotH> the world is getting more insane by the day... my new shaver can make coffee, but comes only with a leaflet. you have to search (non-trivial) and download a 30 pages manual.
  • [18:20:02] <mru> it's not obvious how to use it?
  • [18:20:04] <KotH> koen: you dont have sex, but give money
  • [18:20:25] <KotH> mru: the obvious use is obvious, but cleaning, maintenance and such isnt
  • [18:20:34] <KotH> mru: especialy as it comes with a complete cleaning unit
  • [18:20:35] <hitlin37> mru: you mean this? http://www.thelocal.se/44330/20121109/
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  • [18:20:55] <KotH> unfortunately, nobody thought that one might need a charger that is actually smaller than the shaver itself
  • [18:21:35] <mru> what monster have you bought?
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  • [18:22:05] <KotH> Philips SensoTouch 3D RQ1250
  • [18:22:13] <KotH> (yes, there is a 3D in it's name!)
  • [18:23:12] <KotH> it even has a travel bag, which i probably will never use, because it's a lot larger than the shaver
  • [18:23:31] <mranostay> grrrr buildsystem deadlock
  • [18:23:33] <KotH> ...like twice as large
  • [18:23:56] <KotH> mranostay: about couch surfing.. you can do that, but i would demand something in exchange
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  • [18:26:09] <mranostay> er do i even want to know?
  • [18:26:18] <KotH> probably not
  • [18:28:15] <mranostay> KotH: would a police report be involved?
  • [18:28:34] <mru> only if you get caught
  • [18:29:26] <KotH> as mru said
  • [18:30:34] <mranostay> bank heist?
  • [18:30:56] <av500> mranostay: easy, just buy him chocolate
  • [18:31:07] <av500> which by his standards means, its cheaper to get a hotel
  • [18:31:44] <mru> not a hotel room, a hotel
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  • [18:31:57] <mranostay> maybe a hostel
  • [18:32:06] <mru> too hostile
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  • [18:39:39] <KotH> mranostay: you wont be able to afford a hostel here in .ch
  • [18:39:55] <KotH> unless you've been a lifelong member of the hostel association
  • [18:42:13] <mranostay> affording anything Switzerland seems expensive
  • [18:43:31] <KotH> juup, even dying is quite expensive
  • [18:44:05] <mru> doesn't that become somebody else's problem?
  • [18:44:25] <mranostay> i think it does
  • [18:44:34] <KotH> well, they charge you, even if you are dead
  • [18:44:57] <mranostay> KotH: popping up the cost of living calculator it is 25% more expensive in Zurich than SF
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  • [18:45:06] <mru> and then what, sell your body on ebay?
  • [18:45:07] <KotH> so, if you dont have enough money, they look for some guy to cover for you, if there isnt, you'll be dumped into a hole
  • [18:45:21] <mranostay> hell i'd go for the hole
  • [18:45:27] <mru> a hellhole?
  • [18:45:34] <mru> KotH: and if you do pay?
  • [18:45:36] <KotH> that's turkmenistan
  • [18:45:45] <KotH> mru: burial according to your believes
  • [18:45:57] <KotH> mru: for you, that'd probably mean dumping in a hole ;)
  • [18:46:06] <mru> see
  • [18:46:59] <KotH> well, you dont believe in any imaginary friend who is going to save your imortal soul
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  • [18:48:14] <mranostay> my religous beliefs require me to be shot into space
  • [18:48:48] <mru> mine require me to be transmuted to solid gold and placed on public display in the main square of the city
  • [18:48:58] <KotH> then you'll be cremated, compressed and made into a 1cm^2 pellet.... which will then be shot into space
  • [18:49:10] <mru> with a railgun? cooool!
  • [18:49:31] * mranostay notes this channel is extra random today
  • [18:49:45] <KotH> this is switzerland! we honor the believes of everyone.. and we have the weapon systems to do it too!
  • [18:50:13] <dm8tbr> we're preparing for friday
  • [18:50:45] <dm8tbr> .oO(friday, friday, we shoot your remains into space on friiiiidaaay)
  • [18:51:46] * _roger_ (~a0740758@nat/ti/x-gtuhyclinkoqkkpt) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  • [18:52:08] <mranostay> KotH: they let you have an assualt weapon? :P
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  • [18:52:31] <dm8tbr> mranostay: you missed that discussion? (hint: yes)
  • [18:53:05] <KotH> mranostay: full automatic SIG 550, military issue
  • [18:53:18] <mranostay> with those 20 rounds in a seal tin that better have damn good reason to open? :)
  • [18:53:27] <mranostay> *sealed
  • [18:53:33] <KotH> mranostay: and if i wish i can keep it after my service, for a mere 200 bucks
  • [18:53:51] <KotH> mranostay: the tin contained 50 rounds, but we had to give it back a couple of years ago
  • [18:54:09] <KotH> mranostay: but getting ammo is not a problem: just walk into the next weapons store and buy some
  • [18:54:09] * jluisn (~quassel@187.115.172.24) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  • [18:54:10] <mranostay> are you techically not allowed to keep ammo at home?
  • [18:54:23] <mranostay> i know people do and it isn't really enforced
  • [18:54:24] <KotH> i am allowed
  • [18:54:43] <KotH> heck, friend of mine had an mg at home, complete with some belts
  • [18:55:01] <KotH> he had to give it back, though :)
  • [18:55:15] <mru> mranostay: are you thinking of guns licensed for use only on a firing range?
  • [18:55:16] <mranostay> i should have been born in Switzerland :P
  • [18:55:28] <mranostay> mru: well not like the UK
  • [18:55:36] <mru> mranostay: you can still be reborn in switzerland
  • [18:55:57] <mru> what like the uk?
  • [18:55:58] <mranostay> can i forge a birth cert?
  • [18:56:06] <KotH> well, the laws in .ch are getting more strict
  • [18:56:17] <KotH> i'm not allowed anymore to just buy a weapon of the street
  • [18:56:19] <mru> mranostay: never heard religious nutters talk about being reborn?
  • [18:56:24] <KotH> i have to get a license first
  • [18:56:57] <KotH> mranostay: how old are you?
  • [18:57:08] <mru> KotH: he's not
  • [18:57:31] <KotH> well, if he is below 18, he has a chance to enter the swiss army still
  • [18:57:44] * buq2 (~buq2@dsl-trebrasgw2-fe98de00-17.dhcp.inet.fi) has joined #beagle
  • [18:57:50] <KotH> move to switzerland, live at one place for 5 years, apply for citizenship, enter army
  • [18:58:01] <mru> 18 years?
  • [18:58:07] <KotH> actually, the last step is automatic if you are below 23
  • [18:58:26] <KotH> mru: juup
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  • [18:58:34] <KotH> mru: because 18 + 5 = 23
  • [18:58:35] <mru> solar years or troll years?
  • [18:58:45] <KotH> hmm.. swiss chocolate years, i guess
  • [18:58:50] <mranostay> 26 so no dice
  • [18:59:07] <KotH> mranostay: there is still one way: study medicine
  • [18:59:11] <mru> so two mranostay would be 54 years
  • [18:59:16] <KotH> mranostay: doctors are automatically drafted
  • [18:59:23] <mranostay> heh
  • [18:59:27] <KotH> mranostay: even after they've reached age
  • [18:59:38] <mranostay> lucky them..
  • [18:59:40] <KotH> there are not enough military doctors
  • [18:59:48] <KotH> lucky? everyone hates it ^^'
  • [18:59:55] <mranostay> </sarcasm>
  • [19:00:31] <KotH> i know of one who got drafted at the age of 35
  • [19:00:31] <mranostay> i guess marrying a swiss national is an unlikely option :)
  • [19:00:59] <mru> mranostay: I suppose they have girls there
  • [19:01:13] <mru> or do you have a gender preference?
  • [19:01:14] <KotH> everyone who wen to him was like "oh.. you have this horrible cough... this is serious, you cannot do service with such an illness, we have to send you home"
  • [19:01:31] <KotH> and because he was the doctor, nobody could say anything :)
  • [19:02:05] <mru> fire him for malpractice?
  • [19:02:25] <KotH> the military cannot fire anyone
  • [19:02:30] <KotH> at least not in .ch
  • [19:02:43] <mru> what do they do with all the guns then?
  • [19:02:46] <KotH> you can be send to jail, but there is no early discharge
  • [19:03:10] <mru> so send him to jail then
  • [19:03:30] <KotH> heck, we had one who was smuggling weapons (up to full automatic gateling guns). they took his rifle and bayonet, but he had to stay in the army until he finished his days
  • [19:04:40] <mru> cleaning toilets?
  • [19:04:51] <KotH> no, driving trucks
  • [19:04:58] <mranostay> KotH: at the lowest rank possible?
  • [19:05:17] <mru> trucks loaded with guns?
  • [19:05:24] <KotH> mranostay: no, corporal
  • [19:05:37] <KotH> mranostay: or sergant in your terms, iirc
  • [19:05:40] <mranostay> er please tell me he got jail time
  • [19:05:54] <KotH> mru: guns, people, radio, food, you name it
  • [19:06:04] <KotH> mranostay: he didnt.. not enough evidence
  • [19:06:53] * _roger_ (~a0740758@nat/ti/x-xwnpkaecvmllurnw) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  • [19:06:54] <mranostay> KotH: how about alcohol?
  • [19:07:05] <KotH> mranostay: and unlike some weird country on the other side of the big pond, we do not shoot people before asking, and dont jail anyone w/o proper evidence
  • [19:07:13] <KotH> what about it?
  • [19:07:22] <mranostay> you guys got it?
  • [19:07:28] <KotH> ofc
  • [19:07:30] <KotH> why shouldnt we?
  • [19:07:38] <mranostay> who knows just checking :P
  • [19:07:40] <KotH> this is not a muslim country... yet
  • [19:07:44] <mru> I don't know of any place on earth you can't get alcohol
  • [19:07:57] <mru> even muslim countries have alcohol
  • [19:08:05] <KotH> low alcoholic stuff (beer, wine,..) is free from 16 on, strong stuff from 18
  • [19:08:16] * kiilo (~kiilo@46-126-76-28.dynamic.hispeed.ch) has joined #beagle
  • [19:08:16] <mru> free booze?
  • [19:08:22] <mranostay> damn
  • [19:08:26] <KotH> actually, we could do that...
  • [19:08:30] <mranostay> this gets better and better
  • [19:08:44] <KotH> for some weird reason, nobody ever tried to pass a "free booze for everyone" law yet
  • [19:09:15] * kaio (~kaio@fedora/kaio) Quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
  • [19:09:23] <KotH> but we are currently discussing a guaranteed minimum wage for everyone,
  • [19:09:34] <KotH> though i doubt it'll pass
  • [19:09:42] <KotH> nobody knows how to finance that
  • [19:09:50] * kaio (~kaio@fedora/kaio) has joined #beagle
  • [19:09:50] <mru> print money!
  • [19:09:58] <mranostay> so how much you have to make to live comfortable in .ch?
  • [19:10:09] <KotH> mranostay: depends on where you live
  • [19:10:23] <KotH> mranostay: you can survive from 2000chf upwards
  • [19:10:29] <mru> 200k chf per year should do it
  • [19:10:31] <KotH> mranostay: confortable starts from 3000
  • [19:10:54] <mranostay> 3000chf a month?
  • [19:11:02] <KotH> mranostay: an EE earns around 6k-10k, software 8-20k
  • [19:11:06] <KotH> yes
  • [19:11:07] <KotH> netto
  • [19:11:15] <mru> 3k chf per month ain't much
  • [19:11:22] <KotH> it isnt
  • [19:11:38] <KotH> but you get easily buy with it, if you dont need a 100m^2 flat
  • [19:11:52] <KotH> and dont live in downtown z?rich or geneva
  • [19:13:19] <mranostay> KotH: after taxes?
  • [19:14:05] <KotH> before
  • [19:14:23] <KotH> taxes are roughly 10%, less when you are below 5k, more when you are above
  • [19:15:23] * TD-Linux (~thomas@about/essy/indecisive/TD-Linux) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
  • [19:15:23] <KotH> if you earn 100k/year, brutto, single, no children, you pay somewhere in the region of 8-10k taxes a year
  • [19:17:08] <KotH> as an engineer, i think .ch is one of the better places in europe, to live and work...
  • [19:17:20] <mru> who's hiring?
  • [19:17:33] <KotH> you dont earn as much as in the uk, but still more than in most other places, taxes are quite low and you have the better weather than in london
  • [19:17:48] <KotH> a lot of companies are hiring
  • [19:18:04] <KotH> there is always a demand for software and ee engineers
  • [19:18:09] <mru> uhm, nobody I know in the uk is making the kind of money you describe
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  • [19:18:18] <KotH> mru: huh?
  • [19:18:32] <KotH> mru: i have a few friends who went to the uk, because they got better money there
  • [19:18:52] <KotH> mru: oh.. the values i gave are all in chf, not gpb
  • [19:18:59] <KotH> mru: factor 2.5 iirc
  • [19:19:17] <mru> that 20k you mentioned, was that per month?
  • [19:19:22] <bwlang> i
  • [19:19:24] <KotH> yes
  • [19:19:53] <mru> that's about 160k gbp per year
  • [19:19:55] <KotH> in software, you can get that relatively easy, if you have a university degree or other special qualfications that a company needs
  • [19:20:08] <mru> you'll never get that as an engineer
  • [19:20:16] <KotH> o_0
  • [19:20:38] <mru> not in the companies I've heard or seen any figures from at least
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  • [19:20:48] <mru> if you rise to director level, sure
  • [19:20:56] <bwlang> whups - sorry - i'm looking at the beagle bone to build something that will present a filesystem image as a mass storage device . I think that usb otg port will work - right? also - is there any way to add a second ethernet interfaces? usb- ethernet adapter?
  • [19:21:10] <KotH> average sallary for a 35y old ee who doesnt have managment functions is somewhere around 120k/y (brutto)... software is 10-30% higher
  • [19:21:12] <mru> maybe working for a bank you'd get something like that
  • [19:21:38] <KotH> bwlang: shhuuu... we are discussing money here!
  • [19:21:39] <KotH> ;)
  • [19:21:53] <mranostay> of course the silly no degree thing makes worker visa about impossible for me ... :)
  • [19:22:09] <KotH> mranostay: why dont you have a degree? you're not dumb are you?
  • [19:22:17] <mru> exactly
  • [19:22:35] <KotH> mru: not everyone is an mru
  • [19:22:51] <mranostay> KotH: long story :)
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  • [19:24:32] <KotH> mru: as a refernece: friend of mine, 25, only apprenticeship as an glorified electrician, no higher education. self learned linux and windows skills, earned something in the region of 120/y(brutto)
  • [19:24:57] <KotH> mru: but i must admit that he was exceptionally good, and often worked more than 60h a week because his moronic coworkers messed up
  • [19:25:24] <KotH> and he is probably a rare exception for someone that young earning this much
  • [19:25:59] <mru> well, either I'm totally misinformed or severely underpaid
  • [19:26:06] <mru> possibly both
  • [19:26:08] <KotH> probably both :)
  • [19:26:35] <KotH> mru: remember when i was in london?
  • [19:26:41] <KotH> mru: have you met isabella?
  • [19:26:46] <KotH> mru: i think you have?
  • [19:26:54] <mru> we met some friends of yours
  • [19:27:00] <mru> don't remember the names
  • [19:27:05] <KotH> mru: she earned more than i did back then, quite substantially
  • [19:27:12] <KotH> yes, then you've met her
  • [19:27:21] * KotH doesnt have many friends in the uk
  • [19:27:28] * flo_lap is now known as florian
  • [19:27:39] <KotH> but she was working as java programmer
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  • [19:31:32] <mranostay> KotH: 125k at 25? nice
  • [19:31:56] <KotH> mranostay: dont think you can get that
  • [19:32:05] <KotH> mranostay: you're neither good enough, nor lucky enough
  • [19:32:21] <mranostay> ouch :)
  • [19:32:33] <KotH> as i said, he was good in what he was doing
  • [19:32:47] <mru> oh, luck is involved?
  • [19:32:53] <mranostay> to a degree
  • [19:32:59] <mru> well, I have none of that
  • [19:33:24] <mru> if something is down to chance, it _always_ goes against me
  • [19:33:24] <KotH> he was able to guide me trough the menues of japanese win98 on the phone, while not having seen a win98 box for years
  • [19:33:51] <KotH> chance is not something you have, chance is something you create
  • [19:33:52] * ds2 tosses mru horseshoes, four leaf clovers, and rabbits feet
  • [19:34:23] <mru> what am I supposed to do with those, make a stew?
  • [19:35:26] <mranostay> ds2: hey those horsehoes hurt!
  • [19:35:32] <mranostay> *horseshoes
  • [19:35:46] <KotH> mranostay: never stay in the line of fire! never!
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  • [20:18:37] <alan_o> ds2: So I've been doing that procedure you gave me for startup of the bone (holding reset down, plugging in, starting minicom (repeatedly until it starts up), and letting go of reset once minicom is up
  • [20:18:50] <alan_o> ds2: so out of curiosity, how long does it take for minicom to be able to open the port?
  • [20:19:06] <alan_o> ds2: it's arbitrary on mine, sometimes short and sometimes up to 20 seconds.
  • [20:19:19] <alan_o> trying to figure whether my FTDI is a bit flaky or whether that's normal
  • [20:19:42] <mru> in my experience it's normal for ftdi to be flaky
  • [20:19:55] <alan_o> mru: 20 seconds flaky?
  • [20:20:09] <mru> bring down the usb port flaky
  • [20:21:44] <KotH> alan_o: hint: use picocom
  • [20:21:52] <KotH> alan_o: much better suited for this kind of stuff
  • [20:22:19] <alan_o> KotH: I'll give it a try. I used screen for a while. keep coming back to minicom, even with its bugs
  • [20:22:33] <KotH> alan_o: and tail -f /var/log/kern.log will tell you when the ftdi is enumerated
  • [20:22:53] <alan_o> KotH: yeah, that's the thing, it _says_ its enumerated, but I can't open it
  • [20:23:05] <Russ> mranostay, skill endorsed
  • [20:23:06] <alan_o> minicom: cannot open /dev/bone_console: Device or resource busy
  • [20:23:15] <KotH> alan_o: minicom is thought for modem lines where you dial into a mailbox.. not for simple tty work
  • [20:23:31] <alan_o> KotH: yeah, I turn all that modem stuff off
  • [20:23:46] <alan_o> KotH: but I will try out picocom
  • [20:23:48] <mru> minicom segfaulted on some iconv thing one time too many
  • [20:23:51] <mru> not touching it again
  • [20:24:11] <KotH> why does minicom need iconv?
  • [20:24:17] <mru> you tell me
  • [20:24:21] <alan_o> mru: you use picocom too?
  • [20:24:32] <mru> screen seems to work ok here
  • [20:24:48] <KotH> mru: i'm surprised that you didnt write your own terminal program yet :)
  • [20:25:36] <alan_o> if you're ever stuck on windows, realterm is nice for debugging serial hardware. Can do a lot of hex stuff.
  • [20:26:03] <alan_o> I wish I had some of it's capability on something on linux (but I haven't looked very hard).
  • [20:26:05] <mru> lame name, realitty would've been much better
  • [20:26:23] <KotH> alan_o: i have a linux box under my desk, exactly for that purpose
  • [20:26:40] <KotH> alan_o: and people always come to me because their windows tools dont do stuff
  • [20:27:03] <alan_o> KotH: what do you mean "exactly for that purpose?"
  • [20:27:14] <mru> what I'd like is a small system with a ton of rs232 and an ethernet port
  • [20:27:18] <KotH> for debugging embedded hardware
  • [20:27:32] <alan_o> KotH: oh, I was saying that realterm (on windows) is good for that.
  • [20:27:49] <mru> and he said he doesn't need it because he has a linux box
  • [20:27:51] <mranostay> mru: max232 and a bone?
  • [20:28:02] <KotH> alan_o: if the only OS you have, every problem will look like a bluescreen :)
  • [20:28:05] <mranostay> you have 4 uarts you can hookup
  • [20:28:05] <mru> mranostay: not enough uarts
  • [20:28:12] <KotH> alan_o: if the only OS you have is windows, every problem will look like a bluescreen :)
  • [20:28:12] <mru> or are you suggesting I bitbang them?
  • [20:28:16] <alan_o> KotH: What do you use for serial debugging, like looking at hex, sending hex strings, etc?
  • [20:28:24] <mranostay> i'm also saying bitbang everything
  • [20:28:29] <mranostay> *always
  • [20:28:34] <KotH> alan_o: 10 lines of c?
  • [20:28:45] <prpplague> mru: how many uarts?
  • [20:28:59] <mru> two dozen or so should get me started
  • [20:29:07] <KotH> alan_o: you know, on linux i can just write small c prog, shell script, ... and pipe it's data to picocom
  • [20:29:17] <alan_o> KotH: bah... I want something I can change settings on quickly and re-test.
  • [20:29:18] <prpplague> mru: standard 115200 max on them all?
  • [20:29:29] <KotH> alan_o: never had that need
  • [20:29:56] <alan_o> KotH: it's more like, people hand me hardware that isn't documented whether it needs null modem, what kind of serial settings, etc.
  • [20:30:13] <KotH> alan_o: i hope you charge them a lot
  • [20:30:29] <alan_o> KotH: it's typically T&M, so I suppose so
  • [20:30:38] <KotH> alan_o: but writing a small gui that does that shouldnt be hard
  • [20:30:48] <KotH> alan_o: at most 10kloc or so
  • [20:30:49] <alan_o> KotH: but I'm never surprised at lack of documentation of basic stuff.
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  • [20:30:59] <KotH> alan_o: T&M?
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  • [20:31:13] <alan_o> KotH: there's no doubt I could write something, but having stuff that's already done is nice too.
  • [20:31:22] <alan_o> KotH: time and materials. Basically billing by the hour
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  • [20:31:35] <ds2> alan_o: it is not minicom. it is the kernel and USB enumeration
  • [20:31:42] <KotH> alan_o: my experience is, that realterm (or actually windows underneath) is worse than anything i have under linux
  • [20:31:43] <ds2> unless you left it configure for init port
  • [20:32:12] <alan_o> ds2: right, definitly not minicom.
  • [20:32:19] <alan_o> ds2: I think it's the hardware
  • [20:32:25] <KotH> alan_o: do you charge them extra for emotional harm caused by these devices
  • [20:32:26] <ds2> USB
  • [20:32:30] <alan_o> but does yours come up right away?
  • [20:32:39] <ds2> nope
  • [20:32:40] <alan_o> is 20s on par with your experience?
  • [20:32:41] <alan_o> ok
  • [20:32:42] <mru> prpplague: 115200 is enough
  • [20:32:50] <KotH> alan_o: 20s for enumeration?
  • [20:32:50] <ds2> enumeration can be slow but 20s seems a bit high
  • [20:32:53] <KotH> alan_o: that's a bit long
  • [20:32:57] <alan_o> ds2: it's not the enumeration
  • [20:33:04] <alan_o> it enumerates, shows good in the log
  • [20:33:07] <alan_o> but I can't open it
  • [20:33:14] <alan_o> "Device or resource busy"
  • [20:33:21] <alan_o> screen, minicom, whatever
  • [20:33:27] <KotH> alan_o: udev being blocked?
  • [20:33:31] <mru> maybe it's loading firmware :)
  • [20:33:38] <ds2> ftdi don't need firmware
  • [20:33:49] <KotH> ds2: maybe systemd thinks otherwise ;)
  • [20:34:06] <mru> ds2: then it won't succeed in loading it
  • [20:34:11] <alan_o> KotH: don't think so. I'm accessing it through a udev-created symlink, which is created right away
  • [20:34:25] <KotH> alan_o: strange
  • [20:34:33] <mru> does lsof have anything to say?
  • [20:34:36] <prpplague> mru: i have a couple of designs that i had done with the thought of doing a terminal server
  • [20:34:53] <prpplague> mru: digi sells some nice ones, but they are pretty expensive
  • [20:35:00] <alan_o> mru, good question, seems like I tried that. let me try again
  • [20:36:08] * eikeon (~eikeon@140.147.245.26) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  • [20:36:52] <jkridner> koen: I swear I used to be able to execute gpe-scap from the serial port.
  • [20:37:11] * Eric (18946c64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.148.108.100) has joined #beagle
  • [20:37:25] <jkridner> I'm not sure if I'm missing an 'xhost +' or anything like that.
  • [20:37:34] * Eric is now known as Guest72560
  • [20:37:55] <KotH> jkridner: $DISPLAY?
  • [20:38:52] <alan_o> mru: well now it wants to come up fast :)
  • [20:39:03] <KotH> heisenbug
  • [20:39:13] <mru> alan_o: good, you found a workaround
  • [20:39:13] <jkridner> KotH: I'm setting it to :0.0
  • [20:39:29] <alan_o> mru: hehe
  • [20:39:37] <alan_o> "just run it in the deugger then"
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  • [20:40:13] <ds2> jkridner: are you using systemd or similar cruft?
  • [20:40:14] <KotH> jkridner: on an embedded system, and you expect it to display the x stuff on tft?
  • [20:40:20] <ds2> that might be screwing with permissions
  • [20:40:29] <ds2> :0.0 depends in the X server unix domain socket
  • [20:40:43] <KotH> ds2: x is already a bitch by itself when it comes to security
  • [20:40:49] <ds2> localhost:0.0 depends on 127.0.0.1:6000 which a lot of distros disable
  • [20:40:51] <KotH> ds2: no need for systemd to mess up anything
  • [20:41:03] <ds2> X is prefectly fine until the assholes doing distros screwed it up
  • [20:41:06] <alan_o> mru: oh well, it's only annoying once per session. Probably why I haven't had much motivation to fix it.
  • [20:41:19] <ds2> -notcp is NOT a good default
  • [20:41:27] <KotH> ds2: actually, tcp port has been disabled by the x people themselves
  • [20:41:37] <ds2> not in the distros I seen
  • [20:41:38] <KotH> ds2: hardly anyone uses it anymore
  • [20:41:47] <mru> "the x people" ain't who they used to be
  • [20:41:53] <alan_o> KotH: yeah, sounds like a great plan, let's just turn stuff off.
  • [20:42:00] <alan_o> KotH: like ctrl-alt-bksp
  • [20:42:02] <ds2> i.e. "-nolisten tcp" on the command line. that sounds like a distro problem
  • [20:42:13] <KotH> alan_o: the x proto has not been designed with a lot of security in mind
  • [20:42:19] <alan_o> KotH: and then say "nobody complained when it was in beta"
  • [20:42:33] <ds2> security needs to be at the userlevel
  • [20:42:34] <alan_o> KotH: even though nobody uses beta X (compared to an ubuntu release)
  • [20:42:42] <ds2> you cannot do security with a 20000ton sledge
  • [20:42:43] <KotH> alan_o: most people use ssh x forwarding to access remote systems these days
  • [20:42:53] <KotH> alan_o: so it does make sense to plug that security hole
  • [20:42:58] <ds2> morons will find ways to accidentially bypass it w/o knowing.
  • [20:43:06] <alan_o> KotH: oh yeah, no doubt, and it's always been defaulted that way as far as I've known
  • [20:43:18] <alan_o> KotH: well, in distros I've used, etc.
  • [20:43:36] <KotH> ds2: the various startup scripts that are distributed with xorg set that
  • [20:43:37] <alan_o> KotH: well, not blocking TCP overall, but not allowing it from outside localhost.
  • [20:43:43] <KotH> ds2: that's hardly a distro thing
  • [20:43:49] <ds2> KotH: distros can change things.
  • [20:43:54] <KotH> ds2: sure
  • [20:43:55] <ds2> it is a distro thing
  • [20:44:04] <alan_o> I hate distros, they're the worst
  • [20:44:23] <KotH> alan_o: running lfs?
  • [20:44:29] <mru> if they weren't so convinced they know better than the original authors...
  • [20:44:50] <KotH> mru: if it's p?ttering, they actually do
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  • [20:45:11] <jkridner> ds2: yes, systemd.
  • [20:45:13] <mru> KotH: but his sw should not be used at all
  • [20:45:22] <jkridner> does it start X with funny permissions?
  • [20:45:25] <KotH> yeah
  • [20:45:28] <alan_o> KotH: no, I'm running ubuntu 10.04.
  • [20:45:34] <KotH> lol
  • [20:45:43] <alan_o> KotH: I don't screw with distros much. Once something works, I leave it alone until ti doesn't
  • [20:45:45] <KotH> alan_o: then you have no right to complain
  • [20:45:49] <alan_o> ???
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  • [20:46:00] <alan_o> I was trying (unsuccessfully) to be funny :)
  • [20:46:15] <KotH> alan_o: ubunto is geared down for main stream, gui clickibunti users
  • [20:46:15] <ds2> jkridner: it tries to be invasive as to what the perms are set to... some guys was on the other night and the problem was systemd chowning things it shouldn't be
  • [20:46:22] <alan_o> KotH: I used to like Slackware and the vanilla everything attitude
  • [20:46:46] <alan_o> KotH: then he stopped packaging gnome.
  • [20:46:46] <KotH> alan_o: they explicitly want to adress the 80% of the users that does not want to deal with the intricate details of running a linux system
  • [20:46:52] <mru> I used to run something that had once been slackware
  • [20:47:04] <alan_o> KotH: but recently I think I've abandoned ship and moved to kde.
  • [20:47:07] <KotH> alan_o: you are definitly not one of those 80%
  • [20:47:20] <ds2> it is preferred that those 80% don't run computers.
  • [20:47:23] <KotH> alan_o: why would you need gnome or kde?
  • [20:47:33] <mru> what ds2 said
  • [20:47:48] <alan_o> KotH: it's not a matter of need, it's a matter of I don't like to have to manually screw with stuff _all_ the time.
  • [20:48:02] * KotH doesnt screw manually with anything
  • [20:48:05] <mru> ds2: do you think they'd notice if we replaced their computers with backlit posters of the windows bsod?
  • [20:48:06] <KotH> or very little actually
  • [20:48:22] <ds2> mru: I think the backlit part isn't even needed
  • [20:48:27] <mru> KotH: you prefer electric screwdrivers?
  • [20:48:31] <ds2> prehaps some of those "computers" that ikea uses in their showrooms?
  • [20:48:39] <KotH> alan_o: and i have not run gnome or kde for 12 years (safe 2 months on my laptop to try whether it still sucks... and it does)
  • [20:48:55] <KotH> mru: with at least 500W
  • [20:49:03] <alan_o> KotH: and it's like this.... When I walk into a customer facility, and I can get on the wifi in 2 seconds, that makes linux look good (to them), and when they hand me a USB stick and I plug it in and the filemanager pops up, that makes linux look good (to them). If I'm staring at an X test pattern and have to manually mount disks and manually run iwconfig then that makes Linux look bad.
  • [20:49:17] <EJ> I am looking for a way to interface with a device that uses a dual port memory interface with 11 address lines and 8 data lines. Any suggestions?
  • [20:49:25] <KotH> alan_o: you can get that w/o gnome
  • [20:49:35] <alan_o> KotH: I know
  • [20:49:42] <alan_o> that's why I've been running it for years :)
  • [20:49:44] <KotH> alan_o: and much faster as well
  • [20:49:47] <mru> had to check my power drill, says 550W
  • [20:50:08] <alan_o> oh wait, you said w/o
  • [20:50:20] <alan_o> KotH: maybe I can, if I do everything myself, or run some other desktop
  • [20:50:33] <KotH> alan_o: i dont do everything myself
  • [20:50:43] <KotH> alan_o: i dont have the time for that and i'm not 18 anymore
  • [20:50:52] <mru> I definitely prefer to control mounting of disks myself
  • [20:50:53] <alan_o> tried xfce, but it doesn't have good wireless integration, and the trackpad doesn't work well unless you really screw with it.
  • [20:50:56] <KotH> alan_o: eg wicd handles my wifi needs
  • [20:51:19] <alan_o> KotH: yeah, I saw wicd, but haven't tried it. (had other problems)
  • [20:51:22] <KotH> alan_o: simply install it, put it into .Xsession and the rest works like it should
  • [20:51:26] <alan_o> KotH: so what's your desktop of choice
  • [20:51:26] <alan_o> ?
  • [20:51:30] <mru> what does the window manager have to do with the trackpad?
  • [20:51:41] <mru> that should be handled entirely by X itself
  • [20:51:48] <KotH> alan_o: plain x11 w/o any fucking desktop enviroment that thinks it knows better than i do what i want
  • [20:52:01] <alan_o> well, without manually screwing with anything..... when I run xfce it doesn't work the way I want, and with gnome/kde it does
  • [20:52:26] <alan_o> I don't know what it should or shouldn't have to do with it, but I'm just reflecting reality as I see it.
  • [20:52:44] <mru> what kind of trackpad? synaptics?
  • [20:52:45] <alan_o> KotH: X11 and xterm?
  • [20:52:46] <KotH> alan_o: i have an icewm config, that i keep for.. prolly 11 years. it got adjusted over the years for changing screen sizes, but not much
  • [20:53:14] <alan_o> mru: the one that's on the macbook pro.. uses synaptics driver.
  • [20:54:05] <mru> then dump the settings with synclient when it's working like you want it
  • [20:54:17] <mru> and restore them under whatever wm you like
  • [20:54:44] <alan_o> KotH: the other thing is that stuff is easy once you've figrued out how to do it, right? "just put wicd in your .Xsettings" It's not the putting it in the xsettings that takes time. It's the time between, "hmm, my wireless doesn't work" and figuring out what you have to do. And I know it's popular to say that kind of stuff is easy, but it's hours I'd rather spend doing software development or learning something I actually care about. Kno
  • [20:54:45] <alan_o> w what I mean?
  • [20:54:45] <KotH> alan_o: yeah.. though i use urxvt
  • [20:55:14] <KotH> alan_o: sylpheed for mail, firefox for web, gajim for xpp, xmms for mp3,...
  • [20:55:18] <alan_o> mru: sure, that works. But like I said above, it's not what's fun for me, I guess.
  • [20:55:47] <mru> alan_o: it's something you'd do once
  • [20:56:04] <mru> if that's what's stopping you using another wm
  • [20:56:19] <KotH> alan_o: i know what you mean. but "wireless does not work" doesn't happen that often, and wicd helps with the setup
  • [20:56:22] <alan_o> I also have a friend who says, "I turn on every kind of desktop effect I can, so that people come up and say, 'hey that's cool, what's that,' and I say 'that's linux,' and they're interested"
  • [20:56:39] <KotH> alan_o: but yes, i know how the tools behind it work, how ifconfig, iwconfig etc work
  • [20:56:48] <KotH> alan_o: i also know quite well how x11 works
  • [20:56:51] <alan_o> It is something you do once, but it quickly turns into once every time you upgrade.
  • [20:56:59] <KotH> alan_o: that is stuff i consider basic linux knowledge
  • [20:57:12] <mru> upgrade, what's that?
  • [20:57:25] * mru does not believe in the Big Upgrade model
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  • [20:57:50] <KotH> alan_o: i dont know how shitty ubuntu has become, but running debian/testing on anything that isnt a server and i have yet to find something that breaks at every update
  • [20:58:01] <alan_o> KotH: I know those things too, and I could make a script that does all that, putt it in.xsettings, etc, but I guess I just prefer to spend my energy on more interesting aspects of Linux.
  • [20:58:02] <KotH> alan_o: as i said, my base config is about 12 years old
  • [20:58:09] <KotH> alan_o: it's from the time i started using linux
  • [20:58:33] <mru> KotH: ubuntu and fedora kind of make it a point for each release to be distinctly different somehow
  • [20:58:34] <KotH> alan_o: it's very seldom something brakes, and it's most often in the kernel than anything lese (called the kinali linux curse)
  • [20:58:37] <alan_o> KotH: well, if my desktop was urxvt, nothing of mine would be broken either :)
  • [20:59:59] <KotH> alan_o: uhmm..
  • [21:00:12] <KotH> alan_o: although most of my windows are urxvt's, they are not the only ones
  • [21:00:26] <KotH> alan_o: i've prolly 200-500 windows open
  • [21:00:55] <KotH> alan_o: i gues that urxvt and firefox are both about 1/3 of that
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  • [21:01:43] <alan_o> I think there's benefit to having a desktop. I guess I just started this stuff with ancient KDE (pre-release 4 or something like that) and gnome (0.2). I see the value of having panels with little widgets on them, stuff like the x-chat notifier blinking when I have a message, launchers for the 6 apps I use all the time, multiple desktops that easily just work, etc.
  • [21:01:59] <KotH> alan_o: yes, my system looks "strange" to the linux noob, because he has not seen how unices looked 10 years ago, but it's not an outdated system where everything is done by hand. i'm lazy as well, you know?
  • [21:01:59] <jkridner> turns out it wasn't anything odd....
  • [21:02:08] <jkridner> just needed to issue 'xhost +'
  • [21:02:14] <alan_o> And, here's the best part, if my wife wants to use it, she can sit down and start clicking, and walk away with the feeling that Linux is usable to normal people.
  • [21:02:22] <alan_o> jkridner: nooooo!!!!
  • [21:02:39] <KotH> alan_o: oh.. icewm can do notifiers as well, that's nothing you need a full blown DE for
  • [21:02:42] <jkridner> It didn't used to be required in the images.
  • [21:02:56] <KotH> alan_o: lol
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  • [21:03:25] <KotH> alan_o: i've friends who know linux, who have a hard time using my system... because it has focus follows mouse, and hundreds of windows open on a dozen desktops
  • [21:03:45] <KotH> alan_o: but as i said, i have a weird (by todays standards) way of using my system
  • [21:04:04] <alan_o> KotH: I've gone back and forth on focus follows mouse. I settled on having it off, but I try it the other way sometime. I'm a compulsive mouser/highlighter.
  • [21:04:48] <KotH> hmm.. i used ot have pictures of my desktop somewhere
  • [21:04:52] <KotH> wonder where they went
  • [21:05:40] <KotH> alan_o: the cool thing about linux (unlike windows or macos) is you can actually configure the system to the way you are working
  • [21:05:51] <KotH> alan_o: ie, you adapt the system to your needs, and not the otherway round
  • [21:06:02] <KotH> alan_o: unless you are using gnome3 ofc
  • [21:06:15] <alan_o> KotH: and that's why I'm pretty much done with gnome
  • [21:07:00] <alan_o> KotH: it's sad really. I was running cinammon until about a week after ELC and then I switched over to KDE.
  • [21:07:16] <KotH> alan_o: http://attila.kinali.ch/syl.jpg
  • [21:07:34] <KotH> alan_o: a typical view of my desktop, when on the second (mail client) desktop
  • [21:07:51] <KotH> alan_o: though that pic is old... 2002
  • [21:07:54] <mru> that mail client always makes me think of syphilis
  • [21:08:01] <KotH> rotlf
  • [21:08:10] <alan_o> mru: makes you start itching?
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  • [21:08:44] <KotH> alan_o: another (old) impression http://attila.kinali.ch/xnetload.jpg
  • [21:09:13] <alan_o> KotH: that wm border style looks just like Java Swing's default theme (or what it used to look like) when you make MDI windows.
  • [21:09:28] <KotH> alan_o: it's older than that :)
  • [21:09:33] <KotH> alan_o: icewm metal2 theme
  • [21:09:46] <alan_o> can't remember what Java called it
  • [21:09:50] <KotH> alan_o: i'm quite sure it's copied from somewhere else, but i dont know where
  • [21:10:02] <mru> alan_o: "metal" iirc
  • [21:10:28] <alan_o> mru that sounds right. Maybe icewm borrowed it, or maybe the other way. Swing was like 1998?
  • [21:10:35] <alan_o> Java 1.2
  • [21:10:53] <alan_o> I used it in 99, but it wasn't widely deployed. Most were on 1.0
  • [21:11:00] <mru> likewise
  • [21:11:01] <alan_o> 1.1
  • [21:11:22] <mru> and for all its horrors, it was miles better than awt
  • [21:11:37] <woglinde> I frist saw some java stuff 98 or so
  • [21:11:45] <alan_o> mru: I loved doing Java back then, I won't lie.
  • [21:12:01] <alan_o> I thought making GUIs was where it was at.
  • [21:12:03] <woglinde> but learned it really since 2003
  • [21:12:07] <mru> remember how gui event handling in awt was done?
  • [21:12:15] <alan_o> yes.
  • [21:12:17] * felipealmeida (~user@mvx-187-16-79-187.mundivox.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [21:12:20] <alan_o> anonymous inner class
  • [21:12:22] <mru> thankfully, I don't
  • [21:12:29] <mru> that was one way
  • [21:12:30] <KotH> lol
  • [21:12:49] * KotH still thinks that turbo vision was one of the simples gui systems ever
  • [21:13:02] <woglinde> now I dont want to use java without maven or spring
  • [21:13:10] <KotH> heck, even i could grasp it after having learned my first programming language a mere 3 months ago
  • [21:13:22] <mru> but you typically had a single object/function receive all events, and then you'd have to check one by one which element it came from
  • [21:13:27] <KotH> woglinde: s/without maven or spring//
  • [21:13:53] <KotH> mru: sounds very OO
  • [21:14:00] <alan_o> mru: a lot of people did that, but I never did
  • [21:14:02] <alan_o> you didn't have to
  • [21:14:07] <KotH> or rather "i have no fucking clue what OO means"
  • [21:14:09] <alan_o> I never understood why that was done
  • [21:14:16] <mru> alan_o: that was what all the books said
  • [21:14:42] <mru> the alternative was to have one event listener object per gui element
  • [21:14:48] <alan_o> mru: a lot of them did, yes. Still, no idea why, when doing it the more obvious way was easier and cleaner.
  • [21:15:02] <alan_o> mru: yeah, that.
  • [21:15:13] <mru> the idea of passing the an element reference along with the event never seemed to occur to the people who made it
  • [21:15:19] <KotH> http://attila.kinali.ch/japan-2009/essen/p8040167.jpg <- as distraction from all this technical stuff
  • [21:15:44] <mru> looks fishy
  • [21:15:52] <KotH> mru: sorry dude, nothing for you
  • [21:15:54] <alan_o> mru: I think it did do that. that's what people switched or if/else'd on. if (sender == button1), etc.
  • [21:16:04] <KotH> mru: http://attila.kinali.ch/japan-2009/essen/p7270004.jpg
  • [21:16:31] <KotH> mru: that's from a danke in chourinkan/yamato-shi/kanagawa-ken :)
  • [21:16:34] <mru> alan_o: hmm maybe, but it was missing something obvious that was added in swing
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  • [21:16:59] <alan_o> mru: oh, in awt, yeah, hard for me to remember, I thought the event hadnling was the same, but I could be wrong.
  • [21:17:09] <KotH> mru: or rather chinese http://attila.kinali.ch/japan-2009/essen/p7280005.jpg (yokohama, in one of the trainstation, whos name i forgot)
  • [21:17:48] <alan_o> KotH: now that's starting to look more like it. Cooked food!
  • [21:18:09] <KotH> alan_o: http://attila.kinali.ch/japan-2009/essen/p8010067.jpg that's the only thing you get! ;-)
  • [21:18:29] <alan_o> aww man...
  • [21:18:45] <KotH> (yes, this is really a bag full of ice, bought in a supermarket)
  • [21:19:15] <KotH> alan_o: how about http://attila.kinali.ch/japan-2009/essen/p8040094.jpg ?
  • [21:19:25] * kaio (~kaio@fedora/kaio) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [21:19:35] <KotH> (ekiben, bought in shinjuku-eki iirc)
  • [21:19:41] <alan_o> I don't even know what I'm looking at
  • [21:21:17] <KotH> left to right, top to bottom: pickled plumes, grilled fish, cooked pumpkin and sweet potatos, rice with fish and konyaku, rice with natto and sesam, rice with konyaku and sesam
  • [21:22:31] <alan_o> sounds good to me
  • [21:22:38] <alan_o> I like "grilled" :)
  • [21:22:49] <KotH> oh.. sorry.. germanism
  • [21:22:50] <KotH> ^^'
  • [21:22:59] <KotH> grill = bbq
  • [21:23:05] <KotH> grilled = fried
  • [21:23:19] <alan_o> no, I was being serious.. I like cooked :)
  • [21:23:20] <KotH> how about some japanese sweets: http://attila.kinali.ch/japan-2009/essen/p8070194.jpg
  • [21:23:48] <alan_o> I like the looks of that too
  • [21:23:54] <KotH> http://attila.kinali.ch/japan-2009/essen/p8090234.jpg <- more my style of food
  • [21:24:12] * kaio (~kaio@fedora/kaio) has joined #beagle
  • [21:24:27] <KotH> cant remember where that was though, somewhere in kanagawa-ken
  • [21:24:32] * kaio (~kaio@fedora/kaio) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  • [21:25:22] <KotH> http://attila.kinali.ch/japan-2009/essen/p8090236.jpg <- even better! zaru-soba and a donburi!
  • [21:25:22] * kaio (~kaio@fedora/kaio) has joined #beagle
  • [21:25:51] * KotH needs to go to japan
  • [21:25:55] <KotH> soon!
  • [21:26:26] * kaio (~kaio@fedora/kaio) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [21:26:41] <KotH> av500: FYE http://attila.kinali.ch/tagesanzeiger-zuerich-informatiker.jpg
  • [21:26:58] * travalas_ (~ncharles@pool-108-49-55-4.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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  • [21:28:11] <woglinde> koth nice the comment
  • [21:28:12] <KotH> av500: letter send to a major newspaper after within 2-3 month three programmers killed their families and themselves
  • [21:30:15] * damir__ (~damir@cpe-212-85-175-204.cable.telemach.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
  • [21:31:14] <KotH> and with that, i wish you a good night
  • [21:31:14] * panto boggles at the shit that get merged to mainline some times
  • [21:31:27] <alan_o> KotH: later!
  • [21:31:31] <alan_o> panto: link?
  • [21:31:42] <KotH> panto: dont worry, have a look at the pictures above and have some nice japanese food :)
  • [21:31:46] <panto> alan_o, just a bug I came across
  • [21:31:53] <mru> panto: there's a reason I run the long-term maintenance kernels
  • [21:32:01] <panto> daily wtf material
  • [21:32:01] <mru> and update only once they've reached .10 or so
  • [21:32:15] <panto> mru, I'll check and see
  • [21:32:42] <panto> chances are you are just lucky and never hit the case
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  • [23:12:28] <mranostay> hi prpplague !
  • [23:12:53] <prpplague> mranostay: hey
  • [23:12:57] * prpplague is grumpy
  • [23:13:46] <mranostay> i can imagine
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  • [23:15:21] * prpplague tears down panda posters and takes down his "I don't always develop, but when i do, i do it embedded" post card
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  • [23:16:04] <mru> prpplague: being kicked out of the office already?
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  • [23:16:54] <prpplague> mru: yep
  • [23:17:09] <mru> sucks
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  • [23:18:55] <mranostay> prpplague: need a group hug?
  • [23:19:45] <prpplague> first person that tries that on me gets a panda pcb between the eyes.... hehe
  • [23:19:58] <mru> av500: give him a bear hug
  • [23:20:02] <ds2> oooh free pandas ;)
  • [23:20:21] <prpplague> ds2: es1.0 dead pandas
  • [23:20:37] <mranostay> prpplague: only the first person?
  • [23:20:40] <ds2> @#%$#$@%#@$#$#@#@%@$#$A
  • [23:21:23] <prpplague> mranostay: Yu-Gi-Oh got nothing on me when comes to dishing out panda pcbs
  • [23:22:58] * florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  • [23:24:17] <mranostay> do we get to keep the pandas we are pelted with?
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  • [23:37:58] <prpplague> mranostay: only if they draw blood
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  • [23:46:21] <wmat> heh
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