• [00:00:01] <mru> gcc often gets slower
  • [00:00:07] <mru> why could that happen to orc?
  • [00:00:10] <ds> Orc is not gcc
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  • [00:00:21] <mru> everything has regressions from time to time
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  • [00:03:41] <ds> So your best argument is "doubt"?
  • [00:04:33] <mru> no, my best argument is the thousands of lines of neon code I've written
  • [00:05:02] <ds> How is that relevant?
  • [00:05:24] <mru> it's much faster than anything a compiler could produce
  • [00:05:34] <ds> congratulations
  • [00:06:42] <ds> Perhaps we could clone you and have the clones write the millions of lines of neon code that are needed
  • [00:06:59] <mru> there are other smart people around
  • [00:07:13] <ds2> just dumb people outnumber them
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  • [00:16:15] <emeb> http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/1448.html
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  • [00:51:40] <Sirisian> Do you guys think it would be hard to use a Seeeduino Mega with a beagleboard? I need a lot of I/O pins for buttons and ultrasonic sensors.
  • [00:58:26] <emeb> why not?
  • [00:58:50] <emeb> or get a TCT Trainer & wire up I/O expanders on I2C port
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  • [00:59:44] <emeb> how much I/O do you need?
  • [01:01:36] <ds2> 500+ gpios =)
  • [01:02:14] <emeb> ds2: how's things?
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  • [01:03:30] <ds2> got cold :(
  • [01:03:57] <djlewis> just tuned in here, colod front ?
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  • [01:06:39] <ds2> no, as in the virii
  • [01:06:47] <Sirisian> emeb, Well I have 2 ultrasonic sensors and 3 buttons. So 2 pwm/i2c and 3 I/O pins for buttons. I believe.
  • [01:07:46] <Sirisian> Unless you know of a simple interface other than pulling in another board. That's the first time I've heard of a TCT trainer
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  • [01:08:24] <ds2> just do it directly
  • [01:08:50] <Sirisian> directly?
  • [01:09:13] <ds2> yes
  • [01:09:41] <Sirisian> I'm more of a CS person with almost no hardware experience. "Pretend" I don't know what I'm doing.
  • [01:09:53] <ds2> 2 pwm + i2c + 3 buttons can be done directly... either perf board or hand wire
  • [01:10:13] <ds2> oh... sorry, cant help there then
  • [01:10:22] <Sirisian> ah
  • [01:10:44] <Sirisian> I don't want to have to create anything with extra circuits basically :P
  • [01:11:00] <ds2> pay someone?
  • [01:11:17] <emeb> Sirisian: if you used a *duino, how would you hook it up?
  • [01:11:36] <Sirisian> no idea. The serial port is used for programming.
  • [01:12:25] <emeb> Sirisian: here's the Trainer: http://www.tincantools.com/product.php?productid=16149&cat=255&page=1
  • [01:12:38] <djlewis> oh, the infamous Trainer...
  • [01:12:54] <emeb> it's got enough I/O to do what you need, plus level shifters and an AVR for *duino stuff
  • [01:12:55] <djlewis> makes it easy for you.
  • [01:14:23] <emeb> djlewis: back home?
  • [01:15:02] <djlewis> emeb: yep, got the workbench in the living room, been cleaning it up
  • [01:15:23] <djlewis> big challenge is to find a home for it in the house.
  • [01:15:27] <emeb> the living room as staging area...
  • [01:15:48] <djlewis> 60" w x 30" deep
  • [01:16:28] <emeb> That's decent sized.
  • [01:16:48] <emeb> Does it have a shelf for equipment above/back?
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  • [01:22:05] <djlewis> emeb: working on images
  • [01:23:39] <emeb> ooooh... pictures....
  • [01:23:55] <emeb> make sure and get a dog in the picture for scale. :)
  • [01:26:38] <djlewis> My webcam is acting funky and I cant find my digital.. http://imagebin.org/113310
  • [01:27:10] <djlewis> the quad monitor and sony pan/tilt and bench came along at about $62.00
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  • [01:30:36] <emeb> very nice.
  • [01:30:53] <emeb> looks ideal for tech work.
  • [01:31:24] <emeb> put scopes, stock, etc on top shelf
  • [01:31:46] <ds2> and get tinyscopes
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  • [01:32:03] <emeb> ds2: new DSOs aren't deep
  • [01:32:25] <ds2> even tek ones?
  • [01:32:48] <emeb> all the low-end 'lunchbox' style DSOs are about 6-8" deep.
  • [01:33:10] <ds2> oh
  • [01:33:19] <emeb> w/o CRT there's no need for a long case
  • [01:34:06] <ds2> i like crts for catching the odd stuff that sampling destroys
  • [01:34:11] <djlewis> I'll have to use the gear on bench top as to not strain my neeck with bifocals on :(
  • [01:34:14] <emeb> ds2: +1
  • [01:34:34] <emeb> if I ever get a DSO I'm hanging onto my Tek 2213 for just that reason
  • [01:34:43] <emeb> digital scopes can lie to you
  • [01:34:56] <djlewis> yep I decided to keep my Tek dinosaur as well.
  • [01:35:11] <djlewis> after discovering it is 50Mhz
  • [01:37:18] <emeb> djlewis: the Rigol & others have 1Gsps sampling - is that constant, even at longer sweeps?
  • [01:37:18] <djlewis> i hope I left my digital at the office
  • [01:37:55] <emeb> IOW do they do sample rate conversion to ensure that aliasing doesn't wipe stuff out?
  • [01:39:03] <ds2> i hope they LPF in analog first
  • [01:39:31] <emeb> ds2: either that, or digital SRC after the ADC
  • [01:39:44] <emeb> while leaving ADC running at full rate...
  • [01:39:53] <ds2> i trust 3db more
  • [01:40:01] <emeb> but (ugh!) no simple decimation...
  • [01:41:23] <emeb> I liked the way the old logic analyzers had a special 'glitch' symbol they'd put on the waveform when you zoomed out too far
  • [01:41:46] <emeb> the DSOs need something like that to indicate "something happened here that I can't show you at this resolution"
  • [01:42:15] <emeb> (not saying they don't mind you)
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  • [01:44:11] <djlewis> emeb: manual states Memdepth Long Mem as 512kpts or 1Mpts, Normal as 8kpts or 16kpts
  • [01:44:25] <djlewis> is that what you asked?
  • [01:44:37] <ds2> but that means a 100MHz is less then a 100MHz analog scope
  • [01:44:58] <djlewis> less cost :)
  • [01:45:54] <djlewis> realtime sampling at 1GSa/s
  • [01:46:01] <emeb> djlewis: I'd better grab the full manual & dig around. It's more a matter of how/if the ADC sample rate varies
  • [01:46:29] <djlewis> yeah, I have little experience with DSO's
  • [01:46:47] * emeb also
  • [01:47:00] <ds2> get to know nyquist
  • [01:47:09] <emeb> but I have a fair amount of experience with DSP & sampling, so that makes me dangerous
  • [01:47:56] <djlewis> and I have a fair amount of experience with our now extinct ntsc and the same
  • [01:48:19] <emeb> djlewis: I've wondered what happens to all the NTSC gear out there now that ATSC is the std
  • [01:48:38] <djlewis> Heck, I saw three chip colour cameras I used to service that cost several thousand dollars selling for $20 today.
  • [01:48:52] <emeb> how useful is the little RCA / S-video jack anymore?
  • [01:49:03] <djlewis> tons of video studio equipment going for peanuts
  • [01:49:15] <emeb> who'da thunk it
  • [01:49:31] <djlewis> Hey, I have tons of s-video and composite even rgb video stuff
  • [01:49:49] * emeb pulled the analog TV cards out of his computer a few months ago
  • [01:50:05] <djlewis> a few years back I gave $125 for a $25k video special effects unit
  • [01:50:36] <djlewis> ds2: I saw two line inkjet line printers about a yard wide today.
  • [01:50:51] <djlewis> the platten that is
  • [01:51:04] <Jefro> those are fantastic for printing blueprints
  • [01:51:06] <emeb> djlewis: you mean like inkjet plotters?
  • [01:51:38] <djlewis> tall, on stands, about a foot deep and high and wide printer.ploters. not X/Y
  • [01:52:08] <emeb> yeah - they rasterize everything but can still do pseudo line plots
  • [01:52:12] <djlewis> not the Pen type x/y type
  • [01:52:32] <djlewis> I have used both
  • [01:52:36] <emeb> those are still sold for arch/engr work, no?
  • [01:53:13] * emeb would like to see the giant inkjets used for making billboards
  • [01:53:46] <ds2> I I would love to have a yard wide inkjet
  • [01:54:00] <ds2> I can think of lots of uses... even doing tabloid size pages
  • [01:54:18] <emeb> so why didn't you get one? :)
  • [01:55:00] <emeb> s/didn't/don't/
  • [01:55:12] <emeb> they're probably not hard to find used...
  • [01:55:29] <emeb> main problem is that consumables are $$$
  • [01:55:57] <djlewis> one had huge ink paks in the bottom
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  • [01:56:24] <djlewis> emeb: i'll find myh digital later on and position and dress out my new $10 work bench.
  • [01:56:32] <djlewis> It is much nocer than the image shows
  • [01:56:58] <djlewis> s/nocer/nicer
  • [01:57:02] <emeb> djlewis: load it up with equipment - make it look busy
  • [01:57:35] <djlewis> sexy :)
  • [01:58:34] <djlewis> I was given and extra $400 for something a couple years back so I have a little more equipment funds
  • [01:59:26] <djlewis> still thinking on a bench DMM and analog.digital sig generator
  • [01:59:31] <emeb> your car repair issue...
  • [01:59:34] <djlewis> but both are expensive
  • [01:59:38] <djlewis> yes.
  • [01:59:59] <djlewis> i'm such a rachet jaw ;P
  • [02:00:28] <emeb> TMI or TMJ?
  • [02:00:59] <ds2> the ones I saw took HP Deskjet carts
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  • [02:01:10] <ds2> I'd get one if one of a reasonable price shows up
  • [02:01:26] <djlewis> they go for about $100 here
  • [02:01:50] <djlewis> but you gotta be able to test it there and you are stuck with it once you pay for it.
  • [02:01:53] <ds2> that a bit more then reasonable given how "popular" they are
  • [02:02:21] <djlewis> yeah, like everyone has to have one of those monsters ;)
  • [02:02:27] <ds2> there are just a few things I need to print bigger then 11x8.5 so it needs to justify itself over kinkos
  • [02:02:51] <djlewis> bout the floor space of my new workbench
  • [02:03:14] <ds2> surely, you can use one to print up large sky maps :D
  • [02:03:28] <emeb> man - DNS is just crawling for me tonight...
  • [02:03:55] <ppotera_> use IP numbers :)
  • [02:04:12] <emeb> errr... yeah...
  • [02:04:12] <djlewis> I have a large laminated skymap book that is plenty big :)
  • [02:04:26] <djlewis> ping it and get the ip
  • [02:04:28] <ds2> emeb: I have a hosts file for just that reason ;)
  • [02:04:36] <djlewis> but then DNS is slooowwww
  • [02:04:57] <emeb> ds2: works great if the place you're trying to hit is in the hosts file...
  • [02:05:01] <ds2> very useful if you are doing DUN and you donno your provider's DNS server
  • [02:05:19] <ppotera_> google's DNS is 8.8.8.8
  • [02:05:19] <ds2> wonder if nic.dd.army.mil still maintains a massive hosts file
  • [02:05:21] <djlewis> wireless, that still gets me, like that would heppen to me... argh
  • [02:05:37] <emeb> ds2: looks like sfbay craigslist has a bunch of designjets, but folks there are more proud of them
  • [02:05:47] <ds2> ppotera_: is that the fully open one?
  • [02:06:03] <ppotera_> yeah, I reckon
  • [02:06:05] <djlewis> they thinking they have rae antiques
  • [02:06:09] <ds2> emeb: yes... probally ex ASIC/chip folks too... might have printed their first tape out :D
  • [02:06:14] <djlewis> rare
  • [02:06:24] <ds2> more like baby's first shoes for a parent
  • [02:06:28] <emeb> http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/sys/1935428593.html
  • [02:06:40] <emeb> (for example)
  • [02:07:03] <djlewis> u huh
  • [02:07:42] <ds2> $500 will take a lot of kinko trips to pay off
  • [02:08:51] <emeb> yep
  • [02:09:06] <emeb> same things in phx craigslist are about $100 cheaper...
  • [02:09:26] <ds2> I can probally ship it for less then the difference
  • [02:09:37] <ds2> or drive in and pick it up to match it
  • [02:09:41] <emeb> http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/sys/1939711274.html
  • [02:09:54] <ds2> $100 cheaper... n/m
  • [02:10:01] <ds2> thought you said about $100
  • [02:10:21] <djlewis> thats what they go for here
  • [02:10:27] <djlewis> at the state place
  • [02:10:43] <ds2> djlewis: but you are a tad bit further drive :(
  • [02:10:54] <ds2> okay, off to get liquids... I hate getting sick :(
  • [02:11:00] <djlewis> yep, a couple days
  • [02:11:19] <emeb> drink lots for cold/flu.
  • [02:11:30] <emeb> flush things out.. :)
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  • [02:56:25] <djlewis> emeb: I dont have enough sexy test equipment to make it impressive :(
  • [02:57:14] <djlewis> gotta get more power strips too
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  • [03:45:53] <djlewis> emeb: ping
  • [03:46:16] <djlewis> emeb: have you read this, http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1189.0
  • [03:46:28] <djlewis> talks about long memory.
  • [03:46:42] * djlewis is hitting the sack now... :)
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  • [04:11:42] <DanaG> hmm, that beagle8 with serial port issues... I've found that pl2303 doesn't initialize early enough, yet some Belkin PDA adapter (that has no 64-bit Windows driver) works fine.
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  • [04:22:47] <emeb> djlewis: thanks - that's informative
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  • [05:19:07] <Chang> Has anyone ported android froyo on beagle board
  • [05:19:10] <Chang> ?
  • [05:19:39] <_av500_> 0xdroid
  • [05:21:28] <Chang> i didn't find for froyo
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  • [05:31:54] <russ> tomba, are you around? Did you see the fix tasslehoff sent to the omap list?
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  • [06:13:40] <av500> russ: he was posting on l-o yesterday...
  • [06:14:43] <russ> I didn't see him pick up the patch
  • [06:15:43] <russ> tasslehoff might have better luck if he had a sign of in the commit message and used git send-email to send the patch, but I'd think he'd be willing to pick up such a small patch as is
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  • [06:25:34] <av500> russ: dont think this is an issue
  • [06:25:56] <av500> I guess he is just "busy2 :)
  • [06:26:00] <av500> I guess he is just "busy" :)
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  • [06:31:02] * av500 preorders an eagleboard
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  • [06:32:55] <tasslehoff> russ: let me know if I need to redo the patch. a bit busy at work so I probably don't have time today.
  • [06:33:13] <av500> tasslehoff: dont think so
  • [06:33:59] <tasslehoff> for future reference, how should I have done it? Multi-line commit message with "Signed off by: Me" and use git send-email?
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  • [06:37:21] <tasslehoff> another thing that crossed my mind. the patch I sent wasn't created in a cloned ti-psp-omap tree. I created a local repo inside my OE workdir, and patched there. Should I do it in a "real" tree instead? I noticed there's a SHA-1 on the top of the patch, but I don't know if that's ever used.
  • [06:38:03] <av500> tasslehoff: its just a few lines, dont bother which tree it is from
  • [06:38:51] * jpsaman (~jpsaman@videolan/developer/jpsaman) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
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  • [06:39:07] <Pradeep> Hi
  • [06:39:30] <Pradeep> Anybody to help me? :)
  • [06:40:08] * calculus (~calculus@gentoo/user/calculus) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  • [06:40:32] * av500 hides
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  • [06:41:47] <av500> tasslehoff: no he's got no more excuse :)
  • [06:41:49] <av500> now
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  • [06:42:05] <Pradeep> Hey all
  • [06:48:16] <tasslehoff> av500: ok :)
  • [06:49:39] <tasslehoff> av500: how do you add custom timing modes? you mentioned you don't use modedb.c. I tried adding a mode to the table with name "mytiming" and using omapfb.mode:dvi:mytiming-24@60, but that didn't work particularly well..
  • [06:50:19] <av500> for our lcd we define new displays
  • [06:50:28] <av500> with a timing struct
  • [06:51:10] <av500> or we set things up via sysfs
  • [06:51:19] <hvaibhav> av500: that is un-necessary, why do you want to create display-panel files for each and every displays only to change timings
  • [06:51:33] <hvaibhav> yes you can change the timing through SYSFS also
  • [06:51:47] <av500> hvaibhav: displays have more than timings :)
  • [06:52:10] <hvaibhav> yes they do, but o change only timings it doesnt make sense
  • [06:52:23] <av500> they have setup sequences and backlight control etc..
  • [06:53:34] <hvaibhav> i beleive here we are only looking at timings,
  • [06:53:39] <av500> yes
  • [06:53:45] <hvaibhav> also
  • [06:53:52] <av500> for e.g. hdmi we use sysfs
  • [06:54:05] <hvaibhav> thats the reason I have used generic backlight driver for PSP
  • [06:54:42] <hvaibhav> which is independent on panel, you just need to hook up your backlight control API which is EVM/board specific.
  • [06:55:14] <av500> hvaibhav: I know there are more than one way do some things :)
  • [06:55:31] <hvaibhav> yeup
  • [06:55:44] <av500> tasslehoff: i guess adding a mode to modedb should work...
  • [06:56:07] <hvaibhav> coming to the point modedb should work, i have added similar thing for 480P and 720P
  • [06:56:58] <tasslehoff> hvaibhav: did you use a name to identify them?
  • [06:57:33] <hvaibhav> no not really, name is NULL for me. i used "omapfb.mode=dvi:1280x720@60"
  • [06:57:45] <hvaibhav> for 720P
  • [06:59:04] <tasslehoff> hvaibhav: ok. my issue is that the resolution I'm adding already exists, I'm just adjusting the porch-lengths
  • [06:59:50] <hvaibhav> BRB
  • [07:00:37] <hvaibhav> back
  • [07:00:50] <hvaibhav> tasslehoff: name should also work actually
  • [07:01:12] * raster (raster@enlightenment/developer/raster) Quit (Quit: Gettin' stinky!)
  • [07:02:09] <tasslehoff> hvaibhav: it's probably just my bootargs that are wrong.
  • [07:03:12] <hvaibhav> let me try
  • [07:04:39] <tasslehoff> hvaibhav: thanks. I tried to follow <name>[-<bpp>][@<refresh>], so I set omapfb.mode=dvi:mytiming-24@60, and speculated that the dvi: would be stripped somewhere :)
  • [07:05:07] <mru> tasslehoff: remove the -24@60 after mytiming
  • [07:05:10] <mru> it doesn't make sense
  • [07:05:40] <av500> tasslehoff: could the "mytiming" be parsed numerically?
  • [07:05:52] <hvaibhav> yes thats right, it doesn't
  • [07:05:54] <av500> as in WxH?
  • [07:06:10] <hvaibhav> tasslehoff: I just tried and it is working for me
  • [07:06:14] <tasslehoff> mru: hm, right.
  • [07:06:27] <hvaibhav> fbset
  • [07:06:27] <hvaibhav> mode "1280x720-60"
  • [07:06:38] <hvaibhav> console=ttyS0,115200n8 mem=128M root=/dev/nfs noinitrd nfsroot=172.24.190.19:/home/vaibhav/remote/2009.11-rc2/omap3evm,nolock,rsize=1024,wsize=1024 ip=dhcp omapdss.def_disp="dvi" omapfb.mode=dvi:720p-32@60 mpurate=720
  • [07:06:43] <mru> hvaibhav: that doesn't give proper 720p timings
  • [07:06:48] <tasslehoff> av500: don't think so, since 800x600 already exists
  • [07:07:18] <hvaibhav> mru: I used "omapfb.mode=dvi:720p-32@60" string in my bootargs
  • [07:07:25] <mru> don't do that
  • [07:07:28] <hvaibhav> and the output of fbset was what i pasted above
  • [07:07:33] <mru> 720p isn't defined anywhere
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  • [07:07:54] <hvaibhav> hold on, I defiened it in modedb.c file to simulate this issue
  • [07:08:12] <hvaibhav> i have 720P timings named with "720p" string
  • [07:08:25] <mru> ah, ok
  • [07:08:27] <hvaibhav> and I am using name to configure it, which is working for me.
  • [07:08:35] <av500> hvaibhav: and why no patch to modedb sent? :)
  • [07:09:14] <tasslehoff> hvaibhav: hm, then you did the same as me (adding -bpp@res) behind the name
  • [07:09:26] <hvaibhav> This is pending item from my plate which is lagging behind big time
  • [07:09:33] <hvaibhav> yes
  • [07:09:53] <hvaibhav> tasslehoff: yes
  • [07:10:13] <mru> my modedb.c has an "hd720" mode added by koen
  • [07:10:37] <mru> names starting with numbers might confuse something
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  • [07:11:03] <mru> I also have another 1280x720 mode added by hvaibhav
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  • [07:11:09] <mru> with different timings
  • [07:11:20] <hvaibhav> yes thats right, I just added to try tasslehoff issue.
  • [07:11:31] <tasslehoff> ah, typo.
  • [07:11:33] <mru> to _my_ hard disk?
  • [07:11:35] <mru> hardly
  • [07:11:35] * tasslehoff tries again
  • [07:11:49] <mru> and in november last year
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  • [07:22:14] <Pradeep> wats the power required to run beagle board?
  • [07:22:30] <Pradeep> If I connect through a Lithium battery..
  • [07:23:21] * rbarraud (~rbarraud@118-93-183-205.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  • [07:25:55] <av500> 5V
  • [07:26:38] <av500> mru: see, there is a TI backdoor in the BB
  • [07:26:38] <koen> that's voltage
  • [07:26:50] <koen> power is usually in Watts
  • [07:27:06] * av500 googles Watts
  • [07:28:14] * thurbad (~nathan@76.91.0.58) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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  • [07:30:22] <amitk> Pradeep: 5V AC and this is very easily found on Google
  • [07:31:01] <amitk> err, 5V input from AC adapter
  • [07:31:03] <av500> AC?
  • [07:31:29] <koen> thunder!
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  • [07:35:35] * hrw|gone is now known as hrw
  • [07:36:56] <Radiao> Hello, I have a question - do you think that a linux-based system that works on a Beagleboard also works on the http://www.ic-board.de/product_info.php?info=p105_ICnova-SAM9G45-OEM.html ? -> click "Eigenschaften" for technical details ---- (using the same image, kernel and binaries). It's an ARM9 architecture
  • [07:37:26] <mru> of course not
  • [07:37:34] <mru> it's an arm9
  • [07:37:40] <mru> it can't run armv7 code
  • [07:37:58] * jpirko (~jirka@ip-89-103-91-100.net.upcbroadband.cz) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [07:39:00] <Radiao> ok, so there is no backward compatibility from arm9 to arm7, thank you.
  • [07:39:06] <av500> no
  • [07:39:32] <av500> you mixed up ARM9 and armv7
  • [07:39:45] <av500> ARM9 is armv5
  • [07:39:50] <mru> or v4
  • [07:39:51] <Radiao> same applies to ARM11 ?
  • [07:39:55] <mru> if it's a 9tdmi
  • [07:39:56] <av500> armv6
  • [07:44:04] <Radiao> I'm a bit confused now. If I see a debian for example and it says just "arm" - which arm is that for?
  • [07:44:15] <av500> armv5
  • [07:45:03] <Radiao> so it'd run on beagleboard?
  • [07:45:10] <av500> yes
  • [07:45:15] <av500> armv5 runs on armv7
  • [07:45:20] <av500> not vice versa
  • [07:46:07] <tasslehoff> hvaibhav: after fixing my typo all is well :)
  • [07:46:11] <Radiao> ok thank you . was a bit confused that ARM-x is very different to ARMv-x
  • [07:46:39] * fungus (4cafeb5d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.175.235.93) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  • [07:47:17] <Radiao> so when going back to my first question ... it applies not in the direction I asked, but in the other direction
  • [07:47:41] <av500> yes, that is more likely to work
  • [07:48:00] <av500> assuming that the kernel and hw support works on both boarsds
  • [07:48:02] * ynezz_ is now known as ynezz
  • [07:48:33] <mru> av500: it's possible to write armv5 code that doesn't run on armv7
  • [07:48:53] <mru> kerne's can't be moved around either
  • [07:49:07] <av500> mru: is debian that clever?
  • [07:49:08] <mru> they hardcode things like cache operations that differ
  • [07:49:19] <mru> av500: that would be fun
  • [07:50:06] <av500> Radiao: it would depend on your application which board you chose
  • [07:50:26] <Radiao> regarding the openembedded project -- the machine.conf for beagleboard has TARGET_ARCH = "arm" ... so it actually builds armv5?
  • [07:50:42] <mru> no
  • [07:50:49] <mru> it builds armv7 code for beagle
  • [07:50:57] <av500> i guess it mentions a cortex a8 somewhere
  • [07:52:21] <Radiao> oh yes, it says OMAP3 and TARGET_CC_ARCH = "-march=armv7-a -mtune=cortex-a8 -mfpu=neon ${ARM_FP_OPT}" -- so probably yes
  • [07:52:46] <av500> yes
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  • [08:04:05] <hvaibhav> tasslehoff: Thats great
  • [08:04:19] * florian_kc is now known as florian
  • [08:04:25] <tasslehoff> hvaibhav: my thoughts exactly ;)
  • [08:05:14] * marsh (73fc6807@gateway/web/freenode/ip.115.252.104.7) has joined #beagle
  • [08:08:20] <koen> ah, cortex-A15
  • [08:08:23] <mru> eagle
  • [08:08:41] * courville (~courville@archos.rain.fr) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  • [08:08:49] * mru is curious to see some specs for that bird
  • [08:09:21] <koen> now just wait for kingfisher specs to leak
  • [08:09:51] <av500> but it should be A-2 for "eagle"
  • [08:10:38] * courville (~courville@sac91-1-82-232-88-182.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #beagle
  • [08:11:12] <mru> whatever, I want the specs
  • [08:11:31] <mru> the real ones, not the marketing drivel that says it's an armv7
  • [08:13:53] <tasslehoff> XorA: I use your script to format my SD-card, and WinXP won't read the fat32 partitions created. Any theories on why?
  • [08:14:08] <av500> hmm
  • [08:14:33] <mru> you did it wrong
  • [08:14:37] <mru> or XorA did it wrong
  • [08:14:43] <mru> or winxp did it wrong
  • [08:15:44] <tasslehoff> mru: all of them good theories
  • [08:16:03] <av500> tasslehoff: can any non-XP OS read it?
  • [08:16:03] <mru> pastebin fdisk -l /dev/whatever
  • [08:17:07] <tasslehoff> mru: http://pastebin.ca/1936384
  • [08:17:26] <tasslehoff> av500: yes, Ubuntu & Angstrom does fine
  • [08:18:07] <av500> tasslehoff: XP wont read any of them or just the 2nd?
  • [08:18:26] <mru> did you format them?
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  • [08:18:46] <XorA> Im pretty sure I can read them in windows
  • [08:19:02] <mru> file -s /dev/sdb1
  • [08:19:04] <XorA> but Im windows 7 here
  • [08:19:38] * kulve (~kulve@humboldt.pingu.fi) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  • [08:19:51] <mru> did someone disconnect finland?
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  • [08:21:04] <tasslehoff> av500: not any of them. I tried doing just 2 fat32's, but that didn't help.
  • [08:21:43] <tasslehoff> hm. I have modified the script. I'll try the vanilla one :)
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  • [08:33:03] <av500> tasslehoff: added to tomi's tree
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  • [08:42:48] <mru> hey _roger_, I'm still waiting for those bug fixes
  • [08:43:46] <av500> mru: they are busy with the A15 compiler
  • [08:43:51] * Pradeep (41be8aca@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.190.138.202) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  • [08:44:32] <tomba> russ: yep, I applied the patch to my dss tree
  • [08:44:36] <mru> av500: TI?
  • [08:44:56] <mru> anyway, same compiler
  • [08:47:48] <av500> tomba: btw, if FCK_TO_PCK ratio cannot be met, why set it to 0 instead of reducing it by one an re-trying?
  • [08:48:28] <av500> tasslehoff: http://gitorious.org/linux-omap-dss2/linux/commit/00a84122fd2c1974f6dc79fce11a34154caab848
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  • [08:55:59] <tasslehoff> XorA: your script works, so it must be something I did when I made it create 4 partitions
  • [08:56:10] <tomba> av500: I can't remember =). Perhaps it was the easiest thing to do. And anyway, if you require certain ratio, and you don't get it, it doesn't help if you get a slightly higher ratio than the minimum.
  • [08:57:13] <av500> thats true
  • [08:57:29] <av500> it helps in my case where I have one kernel for 5 different displays
  • [08:58:46] <tomba> it's a bit hacky solution anyway, but I'm not sure what would be the best way to handle the fck-pck ratio
  • [08:59:03] <tomba> (best and easy =)
  • [09:02:29] <tasslehoff> hm. with my modified script, XP sees the first fat32, but not the one behind the ext3's
  • [09:03:14] <av500> why not do fat, fat, ext ,ext
  • [09:03:18] * courville (~courville@sac91-1-82-232-88-182.fbx.proxad.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  • [09:04:22] <marsh> av500 can you guid me for audio flinger
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  • [09:05:28] <tasslehoff> av500: I'll git that a shot.
  • [09:05:44] * thurbad (~nathan@2002:4c5b:3a:0:223:69ff:fe72:61cf) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  • [09:07:03] <tasslehoff> give, even
  • [09:11:10] <tasslehoff> mru: here's the "file -s" output. windows finds the first one, but not the second. http://pastebin.ca/1936400
  • [09:12:12] <mru> can you see the partition in the windows volume manager or whatever it's called
  • [09:12:14] <mru> ?
  • [09:12:33] <mru> the thing that lists all partitions, not only those with a recognised fs
  • [09:12:44] * davidc__ (~davidc__@S0106000f662a10a4.vc.shawcable.net) Quit (Quit: davidc__)
  • [09:14:59] <av500> settings->management->drive manangement or so....
  • [09:16:49] <tasslehoff> mru: yep. they are listed as healthy with no file system type
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  • [09:17:42] <tasslehoff> I changed the sfdisk-command. Perhaps some alignment issues of some sort.
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  • [09:32:02] <tasslehoff> What exactly are the requirements for the sdcard/bootpartition. Cylinders, Sectors and such. Will it work if I partition my sd in gparted, or will that break something?
  • [09:32:28] * mru calls koen rule #3
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  • [09:35:08] <tasslehoff> I should update a wiki?
  • [09:35:38] <av500> koen does not like wikis
  • [09:39:48] * mcgeagh (~mcgeagh@xbmc/staff/mcgeagh) has joined #beagle
  • [09:40:43] <mru> we need a list of wikis
  • [09:40:55] <mru> after a while there will be several such lists
  • [09:41:02] <mru> and someone can make a list of lists of wikis
  • [09:41:20] <av500> +1
  • [09:41:20] <mru> it's lists all the way down
  • [09:41:25] <mru> ask any lisp coder
  • [09:41:32] <av500> list coder?
  • [09:41:36] <mru> what's the cdr of your wiki?
  • [09:48:34] <XorA> tasslehoff: how about showing us your secret modifications :-)
  • [09:50:46] <av500> they are secret
  • [09:52:00] * Robin_Watts (~Javacat@91.84.113.3) has joined #beagle
  • [09:52:21] <Robin_Watts> More stupid questions I'm afraid guys... I'm trying to get angstrom up and running again on my beagleboard.
  • [09:53:28] <Robin_Watts> IS X-loader 1.4.4ss the latest ?
  • [09:53:39] <XorA> for beagle yes
  • [09:54:07] <Robin_Watts> OK. So when it turns on, it reads u-boot.bin from nand (U-Boot 2010.03-dirty)
  • [09:54:13] <Robin_Watts> Is that the latest for beagle too ?
  • [09:55:02] <XorA> sounds pretty recent, whether its the absolute latest I dont know
  • [09:55:27] <Robin_Watts> Then it identifies the board, tells me how much DRAM and NAND I have and says:
  • [09:55:44] <Robin_Watts> *** Warning - bad CRC or NAND, using default environment
  • [09:55:45] <tasslehoff> I thought it was the rules from http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/ :)
  • [09:56:12] <tasslehoff> XorA: good idea :)
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  • [09:56:56] <Robin_Watts> The problem is I can find lots of sites purporting to tell me how to set this up, but none of them seem to give the whole picture :(
  • [09:57:22] <av500> Robin_Watts: bad CRC or NAND, using default environment is OK
  • [09:57:30] <Robin_Watts> av500: Thanks.
  • [09:57:37] <av500> if you want to start from scratch, boot from SDcard and erase the nand
  • [09:57:47] <av500> how to boot from SD can be googled
  • [09:58:27] <Robin_Watts> av500: I've been trying to google and failing dismally. I find lots of half-truths etc.
  • [09:58:30] <tasslehoff> XorA: http://pastebin.ca/1936415
  • [09:58:33] * amitk is now known as amitk-afk
  • [09:59:01] <av500> Robin_Watts: http://elinux.org/BeagleBoardRecovery
  • [09:59:19] <Robin_Watts> I used narcissus to build me a distribution yesterday, but it doesn't appear to include a kernel...
  • [09:59:30] <Robin_Watts> Am I being dimmer than usual even?
  • [09:59:55] <av500> I dont know you usual dimness..
  • [10:00:04] <av500> how many candela are you?
  • [10:00:18] <XorA> tasslehoff: looks fine, maybe its just a limitation on windows
  • [10:00:19] <Robin_Watts> I measure my dimness in watts :)
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  • [10:03:28] <Robin_Watts> Should I have expected to find a kernel in the narcissus image ?
  • [10:03:44] * dm8tbr is now known as oh-dm8tbr
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  • [10:14:25] * Robin_Watts finds the kernel image, copies it to boot partition, and hopes...
  • [10:14:28] <Robin_Watts> thanks all!
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  • [10:24:59] <tasslehoff> XorA: yeah. I tried formatting in gparted instead, and windows still sees only 1 partition.
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  • [10:55:19] <tasslehoff> XorA: seems windows will only handle one partition on a removable medium
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  • [10:56:15] <av500> tasslehoff: that might be
  • [10:56:22] <av500> its the "removable" but
  • [10:56:25] <av500> its the "removable" bit :)
  • [10:56:46] <av500> MSC declared as removable behaves differently from one declares as "external drive"
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  • [11:13:02] <tasslehoff> "... it's a single bit in the device's device descriptor, the removable media bit (RMB). If you take away the RMB then Windows sees the drive as 'local disk' and multiple partitions work."
  • [11:13:06] <tasslehoff> oh joy :)
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  • [11:13:43] <jack> how to fixed "requires unavailable shared library com.example.will.never.exist"
  • [11:13:55] <jack> while installing a new apk file
  • [11:14:08] * jack is now known as Guest41113
  • [11:14:37] <Guest41113> how to fixed
  • [11:18:38] <tasslehoff> anyone ever seen a tool to toggle the RMB-bit in linux?
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  • [11:25:05] <mru> hexedit
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  • [11:33:05] <tasslehoff> mru: the bit is in the controller on the sd-card, so I guess it's not that easy
  • [11:33:14] <tasslehoff> my solution is: I don't support windows!
  • [11:41:42] <XorA> tasslehoff: its actually in the registry/driver, you can mess with them to switch it :-)
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  • [11:45:43] <tasslehoff> XorA: ok. I still stand by my decision ;)
  • [11:46:19] <XorA> tasslehoff: you could always get them to install virtualbox then re-assign the USB to it and run linux VM fullscreen
  • [11:46:39] <tasslehoff> XorA: that is the exact plan. I just exported a VM for them to use :)
  • [11:47:41] <XorA> hehe, we is genius
  • [11:48:06] <tasslehoff> :)
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  • [13:20:56] <koen> sakoman: .07 is the license change + few small patches
  • [13:21:10] <sakoman> koen: :-(
  • [13:21:21] <koen> sakoman: there was talk about fixing the omap test, dunno if that went into .07
  • [13:21:33] <sakoman> I'll try it anyway, perhaps a fix snuck in
  • [13:23:36] <av500> koen: no more license to kill for .007?
  • [13:24:00] * joeR (80f40909@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.244.9.9) has joined #beagle
  • [13:24:01] <koen> heh
  • [13:24:06] * joeR (80f40909@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.244.9.9) Quit (Client Quit)
  • [13:24:09] <mru> I can haz licence to troll?
  • [13:24:18] <av500> you was born with it
  • [13:24:19] <koen> does that need a license?
  • [13:25:26] * djlewis (~djlewis@75.15.67.41) has joined #beagle
  • [13:28:52] <mru> koen: can't I have one even if it's not needed?
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  • [13:37:36] <Crofton> what's the ip register?
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  • [13:37:44] <mru> r12
  • [13:37:46] <sli_> hi all
  • [13:38:03] <mru> caller-saved
  • [13:38:08] <mru> aka scratch register
  • [13:38:08] <sli_> trying to get the u-boot/usb working on the OTG.
  • [13:38:30] * maelcum|lap (~horst@188.111.54.34) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
  • [13:38:41] <Crofton> silly
  • [13:38:47] <mru> what is?
  • [13:38:56] <mru> it had a special meaning in some ancient abi
  • [13:39:01] <Crofton> calling a register two names :)
  • [13:39:08] <mru> and the name stuck in the gnu tools
  • [13:39:18] <mru> is it silly to call r13 sp too?
  • [13:39:19] <Crofton> yeah
  • [13:39:34] <Crofton> not sure yet :)
  • [13:39:54] <mru> sp and pc are so special that giving them special names makes sense
  • [13:40:16] <sli_> with last git version. I modified the include/configs/omap3_beagle.h : CONFIG_CMD_USB CONFIG_MUSB_HCD CONFIG_USB_CONFIG_TWL4030_USB OMACONFIG_USB_STORAGEP3
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  • [13:40:19] <mru> lr/r14 is less special but I still think the more descriptive name is deserved
  • [13:40:27] <Crofton> mru, agreed
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  • [13:40:48] <sli_> but when trying with "usb reset" I get "No Device found"
  • [13:40:53] * pcacjr (~pcacjr@unaffiliated/pcacjr) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  • [13:40:57] <sli_> did someone get it working
  • [13:43:41] <sli_> or even tried it ?
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  • [13:47:31] <sli_> I noticed that with the version of uboot that came with my BB rev C2 I got at init the message : MUSB: using High Speed. I wonder to which funtcion this mesg is related to ?
  • [13:48:04] <av500> i'd guess MUSB
  • [13:48:11] <ynezz> grep MUSB?
  • [13:48:38] <sjhill> MUSB is the name of the USB OTG controller
  • [13:49:15] <sjhill> it's just telling you what speed it configured itself for
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  • [13:52:29] <XeMa> hello all
  • [13:52:34] <XeMa> small question
  • [13:52:52] <av500> this small: . ?
  • [13:52:53] <XeMa> I generate the image of my file system
  • [13:52:56] <XeMa> lol
  • [13:52:58] <XeMa> sorry
  • [13:53:08] <XeMa> with mkjs.jffs2
  • [13:53:14] <XeMa> its size is 52mo
  • [13:53:18] <XeMa> I flash it
  • [13:53:21] <XeMa> boot on it
  • [13:53:39] <XeMa> and use the command "du -h /"
  • [13:53:45] <XeMa> and the size gets to 92mo
  • [13:54:22] <XeMa> the umcompression is done by whom ?
  • [13:54:27] <sli_> 52 m0 = size of compressed image ?
  • [13:54:32] <XeMa> yes
  • [13:54:41] <sjhill> the jffs2 layer does the uncompression
  • [13:54:44] <XeMa> ok
  • [13:54:52] <XeMa> and all is stored in RAM
  • [13:54:58] <XeMa> ?
  • [13:55:00] * mmadrigal (~mmadrigal@201.196.107.110) has joined #beagle
  • [13:55:11] <sli_> all = u mean only the journal
  • [13:55:32] <XeMa> I'm not familiar with the vocabulary
  • [13:55:33] <XeMa> :)
  • [13:55:59] <XeMa> the journal ---> files currently modified and not stored in the flash
  • [13:56:02] <XeMa> ?
  • [13:56:39] <sli_> I'm not sure. But also the index of files that jffs2 make at every startup
  • [13:57:05] <XeMa> I'm asking this question because I would like to know if I am going to have enough space on my flash when I integrate a new big library
  • [13:57:11] <sli_> anyway we must be aware that the fs is extensible.
  • [13:57:25] <sjhill> du may not be counting right
  • [13:57:46] <XeMa> so the thing is to add the size of the library to the size of the image compressed or uncompressed
  • [13:57:47] <XeMa> ?
  • [13:57:49] <sli_> strip it :D
  • [13:57:49] <sjhill> your only concern is whether the image you created fits in your flash when writing it
  • [13:57:57] <XeMa> yes :)
  • [13:58:05] <av500> and you see that before writing
  • [13:58:05] <sjhill> don't worry about du
  • [13:58:06] <XeMa> sjhill: yes
  • [13:58:48] <sli_> +1
  • [13:58:58] <XeMa> Ok so the size of the compressed rootfs + the size of the stripped library
  • [13:59:05] <sjhill> right
  • [13:59:10] <XeMa> that is what will be on the flash
  • [13:59:14] <XeMa> ok great
  • [13:59:16] <sjhill> whatever your output from mkfs.jffs2 has to fit in your flash
  • [13:59:36] <sjhill> let the kernel worry about the rest
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  • [13:59:49] <XeMa> and is their a way to know how much space the fs is going to take in RAM ?
  • [13:59:59] <XeMa> sjhill: that I do well :)
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  • [14:24:10] <sli_> Nobody tried uboot/usb disk on host ? :'(
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  • [15:21:46] <jkridner|work> good morning all
  • [15:22:12] <mru> morning jkridner|work
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  • [15:23:19] <av500> jkridner|work: gm
  • [15:23:26] <av500> so you are promoting windows now
  • [15:23:35] <jkridner|work> so it seems. :)
  • [15:23:49] <jkridner|work> more like Microsoft is promoting BeagleBoard though.
  • [15:23:51] <jkridner|work> :)
  • [15:23:58] <djlewis> gm jkridner|work
  • [15:24:10] <jkridner|work> hi djlewis, av500, mru.
  • [15:26:48] <jkridner|work> so, was the e-mail too much of an 'ad' for the list?
  • [15:28:06] <av500> nah
  • [15:28:24] <mru> my subconscious filtered it out
  • [15:29:06] <av500> and I made a note not to ge there
  • [15:29:07] <emeb> adblocker for brain?
  • [15:29:10] <av500> go there
  • [15:29:17] <mru> emeb: apparently
  • [15:29:26] <mru> it happens all the time
  • [15:29:31] <av500> what email? :)
  • [15:29:36] <emeb> does it tell you there's an update everytime you wake up in the morning?
  • [15:29:41] <jkridner|work> :)
  • [15:29:42] <mru> av500: exactly
  • [15:29:56] <mru> emeb: no, it installs them while I sleep
  • [15:30:12] * emeb wishes firefox adblocker wasn't so noisy
  • [15:30:19] <mru> noisy?
  • [15:30:28] <mru> what have you done to it?
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  • [15:30:36] <av500> emeb: mayne there is a blocker for the noise?
  • [15:30:41] <av500> maybe
  • [15:30:42] <emeb> poked it in a ticklish spot?
  • [15:30:44] <mru> adblockblock
  • [15:30:52] <av500> adblocknoiseblock
  • [15:31:35] * av500 starts to find FF to be more annoying than acroreader
  • [15:32:02] <emeb> once you can read email with it you know its all over...
  • [15:32:16] <emeb> oh wait...
  • [15:32:30] <av500> adblocker can read emails?
  • [15:32:37] <emeb> :)
  • [15:32:50] <djlewis> gm emeb
  • [15:32:51] <jkridner|work> rsalveti: just read your blog post. too bad about MLO, but looking forward to a lot of new Ubuntu ARM users. :)
  • [15:32:55] <emeb> gm djlewis
  • [15:33:06] <emeb> thx for the link to the scope memory thread
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  • [15:33:14] <rsalveti> jkridner|work: yep :-)
  • [15:33:25] <emeb> that helped reset my expectations somewhat
  • [15:33:27] <djlewis> emeb: cool
  • [15:33:28] <rsalveti> jkridner: good thing is that now at least the daily image is fixed :-)
  • [15:33:29] <mru> ubuntu users are annoying
  • [15:33:35] <rsalveti> jkridner|work: ^
  • [15:33:44] <mru> they always demand a tutorial for everything
  • [15:33:59] <jkridner|work> mru: can you replace that with "users|customers|noobs are annoying"?
  • [15:34:06] <mru> if you don't want to think, you should be using a mac
  • [15:34:13] <av500> emeb: scopememwhat?
  • [15:34:15] <mru> then the mighty jobs will do the thinking for you
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  • [15:34:38] <mru> jkridner|work: anything ubuntu related is annoying
  • [15:34:40] <emeb> av500: djlewis found a thread on eevblog forum about mem length in cheap DSOs
  • [15:34:48] * jpsaman (~jpsaman@videolan/developer/jpsaman) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
  • [15:34:54] <av500> and it's like ..... small?
  • [15:35:02] <emeb> clarified what they _actually_ do vs what mkt materials lead one to believe
  • [15:35:06] <av500> url?
  • [15:35:18] <emeb> see earlier in this day's log
  • [15:35:28] <av500> emeb: the display is 320pixel wide, so I guess that's the mem lenght :)
  • [15:35:34] <emeb> http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1189.0
  • [15:35:41] <emeb> av500: not that bad
  • [15:35:52] <emeb> but the 1Msample mem is only for slow sweep rates
  • [15:35:56] <djlewis> yep, you get to pan it
  • [15:36:18] <emeb> at top sample rates you get like 8k or 4k depending on brand of DSO
  • [15:37:41] <emeb> also some interesting discussion of non-realtime sampling behavior.
  • [15:37:51] * djlewis stayed up late playing with his new dso at his new workbench :)
  • [15:38:02] <emeb> I thought you left it at work?
  • [15:38:07] <emeb> (the dso)
  • [15:38:08] * raster (~raster@enlightenment/developer/raster) Quit (Quit: Gettin' stinky!)
  • [15:38:15] <djlewis> no, the dig camera
  • [15:38:20] <emeb> ah
  • [15:38:46] <djlewis> my webcam wants more light than I can provide aside from blowing the roof off.
  • [15:38:59] <av500> emeb: ah, ic
  • [15:39:09] <emeb> av500: makes sense?
  • [15:39:17] <av500> yeah
  • [15:39:40] <emeb> you don't get super features in a $400 scope...
  • [15:39:48] <av500> right
  • [15:39:57] <emeb> also liked the bit about how they're overclocking the ADCs
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  • [15:40:13] <emeb> and Rigol sands the PN off some chips... :P
  • [15:41:23] <emeb> going afk for a bit...
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  • [15:57:50] * djlewis is liking his DSO, http://imagebin.org/113383
  • [15:58:10] <djlewis> now to get the BB out and play with some I/O
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  • [16:06:57] <jazy> please can some one tell me how to use OTG as USB HOST in Beagleboard version 7, am trying this from last three days :(
  • [16:08:00] <av500> which cable?
  • [16:09:02] * kmargar (~markos@athedsl-119022.home.otenet.gr) has joined #beagle
  • [16:09:28] <jazy> I want to use OTG port as USB HOST and i have connected miniA OTG to BB an USB STD miniA
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  • [16:13:07] <jazy> any body there ?
  • [16:13:52] <Kmus> yea, but I`ve no idea how to help you..
  • [16:17:25] * jazy (79f09804@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.240.152.4) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  • [16:18:48] <jkridner|work> anyone look at http://bit.ly/9ahYvw ?
  • [16:18:55] <jkridner|work> (Qt flickering issue)
  • [16:19:55] <jkridner|work> guess that is with the Symbian folks.
  • [16:20:31] <av500> wow, cool flicker
  • [16:21:20] <emeb> yoiks!
  • [16:21:24] <emeb> howdeydodat?
  • [16:22:14] <Kmus> Its the old classic double buffer technique
  • [16:22:30] <Kmus> there will still be "tearing" when viewing animated stuff
  • [16:23:44] <Kmus> Plus the fix requires more memory and CPU time to flip buffers (unless its just a matter of altering a pointer)
  • [16:23:57] <emeb> errr - that's more than 'tearing'
  • [16:24:02] <av500> +1
  • [16:24:10] <av500> it looks very strange
  • [16:24:11] <Kmus> I mean the fix will result in tearing
  • [16:24:19] <ynezz> nope, I don't see that on Linux
  • [16:24:20] <mru> Kmus: if it's not just swapping pointer, it's not proper double-buffering
  • [16:24:21] <av500> emeb: but what could be is that you see the "composition" there
  • [16:24:31] <Kmus> mru - true
  • [16:24:37] <av500> which should be hidden in the off screen buffer
  • [16:24:39] <emeb> av500: ah - they're drawing to the live buffer
  • [16:24:45] <av500> yes
  • [16:24:51] <av500> into the one buffer maybe :)
  • [16:25:02] <emeb> got their pointers swapped?
  • [16:25:04] <Kmus> Anyone a URL to a video? couldn't find one in the short browse i did
  • [16:25:09] <av500> had the guy done a better cam job instead of the pan on the BB one could see better....
  • [16:25:16] <Kmus> lol
  • [16:25:23] <av500> Kmus: /tmp2/attachment-0001.mp4
  • [16:25:23] <jkridner|work> http://developer.symbian.org/pipermail/wild-ducks/attachments/20100908/56fecc57/attachment-0001.mp4 works for me
  • [16:25:37] <jkridner|work> anyway, it is pretty simple to see what the problem is....
  • [16:25:45] <av500> symbian is
  • [16:25:51] <emeb> lol
  • [16:25:51] <Kmus> av500 : just need access to your machine now ;)
  • [16:25:58] <av500> you dont have /tmp2?
  • [16:26:19] <Kmus> na, just /tmp
  • [16:26:32] <av500> Kmus: ah
  • [16:26:34] <av500> upgrade!
  • [16:26:49] * jkridner|work wonders if /tmp26 + /tmp26 = /tmp54 is funny, but I don't really get that joke.
  • [16:26:55] <mru> it's probably being stupid and wiping the screen blank before redrawing everything
  • [16:26:56] <Kmus> apt-get install tmp2 doesn`t work :(
  • [16:27:05] <jkridner|work> nor do I understand how to refer to myself in the 3rd person.
  • [16:27:28] <av500> mru: it could also be VRFB in which case read and write direction are not the same and might give more fancy effects
  • [16:27:29] <Kmus> The video is hard to see but I`m noticing corruption as well - unless thats due to the more on-screen work, which technically all GUI draws should be in their own buffer, with a final stamp down on the display back buffer
  • [16:27:49] <av500> Kmus: if you do db, you dont need the final stamp down
  • [16:27:57] <mru> av500: whatever it is, a properly vsynced doublebuffering would fix it
  • [16:28:01] <av500> mru: sure
  • [16:28:12] <Kmus> Yea, as far as we can say that it will fix it :)
  • [16:28:14] <av500> its not rocket surgery
  • [16:28:29] <Kmus> no, did those things in assembly on a Amiga in 1989 :P
  • [16:28:31] <av500> jkridner|work: take this irc log and attach it to the bug report :)
  • [16:29:30] <Kmus> good idea lol, just make sure you keep all the lines.. give someone something to read
  • [16:29:30] <emeb> aaiiiee - another Amiga refugee
  • [16:29:46] <Kmus> Yea, spent a youth coding that thing :P
  • [16:29:47] <av500> anyway, I can understand why nobody wants to fix this: http://developer.symbian.org/oss/MCL/sf/adapt/beagleboard/raw-rev/161f6b2f6990
  • [16:29:52] <mru> emeb: at least he's not (apparently) using them _now_
  • [16:30:05] <av500> TInt....
  • [16:30:17] <av500> mru: like other people :)
  • [16:30:46] * kmargar is now known as markos_
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  • [16:35:43] <ynezz> I think, that on books about s60 development, should be warnings like on tabaco
  • [16:36:06] <mru> gives you bad teeth?
  • [16:36:20] <av500> eye cancer
  • [16:36:27] <ynezz> kind of
  • [16:36:28] <Kmus> "S60 is addictive, don't start"
  • [16:36:42] <mru> hair loss from all the pulling?
  • [16:37:16] <koen> I have some brainbleach leftover if you need some
  • [16:40:03] <av500> "...When a User buffer is registered its iFree member becomes EFalse and Deregister sets it back to ETrue..."
  • [16:40:06] <av500> how etrue....
  • [16:41:31] * Sog (7218005e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.114.24.0.94) has joined #beagle
  • [16:42:38] <Kmus> eTerrible coding..
  • [16:42:47] <av500> eTrue!
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  • [16:46:26] <ynezz> lets try PSGroove on some Symbian phone
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  • [16:48:35] <sog_> Dear all, can I ask beagleboard biz question here?
  • [16:48:44] <Kmus> Rite, time for home.. need to go push the limits of copper chip on my Amiga
  • [16:49:07] <av500> sog_: just ask, dont ask to ask to ask
  • [16:49:11] * Kmus is now known as Kmus|Home
  • [16:49:53] <sog_> I would like promote beagleboard for Taiwan user. I have Beagleboard.tw.
  • [16:50:07] * Ceriand|work (~Ceriand@unaffiliated/ceriand) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  • [16:50:19] <sog_> And I make a wifi/bt and robot extention kit for beagleboard.
  • [16:50:20] <jkridner|work> great. what is your plan?
  • [16:50:43] <sog_> I do lots of trainging course for beagleboard and andorid.
  • [16:50:50] <sog_> But I need more and more...
  • [16:51:01] <jkridner|work> sog_: the current policy is not to sell the BeagleBoard for commercial/production use, but to rely on clones for that (and to support people bringing up clones).
  • [16:51:21] <jkridner|work> more and more boards? or more and more what?
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  • [16:51:29] <sog_> Bealgeboard...
  • [16:51:51] <sog_> I hope I can do my education servie for colleage and Univ.
  • [16:52:12] <sog_> But they ask me also provide beagleboard to sell them.
  • [16:52:24] <sog_> I ask TI check with beagleboard guy..
  • [16:52:38] <jkridner|work> sog_: I'm with TI.
  • [16:52:44] <sog_> Cool~~
  • [16:52:59] <sog_> I check with Taiwan U Programming windows.
  • [16:53:00] <sog_> Jeffery
  • [16:53:06] <sog_> Dr. Jeffery. :)
  • [16:53:43] * djlewis (~djlewis@75.15.67.41) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
  • [16:54:15] <sog_> I hope I can buy beagleboard . I can support customer by my self.
  • [16:54:16] <jkridner|work> sog_: cool.
  • [16:54:43] <sog_> I hope I can be re-seller for beagleboard.
  • [16:54:45] <jkridner|work> sog_: but you are looking to be a distributor to enable that?
  • [16:54:55] <sog_> YES!!
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  • [16:55:35] <jkridner|work> sog_: we are having challenges keeping inventory at distributors, so we aren't really looking to add more distributors...
  • [16:56:06] <jkridner|work> but we do get some interest to add resellers who work well with the open source community...
  • [16:56:08] <av500> sog_: you might looking into making your own BBs if you have a high demand
  • [16:56:16] <jkridner|work> I think the liquidware guys are a nice example there.
  • [16:56:31] <jkridner|work> sog_: I was going to suggest the exact same as av500.
  • [16:56:38] * Zimans (~Nate@static-96-252-38-242.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  • [16:56:42] <jkridner|work> we'll even support you in building your own.
  • [16:57:01] <sog_> I would like have around 50 pcs fist..
  • [16:57:07] <jkridner|work> Embest in China did some changes to the design for the Devkit8000.
  • [16:57:25] <jkridner|work> well, I think the distributors limit to about 25.
  • [16:57:29] <sog_> Due I am focus on education..
  • [16:57:48] <jkridner|work> the TI university program may be able to help some there.
  • [16:57:51] <sog_> So I just follow beagleboard.org plan..
  • [16:58:25] * courville (~courville@archos.rain.fr) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  • [16:58:30] <sog_> I work with some customer omap3530 board.
  • [16:58:36] <sog_> But for education ..
  • [16:58:44] <sog_> I just would like use beagleboard.
  • [16:58:57] <sog_> Due to lots of open source resource..
  • [16:59:17] <jkridner|work> isn't there an existing distributor you can work with?
  • [16:59:28] <sog_> No...
  • [16:59:34] <jkridner|work> or can you recommend a larger distributor.
  • [16:59:35] <jkridner|work> ?
  • [16:59:36] <sog_> They don't want sell bealgeboard..
  • [16:59:46] <sog_> Due too small qty...
  • [16:59:47] <jkridner|work> we have a minimum order quantity of AT LEAST 250 boards.
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  • [17:00:10] <jkridner|work> we just can't make the boards affordable if we aren't making 1,000s at a time.
  • [17:00:33] <jkridner|work> (they would be a lot *more* affordable if we were making 100,000s at a time)
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  • [17:00:38] <av500> sog_: why cant you buy 50 from e.g. digikey?
  • [17:00:51] <jkridner|work> av500: digikey caps at 25.
  • [17:00:59] <sog_> hmm
  • [17:01:00] <sog_> yes
  • [17:01:08] <av500> jkridner|work: order twice :)
  • [17:01:09] <sog_> jk, I would like show you what I did :)
  • [17:01:11] <jkridner|work> :)
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  • [17:03:07] <sog_> http://picasaweb.google.com.tw/sog.yang/BbmouseSnapshot?authkey=Gv1sRgCLzaqqynu4nFgAE#
  • [17:03:12] <sog_> This is what I did.
  • [17:03:25] <sog_> It's better for education and poromotion.
  • [17:03:33] <sog_> and promotion.
  • [17:03:42] <sog_> I use WL1731..
  • [17:04:15] <av500> what does it do?
  • [17:06:35] <av500> sog_: these are servo connectors?
  • [17:08:32] <av500> http://www.slideshare.net/tick/2010-coscup-beandroid
  • [17:08:37] <av500> as seen here....
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  • [17:09:31] <Crofton> koen, can narcissus build Angstrom 2010 images?
  • [17:10:01] <jkridner|work> good find av500.
  • [17:10:51] <koen> Crofton: it can
  • [17:11:07] <koen> Crofton: select 'next' as release option in the advanced section
  • [17:11:18] <koen> Crofton: the eglibc one
  • [17:11:18] <Crofton> cool
  • [17:12:19] <emeb> what's good about Angstrom 2010 vs what's std (unstable)?
  • [17:12:31] <Crofton> gcc 4.5.x
  • [17:12:40] <Crofton> although that may not be good :)
  • [17:12:51] * emeb was just thinking...
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  • [17:29:58] <russ> I feel like it'd be fun to make a school house rock video, how a patch makes it to mainline (kinda like how a bill becomes a law)
  • [17:30:33] <russ> maybe I could reuse the original video and just change the audio
  • [17:32:11] <wmat> I'm just a patch.
  • [17:32:12] <wmat> Yes, I'm only a patch.
  • [17:32:13] <wmat> And I'm sitting here in Linus' batch.
  • [17:33:41] <wmat> russ: I think you're onto something
  • [17:34:07] <wmat> http://www.schoolhouserock.tv/Bill.html
  • [17:34:41] <wmat> it's eerie how applicable a lot of those lyrics could be to a patch
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  • [17:54:05] <koen> Crofton: if you can wait a few hours, the next-eglibc feeds will get a ton of updates
  • [17:54:12] <Crofton> k
  • [17:54:23] <Crofton> I am talking b7500af1 about this
  • [17:54:32] <Crofton> I can make OE builds work :)
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  • [18:47:15] <foobaz_> Hey does anyone know of a small (round 9") cheap dvi lcd screen? I need it for a project that I am currently working on.
  • [18:48:31] <ynezz> check those from lilliput
  • [18:49:46] <ynezz> if you're from EU http://www.lilliputuk.com/
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  • [19:56:31] <djlewis_> prpplague: howdy
  • [19:57:32] <prpplague> djlewis_: hey bud
  • [19:58:28] <djlewis_> prpplague: is trainer going to a revision or are you planning sticking with it as is?
  • [19:58:34] <djlewis_> just asking
  • [20:00:30] <prpplague> djlewis_: as is unless there is a reason
  • [20:00:34] <prpplague> djlewis_: is there one?
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  • [20:01:52] <djlewis_> no, its just my adversion to buying hardware or installing software of first rev. :)
  • [20:03:45] <prpplague> djlewis_: trainer is pretty solid, we have over 10 beagle board adapters right now, trainer is the slowest selling one
  • [20:04:00] <prpplague> which is odd, i would have figured it would have sold more
  • [20:04:48] <djlewis_> too darn many DIY's hang out here ;)
  • [20:05:10] <prpplague> hehe
  • [20:05:52] <prpplague> djlewis_: we have the showdog and an lvds boards that we've done in small qty for customers, if there is something specific you are looking for let me know
  • [20:06:27] <djlewis_> cool, thanks but that is not the present motivation to the question.
  • [20:06:43] <killring> it's probably a function of cost... it is a little pricey (not saying it's in any way overpriced, just noting it isn't cheap)
  • [20:06:57] <djlewis_> I think my plans from last year would require two XM's to achieve
  • [20:07:56] <djlewis_> and I note it is not of poor or low quality either. prpplague and his crew do great design work.
  • [20:08:20] <killring> absolutely... it looks very well done
  • [20:08:28] <prpplague> djlewis_: thanks
  • [20:08:51] <prpplague> killring: yea, doing the level shifting on the hobby end for 1.8v to 3.3v can get really expensive
  • [20:09:17] <prpplague> killring: we calculated that the average hobby person would spend double the cost of the trainer to do it by themselves
  • [20:09:25] <killring> I get it... but I also know where a lot of diy types are coming from budget-wise
  • [20:09:34] <prpplague> indeed
  • [20:09:54] <prpplague> killring: i spend alot of time on the avr, sparkfun and arduino channels
  • [20:10:04] <prpplague> killring: it is a whole different market
  • [20:10:06] <killring> I see you there :-)
  • [20:10:08] <killring> yep
  • [20:10:15] <killring> I've got a foot in both
  • [20:10:20] <prpplague> killring: we just hoped that the trainer would be a good bridge
  • [20:10:41] <killring> would eliminating the 328 allow you to reduce costs much?
  • [20:11:11] <djlewis_> keep a channel open to connect a arduino or whatever..
  • [20:12:22] <killring> for me, I know that the #1 thing I want in a prototype board is simply to get the expansion lines from the bb to a .1" prototype area since that's what I tend to work with on my own diy stuff
  • [20:12:33] <djlewis_> most interface types I run up to in my robotics quest is serial and I2c
  • [20:14:17] <djlewis_> killring: Is there a demand for .1" and a variety of solder pads with solder points to add soic or other ic's?
  • [20:14:21] <djlewis_> do I make any sense?
  • [20:14:50] <killring> you do... I don't know that there's too much demand beyond just getting to a .1" breakout
  • [20:14:51] <djlewis_> I am seeing breakout boards with many sized ic pads in place
  • [20:15:25] <killring> I think people who live in the hardware realm underestimate how much the low end/entry level hobbyists hate working with smd
  • [20:15:50] <djlewis_> Hey! are you talking to me ? ;)
  • [20:15:55] * Electric_Monk hopes his Beagleboard arrives tomorrow
  • [20:16:24] <killring> to do smd properly, it puts you into an entirely new category and cost of tools
  • [20:16:57] * jkridner|work wonders if a MakerBot could be used to perform SMD assembly. :)
  • [20:17:21] <Electric_Monk> I was planning to do some SMD stuff for my project too...not looking forward to it. The most I did so far was an 8 pin sensor, and for my project it'll be a 100 pin DVI decoder :P
  • [20:17:22] <killring> that's only part of the problem
  • [20:17:47] <Electric_Monk> My dad worked at a Philips subsidiary when SMD was first being introduced, they had ladies on the prototyping lab soldering by hand, that gave him a healthy dislike for it
  • [20:17:54] <killring> with smd, you've got boards to make or have made, reflow, troubleshooting, etc.
  • [20:18:04] <Electric_Monk> Apparently he had a board with a CPU, RAM, etc. all surface mount. It didn't work unless you pressed the CPU down with your finger :P
  • [20:18:11] <killring> with .1", you run down to radio shack and buy a protoboard for $2
  • [20:19:05] <killring> I totally get why the industry loves smd and it makes a ton of technical and financial sense, but for hobbyists not so much
  • [20:19:56] <Electric_Monk> BGA seems like the real killer too
  • [20:19:59] <Electric_Monk> SMD inconvenience squared.
  • [20:20:04] <killring> yup
  • [20:20:26] * djlewis_ is gonna buy these for doing his smd work :)
  • [20:20:29] <djlewis_> http://www.caufields.com/browseproducts/Coke-Bottle-Glasses.html
  • [20:20:42] <hatten||> get the bow tie too
  • [20:20:49] <Electric_Monk> Haha
  • [20:20:53] * Electric_Monk always fancied trying the toaster oven thing
  • [20:21:01] <killring> silly as it may sound, I think a through hole arm proc with (obviously) very limited i/o could be huge in the hobbyist market
  • [20:21:04] <hatten||> I just use a hotplate..
  • [20:21:19] <djlewis_> I eat hot sauce and breathe on it
  • [20:21:25] <killring> lol
  • [20:22:15] <Electric_Monk> hatten||: I thought about it
  • [20:22:32] <Electric_Monk> But my PCB toner transfering by clothes iron is so hit and miss that I thought doing SMD like that may be similarly random :P
  • [20:22:52] <Electric_Monk> The toner transferring bit is the bit I hate, I wish I could get it more reliable.
  • [20:23:04] <hatten||> yeah you probably want some sort of temp monitoring and/or control
  • [20:23:08] <djlewis_> there is a lot on the net about optimizing your electric skillet
  • [20:23:43] <djlewis_> yes I am loking at that too as an option
  • [20:23:45] <djlewis_> looking
  • [20:25:55] <hatten||> I agree though, killring, a DIP ARM core would probably become very popular
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  • [20:26:05] <killring> *huge* imo
  • [20:26:21] <hatten||> afaik the closest thing is the propeller
  • [20:26:23] <hatten||> haha, that too
  • [20:26:29] <killring> that said, the beagleboard is a huge step in the right direction of making the arm more accessible
  • [20:27:16] <hatten||> sure, at least the embedded linux part
  • [20:27:22] <hatten||> cheap STM32 devkits are easy to find
  • [20:27:22] <killring> yep
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  • [20:28:07] <Electric_Monk> I've always wondered why there wasn't a throughhole ARM of some sort myself
  • [20:28:12] <Electric_Monk> I think the TiniARM people maybe make one
  • [20:28:17] <killring> but for right now, most of my hardware expansion projects will remain on the avr side just because it's so cheap and easy to work with
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  • [20:28:36] <killring> if I screw up, I'm usually out no more than a few bucks so I can afford to be fearless
  • [20:28:38] <hatten||> indeed.. tried the XMegas?
  • [20:28:39] <Electric_Monk> They do a few 40 pin IC shaped, I bought one of their 2x16 (I think it is) upright boards
  • [20:28:41] <prpplague> there were a number of arm7 devices that were qfp , most notable the sharp/nxp sharp series
  • [20:28:50] <Electric_Monk> (to use in a weather station, one of my many unfinished projects)
  • [20:29:11] <killring> dip is the package that hobbyists want
  • [20:29:36] <prpplague> killring: which is why TCT designed the hammer
  • [20:29:46] <prpplague> killring: problem is that it never sold very well
  • [20:30:18] * djlewis_ has to replace his weather station, obsolete and cant get parts anymore.
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  • [20:30:58] <Electric_Monk> djlewis_: Mine is all home made, so bits still don't exist. I have an anemometer ( but it's not even in service and I'm tempted to replace it with an ultrasonic one), half finished rain gauge, half working sensor board
  • [20:30:58] * awesome__ (9206b924@gateway/web/freenode/ip.146.6.185.36) has joined #beagle
  • [20:31:23] <Electric_Monk> My sensor board has mistakes because I forget stuff my dad tells me (he's an actual electronics engineer, I'm just a software engineer with a keen interest)
  • [20:31:31] <awesome__> hi everyone, i'm trying to find a way to hook up an LCD to a beagle board. it seems like i need an expansion, but i can't find it anywhere for sale. suggestions?
  • [20:31:31] <killring> prplague: did they have a standardized distro for it?
  • [20:31:39] <djlewis_> Electric_Monk: I been using a commercial LaCrosse ws2310 for many years but worn out two
  • [20:31:45] <hatten||> killring: worked with the XMegas? the AVR32s?
  • [20:31:59] <emeb> why does everyone fear the SMD so much?
  • [20:32:02] <prpplague> killring: they(we) had support for both buildroot and OE
  • [20:32:18] <emeb> I find it nicer than thru-hole assy
  • [20:32:25] <killring> hatten: I've looked at the xmegas and decided to just jump up to the bb for the heavier lifting :-)
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  • [20:32:42] <djlewis_> Electric_Monk: I have wind instruments, just need to replace guts ( electronics)
  • [20:33:00] <killring> embed: the cost and skills are a higher barrier to entry
  • [20:33:24] * djlewis_ is fine with the larger smd stuff :)
  • [20:33:25] <killring> I've done a tiny bit of smd work and one thing becomes immediately obvious: I don't have all the right tools to do it properly
  • [20:33:28] <prpplague> killring: we are planning to reintroduce the Hammer if we get time
  • [20:33:28] <emeb> killring: cost isn't an issue. Skills can be acquired with a bit of practice.
  • [20:33:39] <prpplague> we;d like to move the existing stock
  • [20:33:48] <emeb> equipment: magnifier, tweezers, fine-tip iron.
  • [20:33:49] <killring> cost of *tools*
  • [20:33:54] <djlewis_> emeb: hard to stick them on perfboard
  • [20:34:08] * topfs2 (~topfs2@xbmc/staff/topfs2) has joined #beagle
  • [20:34:11] <killring> and supporting hardware such as protoboards
  • [20:34:34] <killring> smd forces you into an entirely different cost structure vs. through hole
  • [20:34:34] <emeb> djlewis_: yes - it helps to have a PCB built
  • [20:34:38] <hatten||> killring: haha ok, can't blame you.. but I really appreciate the XMegas and the new software framework
  • [20:34:43] <djlewis_> gotta have a translater board to work with
  • [20:34:54] <emeb> killring: what's this different cost structure you keep talking about?
  • [20:35:02] <Electric_Monk> I've noticed a lot of hobbyists, once they start doing SMD, they really go all out preferring it for everything they can. I did wonder if it gets easier with practice :)
  • [20:35:05] * djlewis_ got some 8-pin to .1" boards
  • [20:35:12] <emeb> Electric_Monk: Yes.
  • [20:35:14] <hatten||> it does, Electric_Monk
  • [20:35:17] * awozniak (~awozniak@adsl-76-205-222-173.dsl.snlo01.sbcglobal.net) has joined #beagle
  • [20:35:47] <emeb> The main thing is that doing a PCB takes a bit longer.
  • [20:35:58] <djlewis_> parts stock would require LOTS LESS space ;)
  • [20:36:03] <killring> emeb: for example http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/categories.php?c=20
  • [20:36:15] <Electric_Monk> For my first SMD project (the DVI to LCD panel to use with the beagle) it's all 0.5mm, I was considering just using SMD for the parts I had to (HDMI header, FPC header, IC) and using through-hole for resistors/etc., but I'm in two minds...
  • [20:36:15] <emeb> not as much oppty for stream-of-consciousness engineering
  • [20:36:22] <killring> working with $2 parts suddenly jumps to $10-20 for trivial things
  • [20:36:32] <Electric_Monk> djlewis_: Haha, that's a good point. I have never figured out a way to store my parts reasonably :P
  • [20:36:33] <Electric_Monk> Just a big mess.
  • [20:36:41] <killring> because you either have to buy a kit, buy a board, or make your own
  • [20:37:11] <killring> through hole is an absolute commodity and trivial to work with
  • [20:37:11] <emeb> killring: or go for a hybrid approach w/ adapters.
  • [20:37:15] <djlewis_> I was trying to place my parts bins on my new workbench but it would crowd mw out :(
  • [20:37:27] <killring> the adapters cost money... some of them pretty serious money
  • [20:37:40] <emeb> killring: but the commodity nature of thru-hole is drying up as more parts are SMD only.
  • [20:37:51] <emeb> and the community solution to that is to whine, rather than adapt
  • [20:38:00] <killring> emeb: I don't disagree that the industry is moving
  • [20:38:07] <killring> ... has moved, even
  • [20:38:08] <awesome__> i'm trying to find a way to hook up an LCD to a beagle board. it seems like i need an expansion, but i can't find it anywhere for sale. suggestions?
  • [20:38:17] <djlewis_> boohoo :'(
  • [20:38:22] <emeb> killring: so SMD is a passing fad to you?
  • [20:38:40] <killring> emeb: not at all. again, I totally get why the industry has gone that way
  • [20:38:53] <djlewis_> awesome__: I seen one recently
  • [20:39:10] <awesome__> where?
  • [20:39:11] <killring> I'm talking purely about the hobbyist market... it is resisting
  • [20:39:26] <emeb> killring: sorry - misread above - double negative got me :)
  • [20:39:29] <djlewis_> trying to think of the company
  • [20:39:46] <awesome__> was it specialcomp.com? they sell in a full kit, but i only need like 2 things from the kit
  • [20:39:49] <hatten||> in a few years, we'll all sit here and curse the PoP and LGA/BGA technology
  • [20:39:49] <hatten||> :)
  • [20:39:59] <djlewis_> awesome__: yes
  • [20:40:11] <killring> and when the through hole market disappears (which I do believe it will at some point) that will not be good for the hobbyist market unless the cost structure to do smd changes for hobbyists
  • [20:40:31] <killring> the parts aren't the problem, it's everything that goes along with the parts
  • [20:40:35] <awesome__> yea i kinda only need like the expansion that's it
  • [20:40:36] <emeb> killring: what do you see as the % increase in cost for thru-hole -> smd?
  • [20:40:39] <djlewis_> awesome__: ask here for those two things
  • [20:41:08] <djlewis_> awesome__: define expansion. You mean header?
  • [20:41:09] <killring> emeb: anywhere from a multiple (doing it cheaply) to an order of magnitude (doing it right)
  • [20:41:15] <awesome__> i did, said they only sell in a full kit
  • [20:41:26] <awesome__> https://specialcomp.com/beagleboard/BeagleLCD2_l.PNG
  • [20:41:31] <awesome__> i need the expansion board
  • [20:41:34] <djlewis_> oh
  • [20:41:35] <emeb> my own view is that the cost to entry is pretty low (equipment), but the extra costs/time of PCBs is a downside
  • [20:41:38] <awesome__> i have the board and i have the screen, i just need to connect them together
  • [20:41:43] <awesome__> unless you have another suggestion
  • [20:41:52] <killring> emeb: that's part of the cost I'm talking about
  • [20:42:30] <emeb> but with places like BatchPCB selling custom PCB fab services for $2.50/inch2 you're not too far out of line
  • [20:42:31] <djlewis_> awesome__: did you see the parts numbers and vendors in the BBSRM
  • [20:42:56] * jkridner1 (~jason@c-98-250-141-144.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) has joined #beagle
  • [20:42:56] <killring> for my stuff, I breadboard everything first which is free once one has however many breadboards are needed
  • [20:43:10] <djlewis_> emeb: yes, we could easily make our own smd to .1 adatpters with them
  • [20:43:11] * katier (~katierh@nat/ti/x-noicmrqthlaytjus) Quit ()
  • [20:43:15] <emeb> so the SMD projects that I do typically cost me $10-$50 depending on size
  • [20:43:19] <awesome__> no, what's the BBSRM?
  • [20:43:24] <djlewis_> awesome__: just for the connectors that is
  • [20:43:31] <killring> right, and my through hole projects all start at free :-)
  • [20:43:44] <awesome__> can you link me?
  • [20:43:50] <djlewis_> beagleboard.org
  • [20:43:56] <emeb> err.. free assuming you've bought a stock of perf-board, sockets, connectors, etc.
  • [20:44:06] <emeb> which you'd need in any case.
  • [20:44:12] <killring> then it scales up to 'hey this is handy enough to keep around' and I'll do a protoboard version for <$5-10
  • [20:44:14] <djlewis_> awesome__: System Reference manual
  • [20:44:30] <djlewis_> awesome__: if you have new XM there is a differect link
  • [20:45:02] <killring> the *final* step for me would be to say 'hey this is really, really useful' and I'd get a pcb made up. at that point the cost doesn't matter as much because I've decided it's worth making the investment
  • [20:45:19] * amitk (~amit@a91-154-124-12.elisa-laajakaista.fi) Quit (Quit: leaving)
  • [20:45:30] <killring> with smd, the 1st two steps of the process are much less simple and more expensive
  • [20:46:18] <awesome__> i'm just looking for a kit or cable that is preassembled that i can buy
  • [20:46:26] <killring> which makes sense, smd is all about reducing the time and cost of making a final pcb as well as reducing the cost of the components
  • [20:46:33] * djlewis_ is converting to, well mostly, smd! Thank you emeb for your inspiration :)
  • [20:47:00] <killring> djlewis: noooooo! :-)
  • [20:47:02] <djlewis_> mostly due to .1" is getting more difficult to get.
  • [20:47:20] <killring> agreed... there are some parts that force you to smd
  • [20:47:26] <Electric_Monk> Hmm, SMD might actually work out okay for me (I don't like breadboard much and like to make PCBs even for one off prototypes, just to get extra practice etching, so the only difference is less holes to drill at the first stage :D )
  • [20:47:41] <djlewis_> and a .1 / .5 board just isn't sexy looking
  • [20:47:47] <djlewis_> looks too hybrid
  • [20:47:55] <awesome__> djlewis_: are you a DJ?
  • [20:47:59] <killring> but when I have the choice, I always go through hole even if the cost is little higher and the part less capable
  • [20:48:00] <emeb> djlewis_: glad to be inspiring.
  • [20:48:23] <emeb> killring: not arguing that there is a higher threshold to cross in planning for an SMD project.
  • [20:48:30] <emeb> more up-front work
  • [20:48:47] <djlewis_> awesome__: ??
  • [20:49:08] <awesome__> dj lewis?
  • [20:49:08] <awesome__> DJ?
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  • [20:49:15] * jkridner (~jason@pdpc/supporter/active/jkridner) Quit (Quit: jkridner)
  • [20:49:18] <djlewis_> awesome__: as in disk jockey?
  • [20:49:22] * jkridner1 (~jason@c-98-250-141-144.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
  • [20:49:35] <emeb> djlewis_: spinning some tasty trakz down at the local rave...
  • [20:49:35] <mru> or don juan
  • [20:49:46] <killring> emeb: so take it to the extreme example of pretty much most hobbyists first project: the blinking led circuit. time and cost to do through hole vs. smd
  • [20:49:51] * jkridner (~jason@pdpc/supporter/active/jkridner) has joined #beagle
  • [20:50:19] <emeb> killring: good thing that parts for the blinky LED are still thru-hole (and likely to be so for quite some time)
  • [20:50:19] <djlewis_> interesting thing about the internet, we can appear to be most anything or anyone ;)
  • [20:50:30] <awesome__> yes as in disk jockey
  • [20:50:31] <djlewis_> awesome__: I'm taller in person
  • [20:50:39] * mru is now known as _troll_
  • [20:51:02] <emeb> and low-end stuff is still available in DIP - You can get dsPICs in DIP pkgs (my favorite little MCU)
  • [20:51:10] <killring> emeb: as well as many of the other 'classic' parts (at least until companies stop producing them and inventory runs out)
  • [20:51:17] <djlewis_> awesome__: well if your were gonna call me a Dumb Jerk then I was gonna hang up on you :P
  • [20:51:19] <emeb> and I still have a solderless breadboard for stuff like that.
  • [20:51:32] <killring> but that's the wall many hobbyists hit and a good percentage will turn away
  • [20:51:51] <awesome__> haha
  • [20:51:54] <awesome__> the only reason i ask
  • [20:51:58] <awesome__> is because i'm a professional DJ
  • [20:52:02] <awesome__> spin almost every weekend
  • [20:52:04] <emeb> killring: sad but true. They need a bit more persistence.
  • [20:52:19] <djlewis_> awesome__: no, never was my calling ;)
  • [20:52:24] <awesome__> ah ok
  • [20:52:28] <awesome__> well i g2g
  • [20:52:29] <awesome__> later
  • [20:52:35] <djlewis_> see ya
  • [20:52:53] * awesome__ (9206b924@gateway/web/freenode/ip.146.6.185.36) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
  • [20:54:11] <killring> emeb: yes and no. true, once you reach a certain point of complexity and sophistication, through hole must be abandoned. but expecting intro to intermediate level people to go there is probably not realistic
  • [20:54:54] <killring> I'd bet that that's the largest single factor contributing to the arduino's success vs. bb mainstream hobbyists
  • [20:55:03] <killring> even more than cost
  • [20:55:08] * gustavoz (~gustavoz@host57.190-30-11.telecom.net.ar) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
  • [20:55:15] <prpplague> #1 cost, #2 ease of use
  • [20:55:44] <killring> I guess it depends on the person
  • [20:55:57] <prpplague> indeed
  • [20:56:01] <killring> for me, cost is secondary
  • [20:56:11] <killring> I'm willing to pay if it gets me what I want
  • [20:56:54] <hatten||> the arduino IDE/SDK makes the audience a lot broader also
  • [20:57:07] * killring hates the ide/sdk :-)
  • [20:57:23] <killring> but yeah, a lot of folks like it
  • [20:58:10] <hatten||> yeah, most people won't read K&R just to flash LEDs I guess
  • [20:58:13] <killring> it's a much less intimidating interface than saying 'ok, now that you've saved the file in your favorite text editor, drop down to the command line and issue the following commands....'
  • [20:58:46] <killring> I notice that a lot of people never seem to get beyond leds with the arduino
  • [20:59:14] <killring> either they get frustrated by how hard *that* is (lol) or they have scratched their hardware itch and move on to the next shiny thing
  • [20:59:52] <killring> (just a guess on my part)
  • [21:00:17] <hatten||> you're probably right
  • [21:01:29] <killring> I'm probably in the middle that folks like prpplague want to sell to... I'm past the intro stage but really have no interest in becoming a ee-type
  • [21:01:41] <djlewis_> beableboard with its file system environment is more difficult for the non linux types.
  • [21:02:00] <killring> I'm a software and systems guy who's been frustrated by the products being offered for sale and am getting just enough into the hardware to build what I want
  • [21:02:01] <djlewis_> to adapt to.
  • [21:02:38] <djlewis_> I am a hardware guy of the ttl/cmos age tryng to keep on truckin :)
  • [21:02:54] <hatten||> struggling to survive..
  • [21:02:59] <hatten||> in a SMD world
  • [21:03:06] <killring> I started playing with hardware in the ttl/cmos age :-)
  • [21:03:28] <djlewis_> I came from the tube age if that ages me ;)
  • [21:03:33] <_troll_> the first hardware I played with was ttl
  • [21:03:40] <djlewis_> never built anything with tubes though
  • [21:03:46] <emeb> djlewis_: exposure to tubes causes aging?
  • [21:03:50] <killring> when I got back into it, I was pleased to find that all my old parts were still somewhat useful
  • [21:03:51] <djlewis_> transistors were just coming on strong
  • [21:03:54] <_troll_> although more modern stuff existed at the time
  • [21:04:06] <killring> just remember, the internet is just a series of tubes :-)
  • [21:04:07] <djlewis_> emeb: got tha tright and finger burns
  • [21:04:09] <_troll_> ttl was all I could get my hands on
  • [21:04:51] <djlewis_> _troll_: 1968
  • [21:06:00] <djlewis_> yes there were hybrid modules custome designed for particular apps.
  • [21:06:12] <djlewis_> but the transistor was all the rage :)
  • [21:06:31] <emeb> killring: there's still a fairly active community of folks doing electronic DIY in the audio world.
  • [21:06:43] <emeb> music synthesizers, guitar pedals, etc.
  • [21:06:48] <djlewis_> most people hated it them cause they worked wirh only three pins...
  • [21:06:51] <emeb> most of that stuff is thru-hole still
  • [21:07:07] <emeb> but you have to learn analog stuff to get very far with it
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  • [21:07:30] <killring> emeb: yep. and there's even a subset of those still working with tubes
  • [21:07:54] <killring> no doubt the diy world is huge and quite diverse
  • [21:08:05] <emeb> so the barriers to entry there are fairly low, but the skill issue becomes more important.
  • [21:08:27] <killring> yep
  • [21:08:48] <killring> at some point skill (and money) become a factor in virtually any endeavor
  • [21:08:49] * djlewis_ restored 1930's to 1940's antique radios when in my early teens
  • [21:08:54] <emeb> so the thing you see is that any hobby/profession/skill has some kind of barriers
  • [21:09:04] * killring really wants to build a makerbot-type device at some point
  • [21:09:04] <emeb> and we're glad to welcome the folks who can leap them.
  • [21:09:20] <emeb> and lend a hand to those who want to try
  • [21:09:26] <emeb> but success isn't guaranteed....
  • [21:09:33] <killring> it never is
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  • [21:10:18] <djlewis_> yep, i got several injuries in the crawl to walk process :)
  • [21:10:31] <emeb> solder burns
  • [21:10:36] <emeb> electrocution
  • [21:10:42] <emeb> funny smells in the air
  • [21:10:47] <killring> on a related note.... I do smd when I must (and am quite happy that the companies that produce devices I buy have gone that way) it's just not my preferred method
  • [21:10:49] <djlewis_> I meant the crawl to walk process literally
  • [21:10:53] * Electric_Monk wants a makerbot, and a cnc mill
  • [21:11:12] <killring> electric_monk: and a pick and place!
  • [21:11:12] <_troll_> emeb: strictly speaking, you can't have been electrocuted
  • [21:11:13] <djlewis_> I want a cnc too
  • [21:11:27] <Electric_Monk> killring: Haha, I was looking at some random auction company here in Glasgow
  • [21:11:33] <_troll_> "elecrocution" implies the death of the subject
  • [21:11:34] <Electric_Monk> killring: They have stuff like that from companies that have gone under
  • [21:11:40] <Electric_Monk> If only I had a huge workshop with space for random hardware :P
  • [21:11:56] <djlewis_> me too need more space
  • [21:12:10] <djlewis_> like a double garage for a shop
  • [21:12:19] <killring> if only I had the time and money to play with all the random projects I wanted to... I have the space :-(
  • [21:12:27] <djlewis_> and I live alone in 1650 sq ft home
  • [21:13:02] <_troll_> alone? don't you have dogs?
  • [21:13:12] <killring> djlewis: do what I did... start moving the electronics into the walls :-)
  • [21:13:23] * Electric_Monk lives alone in a 3 bedroom house - one of the spare rooms is the 'lab', but it's small
  • [21:13:54] * _troll_ needs to arrange some kind of "server room"
  • [21:14:13] <killring> troll: isn't that what the bedrooms are for? :-)
  • [21:14:21] * jayabharath (~jayabhara@nat/ti/x-ewrbdsijqsalatws) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  • [21:14:42] * _troll_ has only one bedroom
  • [21:14:52] <_troll_> there's a loft that could probably be used
  • [21:14:58] <killring> how many server rooms do you need? :-)
  • [21:15:02] <Electric_Monk> Haha
  • [21:15:08] <_troll_> electricity could be a problem there
  • [21:15:11] <_troll_> need to investigate
  • [21:15:13] * Joseph (8dd46f80@gateway/web/freenode/ip.141.212.111.128) has joined #beagle
  • [21:15:14] <Electric_Monk> My loft just has stuff I'm not using in it. It does include machines...but crappy ones
  • [21:15:20] <Electric_Monk> Stupid SparcStation IPC with 8MB of RAM
  • [21:15:20] <_troll_> and it's a rented property...
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  • [21:15:58] <Josephhh> Hello, I am trying to load android on a beagleboard using this website: http://labs.embinux.org/index.php/Android-Eclair_porting_guide_to_BeagleBoard
  • [21:16:01] * bkero (~bkero2@osuosl/staff/bkero) Quit (Read error: error:1408F10B:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_RECORD:wrong version number)
  • [21:16:13] <Josephhh> But when I do, I fail to get the manifest from the git repo.
  • [21:16:22] <Josephhh> Does anyone know a workaround for this problem?
  • [21:17:56] * prpplague (~danders@70.151.3.16) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
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  • [21:21:47] * _troll_ is now known as mru
  • [21:25:32] <djlewis_> mru: then there are overheat issues in the loft
  • [21:26:12] <mru> no worse than where I have the machines currently
  • [21:28:22] <djlewis_> hmmm, digital camera not here at office :(
  • [21:28:34] * eFfeM (~frans@j200125.upc-j.chello.nl) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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  • [21:29:48] <emeb> mru: re: electrocution - I did not know that.
  • [21:30:07] <emeb> but now that you mention it, it sounds like a contraction of electric & execution.
  • [21:31:29] <mru> emeb: that is actually the etymology
  • [21:32:00] * kmargar (~markos@athedsl-435281.home.otenet.gr) has joined #beagle
  • [21:32:01] <emeb> probably invented by Thomas Edison after he killed that poor elephant.
  • [21:32:16] <mru> first recorded in 1889
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  • [21:35:29] <taru> is tr any good image viewer available for angstrom. I am looking for an image viewer that support .png
  • [21:35:32] * kmargar is now known as markos_
  • [21:38:15] * hatten|| (82ee0729@gateway/web/freenode/ip.130.238.7.41) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  • [21:40:02] <djlewis_> there is something that will display png
  • [21:41:34] <djlewis_> gimp, gqview
  • [21:41:57] <taru> djlewis_: can u name the application that will display png. My filesystem dont have one. I tried command 'gnome-open xyz.png' and by default it open in firefox and gives glib error
  • [21:41:58] <taru> ok
  • [21:42:24] <djlewis_> means you need more libs
  • [21:42:48] <taru> ok
  • [21:43:07] * b7500af1 (~GH@2001:468:c80:6104:21d:9ff:feb3:555b) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
  • [21:44:55] <djlewis_> but again, I dont consider FF a image viewer either ;)
  • [21:45:26] <djlewis_> you did say "good image viewer"
  • [21:45:48] <taru> djlewis_: absolutely true
  • [21:46:00] <taru> djlewis_: I should not be used as image viewer
  • [21:46:49] <emeb> taru: how much of Angstrom do you have?
  • [21:46:58] <emeb> is it the full demo image, or a subset?
  • [21:47:04] <djlewis_> good question :)
  • [21:47:33] <jkridner> mru: can someone cc: me into that discussion on tidsp in FFmpeg? I'd like to respond since my name is invoked. I subscribed to the list too late.
  • [21:47:49] * emeb uses eog or gthumb for image viewer on gnome
  • [21:47:55] <taru> emeb: djlewis_ :Sorry guys ... i am using ubuntu ... i got confused since i recently switched from angstrom
  • [21:48:49] <emeb> eog should be available on ubuntu as well
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  • [21:51:05] <taru> emeb: thanks for that name ... i was exactly looking for that
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  • [21:52:14] <emeb> np
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  • [22:05:59] <gimp_> Hi guys, I've used a gumstix, beagleboard and Davinci (montavista), one thing I miss that montavista had but Angstrom doesn't (by default) is the native tools. Instead everything is left up to busybox. Is it feasible to change the bitbake receipies to NOT use busy box and cross compile the native tools
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  • [22:55:43] <djlewis_> Electric_Monk: seen this? http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=9800
  • [22:56:13] <Electric_Monk> djlewis_: Oh yeah, I think I looked at that before
  • [22:56:42] <Electric_Monk> The SHT15 sensor it has is one I bought off eBay for my weather station :)
  • [22:56:42] * bkero_ is now known as bkero
  • [22:56:47] <djlewis_> its expensive to get the pressure and Humidity sensors separate
  • [22:57:21] <Electric_Monk> Yeah
  • [22:57:29] <Electric_Monk> For pressure I had some Motorola thing, I think MPX4115A
  • [22:57:30] <emeb> they need to add an anemometer and direction interface to it
  • [22:57:31] <high-rez> Any of you got any cool thigns I should try on my beagleboard? I got it for free for helping someone get ubuntu installed on it forever ago ;)
  • [22:57:48] <djlewis_> m outdoor weather unit goes bonkers with high humidity anymore
  • [22:57:51] <Electric_Monk> It has internal amps to keep the signal clean, but basically outputs 0->5V directly corresponding to atmospheric pressure, so it's a huge nuisance to digitise.
  • [22:58:07] <djlewis_> I have read of both those sensors
  • [22:58:43] <djlewis_> emeb: looks like a simple thing to do as speed is pulses and direction can be analog or digital
  • [22:59:01] <Electric_Monk> The analog humidity sensors looked even worse, they were capacitive so you needed to build a monostable multivibrator or whatever to turn it into a nice linear signal. So I just bought that sensor instead, gave a humidity reading over I2C :)
  • [22:59:01] <emeb> djlewis_: yep - does that board have GPIO on it?
  • [22:59:07] <Electric_Monk> I attached it to the board but never tried it :(
  • [22:59:16] <djlewis_> whatever a mega 328 has?
  • [22:59:17] <Electric_Monk> emeb: They should make it do ultrasonic wind sensing ;)
  • [22:59:26] <emeb> Electric_Monk: kewl
  • [22:59:35] <djlewis_> tell me more of this ultrasonic wind sensing
  • [23:01:02] <Electric_Monk> It's four transducers arranged in a cross
  • [23:01:09] <emeb> djlewis_: looks like there's uncommited I/O on the Atmega
  • [23:01:17] <djlewis_> emeb: their schematic is still old version atmega 8
  • [23:01:18] <Electric_Monk> One sends out a pulse, the opposite side detects it.
  • [23:01:21] <emeb> too bad they didn't bring it out to pads
  • [23:01:42] <Electric_Monk> You time how long it takes. If the wind is travelling "with" the pulse, the pulse arrives slightly sooner, if it's against it, slightly later.
  • [23:01:49] <Electric_Monk> Using the delays from both axis you work out direction and speed :)
  • [23:02:16] <Electric_Monk> I think air pressure might be involved too but I also might remember reading that it didn't actually matter. I forget :P
  • [23:02:20] <djlewis_> Electric_Monk: sounds difficult to setup
  • [23:02:29] <Electric_Monk> But I've seen people do it with something as simple as a PIC doing the data capture.
  • [23:02:51] <djlewis_> it would have to be mounted to the wind vane to be all directional
  • [23:02:58] <emeb> Electric_Monk: probably by sending pulses both directions (E->W and W->E) you cancel out the common pressure variable
  • [23:03:01] * Hily (~Hilary@68-64-214-18.static.forethought.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  • [23:03:07] <Electric_Monk> emeb: Yeah, I think that was it :)
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  • [23:03:18] <Electric_Monk> emeb: I think maybe if you were sneaky you could also work out air pressure as a biproduct?
  • [23:03:27] <emeb> Electric_Monk: prolly
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  • [23:03:52] <Electric_Monk> One site I saw where the guy was doing it DIY he used copper water pipes to build the 'frame', so it was nice and rigid but easy to assemble.
  • [23:03:53] <emeb> linear algebra is so useful sometimes
  • [23:03:57] <djlewis_> later guys
  • [23:04:01] <emeb> l8r
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