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  • [01:32:02] <pain> I just got ubuntu to boot on my beagle board. I used a prebuilt image ubuntu-9.10.2-minimal-armel. I thought that it would boot with X but it looks like it is tty. Can someone tell me how I can get X on here?
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  • [01:35:09] <pain> djlewis you gave me some advice yesterday. I was able to get a connected via serial and boot my system but I would like to get this running with the ubuntu and X. Can you give me any advise?
  • [01:38:07] <rcn-ee> pain, the 'minimal' images didn't include x... you can install a reasonable x windows manager with it with "sudo apt-get install gdm xfce4"
  • [01:39:00] <rcn-ee> otherwise, i did upload an xfce4 based gui for lucid... http://elinux.org/BeagleBoardUbuntu#Lucid_10.04_Xfce4 (almost everything useful installed out of the box)
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  • [01:40:47] <pain> rcn-ee thanks, I will try your link
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  • [01:41:30] <djlewis> pain, glad I could help but I never ran ubuntu on BB. rcn-ee is the man :)
  • [01:42:32] <djlewis> strange looking at a uboot on another platform.
  • [01:43:38] <djlewis> and feeling somewhat comfortable in it.
  • [01:43:47] <rcn-ee> nah.. i just throw bits at the beagle and some 1's stick...
  • [01:44:35] <rcn-ee> i try to keep it as similar boot process as angstrom, that way it's easy for people to go back and forth...
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  • [01:45:53] <djlewis> rcn-ee, naw, i'm in another world here. PowerPC Linux Kernel Image
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  • [01:46:43] <rcn-ee> that's a fun world, i've been bugging freescale at work to give me a nice platform such that i can jump in..
  • [01:47:13] <djlewis> I have this netbotz appliance that I forgot the passwd to. clearning it
  • [01:47:27] <djlewis> I am logged in as root however without instructions
  • [01:50:56] <djlewis> well, not much to do there other than config network.
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  • [02:38:40] <DanaG1> hmm, if XM has no NAND, how do you update x-loader?
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  • [02:44:44] <rcn-ee> it loads it from SD. ;)
  • [02:45:46] * djlewis was thinking DanaG1 would have a head slapping DOH moment ;)
  • [02:47:42] <DanaG> Well, last time I accidentally erased my nand, it resulted in the thing being totally unbootable.
  • [02:47:47] <DanaG> Didn't have x-loader.
  • [02:47:57] <DanaG> I had to recover it via serial.
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  • [02:50:29] <djlewis> rumor has it life will be simpler with the XM
  • [02:50:41] <rcn-ee> usually it depends on the card being formatted just right, or holding the user button down..
  • [02:51:24] <DanaG> ah, does it need x-load in the first sector of the card, or such>
  • [02:51:31] <djlewis> rcn-ee, my rC2 BB wouldnt boot from card with user button
  • [02:51:37] <DanaG> Actually, it' be nice if we could put x-load in the MBR.
  • [02:51:54] <DanaG> oh, and "nand erase" command is dangerous.
  • [02:52:03] <DanaG> I thought "nand erase" alone would tell me usage.
  • [02:52:12] <DanaG> But nope, it erased everything.
  • [02:52:19] <DanaG> That's like having "rm" do "rm -rf /"
  • [02:52:44] <djlewis> ugh, horrible thought
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  • [03:06:34] <pain> rcn-ee, Does the prebuilt image have support for the Netgear WN111 wireless N USB adapter?
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  • [03:09:13] <rcn-ee> pain, maybe, it's 2.6.33.4 with every wifi device enabled...
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  • [04:25:07] <pain> rcn-ee, I installed the recommended and booted but I am only getting a white terminal in the top right. No gui - the rest of the screen is black. Any ideas?
  • [04:25:37] <pain> rcn-ee, sorry - terminal in th top left.
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  • [04:59:15] <ds2> hmmmm
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  • [05:05:02] <_av500_> mmmmh
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  • [05:39:32] <beagledeveloper> Here is the link for Flash10.1 download for nexus one arm cortex a8 based phone.
  • [05:39:33] <beagledeveloper> http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/Flash_Player_10.1_for_Android
  • [05:39:55] <beagledeveloper> Did anyone try it on beagle with android2.2?
  • [05:41:45] <beagledeveloper> http://developer.android.com/sdk/android-2.2.html
  • [05:44:34] <_av500_> it need market to download
  • [05:44:39] <_av500_> needs
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  • [05:49:19] <beagledeveloper> you mean to say market app on nexus phone or motorola? No workaround?
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  • [05:54:57] <ds2> for get flash
  • [05:55:11] <ds2> have a longer battery life
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  • [06:11:32] <kiran> Hi can anyone discuss me about linux porting on oomap
  • [06:13:58] <dm8tbr> you're too late. the linux kernel already runs on omap
  • [06:14:01] <kiran> if i wanna to port linux to new arm board whats the process
  • [06:14:35] <kiran> i know that everything is readimadely available just want to know the procesdure
  • [06:14:38] <siji> kiran, I feel u have to go through kernel compilation howtos
  • [06:15:31] <kiran> dats fine siji when i buy the omap board i want to port the linux kernl which i downloaded from www.kernel.org
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  • [06:15:48] <kiran> i think u got it nnw
  • [06:15:57] <siji> kiran, yes
  • [06:16:18] <kiran> siji did you try dis?
  • [06:16:25] <siji> TI is maintaining kernel for Omap
  • [06:16:38] <siji> also u will get Omap configuration file too for the kernel
  • [06:16:58] <kiran> dats fine buddy i know that do you the procedure for that
  • [06:17:19] <ds2> it is simple, you write a check out to someone and sometime later you can a working kernel
  • [06:18:30] <kiran> hey can anyone is able to port the linux kernel which is downloaded from www.kernel.org to OMAP3530
  • [06:19:56] <_av500_> impossible
  • [06:20:12] <kiran> wats impossible
  • [06:20:36] <siji> kiran, u pls specify first wht u knw and wht dnt knw
  • [06:21:13] <kiran> hey siji tell me did you port linux kernel to omap?
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  • [06:22:38] <siji> I dnt like to waste time , since lot of readymade kernels are there to download :)
  • [06:22:54] * emeb|mac (~ericb@ip72-223-81-194.ph.ph.cox.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  • [06:23:07] <kiran> cool but you should know the procesure
  • [06:25:16] <kiran> if u simply download and flash the existing kernl den hw u knw watd going on internall?
  • [06:26:19] <siji> kiran, if u want to teach me about it now, srry am too busy :)
  • [06:26:49] <kiran> im not teaching buddy just asking u
  • [06:30:00] <Ceriand|desktop> my eyes, they bleed
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  • [06:34:28] * dm8tbr hands Ceriand|desktop some goggles
  • [06:34:59] <Ceriand|desktop> ze googles, zay do nothing!
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  • [07:08:30] <ds2> and the other continent awakes....
  • [07:10:07] <hrw> morning
  • [07:10:24] <_av500_> has broken...
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  • [07:17:12] <neure> thats a good one
  • [07:17:30] <neure> i failed to install ubuntu yesterday :/
  • [07:18:00] <neure> netinstall has no driver for moschip and server installer fails to format my usb sticks :/
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  • [08:27:28] <koen> aargh
  • [08:27:42] <koen> "I can try to solder on some SMD stuff during my coffee break"
  • [08:27:50] <koen> *twitch*
  • [08:28:00] <koen> "where did that capacitor go?"
  • [08:28:52] * koen gets back to work and will to try find the misson 1206 component on his balcony during lunch
  • [08:29:27] * dl9pf_ is now known as dl9pf
  • [08:29:29] <_av500_> 1206 us huge
  • [08:29:36] <_av500_> is huge
  • [08:29:39] * dl9pf (~quassel@p5B213BDA.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Changing host)
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  • [08:29:43] <dm8tbr> gigantic
  • [08:30:30] <koen> it is, but not when it's wood coloured one that fell between sawdust and 1206 sized woodchips
  • [08:32:26] <_av500_> use the other one then
  • [08:32:47] <koen> you have come to the core of the problem
  • [08:32:49] <_av500_> let me guess, 22uf
  • [08:33:00] <koen> 100uF
  • [08:33:10] * _av500_ has dozens of these
  • [08:33:27] <koen> _av500_: http://www.thingiverse.com/image:10833
  • [08:33:29] <koen> the C2
  • [08:33:45] <koen> R2 has been successfully attached
  • [08:33:56] <_av500_> koen: well, tell the makerbot to make u one...
  • [08:34:07] <koen> :)
  • [08:34:46] <_av500_> oh it is makerbot
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  • [08:35:01] <koen> yes, the heated buildplatform
  • [08:35:16] <_av500_> well that pcb will even hold a wired C
  • [08:35:28] <_av500_> which u also dont have i guess
  • [08:35:41] <koen> unlikely
  • [08:35:53] <koen> but the uni store has the smd one in stock
  • [08:36:03] <koen> for a whopping 0.01 euro
  • [08:36:28] * _av500_ imagines a single shrink wrapped 100uF C hanging off a shelf
  • [08:36:47] <koen> clamshell packaging of course
  • [08:36:52] <_av500_> between i love my uni shirts..
  • [08:36:56] * _roger_ (~a0740758@nat/ti/x-ieysckgpjzsjeqfv) has joined #beagle
  • [08:37:16] <koen> _roger_: good morning!
  • [08:38:03] <_av500_> btw, how do i get objdump to disassm thumb2?
  • [08:38:20] * siji (~siji@122.170.71.241) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  • [08:38:58] <koen> use a cross objdump?
  • [08:39:42] <_av500_> sure
  • [08:40:10] <_roger_> gm all!
  • [08:42:54] <_av500_> but there is no -M force_thumb_2 or so
  • [08:43:37] <ant_work> koen: any new idea for udev-151 challenged machines? How would 124 convive?
  • [08:43:58] <ant_work> gross-hack ?
  • [08:48:53] <_koen_> ant_work: with the udev-static recipe I did
  • [08:49:06] * _koen_ is still waiting on more test reports
  • [08:49:30] <dm8tbr> oh, I'm interested
  • [08:49:32] * ant_work lost a couple of weeks with new bitbake/oe issues
  • [08:51:04] <ant_work> _koen_: anyway I did some Angstrom multimachine builds and there are not so many issues. Packaged staging seems working finally...
  • [08:51:23] <_koen_> I saw you finally fixed zaurus updater again :)
  • [08:51:50] <ant_work> you were right... I thought I could do it but...
  • [08:52:08] <ant_work> package_stagefile_shell makes all machine specific atm
  • [08:52:13] <ant_work> as it is
  • [08:52:25] <_koen_> we could install it in to DEPLOY_DIR_TOOLS
  • [08:52:30] * Ceriand|desktop (~Ceriand@unaffiliated/ceriand) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  • [08:52:31] <_koen_> iirc dfu-utils does that as well
  • [08:52:44] * siji (~siji@122.169.55.59) has joined #beagle
  • [08:52:44] <ant_work> yes, mostly are bootloader using that p.s.s
  • [08:52:53] <ant_work> iirc xloader, uboot too
  • [08:52:53] <_koen_> that reminds me, I need to update dfu util in OE and poke diego for the uboot patches
  • [08:52:58] <ant_work> he he
  • [08:53:43] <neure> erm
  • [08:57:46] <neure> anyone running angstrom - where can i get ncurses dev package?
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  • [08:58:46] <ant_work> _koen_: are you adding dfu-util rc1? I'll have to test on x86
  • [08:58:54] <ant_work> now has moved to .git
  • [08:59:44] <ant_work> ah, we have v.01 !
  • [08:59:48] <_koen_> ant_work: AIUI stefan has released 0.1
  • [08:59:51] * _koen_ too slow
  • [08:59:52] <ant_work> yep
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  • [09:36:33] <mobidev> hi to all
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  • [10:14:55] <DaveDavenport> would it be possible to run the beagleboard (revC4) at 400mhz?
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  • [10:33:05] <mru> DaveDavenport: sure, it will run as slowly as 125MHz
  • [10:38:45] <DaveDavenport> where can get it to run at this speed, I have been trying to figure out where it is in the kernel code that the different frequency points are specified
  • [10:41:22] <mru> use cpufreq
  • [10:41:52] <DaveDavenport> well 400 isn't a piont, so it will round off to 500
  • [10:42:19] <mru> then run it there
  • [10:42:36] <DaveDavenport> if I wanted todo that I would ask if I could also get it to run at 400
  • [10:42:41] <mru> the power management is tuned for the specific OPPs
  • [10:42:44] <DaveDavenport> would/wouldn't
  • [10:42:45] <mru> probably best to stick to them
  • [10:45:18] <neure> i'd also like to know how to run at for example 400 MHz
  • [10:45:24] <neure> why are there so few options?
  • [10:45:33] <neure> and how to customize those?
  • [10:45:55] <_av500_> u can change the code and add opps
  • [10:46:17] <neure> whats opp?
  • [10:46:26] <DaveDavenport> _av500_: where is that code hidden?
  • [10:46:32] * DaveDavenport feels retarted
  • [10:46:35] <DaveDavenport> for not finding it
  • [10:46:41] <_av500_> arch/arch/plat-omap
  • [10:46:44] <_av500_> or mach.omap3
  • [10:46:56] <_av500_> err mach-omap2
  • [10:47:44] <DaveDavenport> kay. will check that again
  • [10:47:47] <_av500_> but there is no point to run at 400
  • [10:47:58] <_av500_> compared to 500
  • [10:48:20] <neure> why not?
  • [10:48:21] <DaveDavenport> yeah, there is not point to alot of things. still the academic world loves it
  • [10:49:08] <_av500_> neure: as long as the voltage is unchanged, you gain little
  • [10:49:38] <neure> could voltage be changed?
  • [10:49:41] <_av500_> what u want is to run your stuff at the highest speed possible, then fall back to the lowest opp to savepower
  • [10:50:13] <_av500_> neure: yes, ti has defined mhz+voltage combinations, called OPP
  • [10:50:22] <_av500_> add your own of course
  • [10:50:26] <neure> for arm?
  • [10:50:35] <neure> or which part is ti making?
  • [10:51:08] <_av500_> omap3
  • [10:52:02] <neure> right
  • [10:54:33] <_av500_> the main issue of omap3 is leakage, which is lower with lower voltage, so you want to run as low as possible all the time
  • [10:54:51] <_av500_> so it makes sense to use dynamic freq/voltage switching...
  • [10:55:01] * Summeli (summeli@irc.summeli.fi) has joined #beagle
  • [10:55:22] <_av500_> which scales up on demand and falls back to lowest opps as often as possible..
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  • [11:07:32] <neure> so cpufreq-set -f will also change voltage?
  • [11:07:41] <neure> can i see current voltage somewhere?
  • [11:12:37] <_av500_> somewhere
  • [11:12:50] <_av500_> yes, voltage is changed with freq
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  • [11:23:37] * _koen_ now has 10 extra chances to get the 100nF cap on
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  • [11:38:20] <hgs> hi all, what is pixel based alpha transparency ?
  • [11:38:29] <hgs> is it feature which will allow to define alpha transparency for a specified region of the graphics plane, so that the contents of video plane is seen through the graphics plane?
  • [11:40:38] * neo01124 (~neo@122.173.210.83) has joined #beagle
  • [11:48:38] <notzed> it's pretty much exactly what it says it is
  • [11:49:41] * cfriedt (~cfriedt@nb060.tf.uni-kiel.de) has joined #beagle
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  • [11:52:09] <maltanar> hi all!
  • [11:53:05] <cfriedt> hi
  • [11:59:40] <hgs> notzed: i could not find the ioctl call with which i can define the transparency region?
  • [12:01:47] <cfriedt> is anyone in this room current with the v4l-dvb / uvc gadget code (for 2.6.35-rc1) ? ... i seem to be missing a few patches that are preventing a successful kernel build.
  • [12:01:49] * siji (~siji@122.170.65.161) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  • [12:01:57] <hgs> notzed: or does it mean i have to create rgba buffer with appropriate alpha value and render it on the defined area where the video shld be seen?
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  • [12:20:35] <janneg> cfriedt: Laurent is in #v4l
  • [12:21:26] <_koen_> cfriedt: if you find those patches, please share them, I'd like to have a go at them as well :)
  • [12:22:42] <notzed> hgs: i don't know how linux maps the hardware
  • [12:23:22] <notzed> it may not support all features yet either
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  • [12:26:34] <topfs2_> is there any simple way to see what irq and serial port is mapped to as /dev/ttyS*? Reason being I don't get a connetion with it on my beagle so just want to make sure I have selected the correct serial
  • [12:27:25] <notzed> on the beagleboard or on a pc?
  • [12:27:42] <topfs2_> PC, so I know I've set up minicom or gtkterm correctly
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  • [12:28:25] <topfs2_> I think its correct on the BB, the IBC10 cable misses a cable on one lead, I have put this as pin 10 as suggested in the wiki :)
  • [12:29:02] <notzed> what are your serial settings?
  • [12:29:11] <topfs2_> Putting in the USB cable and it all lights up nice and such but no reaction in minicom on any of the ttyS0-4
  • [12:29:12] * Meizirkki (~Meizirkki@bbwirelessgw2-fee1dc00-2.dhcp.inet.fi) has joined #beagle
  • [12:29:43] <topfs2_> The settings are 1152000 8N1 without hw flowcontrol
  • [12:30:10] <topfs2_> wooooo
  • [12:30:10] <neure> whey do i get "Unknown HZ value! (75) Assume 100." when i run ps?
  • [12:30:16] <topfs2_> seems to be one zero to much in that :D
  • [12:30:32] <topfs2_> 2 s, will try another baud
  • [12:31:09] <neo01124> hey topfs2_ did u get the dump in minicom?
  • [12:31:13] * bearsh (~quassel@adsl-245-48-fixip.datacomm.ch) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  • [12:31:25] <notzed> should be 115200. make sure no software flow control either
  • [12:31:27] * siji (~siji@122.169.28.104) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  • [12:31:32] <janneg> _koen_: uvc gadget was merged for 2.6.35
  • [12:31:45] <_koen_> if you get that unkown hz value you are probably running an old demo image
  • [12:31:59] <_koen_> procps was patched some months ago to get rid of that
  • [12:32:19] * bearsh (~quassel@adsl-245-48-fixip.datacomm.ch) has joined #beagle
  • [12:32:34] <topfs2_> neo01124, dump?
  • [12:32:48] <neo01124> topfs2_, the reply from BB
  • [12:32:50] <topfs2_> notzed, between tries pressing reset button on the BB is ok?
  • [12:32:55] <topfs2_> neo01124, nope nada
  • [12:33:04] <neo01124> topfs2_, same problem here
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  • [12:33:35] <notzed> yeah
  • [12:35:01] <topfs2_> no difference, the only thing is that it says offline in the bottom, seems awefully suspicious to me :)
  • [12:35:51] <neo01124> topfs2_, what is the right way to plug the serial cable into the BB ?
  • [12:36:18] <topfs2_> When I have it working I'm probably more qualified to answer that :)
  • [12:36:22] <notzed> yeah it says offline
  • [12:36:40] <topfs2_> notzed, so that is normal?
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  • [12:37:50] <notzed> yep, well that's what mine says and it's working find
  • [12:38:09] <neo01124> topfs2_, you mentioned something about the pin 10 on the IBC cable
  • [12:38:34] <topfs2_> neo01124, according to doc pin10 isn't needed. and my IBC cable is missing a cable there so I assume I've put it in correctly
  • [12:39:01] <notzed> i cut mine off
  • [12:40:27] <topfs2_> I hate when I can't say which end is wrong. I've never used the serial on this computer before :) so could just as easily be the serial :)
  • [12:40:59] <cfriedt> _koen_: it looks like all of the necessary changes for uvc gadgets are in linux-next (git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/next/linux-next.git)
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  • [12:41:59] <neo01124> i am going through a serial to usb converter into my usb port
  • [12:42:32] <cfriedt> _koen_: nevermind... it snuck into mainline while I wasn't looking
  • [12:43:38] <notzed> topfs2: have to make sure the serial cable is wired up right, and perhaps check serial is on in the bios
  • [12:44:00] * khasim (~a0393720@192.163.20.231) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  • [12:44:29] <topfs2_> I have double checked in bios but I'll try to make sure its ok hooked up
  • [12:44:59] <topfs2_> currently I'm trying this over ssh, perhaps not the most supported way :)
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  • [12:45:58] <notzed> doesn't matter
  • [12:46:35] <topfs2_> oh well, I'll just try to get the SD card proper, afaict the serial isn't _needed_ right?
  • [12:47:24] <notzed> no not strictly, but if you're flying blind it can be a bit of a pain
  • [12:48:04] <topfs2_> wouldnt' be fun without a challange ;)
  • [12:48:37] <neo01124> notzed, how important is the serial link for kernel development?
  • [12:48:55] * ssvb (~ssvb___@viktor.cosmicparrot.net) has joined #beagle
  • [12:49:47] <notzed> hmm, good question. short of any other facilities, probably important.
  • [12:51:29] * theholyduck (~holyduck@77.106.158.10) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  • [12:52:47] <notzed> preumably you have null modem cables, pins 2 & 3 crossed over?
  • [12:53:50] <neo01124> my IBC cable is going into a serial to USB converter and then into the USB port on my laptop
  • [12:54:19] <notzed> its IDC btw
  • [12:55:24] <topfs2_> Yeah same here, from BB straight into the comp, perhaps but with that crossed thing I guess I'm supposed to have one of those really old ones which you used for network games :)
  • [12:55:42] * khasim (~a0393720@192.163.20.231) has joined #beagle
  • [12:55:57] <notzed> the ribbon cable is going straight into the computer without another cable?
  • [12:56:21] <topfs2_> not sure what a ribbon cable is but the BBC01 -> computer
  • [12:56:34] <topfs2_> http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/1615172-cable-beagle-brd-serial-40-bbc01.html
  • [12:56:36] <notzed> ribbon cable = flat wires
  • [12:57:03] <notzed> oh ok
  • [12:57:11] <topfs2_> I thought it was crossed but perhaps it isn't?
  • [12:58:05] <notzed> have a multimeter?
  • [12:58:24] <topfs2_> Sure
  • [12:58:39] * soman (~somnath@118.102.130.6) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  • [12:59:20] <topfs2_> (got it now)
  • [13:00:46] <notzed> pin 2 on that should go to pin 3 on the db9 end
  • [13:01:42] * maltanar notes that the first mass-produced Pandoras have begun shipping around the globe. One SoC to rule them all!
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  • [13:06:01] <topfs2_> pin 1 on IDC goes to pin 3 on db9
  • [13:06:48] <notzed> sure you have the right 'pin 1'?
  • [13:07:39] * mobidev (~mobidev@94.127.205.30) Quit (Quit: I go offline...)
  • [13:08:32] <topfs2_> nope that wasn't right :)
  • [13:08:41] <topfs2_> ok IDC 2 does not go to 3
  • [13:08:54] <topfs2_> not sure if its 3 -> 3 or 4 -> 3 but not 2 -> atleast
  • [13:09:04] <topfs2_> So not crossed :(
  • [13:09:33] <topfs2_> atleast that explains it :)
  • [13:09:38] <notzed> 2 is the pin closest to sd slot
  • [13:09:58] <topfs2_> Yeah, that one does _not_ go to 3 on the DB9
  • [13:10:03] * markos_ (~markos@athedsl-425696.home.otenet.gr) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [13:10:49] <topfs2_> Should be able to cross them myself then
  • [13:11:10] <notzed> was there a pinout with the cable?
  • [13:11:39] <topfs2_> nope
  • [13:12:34] <drinkcat> hi all, I think that I'm having the same kind of problems with the serial communication...
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  • [13:29:39] <eFfeM_work> drinkcat: topfs2_ first thing is to verify with multimeter how the pinout is (and make sure you mount the bb side correctly)
  • [13:30:02] <drinkcat> What I'm doing now...
  • [13:30:37] <drinkcat> it seems like it's a null-modem cable
  • [13:32:32] <eFfeM_work> it should be
  • [13:32:44] <drinkcat> even with a USB->serial converter?
  • [13:32:54] <topfs2_> well mine doesn't seem to be null modem so thats my issue :)
  • [13:33:15] <topfs2_> gonna try booting it from SD card before getting a null modem card
  • [13:33:21] <topfs2_> s / card / cable
  • [13:33:29] <eFfeM_work> i rolled my own cable just with a 10 wire flat cable, made a 10 pin header to one side and a 9 pin rs232 at the other side (make sure 1-1 etc) then crossed 2-3 in the flatcable
  • [13:33:45] <eFfeM_work> i'm using a std usb to serial thingie with that
  • [13:33:49] <drinkcat> okay
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  • [13:34:08] <drinkcat> but that's just a RX/TX crossed cable then, not a null-modem one
  • [13:34:35] <drinkcat> I'm tempted about taking all the pins out of the connector, and just leave RX, TX and GND
  • [13:34:47] <topfs2_> would that be enough?
  • [13:34:53] <topfs2_> because I have that on my arduino
  • [13:34:57] * cfriedt (~cfriedt@nb060.tf.uni-kiel.de) has left #beagle
  • [13:34:58] <eFfeM_work> true but i doubt if my usb thingie even looks at the other cables
  • [13:35:00] <topfs2_> much simpler to switch then :)
  • [13:35:43] <drinkcat> I managed to get some (noisy) communication by connecting a wire between TX on the BB to the RX on the serial cable (I don't have enough hands to hold the GND as well, hence the noise ,-))
  • [13:36:29] <drinkcat> topfs2_: I guess that would be enough, since everyone tells you to disable flow control, and I think the other pins are precisely used for flow control...
  • [13:36:33] <topfs2_> I am tbh not very well read up on rs232 but I guess they have the clock modulated into rx/tx then?
  • [13:36:47] <topfs2_> cool, will try that then
  • [13:38:06] <drinkcat> I think that the clock is generated on both sides, so there is no "clock" on the cable itself...
  • [13:38:36] <notzed> it's asynchronous
  • [13:38:45] <eFfeM_work> it is asynchronous, the first pulse triggers the sampling 9that's why you need to tell the clock freq)
  • [13:38:59] <eFfeM_work> and pulses are long enough to cope with some mismatch
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  • [13:39:43] <topfs2_> ah cool
  • [13:39:58] <topfs2_> Hope that works since then I can use the usb one I have
  • [13:40:07] <topfs2_> much better than ssh in to my NAS :)
  • [13:40:42] <drinkcat> on my side I _need_ the serial ,-) so it's a bit more critical ,-)
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  • [13:47:24] <eFfeM_work> drinkcat: if you remain stuck I can make pics of my cable, but probably can't do that before tomorrow evening
  • [13:48:06] <drinkcat> it's ok, I think the cable was mounted uncorrectly...
  • [13:48:18] <drinkcat> pins 1 and 2 are crossed..
  • [13:48:32] <drinkcat> which doesn't make sense...
  • [13:49:38] <hgs> hi everyone, is chroma color keying supported in fbdev??
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  • [13:51:42] <hgs> it is supported through v4l driver, but is it available through framebuffer
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  • [14:02:00] <drinkcat> eFfeM_work: that cable doesn't make sense, the ring indicator (pin 9) was connected on the TX (pin 3), and the rest is not better...
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  • [14:03:26] <notzed> is 8 connected to rx?
  • [14:03:41] <drinkcat> 8 connected with 6+8
  • [14:03:58] * tasslehoff (~Mich@147.84-49-231.nextgentel.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  • [14:03:58] <drinkcat> (bridge between 6 and 8)
  • [14:04:17] <eFfeM_work> drinkcat: that looks indeed pretty bad
  • [14:04:26] <notzed> odd
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  • [14:06:40] <drinkcat> and the TX is strapped with another one (pin 6), it tricky to release the wires from the connector....
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  • [14:32:08] <_av500_> hgs: play with omapdss stuff in sysfs
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  • [14:34:50] <neo01124> drinkcat, this is the cable you are talking about http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/1615172-cable-beagle-brd-serial-40-bbc01.html ?
  • [14:34:57] <drinkcat> yes
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  • [14:37:23] <drinkcat> it works!
  • [14:37:48] <topfs2_> what did you do then? just switched rx/tx?
  • [14:38:05] <drinkcat> err..
  • [14:38:20] <drinkcat> I removed all the wires from the connector
  • [14:39:05] <drinkcat> then I split the red and green wires (which were put together by mistake), and put back the red (TX)
  • [14:39:46] <drinkcat> then I connect the RX, TX (crossed) and GND, nothing else (i.e. the rest of the wires are flying)
  • [14:39:58] <topfs2_> Oh cool
  • [14:40:09] <topfs2_> Sounds simple enough
  • [14:40:12] <topfs2_> will try that later then
  • [14:40:13] <drinkcat> but don't do that on yours, I guess (and hope), it's only mine who's badly mounted, check with a ohm-meter before
  • [14:40:29] <topfs2_> Well I've confirmed mine wasn't crossed atleast
  • [14:40:38] <topfs2_> But will doublecheck that ofcourse
  • [14:40:41] <drinkcat> ok that's already bad ,-)
  • [14:40:45] <drinkcat> pinout is there btw: http://www.zytrax.com/tech/layer_1/cables/tech_rs232.htm#db9
  • [14:41:31] <topfs2_> wonderful! thanks
  • [14:42:12] <drinkcat> (on the female connector there are pin numbers, that make the check easier)
  • [14:42:47] <topfs2_> ah now I see what you meant by not being a null modem if you just crossed
  • [14:43:08] <topfs2_> RTS and CTS was needed aswell
  • [14:43:21] <drinkcat> yeah and some pins are bridged...
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  • [14:50:11] * RoHS got a trainer board in the mail today! w0o!
  • [14:50:38] <prpplague> RoHS: dandy
  • [14:50:50] <prpplague> RoHS: impressions yet?
  • [14:51:23] <RoHS> Our director of engineering wanted to mess with it, since I'll be out of town for the next week.
  • [14:51:49] <RoHS> and I have a mad rush of editing all the Maker Faire footage today.
  • [14:52:06] <RoHS> so I'll mess with it when I get back in town on Monday.
  • [14:52:11] <neo01124> drinkcat, the red and the green wires are combined on my cable also... might not be a mistake
  • [14:53:29] <neo01124> drinkcat, you just pulled the wires out of their slots and plugged them back in into the correct slots?
  • [14:53:54] <prpplague> RoHS: np, do we need to send an additional?
  • [14:54:07] <drinkcat> neo01124: yeah, and I split the red and green
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  • [14:55:04] <drinkcat> and it cannot be correct, at least with my cable, as red is pin 3 (TX), and green is pin 6.
  • [14:55:17] <RoHS> nah, I'm sure pete will be done with it by time I get back in town.
  • [14:55:23] <neo01124> drinkcat: you used some tool to plug them back in ?
  • [14:55:44] <drinkcat> neo01124: but it seems like serial cable do not really have any kind of standard color, so maybe it's my cable which is weird
  • [14:55:58] <prpplague> RoHS: please give him my nick and email, i'll be happy to answer any questions he might have
  • [14:56:09] <prpplague> RoHS: is that Nate?
  • [14:56:27] <RoHS> will do, is it rusty@tincantools.com?
  • [14:56:43] <drinkcat> neo01124: in is easy (I used a need to push it), out is a bit harder (again, with a needle)
  • [14:56:56] <neo01124> ok
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  • [14:57:27] <neo01124> i dont have a multimeter so can you tell me which color went into which hole number ?
  • [15:00:51] <drinkcat> neo01124: I'm not sure if your colors are the same as mine, so it would be better to check. RX is brown (pin 3 on the BB), TX is red (pin 2), and GND is yellow (pin 5)
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  • [15:27:38] <neo01124> drinkcat, hurrah!! works for me also!!
  • [15:27:48] <drinkcat> neo01124: great!
  • [15:30:08] <neo01124> drinkcat, it is weird though, even the ground connection was wrong !
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  • [15:35:09] <drinkcat> neo01124: you got yours from digi-key as well, right?
  • [15:35:52] <torpor> what're you guys hacking?
  • [15:35:57] <neo01124> yes, the gsoc package (BB+power brick+cable)
  • [15:36:47] <drinkcat> ok then it's probably the whole batch that is faulty then...
  • [15:37:17] <neo01124> yea
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  • [15:50:18] <wdieter> neo01124: drinkcat: I got a serial cable in the mail from digi-key yesterday and it is definitely wired wrong
  • [15:50:44] <wdieter> I used a DMM to check connectivity and it is not even close
  • [15:51:01] <wdieter> but the colors match the colors listed on the digi-key data sheet :-)
  • [15:51:03] <_av500_> gee, even dk is unable to procure a bb serial cable
  • [15:51:36] <wdieter> whoever wired it must have not noticed the note at the bottom saying not to rely on the colors, as the manufacturers change them without warning
  • [15:52:05] <notzed> hah
  • [15:53:23] * _roger_ (~a0740758@nat/ti/x-ieysckgpjzsjeqfv) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
  • [15:55:20] <_av500_> too bad that the bb is color blind...
  • [15:56:31] <drinkcat> wdieter: I'll upload some pictures of my hack tonight, if you want to get your cable working (or you may want to send it back to digikey...)
  • [15:57:22] <_av500_> whatever happened to this: 1) connect pins 2,3 and 5 properly
  • [15:57:30] <_av500_> 2) there is no 2)
  • [15:58:07] <emeb> having a true db9 conn on the xM will solve a few issues...
  • [15:58:44] <_av500_> yes, reduce traffic here by 50%
  • [15:58:45] * Meizirkki (~Meizirkki@bbwirelessgw2-fee1dc00-2.dhcp.inet.fi) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  • [15:58:55] <emeb> and we'll start getting lonely.
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  • [15:59:06] <_av500_> tumble weed
  • [15:59:11] <emeb> <crickets>
  • [15:59:34] * lifeeth (~praneeth@unaffiliated/lifeeth) Quit (Quit: Up and at 'em, Atom Ant!)
  • [16:00:26] <emeb> AFAIK they plan to continue selling C4 beagles even after the xM is released, yes?
  • [16:00:38] <djlewis> my how time flys when I am off work..
  • [16:01:15] <emeb> I've heard retirees say they can't imagine how they found time to work.
  • [16:01:22] * djlewis hears crickets and phones ringing 24/7
  • [16:01:39] <emeb> crickets calling you on the phone?
  • [16:01:42] <djlewis> emeb, yep, time for me to head to it.
  • [16:01:51] <djlewis> probably.
  • [16:01:55] <emeb> drive safe
  • [16:01:58] <djlewis> bad ears... :(
  • [16:02:05] <emeb> tinnitus?
  • [16:03:13] <djlewis> I wasnt going to try to spell it but yes
  • [16:03:31] <emeb> me too - constant low-level 'squeeeoooeeeoooooeeeee'
  • [16:04:04] <emeb> so used to it that if it ever stopped I'd probably worry...
  • [16:07:07] <djlewis> yep, mine is louder but I am used to it as well.
  • [16:07:44] <emeb> Don't forget - Towel Day! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Towel_Day
  • [16:11:38] * ubuntu_ (~82cbc0be@gateway/web/freenode/x-bdfdiwwhojhddlli) has joined #beagle
  • [16:11:52] <ubuntu_> hey everyone
  • [16:12:14] <ubuntu_> anyone here use vmware?
  • [16:14:19] <emeb> for what?
  • [16:14:29] * emeb uses it to run WinXP on a mac
  • [16:15:30] <ubuntu_> i'm using it to run ubuntu on an xp
  • [16:15:46] <_av500_> i run linux, no need for vmware
  • [16:16:10] <ubuntu_> my ubuntu is malfunctioning and i want to pull some of my files off the virtual disk and onto my normal xp drive
  • [16:16:23] <ubuntu_> any idea how to do this?
  • [16:16:29] <emeb> not me
  • [16:16:47] <_av500_> no idea
  • [16:16:48] <ubuntu_> same
  • [16:17:03] <_av500_> but #beagle is not the right place to ask i fear
  • [16:17:21] <ubuntu_> good point
  • [16:17:29] <ubuntu_> figured someone might have tried it at one point tho
  • [16:18:36] <wdieter> _av500_: thanks for the offer. I am just planning to swap pins 2&3 on the header to pins 3&2 on the connector, connect pin 5 straight through, and leave the rest dangling
  • [16:18:46] * RobotGrrl (~RobotGrrl@bas2-montreal50-1176032947.dsl.bell.ca) Quit (Quit: RobotGrrl)
  • [16:19:36] * RedNaz (~4f855f1c@gateway/web/freenode/x-fdqqwlrtmlmudkng) has joined #beagle
  • [16:19:41] <RedNaz> Hello!
  • [16:20:35] <_av500_> http://www.t4f.org/projects/business-card
  • [16:21:29] <RedNaz> Can anyone tell, how to check, that my touchscreen is supported by Android on BeagleBoard ? (I dont have BeagleBoard yet)
  • [16:23:04] * niclas_ (~niclas@nat/ti/x-tznfaresghwitxay) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  • [16:23:23] <prpplague> RedNaz: first by identifing the touchscreen controller you are using
  • [16:23:31] <prpplague> _av500_: great item
  • [16:23:39] <prpplague> _av500_: that is really creative
  • [16:23:47] <_av500_> thought youd like it
  • [16:24:06] <drinkcat> wdieter: just beware that TX/pin 3 (the red wire) is connected with another wire (ping 6, green), cut the green one before you swap...
  • [16:24:13] <_av500_> can we make omap3 version :)
  • [16:24:31] <RedNaz> prpplague, it is "noname" from Chinese friends
  • [16:24:42] <djlewis> tnx emeb , almost forgot.
  • [16:24:57] <prpplague> RedNaz: so how do you expect to find out if it is supported?
  • [16:25:23] <_av500_> crystal ball?
  • [16:25:27] <RedNaz> May be there are list of supported ....
  • [16:25:31] <RedNaz> is
  • [16:25:32] <prpplague> RedNaz: what is the interface on it? usb,spi, serial, i2c ?
  • [16:25:33] <_av500_> no
  • [16:25:48] <RedNaz> prpplague, USB
  • [16:25:52] <prpplague> _av500_: hehe omap3 would be cool, but difficult
  • [16:25:58] * jpirko (~jirka@ip-89-103-91-100.karneval.cz) has joined #beagle
  • [16:26:00] <_av500_> RedNaz: should be fine
  • [16:26:05] * hrw is now known as hrw|gone
  • [16:26:10] <_av500_> but of course editing code might be needed
  • [16:26:16] <prpplague> RedNaz: check the vendor/product id
  • [16:26:28] <_av500_> i guess it is stock hi
  • [16:26:29] <_av500_> i guess it is stock hid
  • [16:27:15] <RedNaz> one more question, how about USB GPS ?
  • [16:27:55] * Entasis (~Jarred@ppp118-210-124-115.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
  • [16:28:11] <_av500_> how bout it?
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  • [16:28:27] <RedNaz> Is it supported ?
  • [16:28:33] <_av500_> RedNaz: should be fine
  • [16:28:36] <_av500_> but of course editing code might be needed
  • [16:29:43] * markos_ (~markos@athedsl-434876.home.otenet.gr) has joined #beagle
  • [16:30:23] <RedNaz> No more question, friends. Thanks a lot!
  • [16:31:23] <prpplague> _av500_: depends, there are a bunch of ts controllers out there that are using the pic18f4455 which has custom programming
  • [16:31:51] <_av500_> but of course editing code might be needed
  • [16:31:53] <_av500_> :)
  • [16:32:29] <prpplague> _av500_: i've got a 5-wire capacitive right now that is giving me trouble
  • [16:32:30] <buZz> most usb gps are just usbserial devices
  • [16:32:40] <prpplague> _av500_: looks like the vender did all custom drivers
  • [16:33:07] <_av500_> prpplague: 5 wire capacitive?
  • [16:33:08] <wdieter> drinkcat: thanks, that's a good point.
  • [16:33:14] <_av500_> whats the 5th wire?
  • [16:33:27] <prpplague> _av500_: sorry i meant 5-wire resistive
  • [16:33:27] * kmargar (~markos@athedsl-435117.home.otenet.gr) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  • [16:33:34] <_av500_> ah
  • [16:33:42] <prpplague> _av500_: someone was talking capacitive in the next cube over
  • [16:34:04] <RedNaz> buZz, my usbserial
  • [16:35:39] * khasim (~a0393720@192.163.20.231) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  • [16:36:15] <buZz> RedNaz: your usb gps is usbserial? then it should work fine on the beagle
  • [16:37:22] <RedNaz> buZz, thats great! Im going to buy BB soon, and searching for compatible hardware now
  • [16:47:18] * Phrog (~chatzilla@ip-87-82-198-210.easynet.co.uk) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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  • [17:19:06] <maltanar> greetings to you all, o people of #beagle
  • [17:30:15] * RoHS (~RoHS@68-64-214-18.static.forethought.net) has joined #beagle
  • [17:33:36] <topfs2_> hehe morning maltanar :)
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  • [17:54:08] <koen> "Aoson is now shipping a mobile Internet device (MID) that ships with Android, and can also run Linux 2.4,"
  • [17:54:12] * koen WTFs
  • [17:54:31] <koen> who would *want* to run linux 2.4 these days?
  • [17:59:17] * flo_lap (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) has joined #beagle
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  • [17:59:39] * wdieter (~wdieter@74-142-218-14.dhcp.insightbb.com) has joined #beagle
  • [17:59:41] <janneg> and who would write/backport kernel code to support 2.4 on newish hardware
  • [18:03:08] * thaytan (~jan@ppp59-167-167-201.static.internode.on.net) has joined #beagle
  • [18:05:35] * rsalveti (~rsalveti@AGrenoble-156-1-5-210.w90-36.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #beagle
  • [18:08:30] <ds2> I'd
  • [18:08:36] <ds2> it has less crap
  • [18:10:48] <_av500_> koen: typo?
  • [18:11:12] <mru> ds2: crap?
  • [18:11:23] <ds2> mru: yeah...all the added abstraction layers
  • [18:11:26] * flo_lap (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) Quit (Quit: Verlassend)
  • [18:11:34] <ds2> but then I also like 1.x kernels ;)
  • [18:11:37] <_av500_> they hinder youP
  • [18:11:38] <mru> ds2: they seem to work pretty darn well
  • [18:11:40] <_av500_> they hinder you?
  • [18:11:51] <ds2> mru: sure, if you are building a big device
  • [18:11:56] <mru> eh?
  • [18:12:02] <ds2> I find 1M-2M systems interesting
  • [18:12:06] * nlCortana (~johan@ip45-216-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  • [18:12:31] <ds2> OTH, I find uClinux uninteresting in that same context
  • [18:12:33] <mru> then you probably shouldn't be running linux
  • [18:12:44] <ds2> Linux ran fine in 1-2M's
  • [18:12:58] <mru> there are a plethora of nice, tiny RTOSes out there
  • [18:13:21] <ds2> nice is subjective
  • [18:13:24] <_av500_> and a lot of NoOSs
  • [18:14:08] <ds2> below 1M, I'm happy with bare metal
  • [18:14:13] <mru> even linux 2.0 required 4MB to work reliably iirc
  • [18:14:30] <ds2> depends on how you configured it
  • [18:14:58] <ds2> for the longest time I had a 2M 386 as a router running linux
  • [18:15:29] <ds2> it got retired because one of those newer MIPs boxes saved enough power to pay for itself
  • [18:15:33] * Crofton (~balister@pool-96-240-165-6.ronkva.east.verizon.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
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  • [18:16:44] * ssvb (~ssvb___@viktor.cosmicparrot.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
  • [18:18:39] * mru uses a 2GB core2 as router
  • [18:18:43] <mru> times change...
  • [18:18:55] <ds2> different interests
  • [18:19:07] <mru> I use what is practical
  • [18:19:09] <ds2> the only router I'd use with a core2 is a CNC router with EMC :D
  • [18:19:26] <ds2> So do I.... some of us get free 386's ;)
  • [18:19:48] <mru> and running linux on 1MB ram is not practical
  • [18:19:57] <ds2> it is
  • [18:20:00] <mru> it's not the intended target type
  • [18:20:03] <ds2> just got to know how :D
  • [18:20:26] <ds2> we have different interests
  • [18:21:02] * florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [18:21:19] <mru> if I were using such tiny systems, I'd be running something non-linux on them
  • [18:21:38] <ds2> there is value in some level of uniformity
  • [18:21:53] <ds2> running non-Linux adds to the dev environment
  • [18:22:08] <mru> it can still be less hassle overall
  • [18:22:33] <ds2> I'd disagree on that
  • [18:22:57] <ds2> granted, the applications where a 1M system is used doesn't include a frame buffer
  • [18:27:28] * sylarpowa (~5ff8f9f4@gateway/web/freenode/x-mgoraxjrsmieexzu) has joined #beagle
  • [18:27:44] <sylarpowa> hi, I am having a problem with the beagle, the usb host isn't working :\ anyone could help me please?
  • [18:28:12] * RazZziel (~raziel@63.93.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com) has joined #beagle
  • [18:30:06] <aholler> maybe a whip could help
  • [18:30:39] <aholler> sorry, couldn't resist ;)
  • [18:31:05] <sylarpowa> adh..
  • [18:32:11] <sylarpowa> aholler: thanks for your suggestion, really useful
  • [18:32:23] <aholler> you could turn the power on
  • [18:32:26] <aholler> better?
  • [18:33:15] <sylarpowa> aholler: .. the whole thing is powered on
  • [18:35:56] <aholler> how?
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  • [19:55:37] <ds2> emeb: =)
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  • [20:02:02] <topfs2_> drinkcat, how did you get out the red and the green wire? I have gotten the upper part that holds the wire apart but the lower one just won't budge :)
  • [20:04:29] * jonrp (~Dead1nsid@78.86.212.180) has joined #beagle
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  • [20:08:45] <emeb> ds2: saw my post on the ML? :)
  • [20:09:06] * pixelite (~44e09f9e@gateway/web/freenode/x-pnhmxukbzxobqjww) has joined #beagle
  • [20:10:21] * Artanis (Artanis@159.108.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com) has joined #beagle
  • [20:12:49] <drinkcat> topfs2_: just cut the green
  • [20:13:14] <topfs2_> ah you did it that way
  • [20:13:15] <topfs2_> smart :)
  • [20:14:10] <drinkcat> no I didn't
  • [20:14:22] <drinkcat> because I didn't know which one to cut ,-)
  • [20:14:44] <drinkcat> but since you have the info, you're lucky ,-)
  • [20:17:28] <topfs2_> unless the colors are wrong on mine :)
  • [20:17:37] <topfs2_> but the others matched up so I'm gonna give it a go :)
  • [20:18:13] <topfs2_> worst case I'll cut both and freaking led the correct cable there :)
  • [20:19:01] * DanaG (~dana@pcp057437pcs.wireless.calpoly.edu) has joined #beagle
  • [20:20:10] * kulve (~kulve@humboldt.pingu.fi) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  • [20:20:18] <drinkcat> (beware: if you cut the wrong one, it explodes ,-))
  • [20:22:00] * kulve (~kulve@humboldt.pingu.fi) has joined #beagle
  • [20:22:50] <topfs2_> *bang*
  • [20:23:25] * mobidev (~mobidev@94.127.205.30) Quit (Quit: I go offline...)
  • [20:24:21] <koen> hmmm
  • [20:24:42] <koen> I went to the kitchen to get beer and thought "I need to do ... for gsoc"
  • [20:24:52] <koen> but I forgot what ... was
  • [20:25:30] <topfs2_> fix the memory corruption?
  • [20:25:34] <topfs2_> :)
  • [20:25:41] * torpor (~w1x@91-113-85-251.adsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  • [20:26:00] <_av500_> good one
  • [20:28:23] * alancam (~a-campbel@nat/ti/x-uxderdeqhnkyyxhf) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  • [20:28:50] <denix> koen: ...drink beer...?
  • [20:29:42] <denix> you can be a mentor for drinking beer! :)
  • [20:30:31] * koen choose cider instead
  • [20:32:03] * mrc3_ (~mrc3@nat/ti/x-vqttmriieekcixlh) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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  • [20:32:42] <muriani> Cider-mentoring!
  • [20:33:30] <_av500_> the rise of the cider-men
  • [20:33:44] <emeb> cider = yum
  • [20:34:01] <koen> hmm, maybe I should try to get DVB decoding handled by the DSP on beagle
  • [20:34:16] * koen is NOT going to try building libvpx
  • [20:34:35] <_av500_> its easy
  • [20:34:50] <_av500_> but libvpx will not decode dvb
  • [20:35:15] <_av500_> koen: what is the issue with dvb? works fine with omap3...
  • [20:35:23] <_av500_> dvbt at least
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  • [20:41:03] <tom__> anyone tried 720p H.264 video with using the DSP gstreamer plugin or anything using the DSP?
  • [20:41:25] * Artanis (Artanis@159.108.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  • [20:42:00] <_av500_> yes
  • [20:42:25] <_av500_> it work with "something" using the dsp
  • [20:43:16] <topfs2_> bwuhaha drinkcat worked here aswell :D
  • [20:44:04] * robtow (~rob@12.156.66.34) has joined #beagle
  • [20:44:06] <drinkcat> topfs2_: great ,-)
  • [20:44:18] * rhk (~rhk@adsl-75-44-25-53.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net) has joined #beagle
  • [20:44:26] <_av500_> tom__: if you want to decode 720p h264 at MP or HP, atm only commercial solutions exist
  • [20:45:50] <koen> _av500_: the avc-hd dvb uses, is that HP?
  • [20:46:09] <_av500_> i guess so
  • [20:46:13] * Artanis (Artanis@159.108.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com) has joined #beagle
  • [20:46:30] <_av500_> its 1080p as well, no?
  • [20:46:44] <_av500_> which is nogo on omap3
  • [20:47:27] <_av500_> broadcasters care about bandwidth so they use the highest compression settings
  • [20:47:36] <koen> _av500_: 720p or 1080i over here
  • [20:47:42] <_av500_> k
  • [20:47:55] <_av500_> it all depends on the bitrate
  • [20:48:18] * RobotGrrl (~RobotGrrl@bas2-montreal50-1176032947.dsl.bell.ca) Quit (Quit: RobotGrrl)
  • [20:48:26] <_av500_> but broadcasters tend to use nasty stff like CABAC
  • [20:48:52] <_av500_> which is ok for STBs with hw decoders
  • [20:48:57] * koen glues on an omap4 onto the beagle
  • [20:49:17] * likewise (~likewise@82-171-51-231.ip.telfort.nl) has joined #beagle
  • [20:50:02] <_av500_> good luck
  • [20:50:17] <emeb> koen: Looks like I need to tweak mux34xx.c to add GPIO144-146 to the list of things we can touch
  • [20:52:46] <_av500_> yes
  • [20:56:47] <koen> emeb: you'd have to ask crofton, but iirc the mux stuff got improved in .33
  • [20:57:26] <emeb> koen: cool. I'm still on .32 tho, so that's what I'll work with today.
  • [20:58:51] <tom__> av500: is there any H.264 720p decoder that is closed-source but free?
  • [20:59:06] <_av500_> no
  • [21:00:33] <_av500_> err
  • [21:00:40] <tom__> so even the DVDSK stuff won't help me with that?
  • [21:00:42] <_av500_> ti gives some free decoders
  • [21:00:52] <_av500_> but they dont do 720p hp
  • [21:00:59] <_av500_> afaik only bp
  • [21:01:42] <_av500_> tom__: what is your use case?
  • [21:01:45] * DanaG (~dana@pcp057437pcs.wireless.calpoly.edu) Quit (Disconnected by services)
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  • [21:01:49] <tom__> ah I see, this is frustrating since their advertising leads me to believe that it does.
  • [21:02:12] <_av500_> which one?
  • [21:02:23] <tom__> xbmc / mythtv box, I have the beagleboard clone Devkit8000
  • [21:02:55] <tom__> I can clock it up to 720 MHz, but
  • [21:03:04] <tom__> "its lifetime is severally affected"
  • [21:03:11] <_av500_> if u dont controll the content, you need to play what is out there
  • [21:03:32] <_av500_> and that is mostly h264 hp at high bitrates
  • [21:03:46] <_av500_> tom__: it barely works at 800mht
  • [21:03:49] <_av500_> tom__: it barely works at 800mhz
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  • [21:04:52] <tom__> any devboard you can suggest that is similar to beagleboard but with a hardware H.264 decoder, or at least a proc that is capable of 720p for < $200
  • [21:04:59] <_av500_> if you control the content you can pick something like mpeg4 at 720p
  • [21:05:25] <_av500_> tom__: wd tv live? :)
  • [21:05:49] <_av500_> there are products that play even 1080 for <200$
  • [21:05:58] <tom__> can I get access to it: install ubuntu or debian and can ssh to it
  • [21:06:05] <_av500_> i doubt it
  • [21:06:17] <likewise> tom__: hard to find a single dev board for that price. Indeed 1080 < $100 even, mostly Sigma Design chips I presume.
  • [21:06:19] <_av500_> wd tv live is a sigma thing
  • [21:06:41] <_av500_> there is also popcorn hour
  • [21:06:57] <_av500_> that one is hackable, see lates hardwarebug.org
  • [21:07:01] <_av500_> lastest
  • [21:07:04] <_av500_> latest
  • [21:07:07] <likewise> To what extend can we hack a Sigma Design based product nowadays, i.e. how much of the s/w is closed?
  • [21:07:19] * _av500_ not sigma :)
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  • [21:07:35] <_av500_> no idea
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  • [21:07:44] <tom__> I'll look into popcorn hour, have heard good things, but need to know how hackable it is.
  • [21:07:45] * DanaG (~dana@pcp057437pcs.wireless.calpoly.edu) has joined #beagle
  • [21:08:12] <koen> check mrus blog for that
  • [21:08:27] <tom__> so no hope for the DSP or NEON extensions for beagleboard to decode 720p H.264 then, sad but reality I guess
  • [21:08:34] <likewise> cool, they put kexec support in a module to bootstrap their own kernel
  • [21:09:00] <_av500_> tom__: http://hardwarebug.org/2010/05/03/hacking-the-popcorn-hour-c-200/
  • [21:09:49] <_av500_> tom__: as i said, with the 800mhz part, fully using the arm and the dsp you can barely play h264 720p HP at 24 fps
  • [21:10:19] <tom__> that looks good, but the $300 pricetag is more than a Nvidia ION system with dual core atom
  • [21:10:26] <koen> and with 1000GHz arm and 800MHz DSP?
  • [21:10:31] <koen> ehm
  • [21:10:32] <koen> 1GHz
  • [21:10:43] * bearsh (~quassel@adsl-245-48-fixip.datacomm.ch) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  • [21:11:20] <_av500_> koen: tell you soon :)
  • [21:11:26] <koen> :)
  • [21:11:37] <_av500_> also having the 200mhz ram should help
  • [21:11:54] * bearsh (~quassel@adsl-245-48-fixip.datacomm.ch) has joined #beagle
  • [21:11:59] <_av500_> tom__: see, thats the point
  • [21:12:30] <_av500_> with an ion system for 200, why do you need anything else for a mythtv box?
  • [21:14:24] <aholler> there are many linux-based hd-streamer for around 100???
  • [21:15:07] <_av500_> but do they usually have a fast cpu?
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  • [21:15:30] <tom__> I know, but you need a dedicated box for transcoding, so there 100??? systems are usually not autonomous
  • [21:15:48] <_av500_> why?
  • [21:16:08] <tom__> most require you to install a program on a PC to stream via samba and transcode
  • [21:16:13] * CruNcher (~luls_lol@dslb-088-068-132-032.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #beagle
  • [21:16:23] <_av500_> hmm
  • [21:16:25] <tom__> so the PC does the heavy lifting, the streamer is like a network video card
  • [21:16:39] <_av500_> well, wd tv plays 1080p
  • [21:16:43] <_av500_> no need to transcode
  • [21:16:55] <aholler> freeagent theater too
  • [21:16:59] <tom__> is it possible to add an expansion board and add a sigma decoder to it?
  • [21:17:01] <aholler> theater+
  • [21:17:13] <tom__> that could sell like hot-cakes
  • [21:17:19] <_av500_> tom__: to what?
  • [21:17:28] <tom__> to the beagleboard or some clone
  • [21:17:44] <_av500_> well, then use just the sigma
  • [21:18:05] <_av500_> or the popcorn cpu
  • [21:18:20] <tom__> I bet the sigma chip itself is < $20
  • [21:18:43] <likewise> tom__: sure if you buy enough it'll be <$10 even
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  • [21:18:59] <_av500_> 9.99
  • [21:19:08] <likewise> tom__: Broadcom has their CrystalHD PCIe module
  • [21:19:23] <likewise> tom__: but then you'ld need PCIe on the host SoC
  • [21:20:41] <tom__> I actually was just thinking about that pcie module, and have one on my desk
  • [21:21:29] <tom__> any beagleboard clone with PCIE? I don't think any OMAP chip has pcie capabilities
  • [21:21:47] <mru> no, omap doesn't have pcie
  • [21:22:04] <mru> expansion slots in phones are mostly unheard of
  • [21:22:25] <_av500_> emeb can cook up an fpga though :)
  • [21:22:37] <tom__> very true. I guess I'll research tv streaming boxes, some can be had for $50. Any wiki that summarizes them all?
  • [21:22:52] <_av500_> tom__: the one you write?
  • [21:23:11] <tom__> I guess that's the one I will be referring to
  • [21:23:48] <tom__> sigma designs has extensive android support.
  • [21:24:22] <mru> sigma is awful
  • [21:24:27] <tom__> In the meantime, what is the best codec that I should transcode my stuff to so the beagle could display 720p? mpeg 4?
  • [21:24:54] <tom__> mru: really? I'm looking at their [sigma] android support brochure
  • [21:25:04] <mru> believe me, sigma is awful
  • [21:25:30] <tom__> I just want something that I could possibly interface the beagle with, that can do H.264 for < $40
  • [21:25:40] <mru> you cannot even buy a dev board without ordering thousands of chips or something
  • [21:25:48] <mru> everything is locked down and secret
  • [21:26:22] <mru> TI is a much nicer company
  • [21:26:40] <_av500_> tom__: dm368
  • [21:26:58] <mru> or omap4 when it arrives
  • [21:27:07] <mru> or netra
  • [21:27:22] <_av500_> or dm6467
  • [21:27:49] <_av500_> aka dm700 aka davinci hd
  • [21:27:56] <tom__> thank you, I will look into it and try to make a wiki about all this
  • [21:28:34] <tom__> any plans for a omap4 beagle board
  • [21:29:47] <mru> there will most likely be something
  • [21:30:01] <tom__> "with production expected by the second half of 2010." omap4 press release circa 02/2009
  • [21:30:47] <mru> that could happen
  • [21:30:55] <mru> I don't know what the current status is
  • [21:31:06] <mru> and if I did, I wouldn't be allowed to tell
  • [21:31:20] <tom__> so in the meantime, what codec to transcode to? so the beagle would display 720p
  • [21:31:34] <_av500_> mpeg4
  • [21:31:40] * jconnolly is now known as jconnolly|away
  • [21:31:49] <mru> unless you want to pay for codecs
  • [21:31:49] <_av500_> or h264 bp
  • [21:32:02] * mrc3_ (~mrc3@nat/ti/x-qsnfpaaicprldzzn) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [21:32:03] <mru> I've no idea how much those codecs cost though
  • [21:32:10] <mru> probably only commercial licences too
  • [21:32:12] <tom__> my money doesn't like codecs
  • [21:32:15] <_av500_> yep
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  • [21:32:31] <_av500_> they are not sold in single pieces
  • [21:33:00] <tom__> isn't mpeg4 a wrapper, that includes divx, xvid...
  • [21:33:55] <mru> divx and xvid are implementations of the mpeg4 standard
  • [21:34:01] <mru> they like to pretend otherwise of course
  • [21:34:22] <tom__> k, so has I'll try to transcode BigBuckBunny to mp4 and try to test
  • [21:34:46] * Sirisian (~Sirisian@adsl-69-208-85-203.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net) has joined #beagle
  • [21:34:50] <mru> the 720p mpeg4 bbb from the website should play as is
  • [21:34:59] * RobotGrrl (~RobotGrrl@bas2-montreal50-1176032947.dsl.bell.ca) Quit (Quit: RobotGrrl)
  • [21:35:32] <mru> http://mirror.bigbuckbunny.de/peach/bigbuckbunny_movies/big_buck_bunny_720p_surround.avi
  • [21:39:45] <tom__> mru: thank you, were you at ESC 2010?
  • [21:39:53] <mru> no
  • [21:41:48] <mru> I'll be at linuxtag
  • [21:41:57] <Crofton|work> ESC in Jan Jose?
  • [21:42:12] <tom__> yes
  • [21:42:20] <Crofton|work> I was there for a bit :)
  • [21:42:51] <tom__> it was alright, nothing too special, they keep declining in size and quality
  • [21:43:08] <tom__> linuxtag is in berlin, can't make that unfortunately
  • [21:43:17] <mru> berlin is nice
  • [21:43:20] <mru> Crofton|work: you coming?
  • [21:43:44] <Crofton|work> I can't make linuxtag
  • [21:43:56] <Crofton|work> I have to go to Frankfurt in later June
  • [21:44:11] <mru> sounds like perfect combo-trip
  • [21:44:39] <_av500_> Crofton|work: ping me what going to fra
  • [21:44:46] <_av500_> whewn
  • [21:44:49] <_av500_> when
  • [21:44:52] <_av500_> damn
  • [21:45:01] <Crofton|work> heh
  • [21:45:33] <Crofton|work> http://groups.sdrforum.org/index.php?mo=cm&op=ld&fid=21
  • [21:45:35] * mru is now known as _troll_
  • [21:45:45] <tom__> any benchmarks of armv5 vs armv7 gcc (Sans NEON)? I can't seem to find anything even on phronix [running on the same proc that is]
  • [21:46:42] <_troll_> that question is meaningless
  • [21:47:01] <_troll_> it's easily possible to build an armv5 cpu and an armv7 where the former is faster
  • [21:47:15] <_troll_> you need to be comparing specific cores
  • [21:47:16] <tom__> no, just gcc benchmarks
  • [21:47:24] <likewise> \kick _troll_ :-)
  • [21:47:27] <_troll_> oh, gcc flags
  • [21:47:28] * Sirisian_ (~Sirisian@adsl-69-208-86-84.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net) has joined #beagle
  • [21:47:48] <tom__> debian is armv4 or armv5 I believe and ubuntu is armv7
  • [21:48:03] <_troll_> gcc just might be a bit too stupid to make a big difference
  • [21:48:23] <_troll_> last I checked, it had no idea armv6 and later can do unaligned memory accesses
  • [21:48:28] <tom__> just wanted to know if it matters and by how much. Thinking of compiling the phronix test suite and trying
  • [21:48:50] <_troll_> test suites are rubbish
  • [21:48:56] <_troll_> compile something real instead
  • [21:48:59] <_troll_> ffmpeg is a good choice
  • [21:49:16] <tom__> good call, will try that and report back
  • [21:49:34] <_troll_> beware of floating-point
  • [21:49:55] <tom__> no neon, and soft float only
  • [21:50:38] * Sirisian (~Sirisian@adsl-69-208-85-203.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  • [21:50:55] <_troll_> softfloat is stupid
  • [21:50:59] <_troll_> if you have hardfloat
  • [21:51:05] * _troll_ is now known as mru
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  • [21:54:31] <tom__> hmm, my omapfbplay is not playing the mpeg4 bbb avi at 24, it dips down to 17fps, wondering what to do
  • [21:55:28] <mru> use more -b
  • [21:55:36] <mru> how much ram do you have free?
  • [21:56:38] <tom__> 70MB free
  • [21:56:47] <_av500_> also, run the bb at 600
  • [21:56:48] <mru> hmm
  • [21:56:55] <mru> running much stuff?
  • [21:57:16] <tom__> I did run X, so I'll restart just in case
  • [21:57:30] <mru> run at a text console
  • [21:57:33] <tom__> ok, so I have to recompile U-boot for 600MHz, or can I cat something to sysfs /
  • [21:57:40] <mru> which beagle?
  • [21:57:43] <mru> 256MB version?
  • [21:57:48] <tom__> I have the devkit8000 clone 256MB
  • [21:57:59] <tom__> it's running at 500mhz now
  • [21:58:03] <mru> jack that up a bit
  • [21:58:14] <mru> and use -b as_much_as_possible
  • [21:58:46] <mru> do you have swap enabled?
  • [21:58:51] <tom__> no swap I believbe
  • [21:58:54] <mru> good
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  • [21:58:58] <_av500_> tom__: but u still have no audio decoding
  • [21:59:03] <mru> then you won't start swapping...
  • [21:59:19] <_av500_> hd-swap
  • [21:59:53] <mru> btw, whatever happened to double definition video?
  • [22:00:06] <mru> at least they're starting to do double sided now
  • [22:00:51] <tom__> so how to overclock to 600MHz? u-boot parameter?
  • [22:01:03] <mru> mpurate=600 with recent kernels
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  • [22:13:30] <tom__> hmm, my 2.6.34rc7 kernel is still at 500MHz when mpurate=600 [Clocking rate (Crystal/Core/MPU): 26.0/266/500 MHz]
  • [22:13:47] <tom__> dpll3_m2_clk rate change failed: -22
  • [22:14:36] <tom__> n/m, I think it is working. /proc/cpuinfo does not report CPU freq, should add it [Switched to new clocking rate (Crystal/Core/MPU): 26.0/600/266 MHz]
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  • [22:28:00] <Cosmo> well, i've been playing with the beagle quite alot over the last few weeks
  • [22:28:05] <Cosmo> and i like it alot, but it just seems too unstable 8(
  • [22:28:38] * jrmuizel (~jrmuizel@mozca02.ca.mozilla.com) Quit (Quit: jrmuizel)
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  • [22:34:34] * neo01124 (~neo@122.163.103.175) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [22:35:03] <tom__> cosmo: what kind of stability issues? kernel oops?
  • [22:35:09] * emeb having big fun ( :P ) plowing through the 2.6.32 mux code to figure out why I can't use GPIO144-146
  • [22:35:33] <emeb> Looks like they have to be setup for GPIO by u-boot or the kernel will ignore them.
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  • [22:35:54] <_av500_> i dont see why
  • [22:36:09] <_av500_> its not like uboot can lock the mux
  • [22:36:22] * bearsh (~quassel@adsl-245-48-fixip.datacomm.ch) Quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
  • [22:36:37] <emeb> there's specific code in mach-omap2/mux.c that skips over pins that aren't set to gpio by u-boot.
  • [22:37:04] <_av500_> how does it know?
  • [22:37:20] <emeb> the kernel keeps a list of gpio pins it can use.
  • [22:37:30] <_av500_> so, extend it
  • [22:37:34] <emeb> when setting up the list, it skips pins that the bootloader didn't set up
  • [22:37:50] <emeb> could just comment that out I suppose
  • [22:38:49] <emeb> might be safer to add the ones I want to u-boot tho...
  • [22:39:29] * eAndrius (~andr@88-222-169-44.meganet.lt) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
  • [22:40:04] <_av500_> sure, depend on 2 pieces of sw instead of one
  • [22:40:30] <_av500_> just make sure whoever uses your sw also has your uboot
  • [22:40:46] <emeb> there's that, but who knows what intended consequences are of modifying that lock-out code.
  • [22:41:01] <emeb> s/intended/unintended/
  • [22:41:03] <_av500_> i see none
  • [22:41:44] <emeb> if there's other code in the kernel that tries to tweak dangerous gpio and currently fails but succeeds after I remove the lockout?
  • [22:42:30] <_av500_> what fn is that ?
  • [22:43:15] <emeb> static void __init omap_mux_init_list(struct omap_mux *superset)
  • [22:43:31] <emeb> the code inside of #ifndef CONFIG_OMAP_MUX
  • [22:44:14] <_av500_> ah, thats the new muxing code
  • [22:44:21] <_av500_> no experience with this one
  • [22:44:46] <emeb> I'll try disabling the check & see what happens - worst is I have to rebuild my SD card. :)
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  • [22:46:21] <_av500_> emeb: i dont know when that code runs, but if your board file is earlier, you could mux the gpios there
  • [22:46:32] <_av500_> then this code will assume them as muxed by bootloader
  • [22:46:35] <Cosmo> well tom__
  • [22:46:40] <Cosmo> it just seems that the USB keeps falling over
  • [22:46:51] <_av500_> ehic or otg?
  • [22:46:54] <Cosmo> or doesn't power up correctly when the board comes up
  • [22:47:02] <Cosmo> i have to use OTG because EHCI has a know issue with this board revision
  • [22:47:04] <Cosmo> that's even worse
  • [22:47:14] <emeb> _av500_: that code is run at the start of the board init routine.
  • [22:47:22] <_av500_> emeb: oic
  • [22:47:43] <Cosmo> it might be that it just really doesn't like cheap USB devices
  • [22:47:49] <emeb> I could move my code before it & force those GPIOs on I suppose
  • [22:47:53] <Cosmo> as i'm using fairly cheap USB ethernet adapters and a hub
  • [22:47:54] <_av500_> emeb: as usual, they did not ask me before they make new linux kernel :)
  • [22:48:01] <emeb> me either.
  • [22:48:29] <emeb> w00t! It worked.
  • [22:48:48] <emeb> (commenting out the check)
  • [22:48:55] * RobotGrrl (~RobotGrrl@bas2-montreal50-1176032947.dsl.bell.ca) Quit (Quit: RobotGrrl)
  • [22:49:20] <emeb> was able to force the pins to GPIO mode & use them in my user space test prog.
  • [22:49:30] <_av500_> emeb: if there is random code in the kernel that will now use these gpios, then there is a big problem indeed...
  • [22:49:40] <emeb> yup.
  • [22:50:07] <emeb> There is a printk() that logs when there are failures to access the list.
  • [22:50:08] * gdm (~gdm@190.55.34.222) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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  • [22:50:53] <emeb> could re-enable the check and grep the log for that warning msg. Might track down any places that try&fail to access disabled gpio.
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  • [22:51:11] <_av500_> that should be a bug_on()
  • [22:51:28] <emeb> ideally6
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  • [22:51:45] <_av500_> a driver uses hw resources that it got from somewhere, not just like that
  • [22:51:52] <tom__> cosmo: I just saw a report that USB otg does not work for devkit8000 clone, for 2.6.34rc7
  • [22:52:13] <aholler> hmm, building qt-webkit on the beagle (256mb) is possible, it just needs some swap and a week ;)
  • [22:52:24] <_av500_> gee
  • [22:52:25] <tom__> cosmo: try another git repo / branch for the kernel, their support for USB and the like vary greatly
  • [22:52:51] <_av500_> at and webkit should both cross compile
  • [22:52:52] <tom__> I've had to try ~7 kernels to get something my DVI to work right. bloody hell sometimes.
  • [22:52:58] <_av500_> qt and ...
  • [22:53:21] <aholler> shure, just wanted to know how long it takes to link that thing
  • [22:53:30] <_av500_> k
  • [22:53:36] <_av500_> gn
  • [22:53:40] <emeb> gn
  • [22:53:49] <tom__> gn av500, thank for the help
  • [22:54:06] <aholler> womdering what they have don, that it needs that long. using only globals or such ;)
  • [22:56:07] <aholler> never before got such a problem linking stuff. normaly templated c++ code breaks the memory, but during linking is new to me
  • [22:56:31] <aholler> s/templated/compiling templated/
  • [22:58:46] <aholler> now I have a security problem because webkit just got an update ;)
  • [23:02:13] <aholler> maybe they are java-programmers, every small class got his own file. must have a look at it sometimes ;)
  • [23:04:07] * cbrake (~cbrake@oh-69-34-21-229.sta.embarqhsd.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  • [23:04:56] <Cosmo> if you're interested this is what my beagle setup ended up looking like
  • [23:04:56] <Cosmo> http://www.eatmyhat.co.uk/beaglefinal.JPG
  • [23:05:46] * drinkcat (~nicolas@181-162.4-85.cust.bluewin.ch) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  • [23:06:37] <aholler> at least I've found a stable kernel version ;)
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  • [23:15:22] <tom__> cosmo: it could be possible that either the hard drive or ethernet drivers are killing the USB, can you try to isolate one and test stability?
  • [23:15:45] <tom__> plus, what are the kernel messages when USB goes down, have you posted to the mailing list?
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