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  • [02:06:42] <stillson_> what's the deal with connecting a serial line to the beagleboard?
  • [02:08:31] <ds2> ?
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  • [02:10:44] <stillson_> i'm looking at http://code.google.com/p/beagleboard/wiki/BeagleBoardShoppingList
  • [02:10:54] <stillson_> and there is this extra bit from special computing (which isn't available)
  • [02:11:06] <stillson_> DB9M to IDC10F AT/Everex Serial Adapter
  • [02:11:11] <ds2> Oh that
  • [02:11:25] <ds2> the reason it is listed like that is cuz there is 2 common wiring standards out there for those things
  • [02:11:48] <ds2> most PCs use the right one but a few use the wrong one. so rather then go in circles, a known working one is mentioned
  • [02:12:20] <stillson_> I have a working setup for a dm355 eval board, should it be the same?
  • [02:12:41] <ds2> donno about the 355, I know the OMAP3SDP and OMAP3Zoom use the wrong one
  • [02:13:00] <ds2> best thing to do is check it with a DMM (ohmmeter)
  • [02:13:26] <stillson_> check what?
  • [02:13:30] <ds2> the wiring
  • [02:13:31] <stillson_> (i have a dmm)
  • [02:13:43] <ds2> see if it matches what is described in the HRM
  • [02:14:04] <stillson_> HRM?
  • [02:14:25] <ds2> Hardware Reference Manual
  • [02:14:31] <ds2> it is the (only?) manual for the beagle board
  • [02:15:04] <stillson_> cool
  • [02:15:24] <stillson_> then I shall move ahead with my order and fix it later if needed
  • [02:16:09] <ds2> depending on well equiped your junkbox/lab is, you might have a lot of the stuff
  • [02:16:47] <stillson_> It's pretty well equipped (with junk :) )
  • [02:20:04] <stillson_> order away
  • [02:20:12] <stillson_> I will soon get to be a real beagle programmer like all of you guys :)
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  • [03:26:20] <nooomem> yo guys, I need a list of beagleboard accessories for a beginner (what should I buy to have network peripherals, etc)
  • [03:26:26] <nooomem> is there such a well-documented list?
  • [03:26:30] <nooomem> with shopping links?
  • [03:29:47] <jkridner|work> good morning all.
  • [03:30:28] <jkridner|work> nooomem: I have a list of recommended peripherals at http://beagleboard.org/hardware near the bottom of the page.
  • [03:30:58] <jkridner|work> This didn't seem good enough to some people, so http://code.google.com/p/beagleboard/wiki/BeagleBoardShoppingList was created.
  • [03:31:13] <nooomem> there we go
  • [03:31:17] <nooomem> that's what I was looking for
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  • [03:33:34] <jkridner|work> http://elinux.org/BeagleBoardBeginners is work on a beginner's guide.
  • [03:35:33] <nooomem> that shopping list is killer
  • [03:38:15] <jkridner|work> many things you might already have.
  • [03:40:11] <nooomem> yes, but it's especially good for a birthday shopping list :)
  • [03:40:42] <nooomem> I want the right things this birthday :)
  • [03:41:00] <nooomem> you want to get me something? that's nice! make sure it's on this page first!
  • [03:43:41] <ds2> careful scavaging can find those things cheaper
  • [03:44:42] <nooomem> cool, btw, how fast is a lean boot of linux on this board?
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  • [03:48:21] <ds2> probally as little as 2-3 seconds
  • [03:49:14] <nooomem> holy shit
  • [03:49:55] <nooomem> I wanted to do a small initial project of running a small random music player of any music found on a connected hard drive after it is done booting up
  • [03:50:35] <nooomem> even a 15 second boot is admissible for that!
  • [03:50:42] <ds2> indexing the drive make take time
  • [03:52:03] <nooomem> well, indexing can be backgrounded
  • [03:52:39] <nooomem> and done one time and then redone every 4 failures or a few days, whichever comes first
  • [03:53:01] <ds2> of course this assumes you know what you are doing
  • [03:55:01] <nooomem> yeah, this is a really cool little box. I wonder though, if I wanted to do some kind of visual screensaver type visualization after the box is booted up, would I need to run some window manager with an autorun like with a normal box or would there be some quicker way of getting to draw stuff on the screen without fully loading a manager?
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  • [04:02:19] <jkridner|work> you can draw to the screen directly using the framebuffer without even using X.
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  • [05:08:59] <thephilosopher> some people active ?
  • [05:09:57] <AV500> some
  • [05:14:26] <thephilosopher> just stumbled upon the beagle baord seems interresting
  • [05:14:36] <thephilosopher> how about the tools ...?
  • [05:14:53] <AV500> like?
  • [05:15:03] <AV500> most people seem to use openembedded
  • [05:15:14] <AV500> toolchain is there, kernel is there
  • [05:15:23] <AV500> what else do you need?
  • [05:16:05] <thephilosopher> would be nice to have some ide integration
  • [05:16:13] <thephilosopher> like an eclispe plugin of something
  • [05:16:24] <thephilosopher> plus some graphic and audio libs
  • [05:16:42] <AV500> well, I guess you can make eclipse work with gcc
  • [05:17:02] <AV500> and there are audio and graphics libs for linux that should run on the BB as well.
  • [05:17:11] <thephilosopher> yea
  • [05:17:34] <thephilosopher> but i dint think they optmized for the omap platform...
  • [05:17:47] <thephilosopher> or maybe looking around mamoe would help
  • [05:18:01] <AV500> there is this 3D part of the omap for which there are no open drivers yet
  • [05:18:14] <AV500> and then there is the DSP, also not fully supported yet
  • [05:18:25] <thephilosopher> i see
  • [05:18:39] <thephilosopher> isnt the 3D part opengl ES compliant ?
  • [05:18:41] <kulve> I guess the dsp side is fully supported already? Not just as convenient as it could be..
  • [05:18:55] <AV500> yes, i you have the drivers
  • [05:18:58] <kulve> thephilosopher: it is, but there's no public kernel driver for nor public open gl es stack
  • [05:19:07] <thephilosopher> i see
  • [05:19:08] <kulve> +it
  • [05:19:17] <geist> i think one is pending, but it's not ready yet
  • [05:19:33] <thephilosopher> are all the documentation(on TI) side available ?
  • [05:19:39] <kulve> not all
  • [05:19:41] <kulve> but most
  • [05:19:47] <thephilosopher> i see
  • [05:19:53] <thephilosopher> that what i was afraid of
  • [05:19:53] <kulve> i.e. the 3d isnt'
  • [05:20:12] <geist> specifically the 3d stuff, the usb client, and the pmic (twl4030)
  • [05:20:22] <AV500> usb client?
  • [05:20:22] <geist> the latter is i think coming, the other 2 are from IP that ti doesn't own
  • [05:20:30] <geist> usb device
  • [05:20:31] <thephilosopher> maybe looking areoung the mamoe platform would help
  • [05:20:44] <kulve> thephilosopher: depends what you want to know
  • [05:20:45] <AV500> the mentor usb?
  • [05:20:48] <geist> yah
  • [05:20:53] <geist> though there's a linux driver
  • [05:20:58] <AV500> what is not known there?
  • [05:21:00] <geist> you're just hosed if you want to hack a custom image
  • [05:21:11] <geist> no docs publically available
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  • [05:21:38] <thephilosopher> so what would it take to have some driver for the 3D module ?
  • [05:21:55] <geist> imagination releasing the code or binary
  • [05:22:02] <kulve> thephilosopher: you just have to wait for them to release the open or closed drivers
  • [05:22:08] <geist> i think a binary is pending soon
  • [05:22:19] <geist> i seriously doubt they'll ever release specs for it
  • [05:22:26] <kulve> yep
  • [05:22:34] <AV500> hmm, my TRM has 2 usb controllers described
  • [05:22:51] <geist> AV500: one is host only, other is OTG (device and host)
  • [05:22:51] <thephilosopher> sot= the spec for the powerVR is not available ?
  • [05:23:03] <geist> the OTG one is the the mentor part, no docs publically available
  • [05:23:22] <AV500> ok, so my TRM is not the public one then :-)
  • [05:23:24] <geist> the host is just EHCI/OHCI
  • [05:23:26] <kulve> thephilosopher: yeah, no specs
  • [05:23:37] <geist> AV500: look closely, it wont go over the register details
  • [05:23:41] <thephilosopher> that sucks ...
  • [05:23:54] <kulve> thephilosopher: http://elinux.org/BeagleBoard
  • [05:23:56] <AV500> ah, right
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  • [05:24:00] <kulve> thephilosopher: I guess most of the information is there
  • [05:24:06] <thephilosopher> i see
  • [05:24:10] <geist> i have the mentor docs via work, it's definitely a different manual
  • [05:24:18] <geist> it's really a terrible part, unforunately
  • [05:24:23] <geist> but what can ya do
  • [05:24:32] <thephilosopher> i heard nokia will be opening symbians source code soons
  • [05:24:35] <AV500> I agree, I have them as well, at least from Davinvi
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  • [05:24:53] <thephilosopher> coud they have some interresting drivers ?
  • [05:25:07] <thephilosopher> geist: the mentor docs ?
  • [05:25:08] <geist> i doubt they have 3d drivers either
  • [05:25:11] <geist> not open
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  • [05:25:16] <geist> thephilosopher: yes
  • [05:25:42] <thephilosopher> geist: what do you mean by the mentor doc ? doc of what ?
  • [05:25:49] <AV500> the OTG host
  • [05:25:54] <geist> and device
  • [05:26:07] <geist> the Mentor Graphics USB OTG controller (device and host)
  • [05:26:27] <AV500> but there is an open source driver
  • [05:26:34] <geist> yes, linux fully supports it
  • [05:26:37] <AV500> so who needs the specs
  • [05:26:43] <geist> if you're not using linux
  • [05:26:55] <AV500> why would anybody do that? :-)
  • [05:27:00] <geist> that's what I said before, if you are hacking a custom system you're hosed
  • [05:27:05] * geist does that
  • [05:27:08] <geist> but i have the docs, so it's okay
  • [05:27:11] <AV500> I see
  • [05:28:01] <thephilosopher> i was more interrested by the 3d capability of the omap Soc
  • [05:28:12] <thephilosopher> but since it inst available ...
  • [05:28:18] <geist> yep, that is unobtainable until imagination or TI releases a driver
  • [05:28:23] <geist> which i think is on the way
  • [05:28:35] <geist> you definitely can get your hands on it if you're an actual TI customer
  • [05:28:36] <thephilosopher> geist: why do you think that ?
  • [05:28:49] <geist> because someone here from TI has mentioned it, I believe
  • [05:28:54] <thephilosopher> i see
  • [05:29:08] <geist> i'm sure it'll be binary only, though
  • [05:29:34] <geist> like most 3d core companies, they protect their IP very carefully
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  • [05:29:50] <swetland> also 3D graphics is a huge IP minefield
  • [05:30:16] <geist> yeah, lots of them require you sign docs that say you'll never work on another one again, etc
  • [05:30:19] <swetland> releasing source to your driver risks all kinds of fun side effects
  • [05:30:29] <geist> probably not enforceable, but scares enough folks anyway
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  • [05:31:04] <thephilosopher> geist: i see
  • [05:31:14] <AV500> but the really adventerous can make their own 3D engine on the DSP...
  • [05:31:29] <thephilosopher> AV500: lol yea the really adventurous
  • [05:32:22] <thephilosopher> but can they at least give the GPU ISA if such things exist ?
  • [05:32:28] <AV500> there is the ARM, the NEON, the DSP and the powerVR, if you get all 4 working for you at the same time, I guess the thing justs melts
  • [05:33:01] <geist> 200-300 mA on the input side of the pmic
  • [05:33:04] <swetland> POWERVR! RAR!
  • [05:33:16] <thephilosopher> swetland: ?
  • [05:33:20] <swetland> just sayin'
  • [05:33:27] <geist> i hear you can play chu chu rocket on it
  • [05:33:37] <swetland> makes me think of the dreamcast fondly, yes ^^
  • [05:33:42] <AV500> on the PMIC?
  • [05:34:04] <geist> no, just kidding
  • [05:34:16] <thephilosopher> is there any competive Soc with an openly documented GPU core ?
  • [05:34:22] <thephilosopher> yea my english sucks
  • [05:34:25] <geist> the powervr based core in the omap3 is related to the 3d core in the Dreamcast
  • [05:34:33] <geist> an older powervr based design
  • [05:34:49] <geist> thephilosopher: not that i know. essentially no modern gpu core is openly documented
  • [05:34:56] <swetland> as I'm under nda, I cannot confirm or deny the existence of a full NES implementation in the pmic
  • [05:35:05] <AV500> actually this powerVR is in quite a number of SOCs
  • [05:35:08] <swetland> geist: intel's stuff
  • [05:35:16] <thephilosopher> geist: i see
  • [05:35:26] <AV500> but none is "open"
  • [05:35:28] <geist> AV500: not too many of the SGXes, the MBX shows up a lot
  • [05:35:35] <AV500> yes
  • [05:35:36] <swetland> the docs they released for the 8xx/9xx stuff are pretty complete, I believe
  • [05:35:54] <geist> fair enough, though that's not in a SoC yet
  • [05:36:08] <thephilosopher> so all the 3D stuff i see is all done one the CPU ?
  • [05:36:22] <geist> no, if yo're a TI customer you can get a binary driver for the core
  • [05:36:44] <thephilosopher> geist: i see they do exist they just not open
  • [05:36:45] <geist> or if you're big enough you can probably get the specs for the core from Imagination and hack your own driver
  • [05:36:47] <AV500> you still have to pay for it though
  • [05:37:03] <geist> thephilosopher: well of course. the engineers that designed them presumably wrote it all down
  • [05:37:09] <thephilosopher> yea life of a poor haker is so not fair lol
  • [05:37:41] <AV500> still the poor hacket is been given an Cortex A8 for 149$, not too bad
  • [05:37:46] <geist> gpus is a particularly nasty spot for the lay hacker
  • [05:38:25] <thephilosopher> AV500: yea definitly the price is great
  • [05:38:36] <thephilosopher> sp what are you guys doing with it anyway ?
  • [05:38:45] <AV500> I don't have one
  • [05:38:48] <thephilosopher> with the board i mean
  • [05:38:53] <geist> i mostly sit around on irc and talk about it, as if I have a clue
  • [05:39:03] <AV500> me too
  • [05:39:14] <thephilosopher> geist: AV500 lol
  • [05:39:20] <AV500> but I do use the OMAP3 at work
  • [05:39:29] <geist> AV500: yeah, same here
  • [05:39:32] <thephilosopher> AV500: mind giving some details ?
  • [05:39:51] <geist> the beagle gives me a place to play with it outside of work stuff
  • [05:40:02] <AV500> google av500
  • [05:40:29] <geist> ah, that uses a omap3?
  • [05:40:38] <AV500> not the AV500
  • [05:40:50] <AV500> but the current A5
  • [05:40:51] <geist> yeah that ws released a few years back
  • [05:40:59] <geist> gotcha. you using the 34xx or 35xx?
  • [05:41:23] <AV500> actually, I don't know. TI keeps changing the names under us all the time
  • [05:41:31] <geist> presumably you get 34xx for wireless stuff and 35xx is for everyone else
  • [05:41:42] <geist> was wondering if they sold 34xx for large customers outside of wireless
  • [05:41:45] <AV500> well, we are still "everyone else" I guess
  • [05:42:06] <geist> as far as i can tell it's almost identical to 34xx, just a few pieces of ip removed from 35xx
  • [05:42:15] <AV500> but it could be that we have 34xx actually
  • [05:43:17] <AV500> ok, one the PCB, there is a 3430..
  • [05:43:36] <AV500> so, we must be BIG! :-)
  • [05:43:43] <geist> yay
  • [05:44:01] <AV500> or rather, we was the 1st...
  • [05:44:10] <thephilosopher> AV500: even you guys dont have acess to the GPY specs ?
  • [05:44:43] <AV500> no, coz we do not pay for it
  • [05:45:09] <thephilosopher> i see
  • [05:45:21] <thephilosopher> it s a lot more complicated than i tought
  • [05:45:32] <AV500> yes
  • [05:45:42] <AV500> even with specs :-)
  • [05:46:07] <thephilosopher> so whta the point of the GPU then ...
  • [05:46:15] <thephilosopher> interresting marketing practive
  • [05:46:18] <thephilosopher> pratice
  • [05:46:26] <AV500> why?
  • [05:46:35] <AV500> if you need the ??D, you can have it
  • [05:46:38] <AV500> 3D
  • [05:46:52] <AV500> if you not need it, you don't pay for it, so easy
  • [05:47:00] <thephilosopher> yea but you have to pay form it.. even if you devellope your how driver...
  • [05:47:14] <thephilosopher> i mean you dont pay to have the arm tools chain...
  • [05:47:26] <thephilosopher> i tought the same would be true for the POWERVX
  • [05:47:57] <AV500> yes, you pay the right to use the powervr to ImgTec
  • [05:48:28] <thephilosopher> huh ?
  • [05:48:38] <AV500> you just have the choice to have the SOC with or without it
  • [05:48:46] <AV500> and "with" costs more
  • [05:48:52] <thephilosopher> i see
  • [05:49:07] <thephilosopher> that s an interresting way to see it
  • [05:49:15] <AV500> and on top of that, unless you pay and keep quit, you get no specs
  • [05:49:21] <AV500> quiet
  • [05:49:23] <thephilosopher> so what ahve a board ?
  • [05:49:38] <AV500> ?
  • [05:50:15] <thephilosopher> i eamt who have one
  • [05:50:21] <thephilosopher> meant*
  • [05:51:18] <geist> i have one
  • [05:51:33] <geist> swetland has a beowulf cluster of em, I hear
  • [05:51:49] <thephilosopher> what does he do with it ?
  • [05:52:02] <swetland> got a couple beagle boards and a couple zooms floating around the office
  • [05:52:31] <geist> i think he uses it to buy/sell stuff on EvE
  • [05:52:36] <swetland> we hope to use them on the next generation of the orbital mind control lasers
  • [05:52:43] <geist> he's big into internet spaceship games
  • [05:52:49] <thephilosopher> lol
  • [05:53:17] <fenn> i'm thinking about beagle for a wearable computer
  • [05:53:39] <thephilosopher> is the omap 3 more powerfull that the latest freescale offering ?
  • [05:53:39] <fenn> 2.5W makes it practical to use constantly
  • [05:54:19] <AV500> you'll need to wear more than one to make you socially acceptable though...
  • [05:54:25] <fenn> why?
  • [05:54:30] <AV500> too small :-)
  • [05:55:05] <fenn> hopefully nobody will ever see it
  • [05:55:08] <geist> thephilosopher: far as i know it's the only shipping cortex a8, which at the moment is the fastest shipping ARM
  • [05:55:19] <thephilosopher> ok
  • [05:55:26] <geist> except for potentially an arm11mp + L2 running >= 800Mhz or so
  • [05:55:35] <geist> which may give it a good competition
  • [05:56:34] <swetland> qualcomm's MSM8K scorpion core should be pretty zippy too. not sure exactly where it'll stack up
  • [05:56:39] <jkridner|work> I would expect you to get performance equivalent to >1GHz ARM11 using OMAP3 @ 600MHz.
  • [05:56:55] <jkridner|work> (not including using other processors or optimizing for NEON)
  • [05:57:04] <geist> yeah, probably thereabouts
  • [05:57:18] <swetland> I need to fire up the 8250 and get see what it can do
  • [05:57:19] <geist> I dont have a good comparison to an a11 with an equivalent L2
  • [05:57:38] <geist> the nvidia apx2500 is probably a good comparison
  • [05:58:01] <geist> and i think you can get i.mx31 with a pretty big L2
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  • [06:00:47] <geist> without an L2, the cortex stomps all over an a11. 3430 vs 2430 is most of the time somewhere around 3x or more
  • [06:00:56] <geist> memory intensive stuff runs a *lot* faster
  • [06:01:14] <geist> er I mean with an L2 on the cortex, no L2 on the a11
  • [06:02:39] <thephilosopher> what the purpose of the DSP anyway ?
  • [06:04:33] <geist> video, audio coprocessing
  • [06:04:34] <AV500> it draws power :-)
  • [06:04:41] <AV500> ah, that too
  • [06:04:45] <geist> presumably draws less power doing that than the cortex
  • [06:05:22] <AV500> yes
  • [06:05:55] <geist> otherwise it generally just makes life more difficult
  • [06:06:36] <AV500> well, you need something to keep you busy...
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  • [06:15:22] <chakie_work> heh, looking at the mailing lists i see that the beagle has reached mainstream...
  • [06:16:19] <GeneralAntilles> spamstream
  • [06:16:40] <thephilosopher> lol
  • [06:16:49] <chakie_work> i meant the amount of "how do i do foo? kthxbai"
  • [06:16:57] <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, spam. ;)
  • [06:17:02] <chakie_work> usually with speeling errors and bad grammar
  • [06:17:20] <GeneralAntilles> I like the parts pricing requests from India, personally.
  • [06:17:47] <thephilosopher> geist: but isnt the cortex-8 include some instruction for media processing ?
  • [06:18:08] <chakie_work> GeneralAntilles: or questions like: "Can any one tell me what is the tool and what is the best language to build the GUI for video phone using BeagleBoard??" :)
  • [06:18:17] <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
  • [06:18:37] <GeneralAntilles> thephilosopher, the NEON SIMD stuff you mean?
  • [06:19:21] <thephilosopher> yea dont know the name
  • [06:19:29] <thephilosopher> but sure it is SIMD
  • [06:19:37] <GeneralAntilles> The DSP is less power-hungry and means you don't have to tie up the CPU doing stupid stuff like audio and video decoding. ;)
  • [06:19:57] <thephilosopher> do some one know how effective gcc is in vectorising code ?
  • [06:20:39] <thephilosopher> GeneralAntilles: i heard the dsp doesnt have access to memory to the cpu is required to feed the beast anyway
  • [06:21:43] * GeneralAntilles is qualified to speak to that
  • [06:22:05] <AV500> the dsp can access the same memory as the ARM
  • [06:22:07] <GeneralAntilles> but it definitely drastically improves audio decoding performance and longevity on the Nokia's OMAP2 tablets.
  • [06:22:26] <thephilosopher> i see
  • [06:22:49] <thephilosopher> does the code have to be optimised or the DSP compiler just take care of it
  • [06:23:15] <AV500> programming the C64x is not "easy"
  • [06:23:35] <thephilosopher> AV500: what the tools chain like ? c compiler ?
  • [06:23:41] <AV500> yes
  • [06:23:53] <AV500> but I guess the tricky parts are done in ASM
  • [06:24:12] <swetland> hey, are there docs available for it?
  • [06:24:16] <AV500> but it runs plain C just fine
  • [06:24:21] <swetland> a gcc/binutils target for it?
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  • [06:24:34] <AV500> nope, no gcc, I use the TI toolchain
  • [06:24:49] <AV500> gcc for DSPs was never much, was it?
  • [06:25:10] <thephilosopher> AV500: freely available ?
  • [06:25:54] <AV500> yes, I think TI make an "open source" compatible release of the DSP tools
  • [06:25:55] <thephilosopher> someone here think of getting the pandora device ?
  • [06:26:07] <thephilosopher> AV500: very interesting
  • [06:26:09] <AV500> after Neuros pestered them for it for month
  • [06:26:30] <thephilosopher> GeneralAntilles: did the code need some optimisation for the dsp ?
  • [06:27:19] <AV500> you can port your plain C to the DSP, but in order to make use of the fact that the DSP can execute two instructions at the same time, you'll have to tweak it
  • [06:27:56] <thephilosopher> AV500: i see
  • [06:29:34] <thephilosopher> so let way we take like mp3 source code... a reference implementation
  • [06:29:46] <thephilosopher> compile it target the DSP and the ARM
  • [06:29:49] <geist> but i suspect that just getting stuff onto the dsp is most of the battle
  • [06:30:03] <thephilosopher> the DSP still does it better ?
  • [06:30:11] <geist> back when i used to hack cell processor stuff, it was definitely that way
  • [06:30:28] <geist> just getting code on the vector processors gets you most of the way there, tweaking it is bonus
  • [06:30:34] <swetland> http://focus.ti.com/lit/ug/spru732g/spru732g.pdf
  • [06:30:36] <thephilosopher> geist: why did you stop ?
  • [06:30:45] <geist> because i changed jobs
  • [06:31:52] <thephilosopher> geist: where were you working ?
  • [06:31:58] <thephilosopher> AV500: ?
  • [06:32:09] <AV500> ?
  • [06:32:18] <geist> I was working at Sega at the time, doing PS3 stuff
  • [06:32:48] <thephilosopher> geist: heard that the cell is really a pain in the ass to devellp for... is that true ?
  • [06:32:58] <thephilosopher> AV500 did you see my question ?
  • [06:32:59] <geist> i thought it was a lot of fun
  • [06:33:15] <geist> depends on your comfort level with heavily threaded, distributed stuff
  • [06:33:23] <thephilosopher> geist: heard the tools chain sucks
  • [06:33:30] <thephilosopher> the ps3 one vs 360 stuff
  • [06:33:30] <AV500> thephilosopher: i cannot tell you whether the very same MP3 code runs faster on ARM or DSP
  • [06:33:41] <geist> thephilosopher: gcc vs msvc
  • [06:33:45] <AV500> I would need to try myself
  • [06:33:54] <geist> msvc is pretty good at making it easy on ya
  • [06:33:54] <thephilosopher> AV500: i see
  • [06:34:03] <thephilosopher> how good is the msvc ?
  • [06:34:06] <geist> i was comfortable with it, but lots of game folks arent
  • [06:34:20] <swetland> gamesdev programmers are a buncha whiners ^^
  • [06:34:22] * swetland ducks
  • [06:34:28] <thephilosopher> geist: did you work on the 360 also ?
  • [06:34:31] <thephilosopher> swetland: lol
  • [06:34:32] <geist> it was essentially the difference between hacking windows code vs linux code
  • [06:34:41] <geist> swetland: there's a lot of truth to that
  • [06:34:53] <geist> thephilosopher: yeah
  • [06:35:02] <swetland> "programming is HARD, let's use directx"
  • [06:35:04] <thephilosopher> geist: a freind of mind say that the tools from microsoft are better
  • [06:35:04] <geist> inasmuch as we had a single engine that ran on both platforms
  • [06:35:10] <thephilosopher> swetland: lol
  • [06:35:11] <geist> they are, quite a bit
  • [06:35:36] <geist> hacking 360 code is basically the same as hacking regular windows code. msvc is totally integrated with the device, can debug it in the IDE, etc
  • [06:35:43] <geist> and the msvc compiler is pretty darn good
  • [06:35:48] <swetland> good tools are a plus, and sony is as well-known for crappy tools as microsoft is for good tools
  • [06:36:05] <thephilosopher> swetland: good are ESSENTIAL
  • [06:36:16] <geist> whereas sony's sdk is basically some shared libs, some pdf docs, gcc, some headers, make
  • [06:36:28] <geist> i'm perfectly okay with that, but most folks aren't
  • [06:36:31] <thephilosopher> good tols
  • [06:36:33] <thephilosopher> tools
  • [06:36:45] <thephilosopher> i see the drill
  • [06:36:59] <swetland> yeah, give me a cross compiler, make, and a serial port and I'm a happy camper
  • [06:37:00] <geist> though there are some essentially third party ps3 tools that give you a lot of profiling and debugging info
  • [06:37:08] <geist> those are pretty good, almost as good as the MS versions
  • [06:37:14] <geist> and in some ways better
  • [06:37:24] <thephilosopher> geist: expansive ?
  • [06:37:33] <geist> nah, free
  • [06:37:37] <AV500> serial port, bah, all we need is leds and push buttons, no?
  • [06:37:50] <geist> the big problem is sony didn't have any of it ready at ship time
  • [06:37:53] <thephilosopher> geist: but no ide for the ps3 ?
  • [06:37:58] <geist> so the first year or so it was pretty slim pickins
  • [06:38:09] <geist> thephilosopher: nope, though you can get a msvc plugin that mostly integrates it
  • [06:38:16] <geist> you can't debug in process, but you can compile and edit in it
  • [06:38:31] <thephilosopher> ok
  • [06:38:33] <geist> but i considered that a liability, i much prefer make
  • [06:38:42] <thephilosopher> geist: purist
  • [06:38:52] <geist> much more flexible and reliable
  • [06:38:57] <geist> msvc is a terrible build system
  • [06:42:32] <thephilosopher> geist: so from your point of view ps3 vs x360 wich one is more powerfull ?
  • [06:42:38] <geist> 360
  • [06:42:49] <geist> the gpu stomps the ps3 by a lot
  • [06:43:10] <geist> ps3 potentially has a lot more processing available to it, but still ends up being gpu bound
  • [06:43:27] <geist> so it's potentially better at heavy physics based things, or stuff with a lot of simple stuff to draw
  • [06:45:15] <thephilosopher> cant the the gpu be offloaded on the cpu
  • [06:45:31] <thephilosopher> by rearinging the rendering process ?
  • [06:45:43] <geist> sure, but at some point it's pixel bound
  • [06:45:57] <thephilosopher> interresting
  • [06:46:01] <geist> from an offloading point of vie wyou can usually only offload vertex based stuff
  • [06:46:10] <geist> LOD, skinning, etc
  • [06:46:20] <geist> once you get to pixel shader based stuff, it's more or less all gpu
  • [06:46:38] <thephilosopher> geist: work there for a long time ?
  • [06:46:44] <geist> basically with the cpu you can avoid doing work, but at some point you have to do it
  • [06:46:47] <geist> and then it's up to the gpu
  • [06:46:57] <geist> thephilosopher: about a year
  • [06:48:33] <thephilosopher> is it ease to get a job in embedded systems?
  • [06:48:40] <geist> it didn't help that our games were very pixel shader based
  • [06:48:54] <geist> a lot of our shaders were pretty complicated, 70 passes or so
  • [06:49:01] <geist> which the ps3 gpu was exactly worst at doing
  • [06:50:54] <thephilosopher> geist: can the design of the game be changed to adapt to the ps3 ?
  • [06:51:13] <geist> somewhat, but if you're simultaneously releasing on both platforms, you want them to be as close as possible
  • [06:53:55] <thephilosopher> i see
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  • [07:22:20] <ldesnogu> AV500: just to make it clear to others, " the DSP can execute two instructions at the same time" is true for the C55, for the C64x+ we're talking about 8 instructions per cycle
  • [07:23:23] <AV500> even better :-)
  • [07:24:00] <AV500> yes, I mixed up the C55 and the C64x
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  • [10:47:44] <Crofton|work> gm
  • [11:05:11] <[X]Spot> Crofton|work Hi
  • [11:05:22] <[X]Spot> did you have success with VLC + httpd ?
  • [11:07:05] <Crofton|work> it looks like it buils now
  • [11:07:17] <Crofton|work> we tested yesterday (building only)
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  • [11:11:30] <[X]Spot> what MACHINE type should I set in /OE/build/conf/local.conf
  • [11:11:39] <[X]Spot> for OMAP3 (beagleboard or EVM)
  • [11:12:17] <[X]Spot> http://www.openembedded.org/filebrowser/org.openembedded.dev/conf/machine is missing
  • [11:12:28] <Crofton|work> beagleboard.conf for beagle
  • [11:12:44] <Crofton|work> look in conf/machines/*conf for the name of the omap3evm
  • [11:13:21] <Crofton|work> http://gitweb.openembedded.net/?p=org.openembedded.dev.git;a=tree;f=conf/machine;h=97fafe6515bd97811fa28eb73a582e3305f68fb2;hb=refs/heads/org.openembedded.dev
  • [11:15:50] <[X]Spot> fine, thanks
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  • [11:20:01] <kulve> I'm compiled the kernel from git://source.mvista.com with about the default config but it doesn't see the MMC card I'm trying to boot from. Any hints?
  • [11:21:35] <Crofton|work> I think git has broken mmc atm
  • [11:21:54] <kulve> that isn't nice :(
  • [11:22:02] <kulve> what version/commit should I use?
  • [11:22:29] <Crofton|work> are ou using head?
  • [11:22:39] <Crofton|work> it loks like Tony reverted the offending commit
  • [11:22:48] <Crofton|work> http://source.mvista.com/git/?p=linux-omap-2.6.git;a=commit;h=e1c49d7d22af768188e2a54c167ed79919361e55
  • [11:23:33] <kulve> yes, head, but I updated it day before that one..
  • [11:23:36] <kulve> thx
  • [11:25:19] <Crofton|work> ah
  • [11:47:31] <kulve> Crofton|work: booted nicely with the newer kernel
  • [11:48:13] <kulve> what about usb? Any tricks there? I'm trying to get it working with usb hub and peripherals. I've only succeeded in it with some old precompiled 2.6.22 kernel..
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  • [11:48:24] <kulve> so the usb cables should be ok
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  • [11:59:01] <Crofton|work> that kernel should do usb
  • [11:59:07] <Crofton|work> at least for keyboard
  • [11:59:18] <Crofton|work> there are loads of patches pending I think
  • [12:00:38] <kulve> I don't get any messages when connecting the usb directly to a mouse or to a hub
  • [12:01:01] <kulve> is the kernel configuration for usb otg described somewhere?
  • [12:01:25] <kulve> i.e. what options should I set to get otg working as host (I'm only interested to have it running as host)
  • [12:01:35] <Crofton|work> urg
  • [12:01:49] <Crofton|work> there is a funny cable
  • [12:01:58] <Crofton|work> needed to get otg to go host I think
  • [12:02:05] <Crofton|work> I have the funny cable
  • [12:02:11] <jkridner|work> mini-A.
  • [12:02:19] <jkridner|work> not mini-B.
  • [12:02:20] <kulve> I have mini-a
  • [12:02:30] <kulve> like I said, I get it working with some old 2.6.22 kernel
  • [12:04:46] <jkridner|work> Crofton|work: anybody looked at doing amateur radio with Beagle+USRP?
  • [12:05:00] <jkridner|work> as in, standard HAM bands.
  • [12:05:16] <Crofton|work> usrp's strength is not in the ham bands
  • [12:05:38] <Crofton|work> the dynamic range issue is a problem
  • [12:05:55] <Crofton|work> basically, you need a narrow band duaghterboard for the ham band
  • [12:06:06] <Crofton|work> there are some interesting things you could do
  • [12:09:00] <Crofton|work> I really like the idea of digitizing the CW section of 20 meters (about 150 kHz of bandwidth, so sample at 600kHZ)
  • [12:09:13] <Crofton|work> then find and demod all CW signals in the band
  • [12:09:34] <Crofton|work> you'll need good dynamic range to handle the strong/weak guys
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  • [12:32:53] <[X]Spot> Crofton|work do you have any idea what I get:
  • [12:32:53] <[X]Spot> [root@localhost org.openembedded.stable]# bitbake base-image
  • [12:32:53] <[X]Spot> ERROR: Importing sqlite3 and pysqlite2 failed, please install one of them. Python 2.5 or a 'python-pysqlite2' like package is likely to be what you need.
  • [12:32:55] <[X]Spot> but
  • [12:32:56] <[X]Spot> I have
  • [12:33:10] <[X]Spot> installed it : yum install python-sqlite2
  • [12:33:25] <[X]Spot> PHP 5.2.4
  • [12:34:29] <Crofton> what version?
  • [12:35:35] <[X]Spot> version of OE ?
  • [12:37:46] * cbrake_away is now known as cbrake
  • [12:38:16] <Crofton|work> version of pyswlite
  • [12:38:28] <Crofton|work> hmm
  • [12:38:43] <Crofton|work> maybe ask in #oe also
  • [12:39:17] <[X]Spot> followed the exact instructions here: http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/building-%C3%A5ngstr%C3%B6m
  • [12:39:18] <[X]Spot> Installed: python-sqlite2.i386 1:2.3.3-1.fc7
  • [12:39:20] <[X]Spot> ok
  • [12:39:34] <Crofton|work> you are on f7?
  • [12:39:39] <[X]Spot> f8
  • [12:39:55] <Crofton|work> I am confused by the fc7
  • [12:40:18] <Crofton|work> sqlite-3.4.2-3.fc8
  • [12:40:18] <Crofton|work> sqlite-devel-3.4.2-3.fc8
  • [12:40:18] <Crofton|work> sqlite-3.4.2-3.fc8
  • [12:40:50] <[X]Spot> [root@localhost org.openembedded.stable]# rpm -qa | grep sqlite
  • [12:40:50] <[X]Spot> sqlite-3.4.2-3.fc8
  • [12:40:50] <[X]Spot> python-sqlite2-2.3.3-1.fc7
  • [12:41:15] <Crofton|work> why don't I have python-sqlite?
  • [12:41:39] <[X]Spot> I just installed it
  • [12:41:41] <[X]Spot> I have also :
  • [12:41:45] <[X]Spot> . /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/pysqlite2
  • [12:42:19] <Crofton|work> I don't have it, and I can build fine
  • [12:42:33] <Crofton|work> hopefully someone is awake in #oe
  • [12:42:39] <Crofton|work> I am confused
  • [12:42:41] <[X]Spot> maybe it's enough that you have php 5
  • [12:44:01] <Crofton|work> I can't see what php5 has to do with anything
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  • [12:44:10] <Crofton|work> is that the complete message?
  • [12:45:15] <[X]Spot> Sorry
  • [12:45:19] <[X]Spot> I mean python 2.5
  • [12:45:21] <[X]Spot> my mistake :)
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  • [13:17:25] <kulve> no luck with usb..
  • [13:17:46] * t_s_o (n=tso@135.84-49-129.nextgentel.com) Quit ("Konversation terminated!")
  • [13:17:47] <kulve> anybody here using a very recent kernel and has the otg host side usb working with a usb hub?
  • [13:19:12] <Crofton|work> 9d1dff8638c9e96a401e1885f9948662e9ff9636
  • [13:19:15] <Crofton|work> is what I am using
  • [13:25:29] <kulve> could I get your kernel config for it? :)
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  • [13:46:04] <Crofton|work> kulve, it is on oe
  • [13:46:06] <Crofton|work> hang on
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  • [13:48:01] <Crofton|work> http://gitweb.openembedded.net/?p=org.openembedded.dev.git;a=tree;f=packages/linux/linux-omap/beagleboard;h=4ce542c4d89b98de11108a87a3f5c2c6d6c1de50;hb=cfe308b4d7dffda4fdb2cccc0e9d17f73a12581b
  • [13:51:01] <Crofton|work> kulve, there is my defconfig
  • [13:51:05] <kulve> great, thanks
  • [13:51:32] <kulve> I assume OE doesn't add any patches to the kernel that might affect the usb situation?
  • [13:51:53] <Crofton|work> it might
  • [13:52:26] <Crofton|work> http://gitweb.openembedded.net/?p=org.openembedded.dev.git;a=blob;f=packages/linux/linux-omap_git.bb;h=d9e6c53bf489c3dc805e0f11a61f440d7bf4b55e;hb=cfe308b4d7dffda4fdb2cccc0e9d17f73a12581b
  • [13:54:11] <kulve> musb-mru-otgfix.diff
  • [13:54:13] <kulve> hmm..
  • [13:54:27] <kulve> are those in some git kernel tree also?
  • [13:54:57] <Crofton|work> these apply on top of git
  • [13:55:04] <sakoman> good morning
  • [13:55:24] <Crofton|work> gm
  • [13:55:30] <sakoman> Crofton|work: did a pull and clean build last night & got 2 errors
  • [13:55:41] <Crofton|work> which 2?
  • [13:56:06] <sakoman> libgweather and ggz-client-libs
  • [13:56:17] <kulve> I'll patch my tree and retry tomorrow. Thanks for the pointers
  • [13:56:17] <Crofton|work> hmmm
  • [13:56:29] <Crofton|work> kulve, np
  • [13:56:47] <sakoman> Crofton|work: I'll look into the failures after some coffee :-)
  • [13:56:55] <Crofton|work> ok
  • [13:57:09] <sakoman> this was on my amd64 machine
  • [13:57:10] <Crofton|work> I need to run demo image
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  • [13:57:18] <Crofton|work> but i will need to run it later
  • [13:57:40] <sakoman> it's a good test of oe's chops :-)
  • [13:57:55] <Crofton|work> yeah
  • [13:58:02] <sakoman> back later!
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  • [14:07:43] <Crofton|work> why?
  • [14:10:20] * chakie_ (n=chakie@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe24fa00-230.dhcp.inet.fi) has joined #beagle
  • [14:11:39] * stillson (n=fluffy@duracef.shout.net) has joined #beagle
  • [14:13:39] <stillson> so, it seem that running an irc client will put you under massive attack
  • [14:14:03] <stillson> like someone is scraping addresses off of freenode.net
  • [14:14:31] * thebohemian (n=rschus@p579E19A7.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #beagle
  • [14:15:26] <Crofton|work> you use your real name and email address on irc?
  • [14:16:13] <stillson> i'm not worried about that
  • [14:16:28] <stillson> it's the fact that they can get your real ip address
  • [14:16:44] <stillson> or the address of my router at home
  • [14:16:45] * methril|lunch is now known as methril|gone
  • [14:17:50] <stillson> my router tends to keep an address, so it's getting hit a lot
  • [14:17:57] <stillson> rebooting all the time
  • [14:18:18] <stillson> now, i'm using bitchx from a shell account
  • [14:20:33] <pbrook> stillson: It's standard practice for IRC clients to do basic vulnerability scans on clients to weed out compromised machines.
  • [14:28:46] * zedstar (n=john@82-44-200-69.cable.ubr08.haye.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #beagle
  • [14:34:37] <stillson> wacky
  • [14:35:07] <stillson> i haven't used irc much for about 10 years
  • [14:40:49] <stillson> /help
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  • [15:00:39] <kulve> 18:00 Irssi commands:
  • [15:00:39] <kulve> 18:00 action disconnect knockout notice rping unban
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  • [16:34:48] <N208L1> anyone know how I can suddenly get "-dirty" added to my UTS_RELEASE value? It appears that there is no "-dirty" suffix anywhere in the .config file
  • [16:36:24] <N208L1> nevermind... found it... sorry for the spam
  • [16:41:55] <stillson> how does one get a "dirty" kernel?
  • [16:42:10] <sakoman> Crofton|work: libgweather build completed successfully with a simple rebuild. Perhaps a parallel make issue?
  • [16:42:21] <stillson> were you doinng something odd with your build?
  • [16:43:20] <sakoman> Crofton|work: or perhaps a missing dependency that got satisfied
  • [16:45:49] <sakoman> Crofton|work: on the other hand ggz-client libs still fails with: | configure: error: Internationalization tools missing.
  • [16:46:40] <sakoman> I seem to recall koen saying he fixed that
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  • [17:11:16] <Crofton|work> hmmm, I need to build libgweather from scratch
  • [17:12:41] <koen> sakoman: right, I fixed the m4 macros
  • [17:14:53] <Crofton|work> koen, Geof (on the ml) built Angstrom and changed to the linux-omap kernel and reports success
  • [17:14:59] <Crofton|work> the .27 kernel
  • [17:15:05] <Crofton|work> success with audio
  • [17:15:30] <sakoman> koen: any idea why it might still be failing for me on a clean build?
  • [17:16:12] <koen> sakoman: you'd have to check the config.log
  • [17:16:31] * Openfree (n=df@222.65.132.11) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  • [17:17:18] * koen spent 21 minutes trying to cover 300 meters of highway
  • [17:17:26] <Crofton|work> urg
  • [17:17:34] <Crofton|work> sounds like northern Virginia
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  • [17:18:40] <koen> sadly I needed to do another 150km after those 300 meters
  • [17:19:43] <Crofton|work> ug
  • [17:20:16] <koen> that took 'only' 4 hours
  • [17:20:36] <Crofton|work> you need to come to America
  • [17:20:49] <Crofton|work> we know how to get around by car
  • [17:20:59] <Crofton|work> well, at least in the less populated areas
  • [17:21:14] * N208L1 (n=danson@rrcs-24-153-204-174.sw.biz.rr.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  • [17:21:15] <koen> your speed limit sucks
  • [17:21:29] <koen> at least the ones in florida
  • [17:21:32] <Crofton|work> it is getting better
  • [17:21:43] <mru> autobahn ftw
  • [17:21:50] * koen agress with mru
  • [17:21:58] * koen can't spell either
  • [17:22:04] * N208L1 (n=danson@adsl-209-184-7-130.dsl.austtx.swbell.net) has joined #beagle
  • [17:22:55] * sakoman is an idiot
  • [17:23:12] <sakoman> I could swear I did a pull before the clean build :-(
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  • [17:23:36] <sakoman> But clearly I didn't because I didn't pick up the fix for ggz
  • [17:23:51] <suihkulokki> if that's the definition for idiot, we need new terms for the rest of us
  • [17:24:38] <sakoman> not the definition for idiot, just a symptom :-)
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  • [17:34:07] * chakie_ is now known as chakie
  • [17:34:32] <Crofton> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2008/sep/30/roanoke
  • [17:34:43] <Crofton> I live about 45 minutes from Roanoke :)
  • [17:35:08] * Olipro (n=Olipro@uncyclopedia/Olipro) Quit (No route to host)
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  • [17:48:52] <stillson> my god what a bunch of idiots
  • [17:48:58] <Crofton|work> ?
  • [17:49:26] * banderson (n=irc@63.230.135.220) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  • [17:49:29] * Crofton|work assumes he speaks of American politicians :)
  • [17:50:29] <stillson> the politicians, middle of the road voters who don't bother to figure out what's happening, the whole country
  • [17:50:41] <stillson> and i'm ot so I will shut up
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  • [18:00:02] <jkridner|work> I updated http://beagleboard.org/project/angstrom to include a link to http://elinux.org/BeagleBoardBeginners
  • [18:00:37] * DJWillis (n=djwillis@82-46-19-72.cable.ubr02.bath.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #beagle
  • [18:00:42] <jkridner|work> I'd prefer their be a homepage focused on the project for Beagle, but I kept the homepage pointing to the overall Angstrom homepage.
  • [18:01:01] <jkridner|work> koen can revert if he doesn't like it.
  • [18:01:35] <vlad_> hrm
  • [18:01:45] <vlad_> there's probably no windows mobile build that'll run on beagle, is there?
  • [18:01:51] <vlad_> (or maybe even the logic pd zoom mdk)
  • [18:02:08] <jkridner|work> hrm?
  • [18:05:47] <jkridner|work> not that I know, but I think you can get a start from some 3430 port of WinMobile.
  • [18:06:07] <koen> windows embedded is not the same as windows mobile?
  • [18:06:43] <ds2> ewwwwwwwww
  • [18:12:20] * mru has seen something called "xp embedded"
  • [18:12:32] <mru> it didn't work
  • [18:15:31] <doog> jkridner: The beginners guide is good for getting a standard build installed but is the system ready for that? And are those who are purchasing and using the beagleboard?
  • [18:15:32] <jkridner|work> woohoo, must be getting close to getting a public release of the 3D graphics drivers, since they are now out for the Zoom: http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbugencontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12700&contentId=27458
  • [18:16:54] <doog> jkridner: from my recent experience trying to build Angstrom for Beagle, the OE instructions using git/bitbake worked while the Angstrom mtn/bitbake didn't and they even stated git is the future.
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  • [18:18:31] <doog> jkridner: as far as developing software goes, the Angstrom site has a guide which looks like it'll help getting going on what is needed to write custom code or port existing. I spent way too much time looking through OE stuff for that info.
  • [18:18:52] <keesj> Incredible stuff is happening around TI,3D and Maemo lately. It is really incredible
  • [18:19:34] <jkridner|work> doog: I don't know what you mean by "is the system ready for that".
  • [18:19:50] <ds2> whoever wrote that page is NOT familiar with the Linux stuff at all
  • [18:20:03] <koen> jkridner|work: I wouldn't call that available
  • [18:20:12] <koen> jkridner|work: they can't be downloaded
  • [18:20:19] <mru> ;-)
  • [18:20:39] <ds2> wtf is MVL v2.6
  • [18:20:45] <jkridner|work> doh!
  • [18:21:02] * mru disassembled the beta drivers, and wasn't impressed...
  • [18:21:18] <doog> jkridner: what I mean is reliable and easy enough for general purpose users since I see beginners guide listed without any dev links.
  • [18:21:36] <jkridner|work> I just saw the links. I didn't see that is was still an e-mail link. :(
  • [18:21:48] <ds2> the names used is like an automotive page saying parts for a Ford 4 cylinder
  • [18:22:49] <jkridner|work> doog: there are other places for dev links (http://elinux.org/BeagleBoard#OpenEmbedded). I'll add that.
  • [18:25:58] <doog> jkridner: because I was bounced from the Anstrom site to the OE site for building and then back to Angstrom for the guide for developing, maybe these two links might help:
  • [18:27:01] <doog> jkridner: building - http://elinux.org/BeagleBoardAndOpenEmbeddedGit \n writing code - http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/CompilingYourOwnCode
  • [18:27:57] <ds2> oh crap... does imagemagik build for Angstrom?
  • [18:28:49] <Crofton|work> ds2, probably
  • [18:29:08] <Crofton|work> Installing imagemagick (6.3.5-10-r3) to root...
  • [18:29:09] <Crofton|work> Downloading http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/feeds/2008/ipk/glibc/armv7a/base/imagemagick_6.3.5-10-r3_armv7a.ipk
  • [18:29:12] <doog> there was also stuff missing like using "bitbake -c clean task-base" and then all the base-image, console-image, and x11-image stuff to get a working Anstrom install.
  • [18:29:29] <ds2> I will try that
  • [18:30:08] <ds2> thanks
  • [18:30:19] * magnet__ (n=magnet@AMontpellier-259-1-5-217.w90-37.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  • [18:32:06] <Crofton|work> remind me to only change one thing at a time .....
  • [18:35:02] * _apk (n=kows@85-18-136-98.fastres.net) has joined #beagle
  • [18:35:23] <koen> Crofton|work: I pushed a patch for the soft lockup with usb
  • [18:35:53] <Crofton|work> which kernel linnux-omap or linux-omap2
  • [18:36:08] <Crofton|work> I am solidly in the linux-omap camp at the moment
  • [18:39:08] <koen> linux-omap
  • [18:40:32] <koen> Crofton|work: I have clone instructions on all my OE mirrors: http://ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl/git/
  • [18:42:11] <doog> I just booted x11-image using linux-omap but there's only "out of range" on the LCD. should I not be using Koen's setenv args for a dev build?
  • [18:45:02] <Crofton|work> I don't run x11
  • [18:46:54] <doog> Crofton: are you running GPE or another windowing system?
  • [18:47:09] <koen> jkridner|work: the 'gaming on omap' stuff seems to suffer from what some people like to call 'device feudalism'
  • [18:47:25] <Crofton|work> console :)
  • [18:47:43] <koen> jkridner|work: the SDK should only differffer in kernel-modules, right?
  • [18:47:50] <Crofton|work> I need to get an x11 image going at some point
  • [18:48:08] <koen> jkridner|work: so there can be a single SDK + 2 kernel modules packages
  • [18:48:08] <Crofton|work> koen, is there something that would make x11 image not work?
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  • [18:48:25] <koen> Crofton|work: crappy screens
  • [18:48:38] * koen hugs his iiyama AU5131
  • [18:49:10] <doog> thanks. Unfortunately my first attempts to get this going is to get x2x on this to simplfy moving code and testing and to help others who might want to see what beagle/angstrom can do.
  • [18:49:11] <Crofton|work> doog, does demo-image work for you?
  • [18:49:18] <koen> VA panel, wide sync range, 2x dvi, 1x svideo, I love it
  • [18:49:23] <mru> I don't understand why modern monitors are so strict about timings
  • [18:50:00] <kulve> mru: you seem to have made quite many kernel patches that are in OE but not in e.g. linux-omap?
  • [18:50:16] <kulve> musb-mru-otgfix.diff etc
  • [18:50:31] <koen> the .27 angstrom kernel has NOTE: Applying patch 'mru-make-video-timings-selectable.diff' (/home/koen/OE/monotone/org.openembedded.dev/packages/linux/linux-omap/mru-make-video-timings-selectable.diff)
  • [18:50:32] <mru> is that the "fix something" patch?
  • [18:50:38] <doog> crofton: damn-it, I didn't build that one... I'll start it and see what happens.
  • [18:50:59] <Crofton|work> that one is tough
  • [18:51:25] <Crofton|work> you might try downloading it pre-built, although it is good to get feedback on build errors
  • [18:51:57] <kulve> mru: yes :)
  • [18:52:07] <doog> I know the demo works since I've run Koen's demo and tested with TI's kernel
  • [18:52:08] <DJWillis> koen: what's .27 like these days, worth a look yet?
  • [18:52:21] * felipec (i=c0647cdb@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-e14b9ddc5cf1bd19) Quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
  • [18:52:43] <mru> .27-rc7 is doing well here
  • [18:52:52] <kulve> but there's other patches as well.. And I didn't get usb working with the mvista kernel working and people claim that OE kernel works..
  • [18:53:04] <koen> DJWillis: it's shaping up nicely
  • [18:53:05] <Crofton|work> yeah
  • [18:53:35] <ds2> anyone know what's a "standard" 800x600 refresh rate that is likely to work with a lot of devices?
  • [18:53:46] <doog> crofton: demo-image didn't build saying "Nothing PROVIDES demo-image". ?
  • [18:53:52] <DJWillis> good news guys, been sticking with .26 and a growning McBSP patch set and it's getting on my nerves ;)
  • [18:53:52] <ds2> kulve: which mvista kernel?
  • [18:54:10] <pbrook> ds2: 60Hz is fairly normal.
  • [18:54:32] <pbrook> ds2: IIRC there are VESA standards for display modes. Your best bet is probably to follow those.
  • [18:54:43] <kulve> ds2: git://source.mvista.com/git/linux-omap-2.6.git
  • [18:54:47] <ds2> pbrook: got a link handy?
  • [18:54:58] <doog> do we think this is a xorg.conf modeline issue?
  • [18:55:09] <ds2> kulve: that IS the linux-omap tree and is what OE builds on top of
  • [18:55:16] <kulve> yeah
  • [18:55:22] <kulve> but OE puts 10+ patches
  • [18:55:24] <koen> doog: no, xf86-video-fbdev shouldn't be needing modelines
  • [18:55:32] <ds2> there is a MVista kernel that has other things on top of it
  • [18:55:45] <ds2> and AFAIK, that works
  • [18:55:55] <pbrook> ds2: I know I've seen them online somewhere, but I'm afraid I don't remember where.
  • [18:56:09] <ds2> pbrook: okay, thanks. I will keep on looking
  • [18:56:25] <ds2> i hate having to drive displays w/o seeing it first :/
  • [18:56:32] <kulve> ds2: what about USB? That's the one I can't get working in OTG host mode (same cable setup works with some older prebuilt kernel image)
  • [18:57:15] <ds2> kulve: the real MVista kernel has USB working the last I looked
  • [18:57:29] <pbrook> ds2: http://linux.die.net/man/1/gtf
  • [18:57:32] <ds2> switching between host and gadget had some issues
  • [18:57:39] <doog> from /var/logs/Xorg.0.log = (II) FBDEV(0): Modeline "current"x0.0 48.00 1024 1104 1136 1184 768 783 787 790 -hsync -vsync -csync (40.5 kHz)
  • [18:57:54] <doog> I should have looked at what is normal for the demo image
  • [18:57:59] <kulve> ds2: well, not with the default config at least (and it seems to have the OTG selected in the config)
  • [18:58:26] <ds2> kulve: the one I am talking about is based on 2.6.24, IIRC
  • [18:58:56] * Olipro_ is now known as Olipro
  • [18:59:04] <kulve> oh, ok. I was talking about the linux-omap head
  • [18:59:33] <kulve> why there's kernel in source.mvista.com if it's the same as in kernel.org?
  • [18:59:42] <ds2> huh?
  • [19:00:03] <ds2> source.mvista.com is not the same. things from the mvista repo is getting merged into kernel.org though
  • [19:00:21] <mru> iirc kernel.org has a mirror of the mvista tree too
  • [19:00:26] <kulve> ok. Somebody said earlier that it's the same. Or maybe I misunderstood something back then too..
  • [19:00:43] <ds2> *shrug*
  • [19:00:49] <ds2> lunch
  • [19:01:02] <kulve> so, source.mvista.com is the one to be played with, if one wants the latest (broken) stuff..
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  • [19:03:24] <ds2> or if you need to go back and check something else
  • [19:03:34] <koen> ds2: diffing http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/tmlind/linux-omap-2.6.git;a=summary and the mvista one gives me an empty patch
  • [19:03:47] <ds2> the merge from the l-o to mainline is relatively recent
  • [19:03:55] <koen> ds2: si it *is* the same as the one on source.mvista.com
  • [19:04:33] <ds2> koen: I am talking about Linus's tree on kernel.org not the mirrors that reside there
  • [19:04:56] <koen> ds2: kulve was talking about the l-o tree on kernel.org
  • [19:05:36] <ds2> sorry, guess we were talking about 2 different things
  • [19:05:57] <ds2> that's the problem when one talks only about hostnames and not the actual repos ;)
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  • [19:15:33] <doog> does anyone have the x11-image working on the git .27-rc7 dev build or am I alone?
  • [19:18:14] <koen> I only use demo-image
  • [19:19:06] <doog> koen: how do I build demo-image since I tried bitbake on that and it's not there.
  • [19:19:46] <nathan> koen: Ajay's "urb unlink" patch fixes my UVC camera crash. UVC seems to work perfectly with latest linux-omap plus 4 MUSB patches.
  • [19:20:25] <Crofton|work> bitbake beagleboard-demo-image
  • [19:20:26] <koen> nathan: great!
  • [19:20:39] <koen> nathan: in that case http://ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl/~koen/uImage-2.6.26+2.6.27-rc7+r9+gite1c49d7d22af768188e2a54c167ed79919361e55-r9-beagleboard.bin will be of interest to webcam users :)
  • [19:20:50] <Crofton|work> I need to run the gnuradio code against that
  • [19:21:12] <doog> koen: never mind, it's beagleboard-demo-image. building now
  • [19:21:13] <Crofton|work> nathan, does sound work?
  • [19:21:41] <doog> crofton, thanks - found it googling
  • [19:22:03] <nathan> koen: Definitely. I already had two people e-mail me from the list. Lots of people are dying to see this in Angstrom. Thank you!
  • [19:22:39] <nathan> Crofton: I started building my kernel without sound because I was scared off by all the IRC chat.
  • [19:23:12] <Crofton|work> heh, sometimes we seem frightening on irc, but we are much better in person
  • [19:24:00] <nathan> I'm more frightened of sound eating my kernel heap. But I'll give it a try after switching to koen's uImage.
  • [19:26:45] * fer_luck (n=fer_luck@189-31-152-183.cbace701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br) has joined #beagle
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  • [19:27:00] <Crofton|work> A moose bit my heap
  • [19:27:09] * fer_luck (n=fer_luck@189-31-152-183.cbace701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br) has joined #beagle
  • [19:27:09] * assargadon (n=chatzill@77.66.212.209) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  • [19:27:35] <sakoman> koen: tried a clean build again after pulling. now I get a failure on gnome-games: | configure: error: *** Cannot find pthread.h header
  • [19:27:59] <koen> Crofton|work: can you see russia from your house?
  • [19:28:00] <doog> all: apologize for the bandwidth usage, I'm still getting up to speed on this. Zaurus dev was my last venture in ARM coding and it was easier to put together. Not as flexible though.
  • [19:28:06] <sakoman> hmm . . . looking in staging I can see pthread.h
  • [19:28:13] <Crofton|work> koen, Monty Python humour :)
  • [19:28:29] <koen> sakoman: check config.log
  • [19:28:42] <Crofton|work> doog, OE is like a swiss army knife with too many blades :)
  • [19:29:16] <koen> angstrom tries to provides locks for the blades so they don't snap shut at random:)
  • [19:29:26] <Crofton|work> heh
  • [19:29:50] * koen is never buying a knife without blade locks again
  • [19:29:55] <Crofton|work> do we have a smaller then demo image for people wanting to extend a basic gui based system
  • [19:30:04] <koen> Crofton|work: and indeed eth0 is flaky on .27
  • [19:30:30] * guest__ (n=Clark@cpe-066-057-089-102.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #beagle
  • [19:30:50] <koen> Crofton|work: demo image is large for 2 reasons: evil corporate firewalls and people not understanding package management
  • [19:31:05] <Crofton|work> right
  • [19:31:35] * guest__ (n=Clark@cpe-066-057-089-102.nc.res.rr.com) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  • [19:31:36] <Crofton|work> but, I need something I can add gnuradio to and try to make eye candy screen shot :)
  • [19:31:45] <sakoman> koen: config log has same error - Cannot find pthread.h header
  • [19:32:09] <koen> sakoman: it should also list the command that fails
  • [19:32:21] <koen> sakoman: which should have some clues about missing -I and stuff
  • [19:35:11] <sakoman> koen: http://pastebin.com/m3e5c8d10
  • [19:35:49] * cpope (n=Clark@cpe-066-057-089-102.nc.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  • [19:36:07] <sakoman> might this be the issue: --includedir=/usr/include
  • [19:36:23] <doog> crofton: I found the beagleboard-demo-image.bb file and once it is verified to work, I'll create my own trimmed down version and see where that takes me. I like starting with something known.
  • [19:36:52] <Crofton|work> great
  • [19:37:04] * banderson (n=irc@63.230.135.220) has joined #beagle
  • [19:37:08] <Crofton|work> I hate adding loads of images
  • [19:37:23] <sakoman> koen: don't understand all this autotools/libtool stuff
  • [19:37:27] <Crofton|work> maybe I'll look at x11 image
  • [19:37:35] <Crofton|work> sakoman, no one does :)
  • [19:37:55] <Crofton|work> I'm working on you libgweather issue first :)
  • [19:38:18] <sakoman> Crofton|work: but koen somehow has figured out how to use sed magic to fix things like this!
  • [19:38:20] <Crofton|work> by building libgweather from scratch to look for missing dependenxies
  • [19:38:38] <koen> sakoman: --includedir is where 'make isntall' will put the headers
  • [19:38:39] <sakoman> I bow to him and his magic!
  • [19:38:48] <Crofton|work> he has 733t sed skillz
  • [19:39:19] <koen> sakoman: broken packages (*cough* gimp *cough*) do -I${includedir} :(
  • [19:40:03] * thephilosopher (n=chatzill@modemcable108.47-58-74.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #beagle
  • [19:40:44] <thephilosopher> pandora is out
  • [19:41:17] <GeneralAntilles> By "out" you, of course, mean "available for preorder"
  • [19:41:23] * flo_lap (n=fuchs@f049168150.adsl.alicedsl.de) has joined #beagle
  • [19:41:56] <thephilosopher> GeneralAntilles: of course
  • [19:42:07] <koen> hmmm
  • [19:42:20] <thephilosopher> i so want to order one ... but i really dont have time to play with it
  • [19:42:21] <GeneralAntilles> I wonder how they're getting away with charging people's credit cards now and shipping in November.
  • [19:42:22] <koen> my girlfriend will kill me if I preorder that
  • [19:42:36] <thephilosopher> koen: why ?
  • [19:42:41] <GeneralAntilles> thephilosopher, I think the 3000 are gone anyway.
  • [19:42:56] <koen> thephilosopher: 'cause I have too much arm junk already :)
  • [19:43:16] <thephilosopher> koen: like all of us lol
  • [19:43:21] <thephilosopher> GeneralAntilles: yea
  • [19:43:33] <flo_lap> hi all
  • [19:44:02] <thephilosopher> flo_lap: hi there
  • [19:44:04] <nathan> I would preorder Pandora, but it's so incredibly ambitious it's hard for me to believe it will all be out and solid by November.
  • [19:44:21] <thephilosopher> nathan: why are you saying that ?
  • [19:44:45] <thephilosopher> it is not that hard to beleive develloper all ready have some
  • [19:45:30] <koen> well
  • [19:45:52] <koen> the pandora devs don't want people to see their current kernel sources
  • [19:46:08] <koen> or their OE patches
  • [19:46:12] <koen> or their testing rigs
  • [19:46:19] <koen> or the patches to games they use
  • [19:46:35] <koen> all-in-all it seems like a standard gaming project
  • [19:46:36] <flo_lap> that's why we do not pre-order pandoras? ;)
  • [19:46:41] <koen> full of secrecy and NIH
  • [19:47:04] <thephilosopher> koen lol
  • [19:47:06] <BThompson> i look forward to owning one someday, but im waiting until a later batch myself until it is more proven
  • [19:47:07] <thephilosopher> just give them time
  • [19:47:11] <thephilosopher> they have nothing to hide
  • [19:47:20] <thephilosopher> they code is just not yet ready
  • [19:47:22] * rsalveti (n=salveti@200.184.118.132) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  • [19:47:54] <koen> thephilosopher: that's no excuse for hiding everything
  • [19:47:55] <thephilosopher> i think i am more interrested in the beagleboard
  • [19:48:01] * rsalveti (n=salveti@200.184.118.136) has joined #beagle
  • [19:48:07] <koen> it doesn't bode well for an 'open' community
  • [19:48:12] <thephilosopher> koen: are you a kernel hacker ?
  • [19:48:28] <BThompson> the videos all look like there is no direct control through the LCD, everything being done through a uart console, which is not ready enough :-/
  • [19:48:29] <nathan> I agree. I want to see some real hardware in customer hands. Portable consumer electronics is really hard, and 6 weeks before ship date I'm sort of amazed they aren't showing off final hardware, final kernels, etc.
  • [19:48:47] <koen> thephilosopher: that's a straw-man
  • [19:49:12] <pbrook> IMHO "not ready yet" is a realy poor excuse for not releasing stuff in the open source world.
  • [19:49:17] <BThompson> if it all works they should do well, it does pretty much everything the Mistral EVM does at way cheaper
  • [19:49:43] <nathan> The moment I see someone unboxing theirs on Youtube I will be kicking myself for not pre-ordering. :D
  • [19:49:51] <koen> pbrook: most opensource software isn't "ready yet" since people don't write perfect code :)
  • [19:50:06] <pbrook> koen: That's my point.
  • [19:51:50] <thephilosopher> i dont have the strenth to argue
  • [19:52:21] <thephilosopher> but how many of you guys contrubute to the proje... instead you are wainting and complainning
  • [19:52:23] <Crofton|work> I prefer to work with projects with good communities
  • [19:52:38] <Crofton|work> TI is a bit of a nuisance with the various not so open bits
  • [19:52:46] <thephilosopher> pandora guys arent a big company so dont expect them to act like it
  • [19:52:47] <Crofton|work> but I think they are listening to us bitch
  • [19:53:05] <pbrook> thephilosopher: They are acting like a big company though.
  • [19:53:08] <mru> TI are being quite good
  • [19:53:22] <thephilosopher> pbrook: ? how are they ?
  • [19:53:25] <mru> they are trying hard to accomodate our needs
  • [19:53:43] <thephilosopher> ok back to the beagle
  • [19:53:49] <thephilosopher> about the powerVR
  • [19:53:50] <mru> but being a big company, they have to go through many managers and lawyers to get things approved
  • [19:53:57] <koen> thephilosopher: yes, I only complain and have never contributed to any project
  • [19:53:58] <thephilosopher> so are no noud driver for that ?
  • [19:54:00] <Crofton|work> poor bastards
  • [19:54:08] <pbrook> thephilosopher: What was said above. By being secretive about what's actually going on, and not releasing source until they absolutely have to.
  • [19:54:11] <thephilosopher> knowed
  • [19:54:26] <Crofton|work> we should check the share price and see if we can all chip in and buy TXN
  • [19:54:29] <thephilosopher> pbrook: i see
  • [19:54:33] <Crofton|work> :)
  • [19:54:55] <koen> thephilosopher: I really think you should google up the people participating in this discussion
  • [19:55:12] <thephilosopher> koen: why would i ?
  • [19:55:26] <koen> thephilosopher: so you would stop insulting us by spouting nonsense
  • [19:55:41] <thephilosopher> koen i ask a retoric question
  • [19:55:42] <koen> "21:52 < thephilosopher> but how many of you guys contrubute to the proje... instead you are wainting and complainning
  • [19:55:46] <koen> "
  • [19:55:46] <thephilosopher> answer to defend yourself
  • [19:56:13] <koen> actually, the burden of proof is on you
  • [19:56:21] <Crofton|work> thephilosopher, err, I have zero problem with him not arguing with you
  • [19:56:34] <thephilosopher> ok
  • [19:56:36] <Crofton|work> it clogs the channel and annoys people
  • [19:56:54] <thephilosopher> so as i said back to the beagle
  • [19:56:59] <thephilosopher> driver of the powerVR ?
  • [19:57:24] <nathan> http://www.google.com/search?q=beagleboard+powervr+driver
  • [19:57:54] <mru> why are people so hung up on the powervr driver?
  • [19:57:59] <pbrook> thephilosopher: See wiki. Currently only available if you sell your soul to Imgtek and don't mind violating the GPL.
  • [19:58:18] <thephilosopher> pbrook: yea
  • [19:58:24] <mru> there are 3500 pages of TRM for the rest of the chip available right now
  • [19:58:24] <BThompson> as i understand it is currently a licensing issue
  • [19:58:28] <thephilosopher> i did google a bit and i did find anything
  • [19:58:40] <thephilosopher> strange for such a popular GPU....
  • [19:58:43] <thephilosopher> didnt
  • [19:58:45] <BThompson> the OpenGLES drivers are not widely available/released yet
  • [19:59:06] <BThompson> imagination technology does not provide them freely or in open source, TI is working to make some version of them available
  • [19:59:08] * koen still has the beagleboard powervr drivers from the lugradiolive demo
  • [19:59:30] <pbrook> mru: The 3530 TRM isn't anything special. And it has huge holes where all the powervr bits should be.
  • [19:59:41] <mru> yes, the powervr bits are missing
  • [19:59:43] * rsalveti (n=salveti@200.184.118.136) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  • [19:59:46] <BThompson> TI does not own the documentation to the powervr :(
  • [19:59:46] <mru> *everything* else is there
  • [20:00:02] <BThompson> much like you dont find much in the way of an arm instruction set in the TRM
  • [20:00:06] <nathan> The 3530 TRM was the first good MUSB overview I found anywhere.
  • [20:00:10] <mru> I challenge you to find another SoC with that much documentation freely available
  • [20:00:17] <pbrook> mru: If you don't mind ignoring a large chink of the functionality that the hardware provides, then sure, what we have is fine.
  • [20:00:39] <mru> focus on what you have, not on what you would like
  • [20:00:43] <mru> it makes you happier
  • [20:01:08] <Crofton|work> basically, we need to demonstrate we can use the bits we have
  • [20:01:10] <thephilosopher> so sad
  • [20:01:13] * TAKI (n=Administ@dslb-088-072-208-241.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #beagle
  • [20:01:22] <suihkulokki> you can allways buy a omap 3505, that one doesn't have any undocumented bits iirc
  • [20:01:27] <thephilosopher> such graphic power unreachable...
  • [20:01:37] <Crofton|work> and use this to leverage our way in to the bits we do not have :)
  • [20:01:38] <mru> thephilosopher: shut up
  • [20:01:47] <BThompson> just realize it is not TI that is hiding the documentation and drivers it is imagination technologies
  • [20:01:49] <pbrook> mru: By that argument we should all by using a 3505. I'm sure they're significantly cheaper.
  • [20:01:49] <thephilosopher> mru: i cant
  • [20:02:11] <Crofton|work> BThompson, most of us have a good understanding of the situation
  • [20:02:19] <mru> I agree it would be nice to have powervr specs
  • [20:02:25] * Crofton|work noticed
  • [20:02:26] <doog> while bb-demo-image is building I'm messing with the x11-image to see if I can't get it working. is there a way to set the omapfb display freq from the kernel parms?
  • [20:02:31] <mru> but we all know we won't be getting that any time soon
  • [20:02:49] <mru> what we *can* get, is binary drivers that allow us to use the damn thing
  • [20:02:50] <Crofton|work> doog, I'm no help there
  • [20:02:55] <Crofton|work> but I want it to work
  • [20:03:08] <doog> crofton: oh yea, mr console. ;-)
  • [20:03:12] <Crofton|work> right
  • [20:03:13] <koen> doog: the .27 kernel should have the cmdline magic from mru
  • [20:03:22] <pbrook> mru: Well, that still remains to be proven.
  • [20:04:02] <mru> I have them...
  • [20:04:05] <doog> koen, ok, I'll google for what that means though I recall the irc archive mentioning this.
  • [20:04:11] <mru> but I can't distribute them
  • [20:04:20] * RogerMonk (n=a0740758@nat/ti/x-a9f00b2752d72670) has joined #beagle
  • [20:04:25] <mru> and they're tied to some ungodly kernel version that I'm not likely to ever run
  • [20:04:46] <mru> now they've said they'll provide source for the kernel bits
  • [20:04:48] <pbrook> mru: That fails my test of "allow us to use the damn thing".
  • [20:04:57] <mru> probably it's just a shim for the userspace lib to talk to the chip
  • [20:05:22] <mru> pbrook: my point is that they have already provided something
  • [20:05:40] <mru> good luck trying to get beta drivers off the likes of nvidia
  • [20:05:42] <koen> mru: ungodly kernel compiled with 2007q1
  • [20:05:56] <mru> hell, try to find out *anything* about the tegra chip
  • [20:06:09] <pbrook> mru: Sure. I've also seen Linux MBX drivers for the omap2. Doesn't mean thay're actualy usable in practice though.
  • [20:06:38] <mru> binaries can be reverse engineered
  • [20:06:38] <pbrook> ... usable for anything other than a ship it and forget it platform.
  • [20:06:42] <mru> it's not that hard
  • [20:07:13] <pbrook> That's what I'm hoping, though I'm a bit sceptical about "not that hard".
  • [20:07:37] <mru> it's just an interface to a chip
  • [20:07:39] <suihkulokki> according to rumours tungsten graphics is working on "proper" SGX driver
  • [20:08:29] <koen> suihkulokki: for 530, not 535, right?
  • [20:08:53] <koen> (or the other way around, but for the intel GMA, not the one omap3 uses)
  • [20:09:16] <suihkulokki> specifically for omap3
  • [20:09:39] * rsalveti (n=salveti@200.184.118.132) has joined #beagle
  • [20:09:54] <pbrook> suihkulokki: Huh, I thought the tungsten driver was for x86.
  • [20:10:21] <mru> speaking of closed hardware, did you guys read that atheros finally released full source?
  • [20:10:38] <mru> bitching won't get you anywhere
  • [20:11:03] <mru> but work with the companies, taking whatever they're willing to give you, and you can actually get somewhere
  • [20:11:18] <mru> it's much easier to ask for a piece at a time
  • [20:11:29] <koen> bitching does work better with FLOSS than companies :)
  • [20:12:05] <mru> so take the specs we have now, and put them to good use
  • [20:12:14] * felipec (n=felipec@a88-113-6-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi) has joined #beagle
  • [20:12:22] <mru> show the companies that if the they give us specs, we'll do cool stuff
  • [20:14:02] * RogerMon1 (n=a0740758@nat/ti/x-ab1c3d2721b970ba) has joined #beagle
  • [20:14:03] <Crofton|work> that makes them money
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  • [20:18:14] * RogerMonk (n=a0740758@nat/ti/x-a9f00b2752d72670) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  • [20:23:57] <doog> x11-image FYI - tried passing video=omapfb:vram:2M,vram:4M:mode:1024x768@60 and got 1024x768 but still using 48MHz clock
  • [20:24:14] <mru> missing some clock patches?
  • [20:24:36] <mru> it should do better than that
  • [20:25:37] <mru> for the record, I won't be spending any more time on the display driver until it becomes clear which direction we are heading
  • [20:26:24] <mru> of the options presented so far, I prefer the nokia driver
  • [20:26:36] * mru wonders where that guy went
  • [20:26:53] <doog> mru: sorry, build newbie - where do I look to find the patch listings to see if I have the right patches( using git dev )
  • [20:27:31] <mru> doog: are you building with OE?
  • [20:27:44] <doog> mru: yes, OE
  • [20:27:52] <mru> better ask koen
  • [20:28:30] <doog> I'll start digging
  • [20:29:13] <Crofton|work> doog hang on
  • [20:29:27] <Crofton|work> mru, I'm pretty sure we have loads of your patches
  • [20:29:41] <Crofton|work> doog linux-omap or liux-omap2 kernel?
  • [20:30:08] <koen> iirc linux-omap has all patches from mrus 'patches' branch
  • [20:30:21] <koen> if not, it's by accident
  • [20:31:50] * thephilosopher (n=chatzill@modemcable108.47-58-74.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  • [20:33:54] <doog> crofton: linux-omap
  • [20:34:02] * RogerMonk (n=a0740758@nat/ti/x-b2522422bba2edec) has joined #beagle
  • [20:34:20] <koen> (that means: stuff is getting blown up on discovery channel, AFK)
  • [20:35:53] <doog> crofton-koen: let me look in the irc archive to make sure what I changed yesterday is still set to linux-omap
  • [20:36:39] <Crofton|work> http://gitweb.openembedded.net/?p=org.openembedded.dev.git;a=tree;f=packages/linux;h=90020921535c30a4d758a4cd4a95fb3928dc54f5;hb=refs/heads/org.openembedded.dev
  • [20:36:52] <Crofton|work> the linux-omap and linxu-omap2 bb files are here
  • [20:37:06] <Crofton|work> the patches are in directories with the name of the bb file
  • [20:37:24] * N208L1 (n=danson@adsl-209-184-7-130.dsl.austtx.swbell.net) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  • [20:38:05] <mru> "Unavailable modules and feature pins are not functional and should not be used."
  • [20:38:09] * guillaum1 (n=gl@AMontsouris-153-1-40-176.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit ("Leaving.")
  • [20:38:10] <mru> I could never have guessed ;-)
  • [20:38:33] * guillaum1 (n=Guillaum@AMontsouris-153-1-40-176.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #beagle
  • [20:39:24] <Crofton|work> facebook is weird
  • [20:40:19] * RogerMon1 (n=a0740758@nat/ti/x-ab1c3d2721b970ba) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  • [20:40:45] <doog> yup, still linux-omap
  • [20:46:20] * feig (n=ejf3@9.sub-75-194-125.myvzw.com) Quit ("Konversation terminated!")
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  • [21:12:51] * RogerMonk (n=a0740758@nat/ti/x-b2522422bba2edec) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  • [21:16:34] <mru> testing latest git kernel
  • [21:17:34] <mru> mmc is happy
  • [21:18:02] <mru> usb gadget is happy
  • [21:18:07] * mru is happy
  • [21:18:51] <doog> building bb-demo-image and oh look, libgweather failed. Now what was everyone saying about that.
  • [21:22:03] * valhalla (n=valhalla@81-174-37-208.dynamic.ngi.it) Quit ("Leaving")
  • [21:23:23] <Crofton|work> restart the build
  • [21:24:20] <N208LG> what git branch is the angstrom kernel built from? d6daf8d8cc5ccf90247def5551ee9c3e8555e848 from source.mvista.com?
  • [21:25:01] <Crofton|work> http://source.mvista.com/git/?p=linux-omap-2.6.git;a=summary
  • [21:25:34] <N208LG> yup - so d6daf8d8cc5ccf90247def5551ee9c3e8555e848 = v2.6.26-omap1 - is that what angstrom is built from?
  • [21:25:49] <N208LG> or is a newer one?
  • [21:26:32] <doog> crofton: just restart it?
  • [21:26:36] <Crofton|work> right
  • [21:26:40] <doog> ok
  • [21:28:21] <doog> is git-pull what you guys use to keep stuff sync'ed?
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  • [21:29:03] <doog> crofton: it still failed at libgweather
  • [21:29:12] <Crofton|work> hmmm
  • [21:29:20] <Crofton|work> sakoman, said testarting helped
  • [21:29:55] <Crofton|work> does configure fail complaining about gtk+-2.0?
  • [21:30:03] <N208LG> so, FYI, if I do a fresh download of d6daf8d8cc5ccf90247def5551ee9c3e8555e848 = v2.6.26-omap1 from mvista.com, use the omap3_beagle_defconfig, I end up with a kernel that boots but whose omapfb does not work...
  • [21:30:24] <Crofton|work> bother, work day over
  • [21:30:39] <Crofton|work> doog, it will be a bit b4 I can fix it
  • [21:31:56] <N208LG> The omap3_beagle_defconfig options for FB_OMAP_CONSISTENT_DMA_SIZE are 4 but that does not work. If I use 8 instead, I dont get a failure from the FB DMA alloc_fbmem() code but I still dont get a working framebuffer driver.
  • [21:32:45] <doog> crofton: I'll see if I can't remove what needs it from the image configuration til then
  • [21:32:49] <N208LG> angstrom must be using a different git tree than d6daf8d8cc5ccf90247def5551ee9c3e8555e848 - I'm not connecting the dots on how angstrom is successfully building a kernel with a working fb driver.
  • [21:32:55] <felipec> N208LG: it depends the the resolution you are using
  • [21:33:04] <felipec> N208LG: I use 14
  • [21:33:37] <N208LG> felipec, ok - do you happen to know what value is used in the angstrom build? that one works for me... but 4 and 8 do not.
  • [21:33:52] * koen hints at IKCONFIG
  • [21:33:59] <koen> it rocks, make use of it
  • [21:34:08] <koen> IKCONFIG is the RTFM for defconfigs
  • [21:34:17] <N208LG> felipec, I'll give 14 a try and see.
  • [21:34:21] <felipec> N208LG: it's probably 6
  • [21:34:40] <N208LG> excellent - thanks felipec! I'll give that a whirl .
  • [21:34:45] * koen hints at IKCONFIG again hoping people will pick up on the hint
  • [21:34:51] <felipec> N208LG: are you setting the video param correctly?
  • [21:35:07] <N208LG> video=omapfb:vram:2M, vram:4M
  • [21:35:54] <felipec> N208LG: then I think 6 is ok
  • [21:36:17] <N208LG> I'll give it a try felipec, thanks again for the help!!
  • [21:37:54] <doog> atleast one starting to see what IKCONFIG is
  • [21:40:47] <doog> IKCONFIG - seems to be about building kernel config data into the kernel
  • [21:41:36] <N208LG> how does one extract said kernel config data koen?
  • [21:42:32] <stillson> how long does it usually take digikey to process an order?
  • [21:42:52] <Crofton|work> if they have stock they are really fast
  • [21:43:04] <Crofton|work> koen is likely watching TV
  • [21:43:04] <doog> yes, really fast
  • [21:43:06] <stillson> odd
  • [21:43:24] <stillson> i placed last night and it still hasn't shipped
  • [21:43:41] <ds2> the beagle board might not be instock but if it is anything like what has been said before, it might be a week before they get another batch
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  • [21:44:08] <doog> maybe their shipping clerk is too busy watching the stock market? ;-)
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  • [21:44:13] <stillson> :)
  • [21:48:48] <koen> N208LG: zcat /proc/config.gz
  • [21:50:02] <doog> libgweather is called for in gnome-panel 2.22 and 2.24, commented out and will try building again
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  • [21:55:31] <N208LG> thanks koen - tried that - took fresh copy of d6daf8d8cc5ccf90247def5551ee9c3e8555e848 = v2.6.26-omap1 from mvista, zcat config.gz -> .config for my build... build it... copy uImage over and... no bueno. the framebuffer fails to work (does not report a problem just no video).
  • [21:56:19] <N208LG> if I copy over the pre-build angstrom kernel (from which I pulled the config.gz info from...) it works fine...
  • [21:56:47] <N208LG> just wondering if their must have been a different git tree used to build that angstrom kernel... that is about the only difference I can think of at this point.
  • [21:57:26] <ds2> N208LG: check the stuff in drivers/video/omap...there might have been some addition patches
  • [21:57:58] <ds2> or do 'fbset' on both kernels and see if they report the same info
  • [21:58:08] <N208LG> FYI, when I do my build for the first time, I get complaints about numerous non-existent values being set in .config - to me, that's an indicator that I have the wrong source... while the kernel version reports as 2.6.26-omap1 - that does not seem to reflect where the source came from (i.e. its not d6daf8d8cc5ccf90247def5551ee9c3e8555e848 in the git tree).
  • [22:00:13] <Crofton|work> make ARCH=arm xconfig ...
  • [22:00:25] <ds2> if I had to guess, you could be missing the video mode selection patches?
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  • [22:00:51] <N208LG> ds2, where can I find those patches?
  • [22:01:23] <doog> doog is watching this - fbset shows 51Hz and I see no video
  • [22:01:41] <Crofton|work> doog, I am building libgweather from a clean machine and it bitched about gtk+-2.0, I added it to depends and am rebuilding
  • [22:01:55] <ds2> N208LG: donno...
  • [22:02:14] <ds2> I don't use angstrom so I just modify the code by hand :D
  • [22:02:29] <doog> crofton: ok, I'm still building after removing it from gnome-panel depends
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  • [22:07:31] <doog> FYI, from irc archive dated 2008-08-12, it mentioned 51Hz video and mru patches but no reference to where or what they are
  • [22:08:05] <N208LG> thanks doog, I'll run down that path see what I find...
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  • [22:18:09] <doog> running "find $OE_HOME/org.openembedded.dev -name "*.diff" shows mru-clock{1,2,3}.diff files so maybe something else is causing video clock problem?
  • [22:18:53] <mru> doog: try mode:480p60
  • [22:19:12] <mru> if my patches are applied correctly, that mode works with correct timings
  • [22:19:35] <mru> what display are you using?
  • [22:19:40] <mru> TV or PC monitor?
  • [22:21:14] <doog> mru: dvi as default, I didn't do anything to specify
  • [22:21:30] <mru> I'm talking about the lcd panel
  • [22:21:32] <mru> what is it?
  • [22:21:53] <doog> yes, it's an 20" lcd
  • [22:22:06] <mru> yes... now is that a TV or a PC monitor?
  • [22:22:22] <doog> pc style display
  • [22:26:15] <doog> fyi, a webpage stated setting some sys/.../display_control for directing output but there is no display_control structure with this build
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  • [22:32:40] <doog> crofton: the build failed at gnome-panel 2.24 so it must really require libgweather. : (
  • [22:36:04] <doog> mru: sorry I didn't see your "try 480p60" comment. I'll do that now.
  • [22:42:46] <doog> mru: used mode:480p60 and still got 1024x768-51Hz listed by fbset
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  • [22:43:56] <doog> if it matters, here's the cmdline parms-console=ttyS2,115200n8 video=omapfb:vram:2M,vram:4M:mode:480p60 console=tty0 root=/dev/mmcblk0p2 rootdelay=2 rootfstype=ext3
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  • [23:02:04] <doog> crofton: libgweather-2.24 builds by adding libsoup-2.4 to its depends. I still have libgweather removed from gnome-panel 2.22 so that many not need it need it.
  • [23:02:43] <doog> And who built/designed this build system? I'd like to slap them and also give them a beer. ;-)
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