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  • [04:39:07] <nathan__> Is there anywhere to get the zd1211rw wireless kernel module? It's not included in the current Angstrom feed.
  • [04:41:02] <gregoiregentil> It's buggy in 2.6.22. You need to get latest of git (2.6.27) and it
  • [04:41:06] <gregoiregentil> 's working fine
  • [04:41:12] <gregoiregentil> 2.6.27
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  • [04:42:57] <nathan__> So just compile 2.6.27 from source and my zd1211rw will work?
  • [04:43:02] <gregoiregentil> yup
  • [04:43:47] <nathan__> Thanks!
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  • [08:31:15] <koen> good morning all
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  • [08:53:06] <Beagle1> morning
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  • [10:01:45] <Xenion> Guten Moin Moin :-) / Hello anyone
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  • [10:36:14] <koen> vlad_: I just found that firefox 3.1a2 doesn't compile without --with-arm-kuser (cross or native compile)
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  • [10:50:24] <sweetlilm> Crofton: If you are there, a complete redo (git clone and rm -rf of the 'system' dir) resulted in successful 'bitbake console-image' testing the demo image now
  • [10:50:32] <sweetlilm> took all night :(
  • [11:03:06] <koen> it only has to do all that once
  • [11:03:21] <koen> if you do 'bitbake console-image' now it should complete within minutes
  • [11:03:42] <sweetlilm> ja, but I had an issue where gcc-cross-initial would not build at all, neither would console
  • [11:04:04] <sweetlilm> I had to start from scratch to get console building, now am building demo-image
  • [11:05:00] <sweetlilm> hopefully this time it will build
  • [11:05:25] <sweetlilm> I am very nervous to do another git pull ... :)
  • [11:06:58] <sweetlilm> somewhere between my initial git clone and successfull build of console-image, a further git pull completely broke the build process
  • [11:08:28] <sweetlilm> Running task 879 of 5735 ... I will be a while
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  • [12:17:52] <likewise> hey all
  • [12:17:54] <likewise> hey all
  • [12:19:45] <koen> hey likewise
  • [12:23:32] <Crofton|work> schroedinger is failing
  • [12:23:44] <likewise> Crofton|work: compiling?
  • [12:23:51] <Crofton|work> configure
  • [12:24:01] <Crofton|work> it needs liboil and does not find it
  • [12:24:07] <jkridner|work> >3X the power of a BeagleBoard: http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/17/fit-pc-slim-the-worlds-smallest-pc-just-dont-lose-it-on :)
  • [12:25:27] <koen> Crofton|work: I think I have an ucommitted fix for that
  • [12:25:46] <Crofton|work> :)
  • [12:26:10] <pbrook> jkridner|beagle: You mean power consumption, not computing power, right?
  • [12:26:24] <jkridner> right. didn't compare the computing power.
  • [12:26:45] <pbrook> I bet wifi and harddisk add quite a bit.
  • [12:26:52] <jkridner> I guess Beagle would have a lot more computing power too!
  • [12:27:29] <jkridner> 500MHz Geode wouldn't be nearly as fast as a 600MHz Cortex-A8.
  • [12:27:44] <jkridner> even ignoring the 3D acceleration and DSP.
  • [12:28:07] <pbrook> Right. Geode CPUs are pretty slow.
  • [12:28:37] <koen> isn't olpc using geode?
  • [12:28:42] <pbrook> Or at least they were. At some point thery're switching to K7 cores, which should be less sucky.
  • [12:28:49] <pbrook> koen: Yes, and it's slow ;-)
  • [12:28:54] <jkridner> yes. OLPC... exactly.
  • [12:29:09] <koen> sugar feels pretty sluggish on the beagle
  • [12:29:18] <koen> might be that python has some x86 asm magic
  • [12:29:40] <pbrook> sugar is also pretty sluggish on the OLPC.
  • [12:29:41] <jkridner> hopefully _bernie will be able to make some contributions to that.
  • [12:30:03] <jkridner> that's one of the reasons I wanted to see it on the Beagle, because it is so slow on the OLPC.
  • [12:30:16] <jkridner> I'm expecting Beagle to make it a bit more usable.
  • [12:30:17] <koen> ah, its also slow on the olpc :)
  • [12:31:52] <koen> not using python would also make it faster I guess
  • [12:32:07] <koen> but then you wouldn't be able to show the source code and stuff on the fly
  • [12:34:43] * koen opkg install http://ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl/~koen/firefox_3.0.1+3.1a2-r0_armv7a.ipk http://ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl/~koen/firefox-sdk_3.0.1+3.1a2-r0_armv7a.ipk
  • [12:36:55] <jkridner> what is new with that build? performance?
  • [12:37:16] <koen> dunno ;)
  • [12:37:21] <koen> I'm going to try it now
  • [12:37:36] <jkridner|beagle> ah. ditto.
  • [12:37:47] <koen> it might eat your dog
  • [12:37:50] * jkridner|beagle worries just a bit about breaking his demo setup that he still hasn't cloned.
  • [12:38:13] <koen> I got this with 3.0.1 today: http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/aaf7b284c2451d00e0962254c9ea503d.png
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  • [12:38:24] * jkridner|beagle stops and considers doing 'dd'.
  • [12:38:50] <koen> heh
  • [12:38:59] <koen> "eat your dog" is pretty appropriate for the beagle :)
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  • [12:39:40] <jkridner|beagle> yeah, I caught that one.
  • [12:39:50] * jkridner|beagle shuts down to run dd.
  • [12:39:59] * jkridner|beagle (n=angstrom@c-76-31-18-64.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) Quit ("Powered by OE: www.openembedded.org")
  • [12:41:02] * koen hugs his pidgin patch: jkridner|beagle [n=angstrom@c-76-31-18-64.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit ["Powered by OE: www.openembedded.org"]
  • [12:41:18] <jkridner> :)
  • [12:44:47] <jkridner> anyone know the dd | gzip arguments to avoid writing the file before gzipping it?
  • [12:44:54] <jkridner> can't I just stream it to gzip?
  • [12:46:07] <pbrook> jkridner: If you omit the of=foo argument to dd it'll write to stdout.
  • [12:46:08] <likewise> jkridner: dd if=bla | gzip -c >out.gz ?
  • [12:46:23] * jkridner dd if=/dev/disk2 of=angstrom-backup-20080920.img
  • [12:46:31] <jkridner> using my mac, because I couldn't get the PC to dd the second partition.
  • [12:46:38] <jkridner> ah... -c
  • [12:46:48] <pbrook> Beware crufty dd/gzip that don't correctly handle files >4G.
  • [12:46:52] <likewise> -c writes to stdout, didn't test
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  • [12:46:59] <jkridner> I didn't think it was -c, because that only says stdout.
  • [12:47:16] <jkridner> "keep original file unchanged"
  • [12:47:24] <jkridner> makes it sound like it is still reading from a file.
  • [12:47:26] <likewise> jkridner: yes, tested, works
  • [12:47:40] <pbrook> The -c should only be necessary if you specify an input filename.
  • [12:47:50] <likewise> jkridner: dd if=bla | gzip -c >out.gz does not specify a file name to gzip, so it takes stdin
  • [12:47:59] <likewise> jkridner: it works as you want
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  • [12:48:36] <jkridner> thanks. just didn't read the man right. (or the man is poorly worded)
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  • [12:55:27] <jkridner> this backup process is slow. just 4GB, how long should it take. :)
  • [12:55:46] <koen> 4gb, 20MB/s -> 200 seconds :)
  • [12:56:44] <NishanthM> i wonder if anyone had played around with http://perlbox.org/
  • [12:57:30] <koen> jkridner: there now is a pm-0 branch on l-o git for powermanagement work
  • [12:57:44] <koen> jkridner: sadly no SRF and cpufreq, but that's planned for later on
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  • [12:59:32] <jkridner> Why on Earth would they call it Perlbox?
  • [12:59:41] <jkridner> (and then use Python)
  • [12:59:52] <jkridner> They couldn't even spell Pearl properly?
  • [13:00:21] <jkridner> wait, maybe I got my stories mixed up.
  • [13:00:29] <NishanthM> :)
  • [13:00:45] <jkridner> why does perlbox.org have a big story on Freevo?
  • [13:01:28] <NishanthM> some sort of environment setup?
  • [13:01:59] <jkridner> oh good, it is based on perl. at least they weren't that stupid.
  • [13:02:10] <NishanthM> it seems to a bunch of frontend stuff for sphinx-2 and festival.. just allowing comp to "voice interact" ;)
  • [13:02:24] <jkridner> at least the install is "perl install.pl"
  • [13:03:46] <jkridner> yikes, my backup is over 1GB.
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  • [13:04:17] * jkridner continues with koen's dog-eating experiment.
  • [13:09:19] <koen> firefox 3.1a2 seems to run quite well
  • [13:09:54] <koen> I mean beagleweasel
  • [13:10:03] <koen> since we can't call it firefox
  • [13:10:53] <jkridner> 3.1?
  • [13:11:02] <jkridner> the ipk file still says 3.0.1
  • [13:11:10] <jkridner> just reuse of the recipe?
  • [13:11:15] <kulve> koen: isn't it "minefield"?
  • [13:11:58] <jkridner> ah... I see the
  • [13:12:08] <jkridner> ah... I see the +3.1
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  • [13:14:04] <koen> kulve: it is
  • [13:18:31] * nooomem (n=chatzill@ip68-100-201-32.dc.dc.cox.net) Quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.1/2008070208]")
  • [13:18:44] <koen> kulve: although 3.1 would be 'shiretoko' iirc
  • [13:21:38] <kulve> oh
  • [13:28:02] <koen> I haven't looked at firefox for a looooooong time
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  • [13:28:14] <koen> since ff2 doesn't work on arm eabi and webkit is still faster on arm
  • [13:28:45] <jkridner|beagle> what flash plugins do you have working?
  • [13:28:57] <jkridner|beagle> any chance of youtube?
  • [13:30:35] <sakoman> good morning
  • [13:31:00] <jkridner> good morning sakoman
  • [13:31:20] <sakoman> koen: have you seen pidgin fail on a clean build?
  • [13:31:23] <sakoman> http://www.sakoman.net:8000/public/logs/342154.txt
  • [13:31:48] <Crofton|work> hmm, koen mentioned a pidgin patch
  • [13:32:12] * rsalveti (n=salveti@189.70.107.208) has joined #beagle
  • [13:32:14] <jkridner> yeah, I'm looking for libs that will install.
  • [13:32:20] <jkridner> I get no plugins by default.
  • [13:32:24] <sakoman> Crofton|work: I think that was the "powered by oe" patch
  • [13:33:07] <jkridner> trying swfdec-mozilla
  • [13:33:27] <jkridner> he showed a screenshot with plugins.
  • [13:35:17] <koen> jkridner: you need to manually symlink the plugin .so
  • [13:36:16] <koen> jkridner: cd /usr/lib/firefox-3.1a2/plugins/ ; ln /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins/libswfdecmozilla.so . -sf
  • [13:36:30] <koen> (repeat for fennec and ff3.0.1)
  • [13:38:18] * GeneralAntilles (n=GeneralA@c-69-244-211-19.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) has joined #beagle
  • [13:41:47] <jkridner> seems the memory thrashing is too much.
  • [13:43:41] * NishanthM (n=Nishanth@cpe-24-27-74-89.tx.res.rr.com) Quit ("That's easy to fix, but I can't be bothered.")
  • [13:51:58] * NishanthM (n=Nishanth@cpe-24-27-74-89.tx.res.rr.com) has joined #beagle
  • [13:55:56] <sakoman> koen: pidgin build succeeds after a 'bitbake python', so I guess there is a missing DEPENDS in the pidgin recipe
  • [13:57:02] <koen> hrm
  • [14:01:49] <koen> sakoman: do you happen to have an evm kernel binary where the display works?
  • [14:14:05] <sakoman> koen: you could try what is in http://www.sakoman.net/feeds/omap3/glibc/images
  • [14:15:36] * Openfree (n=df@218.82.113.216) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  • [14:16:10] * Openfree (n=df@58.33.108.18) has joined #beagle
  • [14:20:03] <koen> sakoman: no network and nothing on the screen
  • [14:33:55] * DJWillis (i=djwillis@82-46-19-72.cable.ubr02.bath.blueyonder.co.uk) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  • [14:55:25] <jkridner|beagle> forgot to time my kernel build on Beagle.
  • [14:55:40] <jkridner|beagle> kicked it off a few minutes ago.
  • [14:55:55] <jkridner|beagle> seems to be chugging along nicely.
  • [14:56:33] <jkridner|beagle> oh wait, I have a timestamp issue.
  • [14:59:44] <jkridner> whoa! 31 new mailing list subscriber requests since yesterday?
  • [15:02:09] <jkridner> 23 e-mails to moderate. people, please subscribe before posting!
  • [15:02:40] * NishanthM wonders as to how many beagleboards are in the wild..5k 10k?
  • [15:03:13] <kulve> jkridner: would it be too much to require the subscribing? And just delete the mails from unsubscribed people?
  • [15:03:29] * TAK2004 (n=Administ@dslb-088-072-211-223.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  • [15:03:58] <jkridner> I'd rather moderate until it really gets out of hand. there's no moderation for subscribers.
  • [15:04:14] <jkridner> still, some people have problems with getting their subscriptions right.
  • [15:04:30] <jkridner> I generally personally e-mail repeat offenders and help them subscribe.
  • [15:05:02] <jkridner> if it was 23 every day, then I'd cut unsubscribed people out.
  • [15:05:07] <jkridner> usually it is 2-3.
  • [15:05:33] <jkridner> it isn't all that much more work than simply reading the mailing list everyday.
  • [15:05:50] <jkridner> I just get 3-4 spam e-mails a day that I filter out.
  • [15:06:34] <NishanthM> http://groups.google.com/group/beagleboard/search?group=beagleboard&q=s-video&qt_g=Search+this+group
  • [15:06:58] <NishanthM> wonder if we should need s-video as one of supported features?
  • [15:08:16] <jkridner> yes, it is clear it is a re-occuring theme, but I'd still rank it below getting ASoC!
  • [15:08:56] <NishanthM> :D
  • [15:09:01] <koen> fixing asoc you mean :)
  • [15:09:28] <koen> and I hope you aren't talking about some old TI kernel
  • [15:09:29] <jkridner|beagle> yes, fixing.
  • [15:09:34] <jkridner|beagle> never.
  • [15:09:47] <jkridner|beagle> always talking about l-o until I state otherwise.
  • [15:10:24] <jkridner|beagle> I hardly ever run the validation kernel myself anymore.
  • [15:10:50] <jkridner|beagle> kernel in angstrom is pretty good now, but ASoC bug is big.
  • [15:10:56] <jkridner|beagle> does OSS mode work?
  • [15:11:19] <jkridner|beagle> i saw that there was an Overo ASoC patch on l-o git.
  • [15:11:30] <koen> yeah, overo is upstream now
  • [15:11:44] <koen> felipe C made a beagle patch and sent that for reviewa
  • [15:11:57] <koen> but 2.6.27 is still quite broken on omap3
  • [15:12:25] * JuanG (n=Juan@nat/ti/x-ff167fc4f40cfff5) has joined #beagle
  • [15:12:34] <jkridner|beagle> commit 2fe67a.... from Jarkko @ Nokia
  • [15:12:47] * JuanG (n=Juan@nat/ti/x-ff167fc4f40cfff5) has left #beagle
  • [15:12:48] <mru> the only trouble I have with .27-rc6 is that reboot no longer works
  • [15:13:05] <mru> nor does the reset button
  • [15:13:10] <jkridner|beagle> might just be organizational though.
  • [15:13:26] <jkridner|beagle> sorry, my comment was about the ASoC patch.
  • [15:14:57] <NishanthM> koen: dumb question from me - angstrom kernels are from steve's kernel tree?
  • [15:15:13] <koen> no
  • [15:15:36] <koen> angstrom kernels use all sorts of trees :)
  • [15:15:51] <koen> the beaglekernel pulls from l-o and has patches in OE
  • [15:16:19] <NishanthM> :D do you have a git/source repo? I was thinking of patching s-video "hack patch" and providing a uImage for a "release" of demo image
  • [15:17:05] <jkridner|beagle> seems like that is a good place to stage patches that have nice function, but aren't suitable for upstream.
  • [15:17:29] <jkridner|beagle> NishanthM: Have you tried making the patch in OE and submitting a bug with the new recipe?
  • [15:17:44] <jkridner|beagle> that seems to be the process.
  • [15:18:08] <koen> or mailing me a patch
  • [15:18:18] <koen> I spend very little time checking the bugtracker
  • [15:18:21] <NishanthM> jkridner|beagle: nope :( I never started playing with OE yet.. I have nand support in u-boot v2..
  • [15:18:21] <koen> as in 'none'
  • [15:18:46] <NishanthM> so thinking of getting a fs and uImage which i can boot off it.. concentrating on the bootloader alone
  • [15:19:00] <koen> jkridner: http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/demo/beagleboard/Angstrom-Beagleboard-demo-image-glibc-ipk-2008.1-test-20080920-beagleboard.rootfs.tar.bz2
  • [15:19:21] <koen> that has firefox, epiphany and usb-wifi drivers by default now
  • [15:19:38] <NishanthM> moreover, i trust koen's images :D
  • [15:19:59] <jkridner|beagle> hmmm.... some mail filter decided that beagleTest.tgz has a virus. should I spam the list with the virus notice?
  • [15:20:23] <jkridner|beagle> koen: can I just 'opkg update; opkg upgrade' now?
  • [15:20:30] * artyomt (n=Artyom@198.78.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee) has joined #beagle
  • [15:20:30] <koen> jkridner|beagle: yes
  • [15:20:42] <jkridner|beagle> my local work is making it more and more of a pain to start over again. :)
  • [15:20:49] <koen> jkridner|beagle: that's what I have been doing for months :)
  • [15:20:52] * jkridner|beagle hugs git.
  • [15:21:30] <koen> my revC proto will arrive on monday
  • [15:21:32] * jkridner|beagle wishes I could get 'git remote' to work.
  • [15:21:46] <koen> so that means I'll have a 'spare' beagle to test kernels on
  • [15:22:33] <NishanthM> koen: any chance of alec's patch in http://groups.google.com/group/beagleboard/browse_thread/thread/dc11612c4d6533cf/78cf140584cbe070?lnk=gst&q=s-video#78cf140584cbe070 getting into angstrom kernel?
  • [15:23:03] <Crofton|work> configure: error: could not find Python headers
  • [15:23:11] <Crofton|work> in gnome-python-desktop-2.23.0-r1:
  • [15:26:20] * jrmuizel (n=jrmuizel@CPE001f5be79d0f-CM0017ee62f8b0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  • [15:27:00] * jrmuizel (n=jrmuizel@CPE001f5be79d0f-CM0017ee62f8b0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #beagle
  • [15:27:08] <koen> NishanthM: that patch is a bit ugly as it also touched core TWL4030 stuff
  • [15:27:40] <NishanthM> koen: :( okie
  • [15:27:52] * NishanthM crawls away
  • [15:28:26] * koen sees if it applies to the angstrom kernel
  • [15:32:35] <koen> Patch 0001-modifications-for-s-video.patch does not apply (enforce with -f)
  • [15:32:39] <koen> NishanthM: doesn't apply
  • [15:33:05] * NishanthM hates kernel changes..
  • [15:33:22] * koen hates drivers not being upstream
  • [15:33:31] <NishanthM> koen: touche!
  • [15:34:11] <koen> some people think that having stuff online in a git tree means it's upstream :(
  • [15:34:27] <jkridner|beagle> for as big as the community has grown, are we getting any new kernel hackers?
  • [15:34:47] <koen> jkridner|beagle: hopefully overo gets a few
  • [15:34:49] <NishanthM> koen: will dig around for where the kernel and OE patches are..
  • [15:35:36] <jkridner|beagle> seems like things like this where there is some good reference to know how the hardware needs to be setup would be fertile ground for a good kernel hacker to pick-up and make a solid patch for l-o.
  • [15:36:24] <koen> there already people working on a DSS rewrite
  • [15:37:00] <koen> so 'new' people should be encouraged to collaborate on that
  • [15:37:53] <koen> although nokia and TI have agreed to work together on that I haven't seen any news on that
  • [15:38:10] <koen> and the nokia dude isn't releasing his latest patches to mru for some reason
  • [15:38:25] <mru> yeah, that's annoying me
  • [15:38:33] * Crofton|work needs to fly 5K miles by year end to keep usair silver status
  • [15:38:35] <geist> yeah, iirc nokia had a nice redo of the display code
  • [15:38:43] <geist> which has been a complete mess coming out of TI
  • [15:38:53] * mru doesn't understand how someone can use "not much change" and "rewrite" in the same sentence
  • [15:38:58] <Crofton|work> maybe I should go to finland and kick butt :)
  • [15:38:59] <geist> we actually moved our internal version at work to the nokia flavor
  • [15:39:26] <koen> mru: for a 5 line patch ....
  • [15:39:27] <jkridner|beagle> geist: does it include the V4L code?
  • [15:39:38] <geist> think so, since we use that a lot
  • [15:39:45] * jkridner|beagle won't pretend to know what code is better.
  • [15:39:57] <mru> koen: I'm talking about 5k-line nokia dss patch
  • [15:40:05] <geist> the biggest advantage of the nokia one is it is much more abstract WRT different hardware panels
  • [15:40:27] <geist> the stock TI driver is full of terrible hard coded hacks to work with one panel or so
  • [15:40:34] <jkridner|beagle> keon: those your VLC scap's?
  • [15:40:35] <geist> you end up having to #ifdef the hell out of it to work with multiple ones
  • [15:41:27] <jkridner|beagle> is there any way to teach people to code in a more general style?
  • [15:41:35] <NishanthM> geist: i second your views on TI driver's terrible code :(
  • [15:41:58] <geist> as a general rule, hardware companies dont write great code
  • [15:42:05] <koen> jkridner|beagle: checkpatch and sparse only catch a few issues
  • [15:42:08] <jkridner|beagle> I think there are both styles of programmers in TI...
  • [15:42:21] <geist> TI code tends to be okay structure wise, but they tend to not bother abstracting things
  • [15:42:27] * kell|home (i=user@64.213.141.241) has joined #Beagle
  • [15:42:28] <geist> 'works on an SDP'
  • [15:42:36] <jkridner|beagle> ones that right general code and those that just hack-in the stuff required to make something work in one place.
  • [15:42:46] <koen> geist: you mean 'coded for SDP'
  • [15:42:52] <geist> power management, for example. basically a big pile of hard coded registers to jam to put the SDP to sleep
  • [15:42:59] <jkridner|beagle> getting something abstract without being made obtuse is an art.
  • [15:43:04] <geist> well, a generic sleep api that does not make
  • [15:43:15] <koen> geist: yeah, the cpufreq patch was horribly sdp specific
  • [15:43:15] <jkridner|beagle> it isn't something we are well structured to even detect the difference.
  • [15:43:21] <geist> well, step one is work on 2 or 3 different platforms at the same time
  • [15:43:22] <jkridner|beagle> (organizationally, that is)
  • [15:43:27] <geist> that pretty much forces you to deal with it
  • [15:43:39] * beagle3 (n=jmo@78.52.197.31) has joined #beagle
  • [15:43:42] * kell|home discovered BeagleBoard last night. you guys sure got her interest!
  • [15:43:46] <jkridner|beagle> if something works and doesn't generate bugs, it is celebrated.
  • [15:43:52] <kell|home> good morning everyone :)
  • [15:44:01] <koen> hey kell|home
  • [15:44:02] <jkridner|beagle> good morning kell.
  • [15:44:25] <geist> our other massive problem was dealing with the DSP code. the bridge driver and the userspace OMX components we basically had to rewrite
  • [15:44:33] <geist> it was a nightmare of crap
  • [15:44:51] <kell|home> I'm a mobility software developer. blackberry/windows mobile. and I am very very interested in BeagleBoard. it seems BeagleBoard runs much of the same architecture some newer smartphones come with
  • [15:44:54] <jkridner|beagle> I hope that we can learn to prepare things appropriately for upstream, but I'm wondering if anyone can make realistic recommendations on how to make our code more general.
  • [15:45:14] <kell|home> for example the phone on my desk is an OMAP850 (195mhz, older chipset)
  • [15:45:16] <geist> jkridner|beagle: suggestion #1: move omap3 out of omap2 directory
  • [15:45:21] <geist> most of our trouble has been because of that
  • [15:45:24] <koen> jkridner|beagle: have the general design reviewed early by a kernel dude
  • [15:45:50] <geist> suggestion #2: work on multiple platforms at the same time, dont just code to SDP
  • [15:45:52] <jkridner|beagle> kell|home: Beagle uses a newer/higher-performing SoC than any existing smartphones.
  • [15:46:00] <jkridner|beagle> but not for long. :)
  • [15:46:21] <koen> geist: yeah, have TI try running the same source code on beagle and evm
  • [15:46:24] <kell|home> jkridner|beagle: exactly. There is an OMAP chipset which includes much of what BeagleBoard includes, specifically for smart phones
  • [15:46:49] <geist> 3430, yeah
  • [15:46:50] <jkridner|beagle> koen: we've been doing a bit of reviews with kernel developers and expect much of that to happen on the l-o mailing list.
  • [15:46:55] <geist> it's essentially identical to 3530
  • [15:46:55] <kell|home> geist: yup
  • [15:47:26] <kell|home> I'm not exactly a hardware guru so please forgive some of my mistakes :)
  • [15:47:57] <jkridner|beagle> geist: I think TI developers would be happy to move OMAP3 out of the OMAP2 directory, but that isn't shared across the community.
  • [15:47:59] <kell|home> I've had some ambitious ideas, and in the past, embedded boards of this quality were quite expensive
  • [15:48:10] <kell|home> BeagleBoard looks to be very good and affordable at that
  • [15:48:19] <geist> jkridner|beagle: yeah, it's clear that it's too far down that road to really change it, but the amount of ifdefs makes it very nasty
  • [15:48:41] <geist> we've been splitting the source up as we hit it, but unforunately that means we're getting more and more different from the community
  • [15:49:13] <geist> of course we'll push it all out into the world when we get closer to shipping, but dont really have the cycles to try to push it as a new solution yet
  • [15:49:21] <jkridner|beagle> so, you think Tony is headed in the wrong direction in keeping everything in omap2?
  • [15:49:30] <geist> absolutely
  • [15:49:37] <kell|home> I have a question though. since you guys are talking kernels (I think?) please don't bash me for this. but I was wondering if BeagleBoard has a configuration/driver package for Windows CE 6?
  • [15:49:40] * Openfree (n=df@58.33.108.18) Quit (No route to host)
  • [15:49:49] <geist> the amount of ifdefs required to keep it working gets super nasty over time
  • [15:50:03] <geist> *especially* deep in power management, which the TI source doesn't do a very good job of anyway
  • [15:50:14] <koen> kell|home: http://beagleboard.org/project/WEBB/
  • [15:50:31] <geist> when you go and actually implement real power management, the amount of 'well the omap2 has almost the same clock as the omap3 but not exactly s i have to ifdef here' gets pretty grody
  • [15:50:53] <kell|home> koen: cool! thanks :) have you tried it? does it work well?
  • [15:50:55] <jkridner|beagle> I expect the WinCE support to take a big jump. Right now, it really not-there.
  • [15:51:03] <koen> kell|home: haven't tried it
  • [15:51:18] <koen> I only know of its existence
  • [15:51:29] <kell|home> jkridner|beagle: ok. thats great to know. our company doesn't deal with hardware/OS building at this level because we work on already made phones so this is new for me
  • [15:51:44] <jkridner|beagle> you can get on-board with that project and help, but I expect that when the EVM WinCE is made public it will help a lot with the Beagle WinCE.
  • [15:51:49] * TAK2004 (n=Administ@dslb-088-072-211-223.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #beagle
  • [15:52:10] <kell|home> reason I ask about CE6 is its the edition that comes with CellCore, which is what powers Windows Mobile GSM model driver apis
  • [15:52:14] <kell|home> whats EVM?
  • [15:52:14] <jkridner|beagle> public != open source, so don't go there.
  • [15:52:34] <jkridner|beagle> http://www.ti.com/omap35x
  • [15:52:45] <jkridner|beagle> OMAP35x EVM is TI-official EVM.
  • [15:52:50] * koen discovers http://beagleboard.org/project/Micrel_Ethernet/
  • [15:52:54] <jkridner|beagle> Beagle is a crazy side-project. :)
  • [15:53:15] <kell|home> ya, I figured that
  • [15:53:16] <kell|home> lol
  • [15:53:18] <jkridner|beagle> I'm frustrated that not all is shared on that Micrel_Ethernet page.
  • [15:53:42] <jkridner|beagle> i believe they already built a proto. not sure why the link they provided only points to the device product page. :(
  • [15:54:04] <kell|home> btw, I haven't decided the OS I want to use yet
  • [15:54:26] <kell|home> naturally since I work on windows mobile as a day job, WinCE6 appeals to me but, several years in college I did open source code on linux so
  • [15:54:34] <kell|home> that has its fun appeal as well hehe
  • [15:54:40] * Openfree (n=df@58.33.105.192) has joined #beagle
  • [15:55:46] <kell|home> do you know if there is any omap3 or ARM VM's? if I were to go linux I would like to understand what some of the challenges are for some of the libraries I am looking to use
  • [15:56:52] <jkridner|beagle> you mean like QEMU?
  • [15:57:06] <jkridner|beagle> I don't think that it really supports ARMv7a yet.
  • [15:57:22] <kell|home> but would it give me an idea the challenges of compiling libraries for an ARM based processor?
  • [15:57:29] <jkridner|beagle> no one has registered a project, but I have had multiple people tell me they were looking at it as a project.
  • [15:57:33] <pbrook> qemu does v7a, but not omap3.
  • [15:57:41] <jkridner|beagle> oh?
  • [15:58:10] <jkridner|beagle> what needs to be added to make it omap3 (leaving out the IVA and SGX)?
  • [15:58:58] <pbrook> All the omap2 bits.
  • [15:59:26] * beaglejmo (n=jmo@78.52.200.226) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  • [15:59:37] <kell|home> we as mobile developers typically heavily use blackberry/windows mobile emulators/simulators
  • [15:59:53] <pbrook> It has some omap2 bits. I don't know how complete or similar to omap3 they are. What with omap2 not having any documentation it's tricky to tell.
  • [16:00:03] <kell|home> and then test once done coding on some hardware, but usually the QA department does that
  • [16:00:11] <kell|home> they get all the fancy devices lol
  • [16:00:33] <jkridner|beagle> I know there are system simulators if you can spend $$$
  • [16:00:38] <kell|home> yeah
  • [16:00:48] <kell|home> well, this is more of a personal project :)
  • [16:00:58] <jkridner|beagle> Around Beagle, I'm thinking free stuff, like QEMU.
  • [16:01:02] * valhalla (n=valhalla@81-174-37-208.dynamic.ngi.it) has joined #beagle
  • [16:01:11] <kell|home> I'll definately take a look @ QEMU thanks so much for the tip
  • [16:01:21] * valhalla (n=valhalla@81-174-37-208.dynamic.ngi.it) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  • [16:01:31] <kell|home> I've compiled things for linux before, but not very clear on the challenges of libraries porting for ARM
  • [16:01:42] <pbrook> We were talking to someone about adding omap3 support. AFAIK that's not happened [yet] though.
  • [16:01:44] <jkridner|beagle> I don't know where the WinCE simulation stuff is done. The Spark program might have something on-the-cheap.
  • [16:02:05] <kell|home> theres one library I'm particularly concerned about
  • [16:02:08] <pbrook> kell|home: ARM linux isn't really any different to any other linux.
  • [16:02:21] <NishanthM> kell|home: on VM http://www.electronicspecifier.com/Design/Virtual-Platform-for-TIs-OMAP3-Platform.asp
  • [16:02:25] <jkridner|beagle> pbrook: let me know if there is a connection in TI I can make to help move the QEMU stuff along.
  • [16:02:25] <kell|home> WinCE emulation can be done in Visual Studio with the Device Emulator
  • [16:02:40] <NishanthM> kell|home: virtio is not free though.
  • [16:02:50] <kell|home> NishanthM: ahh cool. thanks
  • [16:03:07] <kell|home> pbrook: so, if I need to compile the Cairo drawing toolkit library, it should be fine?
  • [16:03:39] <pbrook> I don't see why not. Pretty sure Debian build it.
  • [16:04:17] <pbrook> Of course hardware acceleration is a completely different question. You're generally at the mercy of evil powervr drivers.
  • [16:04:20] <kell|home> ok. sorry I'm not much of a c/c++ person, mostly deal with java/C# for mobile devices lol please don't flame! hehe
  • [16:04:35] <pbrook> Mobile java is just plain broken.
  • [16:04:39] <kell|home> pbrook: right. I figured hw accel was going to be a very sticky situation
  • [16:04:49] <kell|home> RIM's java implementation isn't too bad but
  • [16:04:50] <jkridner|beagle> I really like 'jamvm' on Beagle.
  • [16:05:12] <kell|home> NETCF2 blows the waters out of RIM's java sdk in my opinion
  • [16:05:14] <jkridner|beagle> I've installed 'mono' for C#, but never used it.
  • [16:05:26] <kell|home> I worked on the mono project for a few years
  • [16:05:45] <jkridner|beagle> Angstrom demo -> opkg install mono
  • [16:05:51] <suihkulokki> openjdk with cacao jvm is quite fast and very complete
  • [16:05:56] <kell|home> if your not bleeding edge in .NET technologies, its very good
  • [16:06:23] <kell|home> mono currently is basically .NET 2.x compatible, with some 3.x compiler spice thrown in
  • [16:06:25] <kell|home> like linq, etc
  • [16:06:32] <jkridner|beagle> suihkulokki: what distro has openjdk for ARM in it now?
  • [16:06:41] <kell|home> but naturally their behind on library implementations
  • [16:07:10] <suihkulokki> jkridner|beagle: debian lenny
  • [16:07:11] <jkridner|beagle> I've just been using the classpath stuff. I couldn't get Helma to use cacao, so I've stuck with jamvm.
  • [16:07:32] <kell|home> but, generally windows mobile apps are done in NETCF, mono on beagle however, in linux is quite appealing because
  • [16:07:40] <kell|home> it exposes the full framework, not the CF
  • [16:08:18] <kell|home> for example, want to host an asp.net embedded app? go for it
  • [16:08:23] <kell|home> can't do that on NETCF
  • [16:09:28] <kell|home> I saw a video on youtube with a guy talking about beagle, being a 2watt device, is that true?
  • [16:10:00] <jkridner|beagle> it is true it is only 2W.
  • [16:10:03] <koen> 2 watt when running at full blast :)
  • [16:10:12] <jkridner|beagle> USB only provides 2.5W.
  • [16:10:30] <kell|home> I'm just trying to get a sense of where that kind of ranks versus smart phones
  • [16:10:39] <jkridner|beagle> (actually, a small bit less than 2.5W is the maximum you can count on via USB)
  • [16:10:47] <kell|home> I'm not sure how much watts this OMAP850 based windows mobile device consumes
  • [16:11:01] <mru> how much power can the beagle ehci port provide?
  • [16:11:35] <jkridner|beagle> you'd have to use an alternate power source than the USB, but then it can go to 500mA.
  • [16:11:49] <kell|home> yeah, that makes more sense
  • [16:11:49] <jkridner|beagle> when powered via USB, it is limited to a bit less than 100mA.
  • [16:12:05] <kell|home> if you have a battery, feed the power from there I would think
  • [16:12:13] <jkridner|beagle> the OTG can only provide 100mA out.
  • [16:12:24] <jkridner|beagle> I believe that is covered in the BBSRM_B5.pdf.
  • [16:12:53] <jkridner|beagle> I think the question was about the power regulators on the Beagle board and how much regulated power they can output.
  • [16:13:00] <kell|home> I sooo wish the beagleboard was a rectangle not a square though lol
  • [16:13:10] <jkridner|beagle> overo is rectangular.
  • [16:13:21] <mru> a square is a special case of rectangle
  • [16:13:25] <jkridner|beagle> :)
  • [16:13:27] <kell|home> haha
  • [16:13:36] <kell|home> well, I am thinking for a phone device
  • [16:13:38] <mru> if you want it more oblong, just glue a bit of cardboard to one side
  • [16:13:39] <jkridner|beagle> actually, Beagle isn't square even.
  • [16:13:47] <kell|home> square becomes difficult to form factor a phone for many ways
  • [16:13:49] <koen> I dont think the beagle is rectangular either
  • [16:13:49] <jkridner|beagle> it is about .1" off.
  • [16:14:00] <koen> I noticed that when trying to put it in the casing
  • [16:14:14] <jkridner|beagle> beagle is close to rectangular, however. :)
  • [16:14:15] <kell|home> whats overo? another beagle project?
  • [16:14:20] * jkridner|beagle thinks keon meant square.
  • [16:14:41] <jkridner|beagle> another omap3 project.
  • [16:14:46] <jkridner|beagle> try google.
  • [16:14:48] <kell|home> ah. but not by you guys?
  • [16:15:05] <jkridner|beagle> add gumstix
  • [16:15:10] <kell|home> k thanks!
  • [16:15:39] <kell|home> beagleboard 2, skinnier, longer please ;)
  • [16:15:46] <jkridner|beagle> it is not out yet, but all of us know about it thanks to the linux kernel summit
  • [16:15:57] <kell|home> ah
  • [16:16:01] <kell|home> coolies
  • [16:16:26] <jkridner|beagle> I think it depends on the price if it would be Beagle Board 2. :) Also, Beagle is giving away layout/design materials and Gumstix is not.
  • [16:16:50] <jkridner|beagle> of course, I'd probably rather have an overo if it was available.
  • [16:17:14] <jkridner|beagle> Google helped me find http://www.gumstix.net/Overo
  • [16:17:22] <kell|home> hehe, I'm just being selfish, for this project the form factor doesn't quite fit I don't think
  • [16:17:49] <koen> jkridner|beagle: gumstix should be putting the schematicts up soon, they have then for other boards
  • [16:18:09] <jkridner|beagle> yes, schematics, but not layout.
  • [16:18:13] <kell|home> I find also, BeagleBoard has more on its board than GumStix, and its cheaper
  • [16:18:26] <jkridner|beagle> I don't think hobbyists would be able to do anything with the layout anyway.
  • [16:18:32] <kell|home> like you guys have the memory stick port
  • [16:18:58] <jkridner|beagle> not with Overo. Gumstix Overo matches Beagle features and adds WiFi/BT.
  • [16:19:18] <kell|home> but theres no connectors, etc on that thing
  • [16:19:22] <kell|home> Beagle has it already there
  • [16:19:35] <jkridner|beagle> click on Read more...
  • [16:19:43] <artyomt> could we expect more open source project for TI DSP, given beaglebard ?
  • [16:20:02] <jkridner|beagle> hey, I don't want to discourage people from buying Beagle Boards...
  • [16:20:16] <jkridner|beagle> they are available today and they are pretty low price.
  • [16:20:28] <jkridner|beagle> artyomt: yes.
  • [16:20:30] <kell|home> great price in my opinion
  • [16:20:34] <Crofton|work> sakoman, is overo pricing available yet
  • [16:20:44] <koen> "We're into the third day on this one driver. If every OMAP driver takes
  • [16:20:45] <koen> this long, we're still going to be struggling with this beyond Christmas"
  • [16:20:52] <koen> RMK is on a roll
  • [16:21:12] * jkridner|beagle laughs, then cries.
  • [16:21:19] <kell|home> actually, I could really see perhaps having both boards because
  • [16:21:23] <artyomt> or, does TI opens up Codec Server and Codec Engine ?
  • [16:21:28] <koen> jkridner|beagle: that was about the watchdog driver
  • [16:21:42] <kell|home> if your making a blackberry style device, beagle fits
  • [16:21:50] <kell|home> a candy bar form factor, overo perhaps
  • [16:21:58] <kell|home> a developer kit, beagle fits as well
  • [16:22:15] <kell|home> gumstix typically need alot of daughter boards
  • [16:22:27] <jkridner|beagle> Codec Engine will eventually be open sourced (or I'll get fired trying to pry it from our hands) by sometime, could be next year.
  • [16:22:41] <jkridner|beagle> Link is open source in the kernel space now.
  • [16:22:52] <kell|home> is overo anytime soon?
  • [16:22:56] <jkridner|beagle> Link will be open source in the user space in a month or two.
  • [16:23:46] * jkridner|beagle thinks Beagle is more about software development than plugging in as a sub-system.
  • [16:23:57] * jkridner|beagle also thinks that the design materials will help those making their own boards.
  • [16:24:12] <koen> Isn't beagle about getting people hooked on omap3?
  • [16:24:20] <kell|home> yeah. well as a personal project, having a usable form factor helps as well
  • [16:24:40] <kell|home> because prototype boards can be, if I recall like 50k cost for a one off
  • [16:24:41] <kell|home> lol
  • [16:25:09] <jkridner|beagle> koen: yeah, by letting them get some software going.
  • [16:25:16] <Crofton|work> daughterboartds for overo are not "hard" to makes
  • [16:25:28] <Crofton|work> all the hard parts are on the overo
  • [16:25:34] <kell|home> Crofton|work: no. but I guess my point was, Beagle comes with many connectors already on it stock
  • [16:25:35] <jkridner|beagle> at least I think that is what hooks people.
  • [16:25:54] <kell|home> jkridner|work: I agree
  • [16:26:04] * dirk2 (n=dirk@F335d.f.strato-dslnet.de) has joined #beagle
  • [16:26:19] <jkridner|beagle> beagle is all about the OMAP without putting a lot of other hardware on the board.
  • [16:26:22] <jkridner|beagle> hi dirk2.
  • [16:26:29] * felipec (n=felipec@echelon.ext.c-base.org) has joined #beagle
  • [16:26:31] <dirk2> hi all
  • [16:26:39] <kell|home> most smart phone developers, never get access to the native apis, android has its jdk like api, RIM has its jdk, windows mobile has native, but most apps are NETCF
  • [16:26:51] <jkridner|beagle> everytime I see you show up, dirk2, I'm thinking there must be something I'm letting lapse that needs to be cleared up on the website.
  • [16:27:06] <kell|home> I can see beagle + mono, with adding some omap3 functionality wrapped in managed libs, being very powerful and attractive to existing mobile shops
  • [16:27:06] <dirk2> np ;)
  • [16:27:09] <artyomt> beagle is 10x cheaper barrier for embedded development than TI EVMs'
  • [16:27:37] * suihkulokki looks at the overo + daughterboard picture.
  • [16:27:50] <suihkulokki> I guess the big chip on daughterboard is dvi-out ?
  • [16:27:56] <kell|home> for example, in Windows.Mobile.* assemblies, includes a bunch of platform apis, like power notifications
  • [16:27:56] <jkridner|beagle> beagle is a bit about the wild-west--not locking people out because of fear of the need to support them.
  • [16:28:22] <jkridner|beagle> suihkulokki: compare it visually to U8 on Beagle.
  • [16:28:30] <kell|home> it would be super cool, in mono, to wrap omap3/beagle in managed libraries, like power notifications
  • [16:28:51] <kell|home> or cradle notifications, etc
  • [16:28:53] <jkridner|beagle> should mean that Overo is easy to connect to LCD panels, since TFP410 isn't in the way.
  • [16:29:21] <jkridner|beagle> sorry, I seem to be drooling a bit much over the Overo today, when I should be doing my MV Vision presentation.
  • [16:29:40] <pbrook> Hmm. USB bluetooth dongles seem to kill the current angstrom kernel.
  • [16:29:45] * dcordes_ (n=dcordes@unaffiliated/dcordes) has joined #beagle
  • [16:30:27] <kell|home> in my opinion, mono has a great opportunity on beagle to expose some super friendly apis to leverage
  • [16:30:28] <jkridner|beagle> pbrook: I have BT dongle that just worked.
  • [16:30:31] <NishanthM> dirk2: saw ur mail on u-b list :).. thinking mmu code might be considered? got a chance to look at u-boot v2 arm code layout?
  • [16:31:05] <pbrook> jkridner|beagle: It works with the kernel I downloaded earlier this week, but not with the 20/09 kernel.
  • [16:31:13] <NishanthM> dirk2: #u-boot wdenk is around mebbe faster over irc :)
  • [16:31:27] <suihkulokki> jkridner|beagle: the size is matching
  • [16:31:59] <kell|home> like, I bet you that beagle could run a silverlight application before microsoft does.. I could probably get that goign
  • [16:31:59] <kell|home> lol
  • [16:32:35] <kell|home> on embedded hardware I mean
  • [16:32:46] <jkridner|beagle> VID 0a12, PID 0001: Cambridge Silicon Radio, Ltd Bluetooth Dongle (HCI mode)
  • [16:32:58] * BThompson (n=BThompso@cpe-76-185-93-11.tx.res.rr.com) has joined #beagle
  • [16:33:17] <kell|home> omg you guys have me so hyped up about beagle and mono
  • [16:33:17] <kell|home> lol
  • [16:33:22] <dirk2> NishanthM: U-Boot v1 directory layout: Let us see if we get it applied without further file splitting/resturcturing ;)
  • [16:33:31] <jkridner|beagle> kell|home: love to see it.
  • [16:33:43] <jkridner|beagle> flickr/youtube are your friends.
  • [16:33:50] <kell|home> hehe ya
  • [16:34:06] <kell|home> does firefox run ok on beagle?
  • [16:34:07] <NishanthM> dirk2: hmmm
  • [16:34:09] <dirk2> NishanthM: Adding some additional directories will be easy, but splitting the existing code will be some more work
  • [16:34:17] <kell|home> I believe silverlight on mono requires firefox
  • [16:34:40] <NishanthM> dirk2: I agree. wdenk thinks in terms of how much of A8 code can he squeeze out for others
  • [16:34:51] <dirk2> NishanthM: Yes.
  • [16:35:05] <jkridner|beagle> kell|home: firefox3 is already there.
  • [16:35:13] <koen> sounds like bad coding
  • [16:35:20] <pbrook> jkridner|beagle: http://pastebin.com/m2e04f478
  • [16:35:22] <jkridner|beagle> Angstrom demo -> opkg install firefox
  • [16:35:33] <koen> NPAPI is a standard, if your plugin only works in firefox, you're doing something wrong
  • [16:35:36] <pbrook> Other USB devices (mouse/NIC) seem ok.
  • [16:35:46] <dirk2> NishanthM: But (a) as I know we don't have other A8s yet and (b) I'm not so familiar with OMAP3/A8 that I know what will be A8 generix and what is OMAP3 specific
  • [16:36:00] <kell|home> koen: well, I wouldn't take my words as fact, sorry
  • [16:36:06] <kell|home> I just remember them talking about firefox
  • [16:36:20] <jkridner|beagle> pbrook: whoa. what are the chances of having the same BT adapter VID/PID?
  • [16:36:39] <NishanthM> dirk2: as far as u-bootv2 (which'd be almost same for v1), the only thing i guess is generic is mmu
  • [16:36:46] <pbrook> jkridner|beagle: Pretty high, I think. AFAIK there's only about 4 different chipsets.
  • [16:36:57] <jkridner|beagle> k.
  • [16:37:33] <jkridner|beagle> I also get "is not supported", despite having been able to ping for other devices.
  • [16:37:43] <NishanthM> dirk2: probably interrupt controller specific changes could also be moved out as generic. there wont be much gain esp since folks dont want to use v7 instructions for optimization
  • [16:37:45] <jkridner|beagle> I don't get the misaligned error.
  • [16:37:57] <kell|home> btw I'm not sure if you guys are familiar with this but, does anyone know any GSM modules with voice capabilities that would fit on beagle?
  • [16:38:05] * jkridner|beagle has to remember the steps I took before to try to get a BT device paired.
  • [16:38:06] <pbrook> jkridner|beagle: I've actually tried two different dongles. Both fail in the same way.
  • [16:38:09] <NishanthM> dirk2:btw, you might have better luck catching wdenk on #u-boot on freenode irc working it out and pinging a proposal out to list.
  • [16:38:37] * jkridner|beagle can't figure how to cut-and-paste from x-terminal-emulator to pidgin.
  • [16:38:57] <dirk2> NishanthM: uboot irc: is there somewehre a log I can read before joining there?
  • [16:39:19] <kell|home> I believe on windows mobile, CellCore API is just a wan to abstract the AT etc modem commands, so as long as the GSM modem had docs, it wouldn't be difficult to write a CellCore like API
  • [16:39:20] <NishanthM> dirk2: i have not seen a bot on u-boot irc.. so am guessing no logs.. not sure though
  • [16:39:40] <kell|home> for linux on beagle, so people could implement GSM modem apis
  • [16:40:33] <kell|home> I don't find many people selling GSM modules, like I couldn't fnid many omap3 modules until I came across beagle by accident :)
  • [16:40:37] <dirk2> NishanthM: UBoot mmu & interrupt code: It was hard enough to get the patches to the list, so let us try some days to get them in as they are at the moment. Improvements can be done later, or only now if they are really necessary to get the code in.
  • [16:40:39] * kell|home is so glad she did!
  • [16:41:02] <NishanthM> dirk2: i agree
  • [16:41:22] <NishanthM> dirk2: btw, nand patches are in on u-bootv2
  • [16:41:43] <dirk2> NishanthM: was off two days, still have to read the lists and logs ;)
  • [16:41:43] <NishanthM> dirk2: i am working on nand boot now (all stages using u-boot v2)
  • [16:42:06] <dirk2> NishanthM: Great!
  • [16:42:25] * NishanthM off to grind some cofee beans :D
  • [16:42:31] <kell|home> hehe
  • [16:44:20] <koen> jkridner|beagle: middle mouse button should work for pasting
  • [16:44:33] <jkridner|beagle> Bus 002 Device 007: ID 0a12:0001 Cambridge Silicon Radio, Ltd Bluetooth Dongle (HCI mode)
  • [16:44:39] <jkridner|beagle> hmmm.... thought I'd tried that.
  • [16:44:49] * TAK2004 (n=Administ@dslb-088-072-211-223.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  • [16:45:22] <jkridner|beagle> guess I expected that only to work in x-terminal-emulator
  • [16:45:37] <jkridner|beagle> since normal copy past is SHIFT-CTRL-V
  • [16:46:20] <kell|home> btw, saw the youtube video of beagle running ubuntu
  • [16:46:32] <kell|home> was very impressed at a full linux distro's speed on beagle
  • [16:47:53] <kell|home> although he didn't do much but
  • [16:48:36] <kell|home> coming from my background and the OS's we deal with, its much different seeing a desktop OS boot on similiar chipsets
  • [16:48:40] <jkridner|beagle> i would be quite happy if others recorded a video.
  • [16:49:13] <kell|home> ya, well I think I am close to purchasing a beagle to dev on lol, I have a feeling mono is going to have good performance here
  • [16:49:38] <kell|home> I saw a gtk# example running on a nokia 770, which I think is OMAP based if i recall
  • [16:50:05] <kell|home> and it was opening windows definately quicker than NETCF does, I think mono's JIT has good start up time, or it did when I was last involved
  • [16:50:54] <jkridner|beagle> Nokia 770 is indeed an OMAP. OMAP1xxx, I believe. N800 and N810 are OMAP2420.
  • [16:51:02] <kell|home> ah coolies :)
  • [16:51:17] <kell|home> so in essence, beagle is even more powerful
  • [16:51:24] <jkridner|beagle> I believe Nokia recently announced plans for an OMAP3-based tablet.
  • [16:51:30] <kell|home> yup they did
  • [16:51:41] <jkridner|beagle> quite a bit more. faster ARM clock and superscalar.
  • [16:51:59] <kell|home> I wonder how that would translate to mono's ARM JIT
  • [16:52:09] <jkridner|beagle> still, you have to admit the tablet form-factor is a bit more functional for everyday use.
  • [16:52:19] <kell|home> agreed
  • [16:52:35] <kell|home> I'm a very passionate mobile person, very passionate about umpc's and phones
  • [16:52:47] <jkridner|beagle> mono likely needs to be optimized for ARMv7a, but even older ARM ISAs execute faster.
  • [16:53:05] <kell|home> ok, thats good to know. I don't think mono's ARM JIT is something they maintain on a regular basis
  • [16:53:39] <kell|home> however with the introduction with omap3, it might be a good idea they do because I can forsee alot more devices
  • [16:53:58] <kell|home> for awhile now I have been predicting umpc/smart phones to begin blurring the lines
  • [16:54:06] <kell|home> as far as OS goes
  • [16:54:31] <kell|home> I didn't think we were quite there yet but, seeing beagle boot ubuntu at a decent rate
  • [16:54:45] <kell|home> I don't see why in omap3's generation, we need things such as the compact framework
  • [16:54:56] <jkridner> http://www.flickr.com/photos/atmasphere/2866545786/
  • [16:55:25] <kell|home> coolies
  • [16:55:49] <kell|home> like every day, we deal with these compact edition apis etc, missing lots of things to sacrifice space, cpu cycles
  • [16:56:02] <kell|home> but seeing omap3 boot ubuntu, clearly shows theres no reason you can't run fuller libraries now
  • [16:57:13] <pbrook> The main limitation is probably ram. 128Mb is a bit tight for a ragular desktop.
  • [16:57:29] <kell|home> oh very true
  • [16:57:53] <kell|home> but for example, most mainstream phones these days
  • [16:58:02] <kell|home> don't come close to beagles power I don't think
  • [16:58:14] <kell|home> I have a HTC touch here, its an OMAP850
  • [16:58:17] <kell|home> 195mhz
  • [16:58:40] <kell|home> its not going to run a full .NET framework that well I would suspect
  • [16:58:44] * jkridner|beagle steps away to work on presentation which is due today.
  • [16:58:59] <kell|home> jkridner|beagle: sorry for taking up your time! thanks so much for the help
  • [17:00:49] <kell|home> sucky that this is in .mov format, but heres the nokia 770 running gtk# app
  • [17:00:50] <kell|home> http://www.go-mono.com/nokia/nokia-gtksharp.mov
  • [17:07:06] * sourceind (n=sourcein@121.243.182.12) has joined #beagle
  • [17:07:25] <sourceind> any one got mythtv running on beagleboard
  • [17:07:38] <sourceind> need instruction on how to set it up
  • [17:09:01] <sourceind> any one online
  • [17:09:44] * BThompson (n=BThompso@cpe-76-185-93-11.tx.res.rr.com) Quit ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com")
  • [17:14:06] * BThompson (n=BThompso@cpe-76-185-93-11.tx.res.rr.com) has joined #beagle
  • [17:14:10] <Crofton|work> http://www.vtluug.org/2008/09/20/sofware-freedom-day/
  • [17:14:21] <Crofton|work> anyone heard of funambol?
  • [17:17:14] <koen> Crofton|work: yeah, sync4j was its previous incarnation
  • [17:17:49] <koen> jkridner: I still strongly dislike maemo coupling cpu and OS release
  • [17:18:02] <koen> jkridner: "maemo 5 will be omap3 based"
  • [17:18:28] <koen> that's like saying "glibc 2.8 will be core2quad based"
  • [17:18:36] <jkridner> yeah, but didn't they eventually get the new OS to run on the older tablets?
  • [17:18:42] <koen> no
  • [17:18:53] <koen> someone does that in his spare time
  • [17:18:57] <koen> and it barely works
  • [17:19:21] <koen> but then again, nokia is probably still using softfloat
  • [17:19:34] <koen> since vfp gets in the way of thumb on omap2
  • [17:19:39] <jkridner> tough trade-off for a company. my understanding was that it got there.
  • [17:19:49] <jkridner> guess you'd want to see 2 images, but same source?
  • [17:19:54] <koen> yeah
  • [17:19:59] <koen> OE can do that easily
  • [17:20:07] <koen> just change MACHINE
  • [17:20:19] <sourceind> anyone mplayer with 1080 playback on beagleboard
  • [17:20:36] <koen> I did play big buck bunny 1080 times :)
  • [17:20:43] <jkridner> lol
  • [17:21:25] <kell|home> lol
  • [17:21:53] <sourceind> comon koen what do you mean
  • [17:22:04] <jkridner> I think 1080p would require both NEON and DSP.
  • [17:22:20] <jkridner> and very, very careful management of memory I/O.
  • [17:22:27] <Crofton|work> it means he likely really did watch big buck bunny 1080 times last week :)
  • [17:22:48] <kell|home> I think the OSD2 project is more geared towards media playback
  • [17:22:49] <koen> IBC could have been called bunny land
  • [17:22:58] <koen> osd2 can't do 1080p
  • [17:23:00] <kell|home> it has a slower processor, high clocked dsp
  • [17:23:02] <kell|home> no
  • [17:23:31] <sourceind> actually lot of peaople asking for 1080 playback
  • [17:23:41] <kell|home> yup, its a hot topic these days
  • [17:23:47] <koen> davinciHD can do 1080p
  • [17:23:59] <kell|home> plasma/lcd's are cheaper, people have HD content now
  • [17:25:23] <koen> I could by a HD tv
  • [17:25:24] <sourceind> what would be he cost for daviniHD boad
  • [17:25:35] <koen> but then I can't re-enroll uni
  • [17:25:41] <kell|home> lol
  • [17:26:08] <kell|home> I have an older 1080i DLP, still a huge difference in comparison to 480p though
  • [17:26:09] <kell|home> lol
  • [17:26:35] <kell|home> would beagle do 720p you think?
  • [17:26:44] <jkridner> beagle does 720p
  • [17:26:53] <kell|home> I guess it depends on the codec and how intense it is?
  • [17:27:06] <jkridner> beagle does 720p with FFmpeg.
  • [17:27:09] <jkridner> MPEG4
  • [17:27:13] <kell|home> neat
  • [17:27:25] <jkridner> thanks to mru
  • [17:27:26] <artyomt> arm only then ?
  • [17:27:45] <sourceind> 720p is pretty good on beagle board looking at the cost,
  • [17:27:53] <jkridner> yes. could use a bit of overhead though, so I hope mru picks up some DSP acceleration.
  • [17:27:53] <kell|home> sourceind: definately
  • [17:27:54] <felipec> artyomt: nope, also dsp
  • [17:28:05] <sourceind> which is the player for beagle board
  • [17:28:06] <jkridner> felipec: actually, ARM only.
  • [17:28:08] <artyomt> haha, I leaved my laptop in office with (135 of 951) after bitbake ffmpeg
  • [17:28:16] <felipec> with gstreamer
  • [17:28:22] <felipec> and openmax
  • [17:30:33] <felipec> but I don't know what's the high limit
  • [17:30:36] <jkridner> felipec: DSP can be used with GStreamer and OpenMAX, but we are waiting for you to reproduce it in the community. :)
  • [17:30:57] <felipec> jkridner: heh, I'm working on that
  • [17:31:00] <jkridner> and take some nice video shots of it running. :)
  • [17:31:07] <felipec> well, I'm on Maemo summit right now
  • [17:31:24] <felipec> unfortunately my demo with the Beagle didn't work as expected :(
  • [17:31:33] <artyomt> jkridner: yes, it can do, but can you point out open sourced code for mpeg4 / h264 with dsp
  • [17:31:45] <kell|home> hw accel video in beagle would be sweet in gstreamer!
  • [17:31:50] <felipec> but I will record a video and submit it
  • [17:32:20] <felipec> artyomt: there's dsp binaries released by TI
  • [17:32:37] <jkridner> artyomt: not open source today, but the hardware docs are there today.
  • [17:32:44] <artyomt> yes, I know that. davinci and omap3 with DVSDK
  • [17:32:56] <jkridner> no reason someone could not port FFmpeg or other codec libraries to the DSP.
  • [17:32:58] <felipec> artyomt: also dspbridge
  • [17:33:38] <artyomt> jkridner, thats why codec engine could be good if open sourced
  • [17:33:48] <jkridner> see capability today with TI binaries--do better tomorrow writing your own code to be open source.
  • [17:33:57] <jkridner> it'll get there, but bridge is already open source today.
  • [17:34:14] <jkridner> dsp-side code is another matter.
  • [17:34:26] <jkridner> DSP/BIOS (RTOS) is available for free download, but is not open source.
  • [17:34:34] <jkridner> Link is open source in the kernel...
  • [17:34:48] <jkridner> (starting to be a broken record and need to create a FAQ)
  • [17:35:30] <felipec> jkridner: well, you don't the sourcode of the dsp bios to create dsp nodes
  • [17:36:08] <vlad_> koen: doesn't compile -without-?
  • [17:36:09] * jkridner notes codec specs on http://www.archos.com/products/imt/archos_7/specs.html?country=global&lang=en
  • [17:36:11] <vlad_> koen: that's exciting
  • [17:36:37] <vlad_> koen: what's the error, if you still have it?
  • [17:38:21] <koen> vlad_: it error on the #error blabla JS_HAS_SWAP_AND_STORE bla
  • [17:38:35] <koen> jslock.cpp irrc
  • [17:43:32] <pbrook> Is it normal for the reset button to not work? My board seems to be getting wedged in a state where pressing the reset button doesn't reset the board and I have to power-cycle.
  • [17:44:05] <koen> pbrook: .27rc?
  • [17:44:29] <pbrook> Yes
  • [17:44:37] <koen> known problem
  • [17:44:51] <koen> .27rc is &*$&@@*& broken on omap3
  • [17:45:52] <pbrook> Ok. Seems kinda lame that the hardware reset button doesn't recover :-(
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  • [17:47:04] <koen> .27rc *is* lame
  • [17:47:14] <pbrook> I mean on the hardware side.
  • [17:47:53] <jkridner> koen: wasn't mru saying that it worked for him?
  • [17:47:54] <pbrook> I'm used to a reset button being equivalent to a cold reset.
  • [17:48:09] <jkridner> oh...
  • [17:48:17] <jkridner> sorry, missed a mention of the same bugs.
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  • [18:00:16] <Crofton|work> hmm, I just pulled two hard drives from a case I need to junk
  • [18:00:29] <Crofton|work> a 4G and a 13G hard drive
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  • [18:22:15] <dirk2> I got a private german question how to control Beagle's GPIOs from user space. I think there is something like /sys/class/gpio, similiar to /sys/class/led ?
  • [18:23:58] <Crofton|work> yes
  • [18:24:32] <Crofton|work> it isn't on in the Angstrom kernel until recently
  • [18:24:48] <Crofton|work> and then only for the recent git builds, which have other issues
  • [18:25:34] <dirk2> Where is it in source so I can enable it in my own kernel?
  • [18:26:38] <Crofton|work> http://gitweb.openembedded.net/?p=org.openembedded.dev.git;a=commitdiff;h=d5e550bed1177974470e1e0932b22e890d1802ee
  • [18:27:20] <Crofton|work> I should make the same change in the .26 kernel
  • [18:27:53] <dirk2> Thanks :)
  • [18:28:28] <Crofton|work> I've tested on gpio139 (one of the pins on the expansion connector)
  • [18:35:30] <sakoman> Crofton|work: Overo pricing is not set yet
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  • [19:30:07] <sweetlilm> Crofton: how do I fix the missing liboil problem you mentioned earlier (for schroedinger)?
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  • [19:32:53] <koen> sweetlilm: update your OE tree :)
  • [19:33:39] <sweetlilm> just a git pull on org.openembeded.dev ?
  • [19:33:53] <koen> if you are using git, yes
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  • [19:46:50] <sweetlilm> building now. thanks :)
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